RE: [Repeater-Builder] IWCE 6KHz Audio

[Paul Finch]

Skipp,

I admit, I was not there this year but last year I was and the Icom 6.25 KHz
radio sounded pretty good.  Motorola did not have that bandwidth radio last
year so could not hear it.  Icom did sound OK though.

Paul

 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:46 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] IWCE 6KHz Audio

Re: 2007 IWCE Las Vegas 

So the big thing/buzz at the IWCE Las Vegas Convention is narrow bandwidth
digital uhf radios. 

Both Motorola and Icom are trying to drive narrow bandwidth hype... 
both having working 6KHz radios demos. 

Nice idea until you pick up a pair and try to have a simple chat. 
Clean and clear audio if you like the guitar flanger, serious time delay and
dirty sock sound in your two-way radio audio. 

And you'll get to pay more for it... 

cheers,
skipp 





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[Gary Schafer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of w6nct
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 6:37 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?
> 
> <<< see embedded responses below >>>
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Schafer"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Duplexers and cavities have been tuned for many years
> > without a tracking generator or spectrum analyzer. It
> > is a little easier with a tracking generator or even a
> > spectrum analyzer and a signal generator. But you can
> > do the job with a signal generator that you can keep
> > on frequency and a receiver.
> 
> W6NCT:  This sounds encouraging.
> 
> > It helps to have some kind of signal level meter on the
> > receiver but you can also just tune for quieting by riding
> > the generator level so that the receiver is always noisy.
> > That way you can hear if the level goes up or down.
> 
> W6NCT:  I think that understand the notion of using a receiver with a
> quantifiable indicator of receiver signal strength; but I don't
> understand what you are saying in your statement "tune for quieting by
> riding the generator level so that the receiver is always noisy".
> Could you explain this a bit more?
> 

If you have a receiver without a signal strength meter on it you can just
listen to the noise with a weak signal applied to tell if the signal gets
better or worse as you tune the cavity. There is a range of signal strength
on all receivers where the receiver is partly quieted with a weak signal.
Higher signal strength makes it a little quieter and a little weaker signal
makes it noisier. By adjusting the signal strength out of the generator so
that the receiver is always partly quieted you will know that the signal is
still there and you will be able to hear the difference in noise level as
you tune. If it gets noisier as you tune the notch on the cavity you know
that it is going the right way. If the receiver gets quieter then you know
that the tuning is going the wrong way. The only catch to this is that you
have to keep readjusting the signal level of the generator to keep it in
that rather narrow range of partially quieted on the receiver. This means
constant adjustment of the generator output. As you tune the notch you will
need more and more signal out of the generator. You will then hit a point in
the tuning where the signal will go the other way. You have then found the
peak of the notch.

> >
> > Using a sweep generator works fine for tuning pass band
> > cavities or even the pass band part of a pass/notch type
> > duplexer but you can't tune the notches with a sweep
> > generator. The reason being is that the detector is not
> > sensitive enough for the low signal levels that you need
> > to work with. A typical diode detector will only work at
> > about -20 to -30 dbm. Even if your sweep generator is able
> > to put out +20 dbm that only lets you look down -40 to
> > -50 db and the duplexer notch is going to be (hopefully)
> > in excess of -70 db. You will never find the peak of the
> > notch.
> >
> > So just a signal generator preferably a synthesized unit
> > so you know what frequency it is on. You could use a tunable
> > generator and a frequency counter but lots of generators
> > tend to shift frequency slightly when you crank up the output
> > level (high enough for the counter to see) and you will be
> > working with the signal attenuated down to -80 to -100 dbm
> > most of the time while tuning the duplexer. You can not afford
> > to have the signal shift around or drift while you are trying
> > to tune things as it doesn't take much of a frequency shift
> > to mess up your tuning.
> 
> W6NCT:  Can I use the sweep generator to tune the band-pass; then just
> the generator in the IFR-1100 to generate the driving signal into the
> cavities to tune the notch?  The IFR is synthesized and I'm guesing
> that it might be able to put out more than the sweep generator without
> becoming unstable.
> 

Yes that should work fine. You will need an accurate frequency marker to
show you where you are on the sweep frequency.

I can't remember if the IFR-1100 has a duplex mode on it or not. If it does
you may be able to use it in the duplex mode but set the offset to zero so
it generates and receives on the same frequency. That will give you a
generator and a receiver with a signal strength meter all in one! Some
monitors you could do that with and it is great to tune duplexers and
cavities when it doesn't have a tracking generator.


> >
> > With a good generator tune the pass bands at the proper
> > frequencies first.  Then tune the notches at the opposite
> > frequencies.  On the transmit cavities you would tune the
> > pass to the transmit frequency and then tune their notches
> > to the receive frequency (etc.).  Then tune the pass tuning
> > at the proper frequency again now that

[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Micor's for Trade

[kb5vjy]

If anyone emailed me my service has been down... 

Both of these have not been modified in any way...

73 Joe

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kb5vjy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> 
>I have 2 VHF micor's mobiles for trade.   Both work but I am #1 
a 
> uhf kinda guy and #2 a GE Guy also.  (I have more experience on GE 
> anyway)  I am currently running a Custom MVP on 443.800 with a RFS 
> (cellwave) Duplexer (little 50 watt jobbie).  I would like to 
trade 
> these micors for Mastr II UHFs (mobile or rack).  I do have the 
> one control head but the wiring isn't in the best of shape.  The 
> radio's are in good shape however.  We are building a network of 
UHF 
> repeaters here in the North Louisiana/South Arkansas area so I 
will 
> need about everything. 
> 
>I already have tower locations. One of them is 2000' in North 
> Central Louisiana with a platform on 1350' and the other tower is 
> 2000' in South Arkansas with a platform on 1850' (it's good to be 
> the chief engineer of two television stations).  These towers are 
> about 90 miles north/south apart.  I have a 180'  tower in the 
> middle that will be a local access point in Monroe La and a 300' 
> tower in El Dorado Arkansas. The linking will come WAY down the 
line.
> 
> My starting point is the two big towers... I need ground up on 
> radios, duplexers, and controllers. Soo... These VHF Micor's are 
on 
> the block to start.
> 
> Here are the Motorola Numbers -- T73RTN3400B (both are the same ) 
> Xtal for TX 153.560 and RX 153.560 also.. PL 131.8 and TPO of 
> 110watts.
> 
> You can reply here or my email jholland at nbc10news dot net
> 
> 
> 73 de Joe KB5VJY
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: RCA 500 UHF Repeater

[kb5vjy]

I have a RCA 500 UHF Repeater to trade... Sorry.. Should have been 
more clear..

73 de Joe KB5VJY


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kb5vjy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Whole or Parted out... a RCA 500 Repeater... Trading for GE Mastr II 
> UHF if possable.. or controllers.. or duplexers... Anything traded 
for 
> will be used in the North Louisiana South Arkansas UHF repeater 
System.
> 
> For more information read my VHF Micor Trade Post.
> 
> reply here or via email to jholland at nbc10news dot net
> 
> 73 de Joe KB5VJY
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Controller connection to RPT-21

[scomind]

 
Hi Vern,
 
>For reference, I have a NHRC-5 controller, ComSpec TS-32 (or  TS-32P,
>if any better) CTCSS module, and an S-COM analog delay line. I  think
>that these are the right pieces; all I think that I need is how  to
>hook it all up.




A caution: Please be aware that despite the fact that the connectors are  
similar, the pinout of the NHRC controller's delay connector does not  match 
the 
pinout of the S-COM audio delay module.
 
73,
Bob  

Bob Schmid,  WA9FBO, Member
S-COM, LLC
PO Box 1546
LaPorte CO  80535-1546
970-416-6505 voice
970-419-3222  fax
www.scomcontrollers.com




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Standard RPT21 Manual

[w6nct]

Did you ever find what you needed for this; if not, maybe I can help?

<<< vern >>>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Toko Filters For Sale

[jeffk]

My last pair of filters is now on eBay, closing Thursday.  If you need 
them, see item number 250099814095.

'JK

--- In various yahoo groups, W6JK wrote:
>
> I have a supply of the TOKO 6DFB-915E-10 filters for
> MaxTrac 902 MHz conversions. I'm offering them to members of the Group
> for $20 per pair shipped, first come first served. I accept PayPal,
> USPS money orders, and personal checks. Email me to make payment
> arrangements.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 73,
> Jeff W6JK
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: RPT-21

[w6nct]

Did you find this information?  If not, and if you still need it,
maybe I can help.

<<< vern >>>

[Repeater-Builder] Uhf Receivers correction

[mike]

Gervais
   I just realized that the complete Email address didn't come through. 
It should read [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mike

[Repeater-Builder] Controller connection to RPT-21

[w6nct]

Has someone successfully connected a controller and ComSpec CTCSS
module to a Standard Radio RPT-21?  If so, could you provide me
schematic changes to reflect these connections.

I am just learning about repeaters, and have an idea how this might be
done; but I lack the confidence, and would appreciat the help of
someone who has already done it.

For reference, I have a NHRC-5 controller, ComSpec TS-32 (or TS-32P,
if any better) CTCSS module, and an S-COM analog delay line.  I think
that these are the right pieces; all I think that I need is how to
hook it all up.

Thank-you.

Vern (W6NCT)

[Repeater-Builder] 2 UHF receivers

[mzfb]

Gervais
   I have a spare Micor low VHF receiver if would contact me direct Email
[EMAIL PROTECTED] we can work out the details. This is not a converted but is  
factory receiver at low end of the VHF band. I will gladly swap the receiver 
for the UHF Receivers.
Mike

[Repeater-Builder] Re: measuring coax for duplexer

[w6nct]

<<< see responses/questions embedded below >>>

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Schafer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Cables between cavities include the length of the coupling 
> loops in the cavities. They are measured from the bottom of 
> one loop, the cable, to the bottom of the loop in the next 
> cavity. You need to figure the velocity factor of the cable 
> and the velocity factor of each loop separately as the cable 
> has a specific velocity factor and the loop will have a velocity
> factor of air.
> 
> The cables that go to the T are measured from the bottom of 
> the loop again as above to the center of the T connector.
> 
> A notch cavity will provide about 30 to 35 db of notch depth. 
> Each interconnecting cable provides an additional 10 db or so 
> of notch depth when its length is right. 

W6NCT:  Ok, I understand that they include the lengths inside the
cavities; but how can I determine how much is inside the cavity
without disassembling them?  

If I measured an unterminated (test) cable before I connected it to
the cavity, could I connect it between the MFJ analyzer and the cavity
and measure the additional electrical length added by the cavity?  If
I made the actual cables that much shorter would the system be
resonant; ot do I need to do it iteratively?  Would I need to start
off with the test cable being a specific wavelength by itself, so that
the in-cavity length (and associated velocity factor) would be more
easily determinable?   

>
> ... Don't forget that the transmit side cables are tuned 
> to the receive frequency just like the transmit notches are.

W6NCT:  Why are the cables in the Tx cavities tuned to the Rx
frequency?  This seems counter-intuitive to me.  I would expect that
the Tx cables and cavites should be resonant at the Tx frequency to
have the best performance and SWR match.  Similarly, I would expect
that the Rx cavities would be resonant at the Rx frequency for the
best RF throughput to the receiver.  What am I missing?

> 
> The cable on the transmit side to the T provides a high 
> impedance at the receive frequency because the notch in 
> the transmit cavity is a short circuit at the receive 
> frequency. That reflects a high impedance or open circuit 
> at the center of the T connector thru the quarter wave 
> length at the receive frequency.
> 
> The cable on the receive side provides a high impedance 
> at the transmit frequency at the T because the notch in 
> the receive cavity is tuned to the transmit frequency 
> and provides a short there. The quarter wave length cable
> reflects that short to a high impedance or open circuit 
> at the T to the transmit frequency. 

W6NCT:  I don't quite understand this; and it doesn't help me
understand why the Tx cavities' cable lengths should be for the Rx
frequency.  I'm still missing something, I guess.  Sorry.

> Ideally you could disconnect the receive cable at the T and 
> it should not effect the transmit power flow to the antenna.

W6NCT:  I don't understand this either; since I'd expect the
unterminated stub of the T to act like a really short antenna.  Since
it is not an odd multiple of the Tx quarter wavelength, I'd expect its
open circuit reflections to impact the Tx path's operation and SWR. 
Again, I must be missing something.

> 
> When the transmit energy gets to the T connector it sees 
> a high impedance going to the receiver and a lower impedance 
> (50 ohms) going out to the antenna line so it takes that path.
> 
> When a receive signal comes in it sees a high impedance in 
> the transmit path at the T and a low impedance (50 ohms) 
> to the receiver path.

W6NCT:  This piece makes sense to me; and it is fundamentally why the
duplexer works.  Right?  I suspect it should be giving me a hint what
I am missing above; but unfortunately it doesn't just yet.

> 
> The cables that connect to the T connector are necessary to 
> provide transmitter/receiver isolation so power flows in the 
> right direction. If they were not properly tuned there would 
> be a lot of suck out of transmit power and receive energy 
> going to the wrong path.

W6NCT:  Ok, I can see/understand this.

> 
> The same thing is done on a transmit combiner where each 
> transmitter has a pass band cavity (it could be done with 
> notch cavities instead). The cavity isolation between 
> transmitters needs to be around 10 db on each side in
> order to provide the isolation so that the power goes to 
> the antenna and not to the other transmitter. So the other
> transmitter must be 10 db down on the skirt of the opposite
> transmitters pass band skirt. You can think of these 
> cavities as switches. The same type of thing goes on at 
> the T connection of a duplexer.

W6NCT:  I can also understand this for a combiner for multiple
transmitters.

> 
> 73
> Gary  K4FMX

W6NCT:  I'm sorry if I seem a little dense on a couple of these
notions; some of the concepts seem counter-intuitive to me.  

That being said, I still ne

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[w6nct]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Schafer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>

W6NCT:  Please see response posted at 3:37.  For some reason it isn't
being nested correctly when sorting by topic.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[w6nct]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Samuel Bosshard
\(NU5D\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I can remember using a bearcat scanner on a HP608? 
> (hope that is the right model number) signal generator 
> to tune pass and reject - used a 10 db / 50 Ohm attenuator 
> between the duplexer and the test equipment to make for a 
> better match.  I have never used a network analyzer, but 
> I have used several different service monitors with tracking
> generator.  Steve NU5D
>


Can you describe this test setup and procedure a little clearer;
perhaps with a drawing?  What was the attenuator for?

Feel free to send it to me directly ([EMAIL PROTECTED]).

Thx.

Vern (W6NCT)

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[w6nct]

> Actually a network analyzer works better than a combination sweep 
> and marker generator.  Remember that when you change isolation, 
> you are also changing impedance so you need to measure swr as well. 
> 
> There are other ways.  Read Gary's excellent post carefully.
> 
> -- 
> Larry W1HJF
> rapp at lmr dot com
>

Unfortunately, I doubt that I can afford a network analyzer either;
and I curently don't know how to use one if I happened to come across
one to use.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "when you change
isolation, you are also changing impedance so you need to measure swr
as well".  I expected that the complex impedance of the cavity might
be changing as we are changing its tuning stubs; but I thought that a
resonance (with a low SWR) was essentially what we are getting when we
were adjusting the stubs in the cavity to peak the bandpass at the
desired frequency.  Am I wrong in this assumption?

Either way, how do I set this up, and where would it fit in a test
procedure?

Which post (from Gary) are you referring to; and what specifically
should I be paying special attention to?

Thx,

Vern (W6NCT)

[Repeater-Builder] IWCE 6KHz Audio

[skipp025]

Re: 2007 IWCE Las Vegas 

So the big thing/buzz at the IWCE Las Vegas Convention is narrow 
bandwidth digital uhf radios. 

Both Motorola and Icom are trying to drive narrow bandwidth hype... 
both having working 6KHz radios demos. 

Nice idea until you pick up a pair and try to have a simple chat. 
Clean and clear audio if you like the guitar flanger, serious time 
delay and dirty sock sound in your two-way radio audio. 

And you'll get to pay more for it... 

cheers, 
skipp 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

[Scott Zimmerman]

Gervais,

I have a 142-150.8 receiver for sale. It was a 162-174 range that has been 
converted with replica helical coils.

Cost is $125 US. Shipping to Canada would be about $10. 

I'm not interested in any trades though. I have more UHF Micor receivers around 
here than I know what to do with.

Scott

Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
612 Barnett Rd
Boswell, PA 15531

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 6:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade


  Gervais - Talk to Kevin W3KKC or Scott Zimmerman N3XCC - they 
  have 147mhz Micor receivers available.

  < http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/coilinstructions.html>

  Both are regular readers of this group.

  Mike WA6ILQ

  At 02:25 PM 04/02/07, you wrote:

thanks Mark 
73/s
gervais ve2ckn
 

  - Original Message - 

  From: N9WYS 

  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:09 PM

  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade


  OK, Gervais


  Looks like what I have is not what you need... Best luck on getting your

  repeater going!


  73 de Mark - N9WYS


  

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

  [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of va2dq


  Mark

  thanks for your reply,

  i received 3 response yet 

  i am looking for low split vhf receiver,in my 147 mhz zone 

  i am working on modifying and old pager unit based 

  on micor repeaater

  it received in uhf and retx in vhf on 141??? mhz

  i dont have any parts here but i have a big manual

  red is his color from motorola



  73/s gervais ve2ckn

  bic,quebec



  - Original Message - 

  From: N9WYS 

  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

  Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:51 PM

  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade


  Gervais,


  Is the receiver you're looking for low band or high band VHF? I have a low

  band VHF receiver (39 MHz) that I'd gladly exchange for your UHF ones... 
I'm

  using a SpectraTAC system with remote UHF receivers, so I can always use

  receiver boards on UHF.


  73 de Mark - N9WYS


  -Original Message-

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of gervais


  hi all


  i have 2 Uhf Micor Receivers that i just dismantle from a Micor

  Repeater,


  there were in the 414.6250 mhz


  i think the parts number is TLE8821ABR or ADR ,,,it is badly stamped on

  the board,the channel element are there


  i would trade them for 1 Vhf receiver TLD8272B


  you can find me here at the group or via packet at


  VE2CKN @VE2RXY.#EQC.QC.CAN.NOAM


  73/s


  gervais,ve2ckn 
   


--


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007 
8:49 PM

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[w6nct]

<<< see embedded responses below >>>

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Schafer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Duplexers and cavities have been tuned for many years 
> without a tracking generator or spectrum analyzer. It 
> is a little easier with a tracking generator or even a 
> spectrum analyzer and a signal generator. But you can 
> do the job with a signal generator that you can keep 
> on frequency and a receiver. 

W6NCT:  This sounds encouraging.

> It helps to have some kind of signal level meter on the 
> receiver but you can also just tune for quieting by riding 
> the generator level so that the receiver is always noisy. 
> That way you can hear if the level goes up or down.

W6NCT:  I think that understand the notion of using a receiver with a
quantifiable indicator of receiver signal strength; but I don't
understand what you are saying in your statement "tune for quieting by
riding the generator level so that the receiver is always noisy". 
Could you explain this a bit more?

> 
> Using a sweep generator works fine for tuning pass band 
> cavities or even the pass band part of a pass/notch type 
> duplexer but you can't tune the notches with a sweep 
> generator. The reason being is that the detector is not
> sensitive enough for the low signal levels that you need 
> to work with. A typical diode detector will only work at 
> about -20 to -30 dbm. Even if your sweep generator is able 
> to put out +20 dbm that only lets you look down -40 to 
> -50 db and the duplexer notch is going to be (hopefully) 
> in excess of -70 db. You will never find the peak of the 
> notch.
> 
> So just a signal generator preferably a synthesized unit 
> so you know what frequency it is on. You could use a tunable
> generator and a frequency counter but lots of generators 
> tend to shift frequency slightly when you crank up the output 
> level (high enough for the counter to see) and you will be 
> working with the signal attenuated down to -80 to -100 dbm 
> most of the time while tuning the duplexer. You can not afford 
> to have the signal shift around or drift while you are trying 
> to tune things as it doesn't take much of a frequency shift 
> to mess up your tuning.

W6NCT:  Can I use the sweep generator to tune the band-pass; then just
the generator in the IFR-1100 to generate the driving signal into the
cavities to tune the notch?  The IFR is synthesized and I'm guesing
that it might be able to put out more than the sweep generator without
becoming unstable.

> 
> With a good generator tune the pass bands at the proper 
> frequencies first.  Then tune the notches at the opposite
> frequencies.  On the transmit cavities you would tune the 
> pass to the transmit frequency and then tune their notches 
> to the receive frequency (etc.).  Then tune the pass tuning 
> at the proper frequency again now that you have everything 
> in the ball park. Then tune the notches again at the proper
> frequencies.
> 
> ALWAYS tune the notches last. Do NOT touch the pass tuning 
> again when you are done with the notch tuning. Tuning the 
> pass just slightly will throw the notch way off.

W6NCT:  Understood.  Tx cavities are to band-pass Tx freq and notch Rx
freq; similarly, Rx cavities are to band-pass Rx freq and notch Tx
freq.  Right?

> 
> Be sure and have a dummy load on the port of the duplexer 
> you are not working with and preferably 6 to 10 db pads on 
> each of the ports that you are working with or you may not 
> have the same tuning when you hook it up to your radio.

W6NCT:  This confuses me a little.  In addition to the X and Y outputs
to the oscilloscope, the Wavetek 1080 has an "RF output", "demod In",
and a "marker In".  Not having a manual to tell me the proper setup, I
was guessing that the sweep generator's "RF output" would connect to
the input port of the cavity, and that maybe I should connect the
output of the cavity to the "demod in" (leaving the marker input on
the sweep generator unconnected).  I wasn't sure if I should use some
sort of an external circuit between the cavity output and the 1080's
demod in.  Do you know?  Alternatively, I thought that maybe I should
put a T connector on the output of the cavity with one side connected
to a (50 ohm) dummy load, and the other side connected to an
RF-detector that feeds into a second channel of the oscilloscope
(leaving both the demod and marker inputs on the sweep generator
unconnected).  I tried this setup, since I didn't know what the "demod
In" expected.  Am I off-track with these possible setups?

Either way, I don't understand what the pads are for.  Please explain?

> 
> 73
> Gary  K4FMX

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

Gervais - Talk to Kevin W3KKC or Scott Zimmerman N3XCC - they
have 147mhz Micor receivers available.



Both are regular readers of this group.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 02:25 PM 04/02/07, you wrote:

thanks Mark
73/s
gervais ve2ckn

- Original Message -
From: N9WYS
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

OK, Gervais

Looks like what I have is not what you need... Best luck on getting your
repeater going!

73 de Mark – N9WYS


From: 
Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of va2dq

Mark
thanks for your reply,
i received 3 response yet
i am looking for low split vhf receiver,in my 147 mhz zone
i am working on modifying and old pager unit based
on micor repeaater
it received in uhf and retx in vhf on 141??? mhz
i dont have any parts here but i have a big manual
red is his color from motorola

73/s gervais ve2ckn
bic,quebec

- Original Message -
From: N9WYS
To: 
Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

Gervais,

Is the receiver you're looking for low band or high band VHF? I have a low
band VHF receiver (39 MHz) that I'd gladly exchange for your UHF ones... I'm
using a SpectraTAC system with remote UHF receivers, so I can always use
receiver boards on UHF.

73 de Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: 
Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
On Behalf Of gervais


hi all

i have 2 Uhf Micor Receivers that i just dismantle from a Micor
Repeater,

there were in the 414.6250 mhz

i think the parts number is TLE8821ABR or ADR ,,,it is badly stamped on
the board,the channel element are there

i would trade them for 1 Vhf receiver TLD8272B

you can find me here at the group or via packet at

VE2CKN @VE2RXY.#EQC.QC.CAN.NOAM

73/s

gervais,ve2ckn

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[w6nct]

<<< see embedded responses below >>>

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Lemmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Your informant is essentially correct.  A sweep generator is an
> instrument that generates an AF or RF signal either linearly or
> logarithmically between a start and an end frequency.  By itself,
> it is useless for tuning cavities. However, when its sweep voltage
> is coupled to an oscilloscope's horizontal input, then we have a
> tool to visually characterize a cavity.  A spectrum analyzer is
> essentially an oscilloscope with its input filter being driven
> by a sweep generator.

W6NCT:  I thought that to be the case; and I have already tried to
connect the X/Y outputs from the sweep generator to my oscilloscope. 
The scope's display does sweep; but it does nor look lik what I was
expecting.  I suspect that I don't have the rest of the test
confifured correctly.  Can you tell me how to connect the other inputs
and outputs to stimulate the cavity and see the response on the
oscilloscope?

> 
> A tracking generator is not really a separate piece of equipment,
> but is simply an output of the spectrum analyzer that can be used 
> to excite the unit under test.  The "tracking" in the name means
> that this signal generator is synchronized exactly with the sweep 
> of the spectrum analyzer.  Thus, the display on the analyzer is a
> graphic representation of the frequency response of the unit under
> test.

W6NCT:  I would have expected that the Sweep Generator, when combined
with a connected oscilloscope would essentially result in the same
functionality as a tracking generator; since the Sweep generator seems
to both drive the DUT and the oscilloscope output display.  Am I wrong?

> 
> A spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator, or better still, 
> a vector network analyzer, are ideal for tuning duplexers, notch 
> and bandpass filters, and ferrite isolators.

W6NCT:  This is nice information; but again, you are talking about
equipment I cannot afford.  Which is why I was asking my questions to
begin with.

> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[w6nct]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kb5vjy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> 
> I use a Signal generator (Wavetek 3007 signal generator) and a 
> Spectrum Analyzer Tektronix 7613 O scope with the 7L12 Spectrum 
> Analyzer module)  Tune them up just fine here with that.

W6NCT:  I have a 564 storage scope; but I don't have the (L-series)
spectrum analyzer module for it (yet).  I also have a faster
oscilloscope; but don't see an easy way to drive it's X-input from an
external sewwp generator.  

I have a spare vertical module for the 564; which is how I am
currently driving the X-input from the Wavetek 1080 sweep generator. 
It does seem to sweep the oscilloscope beam; but I'm not sure how to
hook up the rest of the test-setup to get a pseudo-spectral display
for the output of the cavity.  Any thoughts? 

> 
> All a tracking generator is in a Spectrum Analyzer for what you are 
> using it for is a signal generator.
> 
> 73 de Joe KB5VJY
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

[va2dq]

thanks Mark 
73/s
gervais ve2ckn

  - Original Message - 
  From: N9WYS 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:09 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade


  OK, Gervais

  Looks like what I have is not what you need... Best luck on getting your
  repeater going!

  73 de Mark - N9WYS

  
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of va2dq

  Mark
  thanks for your reply,
  i received 3 response yet 
  i am looking for low split vhf receiver,in my 147 mhz zone 
  i am working on modifying and old pager unit based 
  on micor repeaater
  it received in uhf and retx in vhf on 141??? mhz
  i dont have any parts here but i have a big manual
  red is his color from motorola
   
  73/s gervais ve2ckn
  bic,quebec
   
  - Original Message - 
  From: N9WYS 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:51 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

  Gervais,

  Is the receiver you're looking for low band or high band VHF? I have a low
  band VHF receiver (39 MHz) that I'd gladly exchange for your UHF ones... I'm
  using a SpectraTAC system with remote UHF receivers, so I can always use
  receiver boards on UHF.

  73 de Mark - N9WYS

  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of gervais

  hi all

  i have 2 Uhf Micor Receivers that i just dismantle from a Micor
  Repeater,

  there were in the 414.6250 mhz

  i think the parts number is TLE8821ABR or ADR ,,,it is badly stamped on
  the board,the channel element are there

  i would trade them for 1 Vhf receiver TLD8272B

  you can find me here at the group or via packet at

  VE2CKN @VE2RXY.#EQC.QC.CAN.NOAM

  73/s

  gervais,ve2ckn 



   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] wanted ISD1420p Voice chip

[DCFluX]

Ok John, down for 1.

To give people a heads up I have about 30 left unclaimed.

Also I should mention that when upgrading you will have to change the
configuration weight as per the manual before the chip will function
in the controller. Address 01 Bit 0 = 0

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[w6nct]

<<< responses/questions embedded below >>>

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "nj902" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You can use a sweep generator and scope for swept alignment of 
> filters and duplexers.  The manual for your sweeper should show the 
> setup & procedure.
> 
> If you don't have the manual, try BAMA or other internet sites.

W6NCT:  This sounds encouraging; unfortunately I do not have the
manuals for the (Wavetek 1080) sweep generator; nor does BAMA as near
as I can tell.  I have started making enquiries around; but was hoping
that someone might be able to tell me how to set it up in the near term.

> 
> You will need an RF detector probe or preferably a detector such as 
> the HP 423A or 423B crystal detectors.  These have a 50 ohm 
> interface to the device you are tuning and provide a rectified 
> output to drive the vertical deflection of your scope.

W6NCT:  My dad's equipment included a simple (full-wave) diode
detector (i.e., RF in, DC out); would this be ok?

> 
> The scope horizontal is driven by a ramp voltage from the sweeper.  
> Using the scope in X-Y display mode thereby provides a display of 
> device response versus frequency.

W6NCT:  I also have an oscilloscope.  If it is being driven by the
sweep generator, do you know how fast a scope it needs to be?  The one
I have with an X input is an older storage scope (20 MHz?).  Might
this be ok; or will I need a much faster one?  As I recall, my dad
used an old (5MHz?) Heathkit back when he used the sweep generator to
align the Tx cavities on the UHF-TV transmitters, so I was guessing
that a slower one might be ok.  I tried connecting my oscilloscope (X
and Y) to the sweep generator; but I can't get something to display on
the screen that looks anything like a spectral waveform.  Do you if or
know how I need to connect the other IOs of the 1080 (RF out, demod
in, and marker in)? 

> 
> Be aware that your display will be linear whereas a spectrum 
> analyzer + tracking generator display - or a network analyzer 
> display - will look like the duplexer manufacturer's spec sheet with 
> a logarithmic vertical axis.

W6NCT:  understood.

> 
> You can also tune the duplexer using the generator in the IFR along 
> with a receiver that has a receive signal level indication - even 
> your repeater's receiver and a test meter showing the limiter.

W6NCT: If I use the IFR to generate an FM signal at my Tx and Rx
frequencies, and feed it into one side of the cavities; then how do I
setup the output?

Thank-you.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] wanted ISD1420p Voice chip

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Matt,

I would like one Voice Chip please.  Please let me know if I do have one
reserved.

Thanks!!

73 john k5js

> >
> > So I will make a Repeater-Builder list and NHRC-2
> > upgrade special. A never
> > before seen offer!
> >
> > Send me a self addressed padded envelope, with some
> > anti-static foam that
> > will fit a 28 pin .6" wide dip along with the qty of
> > chips you need and I
> > will send you some. First come first serve.
> >



mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology -
http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Preamp and attenuator (follow up)

[ldgelectronics]

Gary,

Just a follow up to the preamp questions from last month.

Your advice was fantastic. We added attenuation right to the point 
where the sensitivity started dropping off and it was perfect.

By putting in the attenuator, it actually increased the receive range 
of the repeater by about 30%. We're going to do this with every site 
that we have!

Dwayne Kincaid
WD8OYG


> Hook your signal generator up to your system at the antenna port 
and measure
> receiver sensitivity with and without the preamp. Then with the 
preamp in
> circuit start adding attenuation between the preamp and the 
receiver. When
> you just start to loose sensitivity stop adding attenuation. That 
should
> give you near optimum sensitivity without excessive gain. Too much 
gain in
> the preamp overloads the receiver mixer and front end amp if it has 
one. 
> 
> For every db of gain you add in front of the receiver you reduce 
the IM
> performance of the receiver.
> 
> You only want enough preamp gain to overcome the noise figure of the
> receiver. Although the noise figure of the receiver and preamp are
> cumulative the preamp is the biggest contributor in setting system 
noise
> figure. In other words putting a hot preamp on a very hot receiver 
will give
> you a better overall noise figure than putting that same preamp on 
a poor
> receiver but the difference will not be great.
> 
> You may not be able to realize the full benefit of the preamp if 
you have
> excessive IM. You may have to add more attenuation to where it 
further
> reduces receiver sensitivity. When you get down to the point that 
the
> sensitivity is the same as it was without the preamp, then throw 
out the
> preamp. But you may be able to find a happy medium where the preamp 
does
> help some without destroying your IM performance.
> 
> If you still have excess IM problems you can add attenuation ahead 
of the
> preamp by raising the insertion loss of the loops on your band pass 
filter
> as others have suggested. By raising the insertion loss on the 
loops it does
> the same thing as adding an attenuator ahead of the preamp but with 
the
> added benefit of steeper skirts on the band pass filter.
> 
> By the way don't worry about adding adaptors between the preamp and
> receiver. After all you are looking to add attenuators anyway. But 
adaptors
> really make no measurable difference in attenuation at vhf or uhf. 
They may
> give a slight impedance mismatch but you probably don't have 
anything that
> will measure the small amount of loss from them.
> 
> 73
> Gary  K4FMX
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] wanted ISD1420p Voice chip

[DCFluX]

Don and Paul I got you both in there for 2 each.

On 4/2/07, Paul Guello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can use 2 of these too.  Paul Guello, kb9wlc
>
> --- DCFluX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Looks like Digikey turned them into a special order
> > item.I just checked my
> > lab and for some reason I have 4 tubes of the
> > ISD1420P.  I have about 60 of
> > them with a date code of 0009.
> >
> > So I will make a Repeater-Builder list and NHRC-2
> > upgrade special. A never
> > before seen offer!
> >
> > Send me a self addressed padded envelope, with some
> > anti-static foam that
> > will fit a 28 pin .6" wide dip along with the qty of
> > chips you need and I
> > will send you some. First come first serve.
> >
> > Matt Krick
> > 3370 N. Mobile Rd.
> > Golden Valley, AZ 86413
> >
> > Please make your reservations on list as I do not
> > want anyone to be eaten by
> > the spam filter.
> >
> >
> >
> > I also have some ISD2575Ps, but I don't know of
> > anything that uses them off
> > the top of my head.
> >
> > I need to get some more PICs from NHRC my self. I
> > have 2 controlers that are
> > just sitting here.
> >
>
>
>
>
> 
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Repeater-Builder] Looking for Astro Saber II Belt Clip .

[kb3fsr]

Howdy all , 
  I'm looking for a Belt Clip for a Motorola Astro Saber 
II Portable. 
Let me know what you have .
 
Thanks
 
Steve. KB3FSR.



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] wanted ISD1420p Voice chip

[Paul Guello]

I can use 2 of these too.  Paul Guello, kb9wlc

--- DCFluX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Looks like Digikey turned them into a special order
> item.I just checked my
> lab and for some reason I have 4 tubes of the
> ISD1420P.  I have about 60 of
> them with a date code of 0009.
> 
> So I will make a Repeater-Builder list and NHRC-2
> upgrade special. A never
> before seen offer!
> 
> Send me a self addressed padded envelope, with some
> anti-static foam that
> will fit a 28 pin .6" wide dip along with the qty of
> chips you need and I
> will send you some. First come first serve.
> 
> Matt Krick
> 3370 N. Mobile Rd.
> Golden Valley, AZ 86413
> 
> Please make your reservations on list as I do not
> want anyone to be eaten by
> the spam filter.
> 
> 
> 
> I also have some ISD2575Ps, but I don't know of
> anything that uses them off
> the top of my head.
> 
> I need to get some more PICs from NHRC my self. I
> have 2 controlers that are
> just sitting here.
> 



 

It's here! Your new message!  
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[Steven Samuel Bosshard \(NU5D\)]

I can remember using a bearcat scanner on a HP608? (hope that is the right 
model number) signal generator to tune pass and reject - used a 10 db / 50 Ohm 
attenuator between the duplexer and the test equipment to make for a better 
match.  I have never used a network analyzer, but I have used several different 
service monitors with tracking generator.  Steve NU5D

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tuning duplexers with sweep generator?

[Larry Rappaport]

w6nct wrote:
>
>
> I was recently told (by another ham) that I could ONLY tune up my 70cm
> duplexer cavities using something called a "tracking generator".
> Unfortunately I do not have one; and judging the prices I have seem
> for things with that name on the web, I doubt that I can easily budget
> to purchase one.
>
> For some reason, I thought that my father used to tune up resonant
> cavities using a sweep generator, oscilloscope, and a frequency
> counter; but I don't recall the exact setup he used.
>
> I inherited his Wavetek (Model #1080, 1GHz) sweep generator,
> oscilloscope, and frequency counter. I also have access to an
> IFR-1100 service monitor, if I need it (i.e., can be borrowed from a
> friend).
>
> Can I tune up my 70cm duplexer cavities using the equipment I have?
>
> If so, could someone please indicate the test setup and procedure.
>
> Thank-you.
>


>
>  

Actually a network analyzer works better than a combination sweep and 
marker generator.  Remember that when you change isolation, you are also 
changing impedance so you need to measure swr as well. 

There are other ways.  Read Gary's excellent post carefully.

-- 
Larry W1HJF
rapp at lmr dot com

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

[N9WYS]

OK, Gervais

Looks like what I have is not what you need...  Best luck on getting your
repeater going!

73 de Mark – N9WYS


From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of va2dq

Mark
thanks for your reply,
i received 3 response yet 
i am looking for low split vhf receiver,in my 147 mhz zone 
i am working on modifying and old pager unit based 
on micor repeaater
it received in uhf and retx in vhf on 141??? mhz
i dont have any parts here but i have a big manual
red is his color from motorola
 
73/s gervais ve2ckn
bic,quebec
 
- Original Message - 
From: N9WYS 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 2 Micor Uhf receivers to trade

Gervais,

Is the receiver you're looking for low band or high band VHF? I have a low
band VHF receiver (39 MHz) that I'd gladly exchange for your UHF ones... I'm
using a SpectraTAC system with remote UHF receivers, so I can always use
receiver boards on UHF.

73 de Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of gervais

hi all

i have 2 Uhf Micor Receivers that i just dismantle from a Micor
Repeater,

there were in the 414.6250 mhz

i think the parts number is TLE8821ABR or ADR ,,,it is badly stamped on
the board,the channel element are there

i would trade them for 1 Vhf receiver TLD8272B

you can find me here at the group or via packet at

VE2CKN @VE2RXY.#EQC.QC.CAN.NOAM

73/s

gervais,ve2ckn 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: need app note MC145158 for R100

[Barry Buelow]

The data sheet I have lists only AN980.
980 may cross ref others..

Barry






--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Burt Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Do you by chance have an AN- number?  in the 1980s I used to 
> subscribe to all the Motorola documents and still have most of them
in a 
> box.
> 
> Burt  VE2BMQ>>>
> 
> Barry Buelow wrote:
> > Hello
> > 
> > Does anyone have a copy of the Motorola App NOtes for PLL from about
> > 15+ years ago?  I'm looking for some info on the R100 PLL.  I have a
> > data sheet but the App Notes had much more useful info.
> > 
> > I'd take a scanned pdf, paper, whatever..
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Barry  w0iy
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Yaesu Repeater

[Deepan N]

excellent repeater. rugged use. working for the past 15years with out any 
problem in India.
All most 8 Ftr-2410 working in India.
regards
deepan.

_
Palate teasers: Straight from Master Chef Sanjeev Kapoor 
http://content.msn.co.in/Lifestyle/Moreonlifestyle/LifestylePT_101106_1530.htm

[Repeater-Builder] Re: wanted ISD1420p Voice chip

[Don Wankel]

I have 2 partial kits, 2 chips please.  Thanks in advance.  The
envelope will be on the way as soon as I can find a piece of esd foam.
Don KG4TQE

[Repeater-Builder] Cool or not cool?

[Ken Arck]

I forgetwhat's the policy of discussing legal/ethical issues (as 
they relate to repeater operation of course) on the list?

Ken
(had an interesting situation arise over the weekend that folks may 
enjoy hearing about)
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Coming soon - the most advanced repeater controller EVER.
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net

Re: [Repeater-Builder] BPL Obsoleted by More Powerful and Efficient Technology

[Dick]

All the technical details are available at www.wefooledu.fun :)

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: Ronny Julian
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 01 April, 2007 13:29
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] BPL Obsoleted by More Powerful and Efficient 
Technology


Shame they didn't take out an April ad in QST. "Google competes with
BPL"!!

That is one on the best 4/1 jokes I've ever heard!

Don Kupferschmidt wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> Although not entirely related to repeater building, take a look at this:
>
> Introducing Google TiSP (BETA), our new FREE in-home wireless
> broadband service.
> Sign up today and we'll send you your TiSP self-installation kit,
> which includes setup guide,
> fiber-optic cable, spindle, wireless router and installation CD.
>
> They claim the following -
>
>
> *TiSP in-home wireless broadband is:*
>
> *
>
> Free, fast and highly reliable
>
> *
>
> Easy to install -- takes just minutes
>
> *
>
> Vacuum-sealed to prevent water damage
>
> http://www.google.com/tisp/ 
>
> But being April 1st, I wonder if this "Cinderella offer" is going to
> turn into a "Pumpkin" at  GMT.
>
> Don, KD9PT
>
> PS: Credit is given to the PWF group, in which this story originated
> from (and I am a member of).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


 

[Repeater-Builder] Searching for service manual for Standard Communications RPT-1 VHF repeater

[Erik Finskas]

I'm looking for a paper or pdf manual for Standard Communications RPT-1
VHF repeater.

If you can assist, please contact off-list.

73
Erik OH2LAK
[EMAIL PROTECTED]