[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna suggestion question?

[Craig]

If you do go with a side mount fiberglass antenna, be sure to get an 
outrigger arm for the top.  It will prevent the top from blowing in 
the breeze.  I have seen more problems in fiberglass antennas where 
they were only clamped at the base.  The internal connections which 
are soldered don't hold up to the constant flexing.

I uploaded Outrigger.pdf to the files section so you can see what's 
available.

Craig Kielhofer
KEC Communications.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "T.J."  wrote:
>
> ...but will not allow dipole antennas only fiberglass collinear 
antennas.  ...> 
> Thanks
>

[Repeater-Builder] New file uploaded to Repeater-Builder

[Repeater-Builder]

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Repeater-Builder 
group.

  File: /outrigger.pdf 
  Uploaded by : craig92  
  Description : Andrew instruction sheet on outriggers. 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/files/outrigger.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

craig92 
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need some advice- Tone and ID for repeater

[Ken Arck]

At 10:10 PM 2/14/2009, Peter Summerhawk wrote:

>Morning Crew,
>I need some suggestions on what tone frequency people are using for 
>the ID on their repeater as well as speed for the ID. I am using a 
>repeater controller that I can adjust the frequency and speed of the 
>system. I want to use something that can be heard but don't want it 
>to be to high so they users go deaf or have the speed to fast as its 
>all a blur in the id.
>

<---I use dial tone freqs (440 & 660). It does require that your 
controller allows for dual tone CW IDs of course. And 20 WPM (which 
is the legal limit in the US)

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need some advice- Tone and ID for repeater

[lenaw12]

Around 700-750 Hz is a comfortable setting, (I'm not sure what
frequency will make you deaf...)

If deafness is really a consideration, turn down the deviation on the
ID to 50% of your voice level and everyone should survive.

As for speed...can your users copy CW? If not...the maximum speed
allowed by the FCC (I think around 20 wpm) gets it out of the way
faster...

LW


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Peter Summerhawk
 wrote:
>
> Morning Crew,
> I need some suggestions on what tone frequency people are using for
the ID
> on their repeater as well as speed for the ID. I am using a repeater
> controller that I can adjust the frequency and speed of the system.
I want
> to use something that can be heard but don't want it to be to high
so they
> users go deaf or have the speed to fast as its all a blur in the id.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Peter Summerhawk-N0WRE
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Repeater

[Joe Burkleo]

Ralph,
I use Scott's N3XCC method on our Micor repeaters. It uses the station
control module and squelch gate card.

http://www.repeater-builder.com/micor/micorstationconnectionnotes.html

I use the factory PL decoder and encoder, perform the modifications
for and squelch, which involves cutting jumpers on the audio/squelch
board and making the changes on the receiver interconnect board.

If you modify the audio squelch board for "and" squelch and do not do
the mods on the interconnect board, you will not have audio in PL mode.

I have used this method with Link-com, Arcom and Zetron controllers.

Feel free to email me off list if you are still having problems.

Good Luck.

Joe - WA7JAW




--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph S. Turk" 
wrote:
>
> Hi all. 
> 
> I am working on a Micor repeater (not Mobile) and I am having
problems with the 
> 
> Squelch and Audio circuits. Actual original usage of the Micor
repeater is unknown. 
> 
> The repeater will have an external controller. 
> 
> The only module used is the Station Control modified per
repeater-builder. 
> 
> Transmitter is all ok. 
> 
> I can not get the Squelch to work with a correctly adjusted/aligned
receiver. I also can not get 
> the audio to the speaker with any volume. Very low level. I have
both an unmodified 
> audio/Squelch board and a modified (per repeater builder). 
> 
> I suspect I need some jumpers on the Unified Chassis interconnect
(mother board) in the RX area but for the life of me, I can't seem to
figure it out. 
> I might also have to make some changes on the receiver interconnect
board 
> 
> The Unified Chassis interconnect board (mother board) is a TLN 5944A. 
> The receiver interconnect board is a TLN 5646A1 
> 
> I believe I have the correct schematics for all modules. 
> Any Ideas 
> 
> Thanks 
> Ralph, W7HSG
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need some advice- Tone and ID for repeater

[MCH]

I've always liked 660 Hz - it goes with my 330/495/660 Hz CT.

Joe M.

Peter Summerhawk wrote:
> Morning Crew,
> I need some suggestions on what tone frequency people are using for the 
> ID on their repeater as well as speed for the ID. I am using a repeater 
> controller that I can adjust the frequency and speed of the system. I 
> want to use something that can be heard but don't want it to be to high 
> so they users go deaf or have the speed to fast as its all a blur in the id.
>  
> Suggestions?
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Peter Summerhawk-N0WRE
> 
> 
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Need some advice- Tone and ID for repeater

[Peter Summerhawk]

Morning Crew,
I need some suggestions on what tone frequency people are using for the ID
on their repeater as well as speed for the ID. I am using a repeater
controller that I can adjust the frequency and speed of the system. I want
to use something that can be heard but don't want it to be to high so they
users go deaf or have the speed to fast as its all a blur in the id.

Suggestions?

Thanks

Peter Summerhawk-N0WRE

RE: [Repeater-Builder] FT-8500 Adjustments

[Mike Mullarkey]

Hi Bob,

 

He has the standard mic for the radio and not the big mic as some call the
potato mic. Is there a special sequence with the standard microphone.

 

Mike

 

Colorado Telecom, L.L.C

Mike Mullarkey

6886 Sage Ave

Firestone, Co 80504

303-954-9695 Home

303-954-9693 Home Office & Fax

303-718-8052 Cellular

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n...@no6b.com
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:10 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] FT-8500 Adjustments

 

At 2/14/2009 16:27, you wrote:
>Hi to all,
>
>I have a local ham here in Colorado and he has a Yaseu FT-8500 and his 
>audio is off the charts. Does anybody know how to adjust these radio. Is 
>via the front panel or on the board in the radio. I also want to bring the 
>Transmitter on freq both on the VHF and UHF while im into it.
>
>Mike K7PFJ

(assuming you have the FS-10 "Mr. Potato Head" mic):

-Turn radio off.

-While holding down the LOW, REV & vol. control of the band you want to 
adjust on the FS-10, press the PWR button. This puts the radio into 
service mode & you'll see "STANDBY" on the display.

-Press the joystick to the right 5 times to get to the MODULATION menu
entry.

-Press the joystick up or down to raise/lower the deviation of the band 
selected in the first step via the volume control held down. You can key 
the radio TX at this point so you can measure the deviation.

-Once the deviation is set, press "HOME" to save the setting, then "LOW" to 
exit the service menu.

BTW, the "REFERENCE" menu setting sets the frequency.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

[pemeott]

We have a similar problem in the Twin Cities in Minnesota where we have two AM 
broadcasting 

stations that are 600 Khz apart. One is a 50,000 watt station on 1500 Khz and 
the other is a 

10,000 watt station on 900 Khz.  They are located about 5 miles apart. qs both 
stations are 

on-the-air 24 hours per day the 600 Khz signal is constantly on. 



Ever tried to build a filter for 1500 or 900 Khz to notch them out ?  



We have found (and located) this 600 Khz carrier on the high voltage power 
lines (500,000 V) 

that run close (within 1/2 mile) to the 50,000 watt station.  You can hear the 
600 Khz signal (with 

audio from both stations) from the stations on a AM car radio within 10 miles 
all along the 

power lines.. 



We have had to go to "split site" 2 meter repeaters within 15 mile radius of 
the two stations. 



Paul   K0LAV  


- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Oliver"  
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:34:55 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters. 

There used to be a couple of high power paging transmitters in town 600 KHz 
apart in the 152 MHz range that used to raise hell with several ham 
repeaters, glad they are gone now. 

tom 


> [Original Message] 
> From: John Snitcher  
> To:  
> Date: 2/14/2009 8:05:38 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters. 
> 
> I hate to tell you, a definite way to eliminate 
> the problem, is a frequency change so that the 
> output of the two transmitters are no longer not 600 khz apart. 
> It is possible that the mixing is occurring in 
> one of the PA's. If the problem is a mix in the 
> TX, an isolator on the offending TX should solve 
> it. I like the Sinclair isolators. 
> 
> 2A-B  Most likely a 3rd order intermod product  146.76 X 2 = 293.52 
> 
> 293.52 - 147.36 = 146.16  Bad place for it to end 
> up on. I have run into this problem several times. 
> 
> 
> Telco : I think you meant to say, the trouble 
> must be on your end, it is leaving here ok... I 
> can't use that excuse, my SXS office does not talk to the outside world 
yet... 
> 
> Good Luck 
> John 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 06:34 PM 2/14/2009, you wrote: 
> >Bare with me this is a bit long. 
> >Our repeater is on 146.76TX / 146.16RX. In the next town the repeater 
> >having the problem is on 147.36TX / 147.96RX. Both repeaters are 
> >Motorola Micors. Our repeater is a 100 watt PA running about 60watts 
> >with a single band pass cavity between TX and a 4 cavity BPBR 
> >duplexer connected to 250 feet of 7/8 hard line and a DB224 antenna. 
> >The distance between repeaters is about 18 miles line of sight with 
> >no obstructions. The other repeater is running a smaller PA driver 
> >with an output of 25 watts. I am not sure of the full power 
> >capability of this driver. This PA then drives a � KW tube type final 
> >set at about 90 watts. This is connected to a 4 cavity BPBR duplexer, 
> >200 feet of � hard line, and a DB224 antenna. 
> > 
> >The problem is when the our repeater 146.76 is in transmit and 
> >someone keys the 147.36 repeater a loop condition is set up locking 
> >on the 147.36 on until the 146.76 drops. Also audio feedback is heard 
> >on the 146.36 repeater. This is typical receiver transmitter intermod. 
> > 
> >Here is what I have done so for. I checked the 146.76 repeater and 
> >there is no signal on it on 147.96 or any other frequency other than 
> >146.76. I then drove to the 146.36 repeater location and from my car 
> >in front of the repeater building duplicated the problem by 
> >transmitting on 146.76. As we used to say in the phone business, the 
> >trouble is leaving here OK.  Next I put a calibrated receiver on the 
> >TX port of their BPBR duplexer and measured about -50DB when the 
> >146.76 repeater was on. Also I could not squelch out the .76 signal 
> >by holding my hands over the antenna of my handheld radio in the 
> >building. There is lots of.76 signal down there so I suspect 
> >transmitter mixing of the 146.76 with 147.36 in the .36 PA. But 
> >where? I disconnected the � KW PA and hooked the driver up directly 
> >to the duplexer and the mixing signal on 147.96 is worse. I then put 
> >one band pass 147.36, band reject 147. 76 cavity between the PA 
> >driver and the duplexer. To my surprise the mixing signal on 147.96 
> >is even higher! I also tried a single band pass cavity with about the 
> >same results. Having run out of cavity's I came back home. 
> > 
> >  I realize their PA driver most likely needs to be checked. If the 
> >driver PA is ok they will need 30 to 50 DB of isolation between the 
> >147.36 final and the duplexer which will be at least two cavities. I 
> >was able to duplicate this mixing with a couple of 2 meter radios, a 
> >lossy T connector and a signal generator. I took two high pass 
> >cavities out of a duplexer tuning then to pass 147.36 and reject 
> >146.76. I ended up with 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor

[Gerald Pelnar]

Locally, even with $.045/ KWH electricity, electric heat still costs more 
than gas per Btu. Heat pump cost about one third of gas per Btu.

Gerald Pelnar WDØFYF
McPherson, Ks


- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Curtis" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT Power Factor


> We are going to try a tankless water heater (electric, not gaseous).
> Heat pump was a big help this year.
> Washer and dryer are pretty good but with 4 kids, they get used quite a 
> bit.
>
> Chris
> Kb0wlf
>
>>Replacing all sorts of old appliances helps in this category...
>>
> --SNIP--
>>
>>Oh, the clothes are cleaner too.  A lot cleaner.  She was right, like she
>>usually is.  :-)
>>
>>Nate WY0X
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] FT-8500 Adjustments

[no6b]

At 2/14/2009 16:27, you wrote:
>Hi to all,
>
>I have a local ham here in Colorado and he has a Yaseu FT-8500 and his 
>audio is off the charts. Does anybody know how to adjust these radio. Is 
>via the front panel or on the board in the radio. I also want to bring the 
>Transmitter on freq both on the VHF and UHF while im into it.
>
>Mike K7PFJ

(assuming you have the FS-10 "Mr. Potato Head" mic):

-Turn radio off.

-While holding down the LOW, REV & vol. control of the band you want to 
adjust on the FS-10, press the PWR button.  This puts the radio into 
service mode & you'll see "STANDBY" on the display.

-Press the joystick to the right 5 times to get to the MODULATION menu entry.

-Press the joystick up or down to raise/lower the deviation of the band 
selected in the first step via the volume control held down.  You can key 
the radio TX at this point so you can measure the deviation.

-Once the deviation is set, press "HOME" to save the setting, then "LOW" to 
exit the service menu.

BTW, the "REFERENCE" menu setting sets the frequency.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Repeater

[Ralph S. Turk]

Hi all. 

I am working on a Micor repeater (not Mobile) and I am having problems with the 

Squelch and Audio circuits. Actual original usage of the Micor repeater is 
unknown. 

The repeater will have an external controller. 

The only module used is the Station Control modified per repeater-builder. 

Transmitter is all ok. 

I can not get the Squelch to work with a correctly adjusted/aligned receiver. I 
also can not get 
the audio to the speaker with any volume. Very low level. I have both an 
unmodified 
audio/Squelch board and a modified (per repeater builder). 

I suspect I need some jumpers on the Unified Chassis interconnect (mother 
board) in the RX area but for the life of me, I can't seem to figure it out. 
I might also have to make some changes on the receiver interconnect board 

The Unified Chassis interconnect board (mother board) is a TLN 5944A. 
The receiver interconnect board is a TLN 5646A1 

I believe I have the correct schematics for all modules. 
Any Ideas 

Thanks 
Ralph, W7HSG 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

[Thomas Oliver]

There used to be a couple of high power paging transmitters in town 600 KHz
apart in the 152 MHz range that used to raise hell with several ham
repeaters, glad they are gone now.

tom


> [Original Message]
> From: John Snitcher 
> To: 
> Date: 2/14/2009 8:05:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.
>
> I hate to tell you, a definite way to eliminate 
> the problem, is a frequency change so that the 
> output of the two transmitters are no longer not 600 khz apart.
> It is possible that the mixing is occurring in 
> one of the PA's. If the problem is a mix in the 
> TX, an isolator on the offending TX should solve 
> it. I like the Sinclair isolators.
>
> 2A-B  Most likely a 3rd order intermod product  146.76 X 2 = 293.52
>
> 293.52 - 147.36 = 146.16  Bad place for it to end 
> up on. I have run into this problem several times.
>
>
> Telco : I think you meant to say, the trouble 
> must be on your end, it is leaving here ok... I 
> can't use that excuse, my SXS office does not talk to the outside world
yet...
>
> Good Luck
> John
>
>
>
>
> At 06:34 PM 2/14/2009, you wrote:
> >Bare with me this is a bit long.
> >Our repeater is on 146.76TX / 146.16RX. In the next town the repeater
> >having the problem is on 147.36TX / 147.96RX. Both repeaters are
> >Motorola Micors. Our repeater is a 100 watt PA running about 60watts
> >with a single band pass cavity between TX and a 4 cavity BPBR
> >duplexer connected to 250 feet of 7/8 hard line and a DB224 antenna.
> >The distance between repeaters is about 18 miles line of sight with
> >no obstructions. The other repeater is running a smaller PA driver
> >with an output of 25 watts. I am not sure of the full power
> >capability of this driver. This PA then drives a ¼ KW tube type final
> >set at about 90 watts. This is connected to a 4 cavity BPBR duplexer,
> >200 feet of ½ hard line, and a DB224 antenna.
> >
> >The problem is when the our repeater 146.76 is in transmit and
> >someone keys the 147.36 repeater a loop condition is set up locking
> >on the 147.36 on until the 146.76 drops. Also audio feedback is heard
> >on the 146.36 repeater. This is typical receiver transmitter intermod.
> >
> >Here is what I have done so for. I checked the 146.76 repeater and
> >there is no signal on it on 147.96 or any other frequency other than
> >146.76. I then drove to the 146.36 repeater location and from my car
> >in front of the repeater building duplicated the problem by
> >transmitting on 146.76. As we used to say in the phone business, the
> >trouble is leaving here OK.  Next I put a calibrated receiver on the
> >TX port of their BPBR duplexer and measured about -50DB when the
> >146.76 repeater was on. Also I could not squelch out the .76 signal
> >by holding my hands over the antenna of my handheld radio in the
> >building. There is lots of.76 signal down there so I suspect
> >transmitter mixing of the 146.76 with 147.36 in the .36 PA. But
> >where? I disconnected the ¼ KW PA and hooked the driver up directly
> >to the duplexer and the mixing signal on 147.96 is worse. I then put
> >one band pass 147.36, band reject 147. 76 cavity between the PA
> >driver and the duplexer. To my surprise the mixing signal on 147.96
> >is even higher! I also tried a single band pass cavity with about the
> >same results. Having run out of cavity's I came back home.
> >
> >  I realize their PA driver most likely needs to be checked. If the
> >driver PA is ok they will need 30 to 50 DB of isolation between the
> >147.36 final and the duplexer which will be at least two cavities. I
> >was able to duplicate this mixing with a couple of 2 meter radios, a
> >lossy T connector and a signal generator. I took two high pass
> >cavities out of a duplexer tuning then to pass 147.36 and reject
> >146.76. I ended up with around 70DB of rejection and 2DB in the pass.
> >I recorded the amount of signal needed to cause the mixing. I then
> >put the cavities between the signal generator and transmitter.  To my
> >surprise the amount of signal to start mixing was about the same. The
> >cavities are the type with a T on one port and a compression
> >capacitor for the reject tuning.
> >Some questions I have for the group are:
> >1. What is the best type of cavity filter to use in this situation
> >and where should it be placed?
> >2. Has anyone else seen that, been there, done that, and what was
> >your solution?
> >Any information or ideas will be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>







Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

[Juan Tellez]

We had same problem with 146.940/340 and 146.640/040 few years ago, (
distance between 

repeaters same as yours); tried as many situations as you mentioned, we
ended in using in our repeater 

146.940 two separated antennas, one for RX and other  for TX and the
duplexer, a WP-629 used

 just as filters, this solved the problem 100%.

 

Juan Tellez, XE2SI

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Sichert
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:13 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

 

I hate to tell you, a definite way to eliminate 
the problem, is a frequency change so that the 
output of the two transmitters are no longer not 600 khz apart.
It is possible that the mixing is occurring in 
one of the PA's. If the problem is a mix in the 
TX, an isolator on the offending TX should solve 
it. I like the Sinclair isolators.

2A-B Most likely a 3rd order intermod product 146.76 X 2 = 293.52

293.52 - 147.36 = 146.16 Bad place for it to end 
up on. I have run into this problem several times.

Telco : I think you meant to say, the trouble 
must be on your end, it is leaving here ok... I 
can't use that excuse, my SXS office does not talk to the outside world
yet...

Good Luck
John

At 06:34 PM 2/14/2009, you wrote:
>Bare with me this is a bit long.
>Our repeater is on 146.76TX / 146.16RX. In the next town the repeater
>having the problem is on 147.36TX / 147.96RX. Both repeaters are
>Motorola Micors. Our repeater is a 100 watt PA running about 60watts
>with a single band pass cavity between TX and a 4 cavity BPBR
>duplexer connected to 250 feet of 7/8 hard line and a DB224 antenna.
>The distance between repeaters is about 18 miles line of sight with
>no obstructions. The other repeater is running a smaller PA driver
>with an output of 25 watts. I am not sure of the full power
>capability of this driver. This PA then drives a ¼ KW tube type final
>set at about 90 watts. This is connected to a 4 cavity BPBR duplexer,
>200 feet of ½ hard line, and a DB224 antenna.
>
>The problem is when the our repeater 146.76 is in transmit and
>someone keys the 147.36 repeater a loop condition is set up locking
>on the 147.36 on until the 146.76 drops. Also audio feedback is heard
>on the 146.36 repeater. This is typical receiver transmitter intermod.
>
>Here is what I have done so for. I checked the 146.76 repeater and
>there is no signal on it on 147.96 or any other frequency other than
>146.76. I then drove to the 146.36 repeater location and from my car
>in front of the repeater building duplicated the problem by
>transmitting on 146.76. As we used to say in the phone business, the
>trouble is leaving here OK. Next I put a calibrated receiver on the
>TX port of their BPBR duplexer and measured about -50DB when the
>146.76 repeater was on. Also I could not squelch out the .76 signal
>by holding my hands over the antenna of my handheld radio in the
>building. There is lots of.76 signal down there so I suspect
>transmitter mixing of the 146.76 with 147.36 in the .36 PA. But
>where? I disconnected the ¼ KW PA and hooked the driver up directly
>to the duplexer and the mixing signal on 147.96 is worse. I then put
>one band pass 147.36, band reject 147. 76 cavity between the PA
>driver and the duplexer. To my surprise the mixing signal on 147.96
>is even higher! I also tried a single band pass cavity with about the
>same results. Having run out of cavity's I came back home.
>
> I realize their PA driver most likely needs to be checked. If the
>driver PA is ok they will need 30 to 50 DB of isolation between the
>147.36 final and the duplexer which will be at least two cavities. I
>was able to duplicate this mixing with a couple of 2 meter radios, a
>lossy T connector and a signal generator. I took two high pass
>cavities out of a duplexer tuning then to pass 147.36 and reject
>146.76. I ended up with around 70DB of rejection and 2DB in the pass.
>I recorded the amount of signal needed to cause the mixing. I then
>put the cavities between the signal generator and transmitter. To my
>surprise the amount of signal to start mixing was about the same. The
>cavities are the type with a T on one port and a compression
>capacitor for the reject tuning.
>Some questions I have for the group are:
>1. What is the best type of cavity filter to use in this situation
>and where should it be placed?
>2. Has anyone else seen that, been there, done that, and what was
>your solution?
>Any information or ideas will be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





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ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje.

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

[John Sichert]

I hate to tell you, a definite way to eliminate 
the problem, is a frequency change so that the 
output of the two transmitters are no longer not 600 khz apart.
It is possible that the mixing is occurring in 
one of the PA's. If the problem is a mix in the 
TX, an isolator on the offending TX should solve 
it. I like the Sinclair isolators.

2A-B  Most likely a 3rd order intermod product  146.76 X 2 = 293.52

293.52 - 147.36 = 146.16  Bad place for it to end 
up on. I have run into this problem several times.


Telco : I think you meant to say, the trouble 
must be on your end, it is leaving here ok... I 
can't use that excuse, my SXS office does not talk to the outside world yet...

Good Luck
John




At 06:34 PM 2/14/2009, you wrote:
>Bare with me this is a bit long.
>Our repeater is on 146.76TX / 146.16RX. In the next town the repeater
>having the problem is on 147.36TX / 147.96RX. Both repeaters are
>Motorola Micors. Our repeater is a 100 watt PA running about 60watts
>with a single band pass cavity between TX and a 4 cavity BPBR
>duplexer connected to 250 feet of 7/8 hard line and a DB224 antenna.
>The distance between repeaters is about 18 miles line of sight with
>no obstructions. The other repeater is running a smaller PA driver
>with an output of 25 watts. I am not sure of the full power
>capability of this driver. This PA then drives a ¼ KW tube type final
>set at about 90 watts. This is connected to a 4 cavity BPBR duplexer,
>200 feet of ½ hard line, and a DB224 antenna.
>
>The problem is when the our repeater 146.76 is in transmit and
>someone keys the 147.36 repeater a loop condition is set up locking
>on the 147.36 on until the 146.76 drops. Also audio feedback is heard
>on the 146.36 repeater. This is typical receiver transmitter intermod.
>
>Here is what I have done so for. I checked the 146.76 repeater and
>there is no signal on it on 147.96 or any other frequency other than
>146.76. I then drove to the 146.36 repeater location and from my car
>in front of the repeater building duplicated the problem by
>transmitting on 146.76. As we used to say in the phone business, the
>trouble is leaving here OK.  Next I put a calibrated receiver on the
>TX port of their BPBR duplexer and measured about -50DB when the
>146.76 repeater was on. Also I could not squelch out the .76 signal
>by holding my hands over the antenna of my handheld radio in the
>building. There is lots of.76 signal down there so I suspect
>transmitter mixing of the 146.76 with 147.36 in the .36 PA. But
>where? I disconnected the ¼ KW PA and hooked the driver up directly
>to the duplexer and the mixing signal on 147.96 is worse. I then put
>one band pass 147.36, band reject 147. 76 cavity between the PA
>driver and the duplexer. To my surprise the mixing signal on 147.96
>is even higher! I also tried a single band pass cavity with about the
>same results. Having run out of cavity's I came back home.
>
>  I realize their PA driver most likely needs to be checked. If the
>driver PA is ok they will need 30 to 50 DB of isolation between the
>147.36 final and the duplexer which will be at least two cavities. I
>was able to duplicate this mixing with a couple of 2 meter radios, a
>lossy T connector and a signal generator. I took two high pass
>cavities out of a duplexer tuning then to pass 147.36 and reject
>146.76. I ended up with around 70DB of rejection and 2DB in the pass.
>I recorded the amount of signal needed to cause the mixing. I then
>put the cavities between the signal generator and transmitter.  To my
>surprise the amount of signal to start mixing was about the same. The
>cavities are the type with a T on one port and a compression
>capacitor for the reject tuning.
>Some questions I have for the group are:
>1. What is the best type of cavity filter to use in this situation
>and where should it be placed?
>2. Has anyone else seen that, been there, done that, and what was
>your solution?
>Any information or ideas will be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Repeater-Builder] FT-8500 Adjustments

[k7pfj]

Hi to all,

I have a local ham here in Colorado and he has a Yaseu FT-8500 and his audio is 
off the charts. Does anybody know how to adjust these radio. Is via the front 
panel or on the board in the radio. I also want to bring the Transmitter on 
freq both on the VHF and UHF while im into it.

Mike K7PFJ

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Simple Emergency Repeater Idea

[Chris Curtis]

I ran a 6m and 70cm multicast repeater for years with 100' horizontal
separation and 30' vertical separation.
Granted the vertical separation makes more difference but the 100'
horizontal certainly didn't hurt.

I ran 100 watts on 6m 1.7meg split and about 55 watts on 70cm.
I did finally get 2 small cans on the rx side of 70cm but the gains were
small.

As of today, I'm starting it all over again at a new location.
This time with full sets of cans on new machines.

=]

Chris
Kb0wlf.

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Gomberg
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:11 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simple Emergency Repeater Idea

At 01:19 2/13/2009, paulamywood wrote:
>I am not sure if this would work.
>
>You have 2 handhelds with remote PTT jacks on it.
>
>Set Radio 1 to the Input freq
>Set Radio 2 to the Output Freq
>
>Take the audio from  Radio 1 out jack for the external earpiece and put
>it to the small jack on the output freq.

This might work on 70cm if you vertically separated the antenna by 
lifting one of the HTs on a piece of monofilament thrown over a tree 
branch WAY up in the air.   Might be worth trying if you can get the 
upper radio up 100 feet or so above the other.  That would be about 
40+ wavelengths which might be enuf to kill the desense.



>In theory it should key the out put radio to rebroadcast the signal.
>
>my MP3 player has a record feature that will allow you to go from the
>head phone size jack to the smaller jack.  I am going to have to try it
>when I have some time, but any thoughts on this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1951 - Release Date: 
>02/13/09 06:51:00


-- 
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco   NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
- 








Yahoo! Groups Links



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.234 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 02/11/09
18:11:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simple Emergency Repeater Idea

[Dave Gomberg]

At 01:19 2/13/2009, paulamywood wrote:
>I am not sure if this would work.
>
>You have 2 handhelds with remote PTT jacks on it.
>
>Set Radio 1 to the Input freq
>Set Radio 2 to the Output Freq
>
>Take the audio from  Radio 1 out jack for the external earpiece and put
>it to the small jack on the output freq.

This might work on 70cm if you vertically separated the antenna by 
lifting one of the HTs on a piece of monofilament thrown over a tree 
branch WAY up in the air.   Might be worth trying if you can get the 
upper radio up 100 feet or so above the other.  That would be about 
40+ wavelengths which might be enuf to kill the desense.



>In theory it should key the out put radio to rebroadcast the signal.
>
>my MP3 player has a record feature that will allow you to go from the
>head phone size jack to the smaller jack.  I am going to have to try it
>when I have some time, but any thoughts on this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1951 - Release Date: 
>02/13/09 06:51:00


-- 
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco   NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
- 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

[Eric Lemmon]

The first question that enters my mind is, were both Micor stations
originally built as repeaters, with the extra filters and shielding plates,
or are one or both base stations that have been converted to repeaters?  It
is important that the extra shield plates provided with repeater stations
are securely in place, with all screws installed.  The second question is,
are either or both repeaters equipped with ferrite isolators?

Thank you for performing some outstanding troubleshooting, and for providing
detailed information about your findings!

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wa5luy
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:35 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

Bear with me this is a bit long.
Our repeater is on 146.76TX / 146.16RX. In the next town the repeater 
having the problem is on 147.36TX / 147.96RX. Both repeaters are 
Motorola Micors. Our repeater is a 100 watt PA running about 60watts 
with a single band pass cavity between TX and a 4 cavity BPBR 
duplexer connected to 250 feet of 7/8 hard line and a DB224 antenna. 
The distance between repeaters is about 18 miles line of sight with 
no obstructions. The other repeater is running a smaller PA driver 
with an output of 25 watts. I am not sure of the full power 
capability of this driver. This PA then drives a ¼ kW tube type final 
set at about 90 watts. This is connected to a 4 cavity BPBR duplexer, 
200 feet of ½ hard line, and a DB224 antenna.

The problem is when the our repeater 146.76 is in transmit and 
someone keys the 147.36 repeater a loop condition is set up locking 
on the 147.36 on until the 146.76 drops. Also audio feedback is heard 
on the 146.36 repeater. This is typical receiver transmitter intermod.

Here is what I have done so for. I checked the 146.76 repeater and 
there is no signal on it on 147.96 or any other frequency other than 
146.76. I then drove to the 146.36 repeater location and from my car 
in front of the repeater building duplicated the problem by 
transmitting on 146.76. As we used to say in the phone business, the 
trouble is leaving here OK. Next I put a calibrated receiver on the 
TX port of their BPBR duplexer and measured about -50dB when the 
146.76 repeater was on. Also I could not squelch out the .76 signal 
by holding my hands over the antenna of my handheld radio in the 
building. There is lots of .76 signal down there so I suspect 
transmitter mixing of the 146.76 with 147.36 in the .36 PA. But 
where? I disconnected the ¼ kW PA and hooked the driver up directly 
to the duplexer and the mixing signal on 147.96 is worse. I then put 
one band pass 147.36, band reject 147. 76 cavity between the PA 
driver and the duplexer. To my surprise the mixing signal on 147.96 
is even higher! I also tried a single band pass cavity with about the 
same results. Having run out of cavities, I came back home.

I realize their PA driver most likely needs to be checked. If the 
driver PA is ok they will need 30 to 50 dB of isolation between the 
147.36 final and the duplexer which will be at least two cavities. I 
was able to duplicate this mixing with a couple of 2 meter radios, a 
lossy T connector and a signal generator. I took two high pass 
cavities out of a duplexer tuning then to pass 147.36 and reject 
146.76. I ended up with around 70 dB of rejection and 2 dB in the pass. 
I recorded the amount of signal needed to cause the mixing. I then 
put the cavities between the signal generator and transmitter. To my 
surprise the amount of signal to start mixing was about the same. The 
cavities are the type with a T on one port and a compression 
capacitor for the reject tuning.
Some questions I have for the group are:
1. What is the best type of cavity filter to use in this situation 
and where should it be placed? 
2. Has anyone else seen that, been there, done that, and what was 
your solution?
Any information or ideas will be appreciated.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

[mch]

You need to reject the opposite TX on each repeater. Your BP filters were set 
wrong. You rejected the RX on the TX side - something the duplexer should be 
doing already. You need to install them in the repeater and reject the other 
TX. IOW, install a filter in the .16 repeater and notch the .36 TX. A good 
duplexer should do this as well, but many don't.

Joe M.

 On Sat 14/02/09  6:34 PM , "wa5luy" wa5...@cablelynx.com sent:
> Bare with me this is a bit long.
> Our repeater is on 146.76TX / 146.16RX. In the next town the repeater 
> having the problem is on 147.36TX / 147.96RX. Both repeaters are 
> Motorola Micors. Our repeater is a 100 watt PA running about 60watts 
> with a single band pass cavity between TX and a 4 cavity BPBR 
> duplexer connected to 250 feet of 7/8 hard line and a DB224 antenna. 
> The distance between repeaters is about 18 miles line of sight with 
> no obstructions. The other repeater is running a smaller PA driver 
> with an output of 25 watts. I am not sure of the full power 
> capability of this driver. This PA then drives a ¼ KW tube type
> final set at about 90 watts. This is connected to a 4 cavity BPBR duplexer, 
> 200 feet of ½ hard line, and a DB224 antenna.
> 
> The problem is when the our repeater 146.76 is in transmit and 
> someone keys the 147.36 repeater a loop condition is set up locking 
> on the 147.36 on until the 146.76 drops. Also audio feedback is heard 
> on the 146.36 repeater. This is typical receiver transmitter intermod.
> 
> Here is what I have done so for. I checked the 146.76 repeater and 
> there is no signal on it on 147.96 or any other frequency other than 
> 146.76. I then drove to the 146.36 repeater location and from my car 
> in front of the repeater building duplicated the problem by 
> transmitting on 146.76. As we used to say in the phone business, the 
> trouble is leaving here OK.  Next I put a calibrated receiver on the 
> TX port of their BPBR duplexer and measured about -50DB when the 
> 146.76 repeater was on. Also I could not squelch out the .76 signal 
> by holding my hands over the antenna of my handheld radio in the 
> building. There is lots of.76 signal down there so I suspect 
> transmitter mixing of the 146.76 with 147.36 in the .36 PA. But 
> where? I disconnected the ¼ KW PA and hooked the driver up directly
> to the duplexer and the mixing signal on 147.96 is worse. I then put 
> one band pass 147.36, band reject 147. 76 cavity between the PA 
> driver and the duplexer. To my surprise the mixing signal on 147.96 
> is even higher! I also tried a single band pass cavity with about the 
> same results. Having run out of cavity's I came back home.
> 
> I realize their PA driver most likely needs to be checked. If the 
> driver PA is ok they will need 30 to 50 DB of isolation between the 
> 147.36 final and the duplexer which will be at least two cavities. I 
> was able to duplicate this mixing with a couple of 2 meter radios, a 
> lossy T connector and a signal generator. I took two high pass 
> cavities out of a duplexer tuning then to pass 147.36 and reject 
> 146.76. I ended up with around 70DB of rejection and 2DB in the pass. 
> I recorded the amount of signal needed to cause the mixing. I then 
> put the cavities between the signal generator and transmitter.  To my 
> surprise the amount of signal to start mixing was about the same. The 
> cavities are the type with a T on one port and a compression 
> capacitor for the reject tuning.
> Some questions I have for the group are:
> 1. What is the best type of cavity filter to use in this situation 
> and where should it be placed? 
> 2. Has anyone else seen that, been there, done that, and what was 
> your solution?
> Any information or ideas will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/
>  Your email settings:
> Individual Email | Traditional
> 
>  To change settings online go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join(Yahoo! ID required)
> 
>  To change settings via email:
> repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
> repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Help with intermod between repeaters.

[wa5luy]

Bare with me this is a bit long.
Our repeater is on 146.76TX / 146.16RX. In the next town the repeater 
having the problem is on 147.36TX / 147.96RX. Both repeaters are 
Motorola Micors. Our repeater is a 100 watt PA running about 60watts 
with a single band pass cavity between TX and a 4 cavity BPBR 
duplexer connected to 250 feet of 7/8 hard line and a DB224 antenna. 
The distance between repeaters is about 18 miles line of sight with 
no obstructions. The other repeater is running a smaller PA driver 
with an output of 25 watts. I am not sure of the full power 
capability of this driver. This PA then drives a ¼ KW tube type final 
set at about 90 watts. This is connected to a 4 cavity BPBR duplexer, 
200 feet of ½ hard line, and a DB224 antenna.

The problem is when the our repeater 146.76 is in transmit and 
someone keys the 147.36 repeater a loop condition is set up locking 
on the 147.36 on until the 146.76 drops. Also audio feedback is heard 
on the 146.36 repeater. This is typical receiver transmitter intermod.

Here is what I have done so for. I checked the 146.76 repeater and 
there is no signal on it on 147.96 or any other frequency other than 
146.76. I then drove to the 146.36 repeater location and from my car 
in front of the repeater building duplicated the problem by 
transmitting on 146.76. As we used to say in the phone business, the 
trouble is leaving here OK.  Next I put a calibrated receiver on the 
TX port of their BPBR duplexer and measured about -50DB when the 
146.76 repeater was on. Also I could not squelch out the .76 signal 
by holding my hands over the antenna of my handheld radio in the 
building. There is lots of.76 signal down there so I suspect 
transmitter mixing of the 146.76 with 147.36 in the .36 PA. But 
where? I disconnected the ¼ KW PA and hooked the driver up directly 
to the duplexer and the mixing signal on 147.96 is worse. I then put 
one band pass 147.36, band reject 147. 76 cavity between the PA 
driver and the duplexer. To my surprise the mixing signal on 147.96 
is even higher! I also tried a single band pass cavity with about the 
same results. Having run out of cavity's I came back home.

 I realize their PA driver most likely needs to be checked. If the 
driver PA is ok they will need 30 to 50 DB of isolation between the 
147.36 final and the duplexer which will be at least two cavities. I 
was able to duplicate this mixing with a couple of 2 meter radios, a 
lossy T connector and a signal generator. I took two high pass 
cavities out of a duplexer tuning then to pass 147.36 and reject 
146.76. I ended up with around 70DB of rejection and 2DB in the pass. 
I recorded the amount of signal needed to cause the mixing. I then 
put the cavities between the signal generator and transmitter.  To my 
surprise the amount of signal to start mixing was about the same. The 
cavities are the type with a T on one port and a compression 
capacitor for the reject tuning.
Some questions I have for the group are:
1. What is the best type of cavity filter to use in this situation 
and where should it be placed? 
2. Has anyone else seen that, been there, done that, and what was 
your solution?
Any information or ideas will be appreciated.

Re: [possible spam] [Repeater-Builder] Antenna suggestion question?

[NORM KNAPP]

Telewave makes a 3db omni that is about 7' high or so. Seems like they make a 
4.5db antenna about 12' high. We have always had good service from the telewave 
antennas. We have a lot of their 6db omni uhf antennas out there and they realy 
perform well.
73 de N5NPO
Norm

- Original Message -
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
To: Builder Repeater 
Sent: Sat Feb 14 12:52:48 2009
Subject: [possible spam]  [Repeater-Builder] Antenna suggestion question?

Here is my dilemma.  One of my current work radio sites is being decommissioned 
and torn down.  My new replacement site has some antenna restrictions and I'm 
having trouble finding an antenna to fit the bill.  The old site is 110 ft. 
tall and I have a DB-264 antenna set for omni pattern at 6 dbd on the top now.  
The new site is 225 ft. tall but will not allow dipole antennas only fiberglass 
collinear antennas.  I normally use the Sinclair SC229 in this situation, but 
the site management says that is too tall and doesn't want that either.  They 
will only allow something up to 16 feet in hieght, give or take a little.  So 
I'm looking for something of high quality commercial grade and about maybe 3 to 
4 dbd gain, around 16 ft. tall or so.  I thought that there were these type 
antennas available as I've seen and used them before, but now I can't seem to 
find anyone that sells new ones.  All I can find are unity gain or the big ones 
like I already have.  Did the main antenna manufacturers stop making the in 
between size VHF collineer antennas?  If I'm just missing it for some reason, 
or losing my mind, can someone point me in the right direction.  

Thanks

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure

[W. H. Phinizy]

Mike, Bob, and Chris,

I was thinking about what Chris just suggested (MS VC++, smaller 
executable and you don't have to drag that immense run time around) 
but was not sure that the subject would be welcomed by Motorola's 
legal department. 

Still in all, it's reverse engineering a file structure with (I can 
assure you) NO prior knowledge of the code plug internal 
specification nor any association with Mororola (as in revealing 
company secrets, etc.). 

Chris, I am sure you know this, but the reason the RSS is so bad is 
that it was a different paradigm back in the late 80s; we did not 
have much in the way of OOP and Windows was in its infancy. Visual 
Studio and MFC (VB and VC++) were not due out for a couple of years 
and neither was Borland's 16/32 bit OWL. 

The RSS gets bagged on a lot, but it really was not bad for what it 
did and how it did it once you get the funcion keys down pat. 

I wonder if one could really reverse engineer the RSS 
completely..that is, write and app that edits code plugs and reads/
writes them to Moto radios? Technically, I don't guess there is a 
legal problem but -- as one of this site's excellent articles on the 
subject says -- the Batwing legal beagles could be like the 900-pound 
gorilla.

As Bob suggestd, I'll continue to post my discoveries here as they 
get unravelled. Like Chris, I have a couple an MT1000 and a couple of 
HT600s that could use some looking into.

Regards,

Bill, k6whp (a.k.a., WKJW253)

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chris Carruba 
 wrote:
>
> Mike,
> 
> I have a mt1000 and find the rss for it appalling to use...
> I think it would be nice to wrap a VB program around the codeplug 
to edit it.
> 
> If you care to elaborate more on your knowledge of the codeplug i 
might be able to write a wrapper for it in Visual Basic...
> 
>  Best Regards,
> 
> Chris Carruba (WQIK389)
> 
> CompuTec Data Systems
> Custom Written Software, 
> Networking, Forensic Data Recovery

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna suggestion question?

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 10:52 AM 02/14/09, you wrote:

>Here is my dilemma.  One of my current work radio sites is being 
>decommissioned and torn down.  My new replacement site has some 
>antenna restrictions and I'm having trouble finding an antenna to 
>fit the bill.  The old site is 110 ft. tall and I have a DB-264 
>antenna set for omni pattern at 6 dbd on the top now.  The new site 
>is 225 ft. tall but will not allow dipole antennas only fiberglass 
>collinear antennas.  I normally use the Sinclair SC229 in this 
>situation, but the site management says that is too tall and doesn't 
>want that either.  They will only allow something up to 16 feet in 
>hieght, give or take a little.  So I'm looking for something of high 
>quality commercial grade and about maybe 3 to 4 dbd gain, around 16 
>ft. tall or so.  I thought that there were these type antennas 
>available as I've seen and used them before, but now I can't seem to 
>find anyone that sells new ones.  All I can find are unity gain or 
>the big ones like I already have.  Did the main antenna 
>manufacturers stop making the in between size VHF collineer 
>antennas?  If I'm just missing it for some reason, or losing my 
>mind, can someone point me in the right direction.
>
>Thanks

Check out Comtelco at 

Their web site isn't the best, but its usable.

Mike

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna suggestion question?

[Chuck Kelsey]

Call Sinclair. They may still be able to help you with a shorter antenna.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: T.J. 
  To: Builder Repeater 
  Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 1:52 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna suggestion question?


Here is my dilemma.  One of my current work radio sites is being 
decommissioned and torn down.  My new replacement site has some antenna 
restrictions and I'm having trouble finding an antenna to fit the bill.  The 
old site is 110 ft. tall and I have a DB-264 antenna set for omni pattern at 6 
dbd on the top now.  The new site is 225 ft. tall but will not allow dipole 
antennas only fiberglass collinear antennas.  I normally use the Sinclair SC229 
in this situation, but the site management says that is too tall and doesn't 
want that either.  They will only allow something up to 16 feet in hieght, give 
or take a little.  So I'm looking for something of high quality commercial 
grade and about maybe 3 to 4 dbd gain, around 16 ft. tall or so.  I thought 
that there were these type antennas available as I've seen and used them 
before, but now I can't seem to find anyone that sells new ones.  All I can 
find are unity gain or the big ones like I already have.  Did the main antenna 
manufacturers stop making the in between size VHF collineer antennas?  If I'm 
just missing it for some reason, or losing my mind, can someone point me in the 
right direction.  

Thanks
   



  

[Repeater-Builder] Antenna suggestion question?

[T.J.]

Here is my dilemma.  One of my current work radio sites is being decommissioned 
and torn down.  My new replacement site has some antenna restrictions and I'm 
having trouble finding an antenna to fit the bill.  The old site is 110 ft. 
tall and I have a DB-264 antenna set for omni pattern at 6 dbd on the top now.  
The new site is 225 ft. tall but will not allow dipole antennas only fiberglass 
collinear antennas.  I normally use the Sinclair SC229 in this situation, but 
the site management says that is too tall and doesn't want that either.  They 
will only allow something up to 16 feet in hieght, give or take a little.  So 
I'm looking for something of high quality commercial grade and about maybe 3 to 
4 dbd gain, around 16 ft. tall or so.  I thought that there were these type 
antennas available as I've seen and used them before, but now I can't seem to 
find anyone that sells new ones.  All I can find are unity gain or the big ones 
like I already
 have.  Did the main antenna manufacturers stop making the in between size VHF 
collineer antennas?  If I'm just missing it for some reason, or losing my mind, 
can someone point me in the right direction.  

Thanks

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notching nearby frequencies

[skipp025]

Hi Ian, 

I'm doing pretty much the same situation in one of my applications. 
On the lower frequency receiver (radio) I have only a notch cavity 
set to the other Tx frequency. On the Tx side I have only a band 
pass cavity set to the Tx frequency. My Tx power is about 2.5 watts 
all day, every day... 

Works fine...

cheers, 
skipp 

The notch is better placed in the receiver side of things. The 
bandpass is better placed on the Tx link output. More bang for 
your buck... 

... and I'm using relatively modest Q cavities.


> "Kerincom"  wrote:
>
> I have considered that to install a notch in the link which is
usually a 3
> watt transmitter and I have felt this would be better than notching
the 479
> 350 which is the input to the repeater which seems to be reducing its
> sensitivity .I am currently using a 6inch cavity filter and a extra
6mc450s
> diplexer to notch the signal out and tuned up on a service monitor. The
> Repeater uses a 6db on a 9meter mast and the link is connected to a
beam at
> the bottom of the mast
> .If the site was in a better location than I could reduce the link
below 1
> watt and it shouldn't affect the 479.350 input but that's hard to do
.I also
> found some information about using isolators on the transmitters and
on the
> receiver to filter the signal that is to be removed.I wonder if that
would
> work better.
>  
> Thank You,
> Ian Wells,
> Kerinvale Comaudio,
> 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715
> Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932
> www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
>  
> ---Original Message---
>  
> From: chartmd83
> Date: 14/02/2009 14:18:40
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notching nearby frequencies
>  
> Ian,
> 
> What you would like to do is not difficult just may be expensive if
> you do not have the filters you would need. 
> 
> You described your situation as you want to receive on 479.350 and
> you have a link transmitter on 481.825 on the same or nearby antenna.
> 
> As the 481.825 is a link transmitter you may have better luck putting
> a Notch filter on the output of the 481.825 that would notch the
> 479.350 signal away from 481.825.
> 
> You could stand to loose a few DB on the transmit unless you have a
> broad notch filter which would mean you may need more than one to
> tighten your notch in favor of 479.350 and allow more pass of the
> 481.825. This may mean more insertion loss for the 481 transmit so as
> long as you can stand to loose the signal then that should adjust the
> interfering frequency better.
> 
> As a note you can use Pass as long as there is enough of it and these
> get expensive.
> 
> Jason
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Kerincom"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys .Can you clarify something for me .I have a repeater that
> receives
> > on 479.350 and has a link transmitter on 481.825 and I would like to
> filter
> > the 481.825 out so it doesn't affect the 479.350. I currently have
> between
> > the diplexer and the 479.350 receiver -a band pass cavity tuned to
> 479.350
> > and a notch diplexer tuned to notch the 481.825 .
> > I am concerned that this is reducing the receiver sensitivity and
> feel I
> > would be better to have the band pass between the diplexer and
> receiver and
> > using a t piece connect the notch to the t piece
> > Current setup Diplexer--band pass cavitynotch
> diplexerreceiver
> > 
> > Proposed setup Diplexer -- band pass cavity ---t piece
receiver
> > 
> 
> > Notch
> > I will try the proposed setup shortly on on a hp service monitor to
> see if I
> > am better this way
> > 
> > Thank You,
> > Ian Wells,
> > Kerinvale Comaudio,
> > 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715
> > Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932
> > www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
> >
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola RSS File Structure

[Chris Carruba]

Mike,

I have a mt1000 and find the rss for it appalling to use...
I think it would be nice to wrap a VB program around the codeplug to edit it.

If you care to elaborate more on your knowledge of the codeplug i might be able 
to write a wrapper for it in Visual Basic...

 Best Regards,

Chris Carruba (WQIK389)

CompuTec Data Systems
Custom Written Software, 
Networking, Forensic Data Recovery







From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 1:36:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola RSS File Structure


At 12:54 PM 02/12/09, you wrote:

>In possibly what may be the most blindingly dump question ever posted
>here, but has there ever been a deconstruction of the codeplug files
>for Motorola's HT600, P200, and MT1000 radios?

See below.

>Please know that I am NOT asking for RSS nor am I asking for
>copyrighted or patented material from Motorola. Nor am I asking that
>anything be sent to me.
>
>I am wondering if anyone has reverese-engineered the codeplug
>structure and posted it.
>
>Again, this request should be in NO WAY construed as a solicitation
>for intellectual property, material, or product.
>
>Thanks in advance for any comments,
>
>W. H. Phinizy, k6whp

Funny you should ask about the Genesis radios.  They are the
only code plugs that I've really looked closely at.

The HT600 and P200 (except low band) are the same radio.
The HT600E, MT1000 and low band P200 are the same radio.

I have no knowledge of the HT600 code plug, but the MT1000
code plug is straight ASCII text characters that are positioned
at specific byte locations in the code plug.

My interest in cracking the code plug is because I have
several MT1000s - a 16 channel UHF on GMRS, a 99-channel
UHF on mixed use, a 99 channel high band that is loaned out,
probably never to be seen again (the guy dropped out of sight),
and a 99-channel low band 42-50 MHz version that I'm still
trying to move to 6m while maintaining sufficient RF bandwidth
to do both 47 MHz Red Cross and 52-53 MHz amateur
repeaters (yes, it will take two different antennas).
In other words, 42-50 will preferably become 46-54, but I'll
settle for 47-54.

Once I figured out enough of the format that I was convinced
that I could use Notepad as an editor I lost interest in going
any further.
I've taken a UHF MT100 code plug and edited it to move
blocks of frequencies around. The radio started out as a mix
of channels and I eventually ended up with amateur simplex
at the low end, open repeaters above that, closed repeaters
above that, and the last 10 channels were GMRS.

I simply limited my edits to line 15 and down, moved the blocks
and fixed the first four characters on leach line.

A year or so later a friend heard about my efforts and sent
me his "cheat sheet", that I combined with my notes
to produce the test below.

Mike WA6ILQ

>  Here's the MT1000 code plug "Rosetta Stone":
>
>  I have two 99-channel UHF radios.  This may not be
>  relevant on 6, 8 or 16 channel radios.
>
>  First open the code plug file in a plain text editor WITH
>  ANY WORD WRAP / LINE WRAP TURNED OFF.
>  Some of the lines are longer than 80 characters and
>  YOU MUST NOT DISTURB THEM.
>
>  Notepad as shipped with Window 3.0 to XP is just fine.
>  Do not use Wordpad.
>
>  Consider the first 14 lines of the file as totally sacrosanct.
>  DO NOT disturb them or modify them with anything
>  but real MT1000 RSS.
>
>  Sample line:   (E-D means D=Disabled E=Enabled)
>
>  01014460446 0DEC2810011H HDEELL42DE0E
>  01 Channel location (01-99)
>  01 2 digit channel display (01-99) (B,L,<,>  ,=) (see display.txt)
>  4460 Receive frequency
>  4460 Transmit frequency
>  E Transmit PL (Enabled-Disabled)
>  D Time Out timer (E-D)
>  D Receive Only channel (E-D)
>  D PAC-RT PL Mode (E-D) (TX PL must be enabled)
>  D TX Inhibit on busy channel (E-D) (RX SQ must be PL)
>  D Quick Call alert tone (E-D)
>  C RX Squelch (C=Carrier, P=PL, Q=Quick Call)
>  12 TX Ch Deviation level (0-31)
>  10 TX Ch Reference Deviation level (0-15)
>  09 PL Code#
>  1 Quick Call tone set#
>  L RX Injection (Low-High) (430-438=L, 438.001-470= H, 470.001 and up =L)
>  H ?? (L-H)
>  E ?? (E-D)
>  E ?? (E-D)
>  E ?? (E-D)
>  L ?? (L-H)
>  L ?? (L-H)
>  2 RX VFO range (430-444=2,445- 454=4,455- 462=6,463- 471=8) (see note)
>  2 TX VFO range (430-446=2,447- 456=4,457- 465=6,466- 471=8)  (see note)
>  D ?? (E-D)
>  D Signalling Option (E-D) (N/A HT600E)
>  0 ??
>  D Scan Channel Lock-Out (E-D)
>
>  The MT1000 is available in low band, high band and UHF versions.
>  The VFO ranges listed do not include low band, high band and
>  the 406-420 range UHF radios only because I don't have any of
>  those to play with.
>  Do not set the display data (the third and fourth characters) to 00.
>  The radio doesn't like it.
>  If you put a "B" as the first letter it comes up as a blank.
>  An "L" comes out OK as well.  I've not tried any others.
>  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure

[Bob M.]

So why don't you and Mike and MCH combine all your information and write up an 
article to be posted on Repeater-Builder? This seems like an interesting topic. 
As long as you put a disclaimer at the top about not being responsible for any 
problems that may occur with the operation of the user's radio as a result of 
modifications made with this information, etc, you should cover your a$$ fairly 
easily.

Bob M.
==
--- On Sat, 2/14/09, W. H. Phinizy  wrote:

> From: W. H. Phinizy 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 8:27 AM
> Mike, MCH, et al,
> 
> Thank you for your comments and particularly the
> "Rosetta Stone" for 
> the channel lines of an MT1000 codeplug. Several
> observations, which 
> may be of interest:
> 
> (1) The first 14 lines (which appear to be 11
> lines for my 16-channel MT1000) are not
> entirely sacred grounds. It is possible
> to "hack" that data to some degree, although
> at this point, I haven't really investigated
> it thoroughly and the RSS might just as well
> provide one enough access...so why bother.
> 
> By the way, I refer to them as the "header"
> data and the channel lines as "detail" data.
> 
> (2) I suspect one of the reasons that modifying
> the header data -- or using a pedestrian editor
> like Notepad -- doesn't work out is because
> it/they might truncate the three blank lines
> between the top of the header data and the
> part that precedes the detail data. Below,
> modified to not wrap, is a snippet from a
> codeplug header. Notice that the line containing
> the recurring "1234566789+" literals is the
> first of these three blank lines. The remaining
> two are polulated woth periods.
> 
> These were modified (filled with non blanks)
> adulterated, saved, and re-read without incident.
> I have not written the codeplug to the radio, so
> be careful. The point is that so long as there are
> 48 blanks terminated by a CR/LF (0x0DOA) the code
> plug seems fine.
> 
> (3) Of possible interest to hack would be the big
> long, line of "308NONENONENONENONENONE.."
> which
> appears to be the PL table. The format belowis 
> separated into significant tokens for clarity:
> 
> 308 D023 D023 0693 2336 0719 2418 0744 2503 0719 2541
> 
> where:
> 
> 308  = constant value
> D023 = Digital 023 (TX & RX) for entry one
> 0693 = TPL 69.3 (TX) for entry two
> 2336 = TPL 233.6 (RX) for entry two
> ..etc.
> 
> Header of 16-channel MT1000:
> 
> 00F604782YYYABCDEFGHIJ XYZ1ARU0909H445S
> ENDDD0103084000300303016070...
> 042NONE NONE 042NONE NONE EEEDXXX
> 308D023D02306932336071924180744250307192541NONENONE...
> 123456789+123456789+123456789+123456789+12345678
> 
> 
>
> 020007007DDEE0001DDDEDEED1501500500DEK
> EEDDDNPDE01500502577750790101800080
>
> 01562EE100110011001100110011001100110011001100110011001000
> D015DD0821649
> 
> 
> (4) I use an editor called UltraEdit; it is by far
> the best product available for software developers.
> It has a built-in hex editor that can be toggled
> on or off. By the way, no pecuniary interest here,
> just a satisfied customer. It is cheap, however,
> and offers a 45-day trial period.
> 
> (5) By the way, if one is interested in methodology,
> it is possible to run the RSS in a DOS window
> (remember, the radio is NOT being programmed),
> edit the code plug, read a code plug with RSS,
> make changes using the RSS, and instantly have
> the editor alert you that a change has been made
> so can see the net effects.
> 
> I tried this on my friend's computer with his RSS
> and my code plugs.
> 
> I have not gotten into the HT600 code plugs yet, but I
> suspect that 
> some of the data blocks are pretty much the same -- or, at
> least 
> similar.
> 
> Again, Mike, I am grateful for your insights and the
> wonderful 
> contributions you and the others have made to the Repeater
> Builder's 
> site. These areicles have fueled my excitement for these
> radios.
> 
> They are great bargains, can be fixed up, and offer
> reliable and 
> sturdy alternative to the more fragile, higher-priced
> alternatives.
> 
> Besides, as a ham, I just like to take things apart and see
> what 
> makes them tick.
> 
> 73s,
> 
> Bill, k6whp
> 
> >
> > Funny you should ask about the Genesis radios.  They
> are the
> > only code plugs that I've really looked closely
> at.
> >
> > The HT600 and P200 (except low band) are the same
> radio.
> > The HT600E, MT1000 and low band P200 are the same
> radio.
> >
> > I have no knowledg

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure

[W. H. Phinizy]

Mike, MCH, et al,

Thank you for your comments and particularly the "Rosetta Stone" for 
the channel lines of an MT1000 codeplug. Several observations, which 
may be of interest:

(1) The first 14 lines (which appear to be 11
lines for my 16-channel MT1000) are not
entirely sacred grounds. It is possible
to "hack" that data to some degree, although
at this point, I haven't really investigated
it thoroughly and the RSS might just as well
provide one enough access...so why bother.

By the way, I refer to them as the "header"
data and the channel lines as "detail" data.

(2) I suspect one of the reasons that modifying
the header data -- or using a pedestrian editor
like Notepad -- doesn't work out is because
it/they might truncate the three blank lines
between the top of the header data and the
part that precedes the detail data. Below,
modified to not wrap, is a snippet from a
codeplug header. Notice that the line containing
the recurring "1234566789+" literals is the
first of these three blank lines. The remaining
two are polulated woth periods.

These were modified (filled with non blanks)
adulterated, saved, and re-read without incident.
I have not written the codeplug to the radio, so
be careful. The point is that so long as there are
48 blanks terminated by a CR/LF (0x0DOA) the code
plug seems fine.

(3) Of possible interest to hack would be the big
long, line of "308NONENONENONENONENONE.." which
appears to be the PL table. The format belowis 
separated into significant tokens for clarity:

308 D023 D023 0693 2336 0719 2418 0744 2503 0719 2541

where:

308  = constant value
D023 = Digital 023 (TX & RX) for entry one
0693 = TPL 69.3 (TX) for entry two
2336 = TPL 233.6 (RX) for entry two
..etc.

Header of 16-channel MT1000:

00F604782YYYABCDEFGHIJ XYZ1ARU0909H445S
ENDDD0103084000300303016070...
042NONE NONE 042NONE NONE EEEDXXX
308D023D02306932336071924180744250307192541NONENONE...
123456789+123456789+123456789+123456789+12345678


020007007DDEE0001DDDEDEED1501500500DEK
EEDDDNPDE01500502577750790101800080
01562EE100110011001100110011001100110011001100110011001000
D015DD0821649


(4) I use an editor called UltraEdit; it is by far
the best product available for software developers.
It has a built-in hex editor that can be toggled
on or off. By the way, no pecuniary interest here,
just a satisfied customer. It is cheap, however,
and offers a 45-day trial period.

(5) By the way, if one is interested in methodology,
it is possible to run the RSS in a DOS window
(remember, the radio is NOT being programmed),
edit the code plug, read a code plug with RSS,
make changes using the RSS, and instantly have
the editor alert you that a change has been made
so can see the net effects.

I tried this on my friend's computer with his RSS
and my code plugs.

I have not gotten into the HT600 code plugs yet, but I suspect that 
some of the data blocks are pretty much the same -- or, at least 
similar.

Again, Mike, I am grateful for your insights and the wonderful 
contributions you and the others have made to the Repeater Builder's 
site. These areicles have fueled my excitement for these radios.

They are great bargains, can be fixed up, and offer reliable and 
sturdy alternative to the more fragile, higher-priced alternatives.

Besides, as a ham, I just like to take things apart and see what 
makes them tick.

73s,

Bill, k6whp

>
> Funny you should ask about the Genesis radios.  They are the
> only code plugs that I've really looked closely at.
>
> The HT600 and P200 (except low band) are the same radio.
> The HT600E, MT1000 and low band P200 are the same radio.
>
> I have no knowledge of the HT600 code plug, but the MT1000
> code plug is straight ASCII text characters that are positioned
> at specific byte locations in the code plug.
>
> My interest in cracking the code plug is because I have
> several MT1000s - a 16 channel UHF on GMRS, a 99-channel
> UHF on mixed use,
..etc.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notching nearby frequencies

[Kerincom]

I have considered that to install a notch in the link which is usually a 3
watt transmitter and I have felt this would be better than notching the 479
350 which is the input to the repeater which seems to be reducing its
sensitivity .I am currently using a 6inch cavity filter and a extra 6mc450s
diplexer to notch the signal out and tuned up on a service monitor. The
Repeater uses a 6db on a 9meter mast and the link is connected to a beam at
the bottom of the mast
.If the site was in a better location than I could reduce the link below 1
watt and it shouldn't affect the 479.350 input but that's hard to do .I also
found some information about using isolators on the transmitters and on the
receiver to filter the signal that is to be removed.I wonder if that would
work better.
 
Thank You,
Ian Wells,
Kerinvale Comaudio,
361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715
Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932
www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
 
---Original Message---
 
From: chartmd83
Date: 14/02/2009 14:18:40
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Notching nearby frequencies
 
Ian,

What you would like to do is not difficult just may be expensive if
you do not have the filters you would need. 

You described your situation as you want to receive on 479.350 and
you have a link transmitter on 481.825 on the same or nearby antenna.

As the 481.825 is a link transmitter you may have better luck putting
a Notch filter on the output of the 481.825 that would notch the
479.350 signal away from 481.825.

You could stand to loose a few DB on the transmit unless you have a
broad notch filter which would mean you may need more than one to
tighten your notch in favor of 479.350 and allow more pass of the
481.825. This may mean more insertion loss for the 481 transmit so as
long as you can stand to loose the signal then that should adjust the
interfering frequency better.

As a note you can use Pass as long as there is enough of it and these
get expensive.

Jason

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Kerincom"  wrote:
>
> Hi guys .Can you clarify something for me .I have a repeater that
receives
> on 479.350 and has a link transmitter on 481.825 and I would like to
filter
> the 481.825 out so it doesn't affect the 479.350. I currently have
between
> the diplexer and the 479.350 receiver -a band pass cavity tuned to
479.350
> and a notch diplexer tuned to notch the 481.825 .
> I am concerned that this is reducing the receiver sensitivity and
feel I
> would be better to have the band pass between the diplexer and
receiver and
> using a t piece connect the notch to the t piece
> Current setup Diplexer--band pass cavitynotch
diplexerreceiver
> 
> Proposed setup Diplexer -- band pass cavity ---t piece receiver
> 

> Notch
> I will try the proposed setup shortly on on a hp service monitor to
see if I
> am better this way
> 
> Thank You,
> Ian Wells,
> Kerinvale Comaudio,
> 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715
> Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932
> www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
>



 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Looking to inface RLC controller to Icom RP 2210

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 05:13 PM 02/13/09, you wrote:

>Looking to put the 220 repeater on the controller
>
>has any one done this ?
>
>Thanks for any and all help
>
>Rick

Google is your friend.

There's a Link-authored PDF file on the Icom page at

along with the service manuals for the entire RP line.

And it's spelled "interface", not "inface".

Mike WA6ILQ