Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Dayton
Maybe one of the members of DARA reads this list... Years ago, when the club farmed out the running of the Hamvention to a real business that new what to do, it was nice to have your vendor packet in the mail by January, so that you could make your plans way in advance and have all of your ducks in a row - the flea market was well- organized and the help was there (and also the policing!) Since the club has taken over the duties, they have been very lax as to actual hamfest service, as I truly believe that THEY think we all will show up anyway, no matter WHAT level of service they give. I haven't been there as a vendor since then, and I don't think I'll go back as a vendor until they change their attitude... (...READ - Don't hold your breath...) At 11:44 PM 5/17/09 -0400, you wrote: That said, this year was MUCH better than last year. Still, I hope there are many more improvements next year. Hint: Start planning it NOW and start putting anything needed for then together NOW. Joe M. Paul Dumdie wrote: The folks that run the flea market spaces need to work harder on getting things sent out in a timely manor. Yahoo! Groups Links - Adam -
[Repeater-Builder] DB antenna Element
I have a DB224 antenna that one of the elements has lost the bottom half. I am looking for just 1 element the antenna measures 15 1/4 inches from the middle tube to the inner element bend. This is a 150-160 split antenna.. Please contact me direct. Thanks! Paul R. Dumdie Jr. 73 W9DWP/R IRLP-NODE-4455 443.025/2A 145.270/1B/1Z/NAC-293 ARC-Radio-8 KCARES KCAPS HERD546 EX WB9QWZ WQGG738-462.725 AAR5CU/T www.riflesandradios.com www.theherd.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dayton hamfest vs hotels / motels / sleeping arrangements
Try this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hamvention/ 73, Joe, K1ike Don Kupferschmidt wrote: Hi everyone, I wanted to go to Dayton this year but a death in the immediate family plus my wife's work trip to a distant city precluded this from happening this year. I've been monitoring the posts about Dayton and it seems that there are some of you who are unhappy about their sleeping accommodations while attending the hamfest. Perhaps there should be an informal discussion on who's good to stay at, and who's not so good. I plan to go next year and I'd like to know where there is a good place to stay for a reasonable price. Any input from the list members? '73 Don, KD9PT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Isolator Loss
I think that you better consider putting harmonic filters on your repeaters. Doing the math, your 2nd harmonics fall on 294.00MHz and 294.45MHz. A quick search on the Internet shows that the US Air Force has a frequency allocation of 291.800 to 296.650MHz. The least that you should do is check and see if you have a 2nd harmonic radiating when one or both of your repeaters are keyed. A visit from the USAF may not make the tower owner happy and would put you in a bad situation. 73, Joe, K1ike NORM KNAPP wrote: Thanks so much for the inFo. I have seeb them on some transmit combiners for UHF and 800mhz, but a VHF one is rare. I don't think I need one however. I have 2 VHF (2m) ham repeaters on an old ATT microwave tower. One is 147.225 and the other is 147.000.
[Repeater-Builder] SyntorX Repeater
OK, I have been reading for several days all of the info on these radios. I have two units that I want to modify into repeater to replace an antique split site machine that we have and have a spare with the other. What I understand is if I get the Xcat module and make the mods that KB0NLY has on his site that should do what I want for a low power 50 watt machine. What I don't see is where to connect the receiver antenna lead. Thanks Henry
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Dayton
MCH wrote: That said, this year was MUCH better than last year. Still, I hope there are many more improvements next year. Hint: Start planning it NOW and start putting anything needed for then together NOW. Joe M. Also, I can see how some of the hotel staff dreads this event, with some of the people I have seen in the past showing up, and stories I have heard. (didn't go this year, but I've been seeing this for 30 years!) HINT: Don't be a jerk! Don't tear up your room! Don't make the staff clean up big piles of trash when you leave! And take a bath, use deodorant, and wear clean clothes! You'll be treated more like a human being! I'm not saying that those here who are/were treated badly are the ones I'm talking about, but I can see how the staff might get short after what they have had to deal with over the years.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SyntorX Repeater
Did you go to the source and ask KB0NLY? He may be able to give you exactly the answers you need. Bob M. == --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Henry Harms hha...@fidnet.com wrote: From: Henry Harms hha...@fidnet.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] SyntorX Repeater To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 10:42 AM OK, I have been reading for several days all of the info on these radios. I have two units that I want to modify into repeater to replace an antique split site machine that we have and have a spare with the other. What I understand is if I get the Xcat module and make the mods that KB0NLY has on his site that should do what I want for a low power 50 watt machine. What I don't see is where to connect the receiver antenna lead. Thanks Henry Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: SyntorX Repeater
You cannot make a repeater out of a single Syntor X, they are not able to be duplexed. You need a PAIR of Syntor X's to make a repeater. One being the receiver, one being the transmitter. So then the receive antenna connection just goes to the front of the receive radio.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SyntorX Repeater
OK, I was thinking of how our Micor is setup. So I'm guessing that the mods need to be made to both radios to get the connections for the controller to the J1 connector, and I will need two Xcat modules for the freqs? Seems like a terrible waste of a good radio. Thanks, I appreciate the help. Henry kb0nly wrote: You cannot make a repeater out of a single Syntor X, they are not able to be duplexed. You need a PAIR of Syntor X's to make a repeater. One being the receiver, one being the transmitter. So then the receive antenna connection just goes to the front of the receive radio.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton
Maybe one of the members of DARA reads this list... If they don't... I'll certainly try to relay valid issues I read. Years ago, when the club farmed out the running of the Hamvention to a real business that new what to do, That stopped because of excessive unreported/tracked expenses (aka money was going poof in someone's pocket). ... lots of money went poof... it was nice to have your vendor packet in the mail by January, so that you could make your plans way in advance and have all of your ducks in a row - the flea market was well-organized and the help was there (and also the policing!) When the farmed out people departed... they (he) refused to give the database to the club. The club back on the scene was flying blind for some time. Since the club has taken over the duties, they have been very lax as to actual ham-fest service, Anytime you have a group... a number of the people first raising their hands to help are sometimes not the best people for the job. The person you had been dealing with with the initials RB was probably not the best person for the job. But RB is gone and things are moving forward as best possible. as I truly believe that THEY think we all will show up anyway, no matter WHAT level of service they give. They do not think that... in fact they care quite a bit about Hamvention, what you think and provide as direct feedback, but changing a volunteer staffed ship's direction is a slow process. Things are getting better every year... I haven't been there as a vendor since then, and I don't think I'll go back as a vendor until they change their attitude... (...READ - Don't hold your breath...) Hams are not always the easiest group of people to deal with. I do provide very limited feedback toward DARA members (I know) for valid post items and Emails I see. Your results will obviously vary... cheers, s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Dayton
Adam, I'm a volunteer at the inside exhibits. Things were definitely better this year than last, and its recognized that there is still lots of room for improvement, especially in the flea market. Our ham club had problems getting flea market spots so I know of that pain, dealing with it personally. There were problems with the professional group too. Different, but still problems. The good news is that things are getting better. I'm convinced of that, having walked the floor Thursday evening and having talked with nearly every vendor in the east and north halls. Very few problems, and I was able to fix three of them myself by calling others. Not bad. --STeve Andre' wb8wsf en82 On Monday 18 May 2009 06:57:45 Adam T. Cately wrote: Maybe one of the members of DARA reads this list... Years ago, when the club farmed out the running of the Hamvention to a real business that new what to do, it was nice to have your vendor packet in the mail by January, so that you could make your plans way in advance and have all of your ducks in a row - the flea market was well- organized and the help was there (and also the policing!) Since the club has taken over the duties, they have been very lax as to actual hamfest service, as I truly believe that THEY think we all will show up anyway, no matter WHAT level of service they give. I haven't been there as a vendor since then, and I don't think I'll go back as a vendor until they change their attitude... (...READ - Don't hold your breath...) At 11:44 PM 5/17/09 -0400, you wrote: That said, this year was MUCH better than last year. Still, I hope there are many more improvements next year. Hint: Start planning it NOW and start putting anything needed for then together NOW. Joe M. Paul Dumdie wrote: The folks that run the flea market spaces need to work harder on getting things sent out in a timely manor. Yahoo! Groups Links - Adam -
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton 2009 (Cow-girl Drill Team)
Hi John, A well placed food tent in the flea market area with very nice visual effects. ... and the smell of cooking brats blow all over the place. They have a large tip jar and flirt with pretty much everyone for obvious good results. Our group assembles (our booth) an unfortunate short two row distance away so frequent trips are required. I fell off the (diet) wagon twice but I honestly didn't try that hard to stay on it... cheers, skipp JOHN MACKEY jmac...@... wrote: Skipp - Please tell more about the Cow-girl Drill Team (for those of us who couldn't make it to Dayton this year and want to hear about best of Dayton!) -- Original Message -- Received: Sat, 16 May 2009 08:46:22 PM PDT From: skipp025 skipp...@... SNIP Sunday is the big finish... Last Brat from the Cow-girl Drill Team (you have to have or be here to know about the CGDT) and then back on the healthy diet Monday morning. SNIP
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Cow-girl Drill Team
Our group is about 2 rows away as well. Thankfully the wind blew another direction, and we did not smell the grill! Speaking of the grill, on Friday... did any of you notice the smoke-filled main arena?? Some how... with all the cooking in the area, the main arena looked like a smoker's paradise! 73! Kim - WG8S
[Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Several weeks ago I posted about my ongoing battle with duplex noise on a 2 meter repeater. I have now found a big piece of the problem (maybe all of it) but I'm a little surprised. I am wondering if others have had similar experiences. Two years ago I put up a new (well... NOS, actually) Sinclair SD2352 antenna (8 dipoles, bidirectional pattern). I had no noise for several months after that, but then it started coming back. By this Spring the repeater had become all but unusable. Recently I took down the Sinclair and installed a temporary antenna. Noise gone! Huh? I subsequently disassembled the Sinclair to check for problems. Every piece of hardware was tight. I found no evidence of water in any of the N connectors on the harness, which I had wrapped with Scotch 23 rubber tape followed by Super 88 vinyl tape. The impedance of the complete array and of each individual dipole was still nominal, as it had been prior to being installed. I have now put one dipole from the array on the tower and it is running absolutely noise free. Moving it around on the tower doesn't have any affect... it is noise free wherever I put it. Lacking any other explanation it would seem something in the array became noisy after a short time. I don't know if it is a problem with one or more of the dipoles or perhaps something in the factory assembled portion of the harness. I have not yet attempted to do a post mortem on the factory harness assemblies. I am wondering if this is a unique experience or if this is a common failure mode in exposed dipole arrays? I don't recall hearing much about such arrays becoming noisy, at least in such a short time. Since these dipoles are 50 ohms, I think it would be easy enough to build two 4-dipole cardioid arrays from it, *if* the problem lies in the harness and not in one or more of the dipoles. I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Dayton
You make it sound worse than the 40,000-some 12-25 year olds that I help 'babysit' each year for a popular Japanese Animation convention... One would think with age comes maturity; in your example it begs to differ. -Brian / KF4ZWZ On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 7:48 AM, wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com wrote: MCH wrote: That said, this year was MUCH better than last year. Still, I hope there are many more improvements next year. Hint: Start planning it NOW and start putting anything needed for then together NOW. Joe M. Also, I can see how some of the hotel staff dreads this event, with some of the people I have seen in the past showing up, and stories I have heard. (didn't go this year, but I've been seeing this for 30 years!) HINT: Don't be a jerk! Don't tear up your room! Don't make the staff clean up big piles of trash when you leave! And take a bath, use deodorant, and wear clean clothes! You'll be treated more like a human being! I'm not saying that those here who are/were treated badly are the ones I'm talking about, but I can see how the staff might get short after what they have had to deal with over the years. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need MSR2000 PL Reeds or alternate suggestions
Are sure it has been certificated for the current narrowband emission mask? Ham, fine if it isn't. Part 90, it ain't legal if it hasn't. Take the FCC ID to: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm and see if it's approved for 11K0F3E, Mask D. WalterH --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 skipp...@... wrote: Re: Need MSR2000 PL Reeds or alternate suggestions Thanks everyone for their feedback. I have two reeds on order from MDM and will just go with that. Yes, I've told the customer that by 1/1/2013 we'll have to be narrowband, but this is a short-term backup solution so by then we'll figure out something. Check...there are kits to narrowband the rx in the MSR, The factory stock MSR-2000 receiver will already operate Narrow Band without modification. But retro'ing in new narrow band- width filters would be more realistic. however I have been told that simply turning down the deviation on the transmitter will likely NOT meet the new emission mask. Does so far, without any problem... unless you're doing something digital and you don't know how to complete the interface to your controller. I'll have to pose the question on another list and see what I get... Jim No reason why an MSR-2000 can't continue on in narrow band operation... I'm already doing said. s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Paul, I have a question as to how you are mounting the antenna. If you are not top supporting the antenna and mounting it on top of the tower that would explain why as to you getting noise in your transmit signal. Same goes for DB antennas especially the DB224 being so long and not top supported you will eventually get noise in the signal as well. Mike Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kelley N1BUG Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:01 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy) Several weeks ago I posted about my ongoing battle with duplex noise on a 2 meter repeater. I have now found a big piece of the problem (maybe all of it) but I'm a little surprised. I am wondering if others have had similar experiences. Two years ago I put up a new (well... NOS, actually) Sinclair SD2352 antenna (8 dipoles, bidirectional pattern). I had no noise for several months after that, but then it started coming back. By this Spring the repeater had become all but unusable. Recently I took down the Sinclair and installed a temporary antenna. Noise gone! Huh? I subsequently disassembled the Sinclair to check for problems. Every piece of hardware was tight. I found no evidence of water in any of the N connectors on the harness, which I had wrapped with Scotch 23 rubber tape followed by Super 88 vinyl tape. The impedance of the complete array and of each individual dipole was still nominal, as it had been prior to being installed. I have now put one dipole from the array on the tower and it is running absolutely noise free. Moving it around on the tower doesn't have any affect... it is noise free wherever I put it. Lacking any other explanation it would seem something in the array became noisy after a short time. I don't know if it is a problem with one or more of the dipoles or perhaps something in the factory assembled portion of the harness. I have not yet attempted to do a post mortem on the factory harness assemblies. I am wondering if this is a unique experience or if this is a common failure mode in exposed dipole arrays? I don't recall hearing much about such arrays becoming noisy, at least in such a short time. Since these dipoles are 50 ohms, I think it would be easy enough to build two 4-dipole cardioid arrays from it, *if* the problem lies in the harness and not in one or more of the dipoles. I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Mike, Thanks. That is interesting. I don't recall hearing about this with dipole arrays before. What is the failure mechanism? Deterioration of the coax due to repeated slight flexing? The antenna was supported bottom and middle. Paul N1BUG Mike Mullarkey wrote: Paul, I have a question as to how you are mounting the antenna. If you are not top supporting the antenna and mounting it on top of the tower that would explain why as to you getting noise in your transmit signal. Same goes for DB antennas especially the DB224 being so long and not top supported you will eventually get noise in the signal as well.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
There is a 1/4 wave impedance matching section of coax (125?) inside the element. The matching section is stagger tuned from the element itself. That's why it is more boadbanded and why you see two return loss dips. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
That's what I thought Chuck. Thanks! I haven't yet decided whether I want to rip the heat shrink tubing off an element and disassemble it to see what coax is inside, which is why I asked. I was sort of contemplating whether it might be possible to replace all that coax with RG-214 in an attempt to build a noise free harness. But if there's a matching section, I'm sure the return loss without it would be really ugly. Paul N1BUG Chuck Kelsey wrote: There is a 1/4 wave impedance matching section of coax (125?) inside the element. The matching section is stagger tuned from the element itself. That's why it is more boadbanded and why you see two return loss dips. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Sounds like something in the harness went intermittent. To get at the inner element connection, you'd need to cut the shrink tubing on the outside of the element. That should gave you access to the connection point of the 125-ohm matching section that is spliced to the RG-213. You could then pull that out. However, if each element plays alone with no noise, I'd leave the element wiring alone and check the harness that connects the elements together. All that said, I've never worked on a Sinclair. I'm going by info that I believe to be correct as to what is inside the element. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Paul Kelley N1BUG paul.kelley.n1...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy) That's what I thought Chuck. Thanks! I haven't yet decided whether I want to rip the heat shrink tubing off an element and disassemble it to see what coax is inside, which is why I asked. I was sort of contemplating whether it might be possible to replace all that coax with RG-214 in an attempt to build a noise free harness. But if there's a matching section, I'm sure the return loss without it would be really ugly. Paul N1BUG Chuck Kelsey wrote: There is a 1/4 wave impedance matching section of coax (125?) inside the element. The matching section is stagger tuned from the element itself. That's why it is more boadbanded and why you see two return loss dips. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] OT: Value of IC-22A and IC-22U
Anybody know what a fair price for either of these beasts would be these days? I'm assuming it's in working condition and doesn't look like it's been assaulted by an 18-wheeler. Mike WM4B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
The matching section inside the loop is a 1/4 wavelength of RG-63B 125 ohm coax. The overall outside diameter is the same as RG-214 but the dielectric is semi-air (like a large version of RG-62 93 ohm coax) and the center conductor is quite small, like RG-59. I have a few hundred feet of RG-63B if you want to experiment. The actual length of the matching section in the commercial loop is not however a 1/4 wavelength at the center freq of the dipole but rather on the high side. A Sinclair loop I dismantled had a matching section that was 1/4 wave at 182 MHz. I believe that this is the secret to the extra wide bandwidth of the dipole. Using a matching section that is 1/4 wave at the center freq of the dipole (156 MHz) gives a much better return loss at 156 MHz but is at least 20% narrower bandwidth. I have made a number of clones with both the dipole and the matching section tuned to 146MHz. The return loss was very good at 2m (SWR very close to 1:1 vs the commercial antenna that was 1.2:1 at its lowest point over the 138-174 MHz bandwidth.) I also used the same design in several 4 bay 220MHz versions that have been in service for up to 15 years. Check the following URL for a diagram of my clone design: http://www.gorum.ca/fdipolev.gif One point of warning: It is very hard to insert the coax into the loop. You have to make as short a splice as possible since it must slide past the 180 deg bend in the loop. Avoid messing with this coax unless absolutely necessary. As for the harness, the key point is that the electrical length of the RG-213 from each dipole must be identical. The actual electrical length is unimportant, it just has to be the same for all dipoles. The actual configuration of the harness depends on the number of dipoles. One and 4 dipoles can be made entirely with RG-213 whereas 2 and 8 dipoles require a 1/4 wave section of RG-83 35 ohm coax. The one mystery I have is how Sinclair inserts the harness into the mast for the fully enclosed model. The matching section parts of the harness are completely inside the mast and is beyond the means of us amateurs. However an external harness is very practical. Burt Lang VE2BMQ Paul Kelley N1BUG wrote: That's what I thought Chuck. Thanks! I haven't yet decided whether I want to rip the heat shrink tubing off an element and disassemble it to see what coax is inside, which is why I asked. I was sort of contemplating whether it might be possible to replace all that coax with RG-214 in an attempt to build a noise free harness. But if there's a matching section, I'm sure the return loss without it would be really ugly. Paul N1BUG Chuck Kelsey wrote: There is a 1/4 wave impedance matching section of coax (125?) inside the element. The matching section is stagger tuned from the element itself. That's why it is more boadbanded and why you see two return loss dips. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Well the 125 ohm quarter wave info sounds reasonable. That would imply the actual impedance of the folded dipole is in the vicinity of 300 ohms. I think my strategy at this point is to test each element by itself. I'll have to actually put each one on the repeater and check for noise as that's the only way I know to see if they are noisy in duplex operation or not. If all the elements test good, I will rip apart the factory interconnection harness to see if I can find anything wrong with the Y splices. Meanwhile if anyone else has any insight on exposed dipole arrays going noisy within a short time after installation, please chime in. I would really like to understand the issues with this. Paul N1BUG Chuck Kelsey wrote: Sounds like something in the harness went intermittent. To get at the inner element connection, you'd need to cut the shrink tubing on the outside of the element. That should gave you access to the connection point of the 125-ohm matching section that is spliced to the RG-213. You could then pull that out. However, if each element plays alone with no noise, I'd leave the element wiring alone and check the harness that connects the elements together. All that said, I've never worked on a Sinclair. I'm going by info that I believe to be correct as to what is inside the element. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Paul Kelley N1BUG paul.kelley.n1...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy) That's what I thought Chuck. Thanks! I haven't yet decided whether I want to rip the heat shrink tubing off an element and disassemble it to see what coax is inside, which is why I asked. I was sort of contemplating whether it might be possible to replace all that coax with RG-214 in an attempt to build a noise free harness. But if there's a matching section, I'm sure the return loss without it would be really ugly. Paul N1BUG Chuck Kelsey wrote: There is a 1/4 wave impedance matching section of coax (125?) inside the element. The matching section is stagger tuned from the element itself. That's why it is more boadbanded and why you see two return loss dips. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links -- Paul Kelley, N1BUG http://www.n1bug.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Hi Burt. I was hoping you'd jump in. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Burt Lang b...@gorum.ca To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy) The matching section inside the loop is a 1/4 wavelength of RG-63B 125 ohm coax. The overall outside diameter is the same as RG-214 but the dielectric is semi-air (like a large version of RG-62 93 ohm coax) and the center conductor is quite small, like RG-59. I have a few hundred feet of RG-63B if you want to experiment. SNIP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Dayton
I remember Hamvention before, during, and after that third party management group. My experience as an attendee is it was better without them. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 18 May 2009 03:58:03 AM PDT From: Adam T. Cately atcat...@bright.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Dayton Maybe one of the members of DARA reads this list... Years ago, when the club farmed out the running of the Hamvention to a real business that new what to do, it was nice to have your vendor packet in the mail by January, so that you could make your plans way in advance and have all of your ducks in a row - the flea market was well- organized and the help was there (and also the policing!) Since the club has taken over the duties, they have been very lax as to actual hamfest service, as I truly believe that THEY think we all will show up anyway, no matter WHAT level of service they give. I haven't been there as a vendor since then, and I don't think I'll go back as a vendor until they change their attitude... (...READ - Don't hold your breath...) At 11:44 PM 5/17/09 -0400, you wrote: That said, this year was MUCH better than last year. Still, I hope there are many more improvements next year. Hint: Start planning it NOW and start putting anything needed for then together NOW. Joe M. Paul Dumdie wrote: The folks that run the flea market spaces need to work harder on getting things sent out in a timely manor. Yahoo! Groups Links - Adam -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Value of IC-22A and IC-22U
I have an IC-22U that was used once as a remote base for an RC-850 controller. It shows some wear and tear but I think the innards are functional. If ya want it, ya got it fo free. In a message dated 5/18/2009 5:06:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mwbese...@cox.net writes: Anybody know what a fair price for either of these beasts would be these days? I'm assuming it's in working condition and doesn't look like it's been assaulted by an 18-wheeler. Mike WM4B **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115)
[Repeater-Builder] WTB: mastr exec II 13 split
Hey gang, I'd like to source a 13 split mastr exec II. Mobile or station, or even just the modules + pa. Thanks for the bandwidth! Chris Kb0wlf
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SyntorX Repeater
Henry Harms wrote: OK, I was thinking of how our Micor is setup. So I'm guessing that the mods need to be made to both radios to get the connections for the controller to the J1 connector, and I will need two Xcat modules for the freqs? Seems like a terrible waste of a good radio. Thanks, I appreciate the help. Henry That's the way I think too. Putting a radio that has a large channel capability into an application where it will be sitting on one channel all the time is quite a waste to me too. Having said that, the rx's in the Syntor and SyntorX are good rx's, both sensitive and selective, although the X is not quite as selective...but will still beat the pants off of any made-for-ham stuff, and most commercial made-for-repeater stuff! kb0nly wrote: You cannot make a repeater out of a single Syntor X, they are not able to be duplexed. You need a PAIR of Syntor X's to make a repeater. One being the receiver, one being the transmitter. So then the receive antenna connection just goes to the front of the receive radio.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Paul I have recently had to deal with the same problem. Note if the noise goes away when the antenna is wet for frozen. If this is the case try selectively spraying elements with water while whacking the antenna with a rubber hammer. I will leave the mechanics of doing this up to youHI.Feed line noise due to flexing could be eliminated as a cause with this test also. Tightening hardware helped in my case but the final answer was going to all welded construction. Gran K6RIF At 12:00 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: Several weeks ago I posted about my ongoing battle with duplex noise on a 2 meter repeater. I have now found a big piece of the problem (maybe all of it) but I'm a little surprised. I am wondering if others have had similar experiences. Two years ago I put up a new (well... NOS, actually) Sinclair SD2352 antenna (8 dipoles, bidirectional pattern). I had no noise for several months after that, but then it started coming back. By this Spring the repeater had become all but unusable. Recently I took down the Sinclair and installed a temporary antenna. Noise gone! Huh? I subsequently disassembled the Sinclair to check for problems. Every piece of hardware was tight. I found no evidence of water in any of the N connectors on the harness, which I had wrapped with Scotch 23 rubber tape followed by Super 88 vinyl tape. The impedance of the complete array and of each individual dipole was still nominal, as it had been prior to being installed. I have now put one dipole from the array on the tower and it is running absolutely noise free. Moving it around on the tower doesn't have any affect... it is noise free wherever I put it. Lacking any other explanation it would seem something in the array became noisy after a short time. I don't know if it is a problem with one or more of the dipoles or perhaps something in the factory assembled portion of the harness. I have not yet attempted to do a post mortem on the factory harness assemblies. I am wondering if this is a unique experience or if this is a common failure mode in exposed dipole arrays? I don't recall hearing much about such arrays becoming noisy, at least in such a short time. Since these dipoles are 50 ohms, I think it would be easy enough to build two 4-dipole cardioid arrays from it, *if* the problem lies in the harness and not in one or more of the dipoles. I wonder if anyone knows what (if any) gimmick Sinclair used to get such broad SWR bandwidth on these dipoles? The exposed portion of the coax on each dipole is RG-213, 50 ohms... but I'm wondering if they may use some quarter wavelength (or ???) of some other impedance on the part hidden inside the dipole, especially since these things exhibit a clear double dip SWR curve (one dip near the low end of the design range, 138 MHz, and another dip near the upper end, 174 MHz, with a somewhat reactive bump in between). 73, Paul N1BUG
