Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far

[kevin valentino]

Sent the program to George, Bon & Hal.
If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It 
in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted.
 
It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities 
to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either.
 
To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another 
that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk.
 
Enjoy

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino  wrote:


From: kevin valentino 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM


  







Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up 
a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this 
amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files 
section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino  wrote:


From: kevin valentino 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM


  





OK there is a "cute" little program that actually comes fairly close to 
calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable 
database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. 
Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type 
scenario. I will send it to you.

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:


From: George 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM


  

ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the 
amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and 
combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a 
"C" class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck 
here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the 
repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave 
doesn't like more than 450 watts in.

--- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino  wrote:
>
> Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain 
> of the area.
> I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-)
> I do mean literally "approximation. " Many factors come into play. Especially 
> at high frequencies.
> The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc.
> --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: George 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far
> To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts 
> on the antena
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: IFR 1000s

[hybridfan]

Jim,

Try this guy, Kurt Gruber. kurtgru...@yahoo.com 
He works on IFRs.

Ken
WA6OSB

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "George C"  wrote:
>
> That's the smaller series 6 pin, S406, the IFR used the larger one with 
> locating pin. 
> 
> G
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Camilo So"  wrote:
> >
> > There is one on EBay.   
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/Cinch-Jones-S406-CCT-Heavy-Duty-Connector-/150405952853?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2304e4b555
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 73   de W4CSO
> > 
> > 
> >   - Original Message - 
> >   From: George C 
> >   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:14 AM
> >   Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IFR 1000s
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   That's a Cinch-Jones S2406 connector. Pretty rare. Surplus sales doesn't 
> > have them... Six pin. 
> > 
> >   GeorgeC
> > 
> >   --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "lawsign_us"  wrote:
> >   >
> >   > Can anyone help me obtain a power cord or the pin for one for the IFR 
> > 1000s
> >   > Thanks Jim
> >   >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> >   Database version: 6.14850
> >   http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> > Database version: 6.14850
> > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
> >
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

You're reading my mind, Gary!

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Schafer
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 10:59 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Just for grins, find a place (house) to hook your spectrum analyzer up to
the local cable system and see if it is on there.

 

73

Gary  K4FMX

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B)
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 6:15 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 







Problem is Milt, the darn signal level varies like crazy from day to day and
location to location.  I can be in a certain spot and receive the signal
very well, drive until it disappears, and then have it reappear at a high
level as I continue on.  Obviously elevation and blockage has a lot to do
with that, but it actually does that to the point of being ridiculous.
almost like it moves.  I have been wondering if one of the pole-mounted CATV
amps is going crazy and the stuff is squirting out of the CATV system every
place it leaks.  

 

Sure wish we'd get a trace of audio (besides the pager) on the darn thing.

 

This is gonna drive us nuts before we're done.  I'm hearing the stupid thing
in my sleep!

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:27 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

OK, this is probably not going to be an easy one.  

 

I have seen several instances of mast-mounted TV preamps oscillating and
acting as miniature transmitters capable of sweeping over wide swaths of
spectrum as the temperature changes.  They usually exhibit a raw AC buzz on
the signal.  They are almost never active when the weather is cold, only
coming active as the ambient temperature rises.  Usually were fed with twin
lead.  Your description of the audio seems to put that possibility pretty
far down the list.

 

At this point I would probably want to look at the incoming signals on the
repeater with a spectrum analyser and see if you can quantify the level of
the incoming interference signals.

 

If the interference level is high enough you should be able to hear it and
maybe track it with a service monitor that can be run off of 12v in a
mobile.  Since you can call a number on one of the transmitters you can
control things a bit.

 

Good luck hunting.

 

Milt

 

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@ 
yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:42 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

Milt,

 

Not sure what you mean by 'come and go'.  It's there when the pager
transmitter is up, gone when it's not.  It also comes and goes with heat and
sun. we may have days with no interference if it's cool and cloudy or just
plain cold.  Rain makes no difference.  

Nothing remarkable about the audio. sounds like clean, clear paging tones.
Never heard anything els

There is an abundance of TV stations, DTV, translators, AM, FM. you name it.

 The paging signals are both, depending on which site it's coming from.

 I can get my hands on pretty much anything I need.  Spectrum analyzer is no
problem.  I have a good 'connection'.  Did some hunting with a spectrum
analyzer last year to no avail, but now that I have the ability to call the
system and have it send out a page we have a little better advantage. 

 I'd call the area 'populated', but not 'urban'.  Mostly housing around the
site, but plenty of industry (and towers) visible from the top of the water
tank.  (We are, by the way, the only user on the tank.)

 

 

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:19 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: e: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Mike,

 

Does the interfering signal come and go or is it constant?

 

Does it have any AC component; ie buzz or hum at 60Hz, 120Hz, etc., or any
raw buzzing noise?

 

Are there any broiadcast TV stations in the area, DTV or LP translators?

 

Is the UHF pager signal analog, digital or both?

 

What test equipmet do you ahve available?

 

Is the repeater in a poplulated area or remote?

 

Milt

N3LTQ

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@ 
yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:36 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

I don't thi

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Gary Schafer]

Just for grins, find a place (house) to hook your spectrum analyzer up to
the local cable system and see if it is on there.

 

73

Gary  K4FMX

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B)
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 6:15 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 






Problem is Milt, the darn signal level varies like crazy from day to day and
location to location.  I can be in a certain spot and receive the signal
very well, drive until it disappears, and then have it reappear at a high
level as I continue on.  Obviously elevation and blockage has a lot to do
with that, but it actually does that to the point of being ridiculous.
almost like it moves.  I have been wondering if one of the pole-mounted CATV
amps is going crazy and the stuff is squirting out of the CATV system every
place it leaks.  

 

Sure wish we'd get a trace of audio (besides the pager) on the darn thing.

 

This is gonna drive us nuts before we're done.  I'm hearing the stupid thing
in my sleep!

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:27 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

OK, this is probably not going to be an easy one.  

 

I have seen several instances of mast-mounted TV preamps oscillating and
acting as miniature transmitters capable of sweeping over wide swaths of
spectrum as the temperature changes.  They usually exhibit a raw AC buzz on
the signal.  They are almost never active when the weather is cold, only
coming active as the ambient temperature rises.  Usually were fed with twin
lead.  Your description of the audio seems to put that possibility pretty
far down the list.

 

At this point I would probably want to look at the incoming signals on the
repeater with a spectrum analyser and see if you can quantify the level of
the incoming interference signals.

 

If the interference level is high enough you should be able to hear it and
maybe track it with a service monitor that can be run off of 12v in a
mobile.  Since you can call a number on one of the transmitters you can
control things a bit.

 

Good luck hunting.

 

Milt

 

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:42 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

Milt,

 

Not sure what you mean by 'come and go'.  It's there when the pager
transmitter is up, gone when it's not.  It also comes and goes with heat and
sun. we may have days with no interference if it's cool and cloudy or just
plain cold.  Rain makes no difference.  

Nothing remarkable about the audio. sounds like clean, clear paging tones.
Never heard anything els

There is an abundance of TV stations, DTV, translators, AM, FM. you name it.

 The paging signals are both, depending on which site it's coming from.

 I can get my hands on pretty much anything I need.  Spectrum analyzer is no
problem.  I have a good 'connection'.  Did some hunting with a spectrum
analyzer last year to no avail, but now that I have the ability to call the
system and have it send out a page we have a little better advantage. 

 I'd call the area 'populated', but not 'urban'.  Mostly housing around the
site, but plenty of industry (and towers) visible from the top of the water
tank.  (We are, by the way, the only user on the tank.)

 

 

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:19 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: e: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Mike,

 

Does the interfering signal come and go or is it constant?

 

Does it have any AC component; ie buzz or hum at 60Hz, 120Hz, etc., or any
raw buzzing noise?

 

Are there any broiadcast TV stations in the area, DTV or LP translators?

 

Is the UHF pager signal analog, digital or both?

 

What test equipmet do you ahve available?

 

Is the repeater in a poplulated area or remote?

 

Milt

N3LTQ

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:36 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

I don't think so, Chuck.  I work on Robins and traverse it pretty much from
end-to-end daily.  I also have to traverse it quite a ways just to get off
of it to go foxhunt this beast.  Generally the signals on-base are weak to
non-existent.  

 

It's bloody amazing how much RF crap is in the air.  Using a Google Earth
application I can see zillions of sites within earshot.  The mixing
possibilities are endless! 

 

I'm

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

No guys.  The signals on the INPUT are heard in many places around town.  If
the signals are on the INPUT it ain't the ham equipment.

 

Aside from that, I've already stated that the hardline is 7/8" and the
antennas are DB-224.

 

WM4B

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n3ssl
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 10:12 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

What Coax or hardline and antenna's are in use for both rpt's ? What happens
when another RX is used at the site? Maybe a IF issue with the Ham rpt's and
72 mhz some thoughts. 

Ryan n3ssl 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far

[kevin valentino]

Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up 
a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this 
amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files 
section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino  wrote:


From: kevin valentino 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM


  







OK there is a "cute" little program that actually comes fairly close to 
calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable 
database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. 
Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type 
scenario. I will send it to you.

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:


From: George 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM


  

ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the 
amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and 
combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a 
"C" class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck 
here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the 
repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave 
doesn't like more than 450 watts in.

--- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino  wrote:
>
> Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain 
> of the area.
> I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-)
> I do mean literally "approximation. " Many factors come into play. Especially 
> at high frequencies.
> The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc.
> --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: George 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far
> To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts 
> on the antena
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[n3ssl]

What Coax or hardline and antenna's are in use for both rpt's ?  What happens 
when another RX is used at the site? Maybe a IF issue with the Ham rpt's and 72 
mhz some thoughts.  

Ryan n3ssl 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Barry]

As mentioned finding the trigger both with and without the antenna would assist 
with  a solution , it could be very simple but you need to establish possible 
triggers and monitor accordingly with the Spec  unit 
  
_
If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK. Australia's #1 job site
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pior & Simon

[John J. Riddell]

Try,   www.pionsimon.com

They have a new web site for about a month now

It worked for me just now...
73 John VE3AMZ



- Original Message - 
From: "orangetruck38" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:11 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Pior & Simon


> Hi- Just tried to bring up the Pion and Simon site and no luck ? Anyone 
> know of a change ?? TKS,Jerry W8KQ
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far

[Bon & Hal]

Wonder if you might supply a link to the program?  It would be useful in 
understanding the range of my 440 machine.  Thanks.

KA9MXW
  - Original Message - 
  From: kevin valentino 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far



OK there is a "cute" little program that actually comes fairly close to 
calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable 
database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. 
Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type 
scenario. I will send it to you.

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:


  From: George 
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM



  ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic 
housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid 
splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, 
driven by a "C" class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial 
tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew 
semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer 
is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in.

  --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino 
 wrote:
  >
  > Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and 
the terrain of the area.
  > I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-)
  > I do mean literally "approximation. " Many factors come into play. 
Especially at high frequencies.
  > The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, 
etc.
  > --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:
  > 
  > 
  > From: George 
  > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far
  > To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
  > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM
  > 
  > 
  > Â  
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 
450watts on the antena
  >

   


  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Laryn,

 

I don't 'think' there are any forgotten links, but I'll certainly ask the
question when I speak to the owner again.  He's very open about his systems
and I believe he's very involved, but like any of us who is getting older,
it's possible he forgot something.

 

I agree about the spur sounding like a dirty transmitter. that was my first
thought when we heard it and it took a lot of convincing for me to believe
that the pager transmitters were clean.  That being said, it's still very
possible (and likely) that it's mixing with something that is extremely
cruddy and unstable. I can't imagine anything different.

 

I also agree with your comment about multipath.  I also think there is only
one problem source.  I've done quite a bit of foxhunting in the past, but
will admit that I'm rusty and also that I've never hunted in this area.  It
also seems like every place I want to go to take a shot, there's a darn
chain link fence that's either funneling or reflecting the signals.  Nothing
is easy anymore!

 

I've not been to any of the other sites while this is going on.  The issue
with 145.43 was only made known to me after-the-fact and the operator of
that system and I have had several disagreements in the past, so I've just
let that sleeping dog lie.  The 145.11 in Cochran only experiences the
problem on occasion (as opposed to just about any warm/sunny day for the
146.85) and it takes me about 40 minutes to drive to there from either work
or home, so I haven't made a huge effort to do so.  

 

Last time we hooked up the spectrum analyzer to the repeater antenna, what
we were seeing was very daunting.  I need to go back through the many pages
of notes and emails from last year to see if there's anything that I might
have overlooked at the time.  

 

At this point, I'd like to find the offending device and beat it to pieces
with a baseball bat!

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of larynl2
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:04 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  


At the risk of mentioning something that's been mentioned and/or checked by
you before...

I believe you said that linking to the sites is not terrestrial RF but
wireline and satellite. Be sure that there isn't some RF linking that's been
"fogotten" by someone not very familiar with the entire system. I've seen 72
mc. link transmitters transmit spurs just like any defective transmitter
can.

The way this spur wanders around sure sounds like a dirty transmitter.
Puzzling thing is that you've said that the bearings to the "spurs" while
DFing wander all over the place. I would doubt there's more than one spur
generator, so, point is, make sure your DFing person is an experienced
Foxhunter and knows how to handle multipath, one of the biggest *spoilers*
for any Foxhunter.

You said you sat near one of the sites but the interfering signal was weak,
or non-existent. Have you done the same at the other two sites?

Good luck finding this beast!

Laryn K8TVZ

[Repeater-Builder] Re: how far

[George]

the terrain is in new york city area. 
thank you for the consideration and the fast response!

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kevin valentino  
wrote:
>
> OK there is a "cute" little program that actually comes fairly close to 
> calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a 
> cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. 
> Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type 
> scenario. I will send it to you.
> 
> --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: George 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the 
> amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and 
> combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a 
> "C" class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no 
> luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. 
> the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave 
> doesn't like more than 450 watts in.
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino  ...> wrote:
> >
> > Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the 
> > terrain of the area.
> > I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-)
> > I do mean literally "approximation. " Many factors come into play. 
> > Especially at high frequencies.
> > The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc.
> > --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: George 
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far
> > To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 
> > 450watts on the antena
> >
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] how far

[MCH]

Somewhere between 2000' and 200 miles depending on the terrain between 
the HT and the 5000.

Joe M.

George wrote:
> what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts 
> on the antena

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[larynl2]

At the risk of mentioning something that's been mentioned and/or checked by you 
before...

I believe you said that linking to the sites is not terrestrial RF but wireline 
and satellite.  Be sure that there isn't some RF linking that's been "fogotten" 
by someone not very familiar with the entire system.  I've seen 72 mc. link 
transmitters transmit spurs just like any defective transmitter can.

The way this spur wanders around sure sounds like a dirty transmitter.  
Puzzling thing is that you've said that the bearings to the "spurs" while DFing 
wander all over the place.  I would doubt there's more than one spur generator, 
so, point is, make sure your DFing person is an experienced Foxhunter and knows 
how to handle multipath, one of the biggest *spoilers* for any Foxhunter.

You said you sat near one of the sites but the interfering signal was weak, or 
non-existent.  Have you done the same at the other two sites?

Good luck finding this beast!

Laryn K8TVZ

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far

[kevin valentino]

OK there is a "cute" little program that actually comes fairly close to 
calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable 
database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. 
Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type 
scenario. I will send it to you.

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:


From: George 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM


  



ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the 
amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and 
combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a 
"C" class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck 
here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the 
repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave 
doesn't like more than 450 watts in.

--- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino  wrote:
>
> Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain 
> of the area.
> I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-)
> I do mean literally "approximation. " Many factors come into play. Especially 
> at high frequencies.
> The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc.
> --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: George 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far
> To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts 
> on the antena
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: how far

[George]

ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the 
amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and 
combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a 
"C" class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck 
here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the 
repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave 
doesn't like more than 450 watts in.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kevin valentino  
wrote:
>
> Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain 
> of the area.
> I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-)
> I do mean literally "approximation." Many factors come into play. Especially 
> at high frequencies.
> The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc.
> --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: George 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts 
> on the antena
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] how far

[kevin valentino]

Exactly, so like i said "what type of cable are you using" as line loss will 
seriously effect receiver sensitivity.

--- On Sat, 4/24/10, Eric Lemmon  wrote:


From: Eric Lemmon 
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] how far
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:34 PM


  



George,

Since the range of any repeater system is "generally" dictated by how well
it receives distant users and not by the transmitter power, the effective
sensitivity of your receiver during full duplex operation will determine
your range. My gut feeling is that such a system would do well with much
less power.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:25 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far

What is the range of a 800 MHz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater
450watts on the antenna?

RE: [Repeater-Builder] how far

[Eric Lemmon]

George,

Since the range of any repeater system is "generally" dictated by how well
it receives distant users and not by the transmitter power, the effective
sensitivity of your receiver during full duplex operation will determine
your range.  My gut feeling is that such a system would do well with much
less power.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:25 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far

  

What is the range of a 800 MHz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater
450watts on the antenna?

Re: [Repeater-Builder] how far

[kevin valentino]

Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain 
of the area.
I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-)
I do mean literally "approximation." Many factors come into play. Especially at 
high frequencies.
The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc.
--- On Sat, 4/24/10, George  wrote:


From: George 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM


  



what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on 
the antena

[Repeater-Builder] how far

[George]

what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on 
the antena

RE: [Repeater-Builder] What do I have? Micor stations -

[Eric Lemmon]

Dan,

I believe that the "Digital Decoder Board" is a TLN1467A Multifunction
Digital Decoder.  The service manual for that station is 6881016E15, still
available from Motorola Parts for about $28.  The manual is titled, "Micor
Compa-Station Base Radio with Digital Decoder 132-174 MHz."  The model
number is probably C53RTB-3145xV, where "x" is A, B, C, or D.  The "V"
denotes Digital Decoder.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wb0shn
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:30 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] What do I have? Micor stations -

  

Just acquired 2 Micor VHF High Band stations - a 100 watt continuous duty
repeater in a 42" cabinet and a 36" cabinet with a low power 2 frequency
transmitter and two receivers. Looks like there is some sort of antenna
network in the bottom rx that feeds the second rx. My real question is about
two cards in the smaller base station - marked "digital decoder board".
Apparently one for each rx. I cannot seem to get them out of the cage to
find a number yet, so I will have to see why that is. Anyone know what these
two cards are? The manuals I have don't mention them and a search of the
archives here and a general Google search didn't turn up any info. This is a
non-unified chassis, by the way, with the flexible PC cable between the
rack, the 2 rx and the tx (which looks like a mobile transmitter, by the
way). Any help would be appreciated. - 73 Dan

[Repeater-Builder] Pior & Simon

[orangetruck38]

Hi- Just tried to bring up the Pion and Simon site and no luck ? Anyone know of 
a change ?? TKS,Jerry W8KQ

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Problem is Milt, the darn signal level varies like crazy from day to day and
location to location.  I can be in a certain spot and receive the signal
very well, drive until it disappears, and then have it reappear at a high
level as I continue on.  Obviously elevation and blockage has a lot to do
with that, but it actually does that to the point of being ridiculous.
almost like it moves.  I have been wondering if one of the pole-mounted CATV
amps is going crazy and the stuff is squirting out of the CATV system every
place it leaks.  

 

Sure wish we'd get a trace of audio (besides the pager) on the darn thing.

 

This is gonna drive us nuts before we're done.  I'm hearing the stupid thing
in my sleep!

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:27 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

OK, this is probably not going to be an easy one.  

 

I have seen several instances of mast-mounted TV preamps oscillating and
acting as miniature transmitters capable of sweeping over wide swaths of
spectrum as the temperature changes.  They usually exhibit a raw AC buzz on
the signal.  They are almost never active when the weather is cold, only
coming active as the ambient temperature rises.  Usually were fed with twin
lead.  Your description of the audio seems to put that possibility pretty
far down the list.

 

At this point I would probably want to look at the incoming signals on the
repeater with a spectrum analyser and see if you can quantify the level of
the incoming interference signals.

 

If the interference level is high enough you should be able to hear it and
maybe track it with a service monitor that can be run off of 12v in a
mobile.  Since you can call a number on one of the transmitters you can
control things a bit.

 

Good luck hunting.

 

Milt

 

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:42 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

Milt,

 

Not sure what you mean by 'come and go'.  It's there when the pager
transmitter is up, gone when it's not.  It also comes and goes with heat and
sun. we may have days with no interference if it's cool and cloudy or just
plain cold.  Rain makes no difference.  

Nothing remarkable about the audio. sounds like clean, clear paging tones.
Never heard anything els

There is an abundance of TV stations, DTV, translators, AM, FM. you name it.

 The paging signals are both, depending on which site it's coming from.

 I can get my hands on pretty much anything I need.  Spectrum analyzer is no
problem.  I have a good 'connection'.  Did some hunting with a spectrum
analyzer last year to no avail, but now that I have the ability to call the
system and have it send out a page we have a little better advantage. 

 I'd call the area 'populated', but not 'urban'.  Mostly housing around the
site, but plenty of industry (and towers) visible from the top of the water
tank.  (We are, by the way, the only user on the tank.)

 

 

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:19 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: e: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Mike,

 

Does the interfering signal come and go or is it constant?

 

Does it have any AC component; ie buzz or hum at 60Hz, 120Hz, etc., or any
raw buzzing noise?

 

Are there any broiadcast TV stations in the area, DTV or LP translators?

 

Is the UHF pager signal analog, digital or both?

 

What test equipmet do you ahve available?

 

Is the repeater in a poplulated area or remote?

 

Milt

N3LTQ

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:36 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

I don't think so, Chuck.  I work on Robins and traverse it pretty much from
end-to-end daily.  I also have to traverse it quite a ways just to get off
of it to go foxhunt this beast.  Generally the signals on-base are weak to
non-existent.  

 

It's bloody amazing how much RF crap is in the air.  Using a Google Earth
application I can see zillions of sites within earshot.  The mixing
possibilities are endless! 

 

I'm somewhat surprise that we've never heard any audio mixing in with it.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:16 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

How close is Robins AFB?  Maybe?

 

Chuck

WB2EDV

 

 

- Origi

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Not sure about the paging systems. 

 

The repeaters themselves are a variety of systems and their architecture
really doesn't matter since the interference can be heard on the input
frequency with a string and a tin can.  That being said, I know that 2 of
them (mine) are using DB-224s, 7/8" hardline and WACOM cans.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

 

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Oz-in-DFW
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:17 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Mike,

I'm coming to this late, but I have comments and questions. 

What type of hardware are the paging transmitters?  What are the repeaters
in question, and what type of duplexers, feedline, and antennas are used?

On 4/24/2010 3:42 PM, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: 

  

Not sure what you mean by 'come and go'.  It's there when the pager
transmitter is up, gone when it's not.  

In another message you implied it sweeps across multiple repeater inputs.  



It also comes and goes with heat and sun. we may have days with no
interference if it's cool and cloudy or just plain cold.  Rain makes no
difference. 

We saw the same thing with Radio Shack and Winegard active TV antennas on
RVs.  The problem was a high band pager and our UHF radio inputs. 



Nothing remarkable about the audio. sounds like clean, clear paging tones.
Never heard anything else.

This implies a first order contribution to a mix or spur.  If the second or
third harmonic of the pager was involved, the deviation would be a suitable
multiple and should sound distorted.  Might be good to ask him what transmit
dev. he runs, or measure it. 



There is an abundance of TV stations, DTV, translators, AM, FM. you name it.

Yeah but this sounds like something flying.  If mixes sweep across your
input one contributor is almost always an amplifier that is oscillating. The
two frequencies you mention would require a channel 37 station and those
don't exist in the US. 



The paging signals are both, depending on which site it's coming from.

Eh?  what do you mean here?



I can get my hands on pretty much anything I need.  Spectrum analyzer is no
problem.  I have a good 'connection'.  Did some hunting with a spectrum
analyzer last year to no avail, but now that I have the ability to call the
system and have it send out a page we have a little better advantage. 

Is the paging system key down, or is it transmit on demand?

Can you hear the interference far from your site (several miles?)  The
ability to DF it sort of implies this.  



I'd call the area 'populated', but not 'urban'.  Mostly housing around the
site, but plenty of industry (and towers) visible from the top of the water
tank.  (We are, by the way, the only user on the tank.)

What kind of sites are the paging transmitters on?  Rental tower,  water
tank, building?



-- 
mailto:o...@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167 
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) 
 
 
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Milt]

OK, this is probably not going to be an easy one.  

I have seen several instances of mast-mounted TV preamps oscillating and acting 
as miniature transmitters capable of sweeping over wide swaths of spectrum as 
the temperature changes.  They usually exhibit a raw AC buzz on the signal.  
They are almost never active when the weather is cold, only coming active as 
the ambient temperature rises.  Usually were fed with twin lead.  Your 
description of the audio seems to put that possibility pretty far down the list.

At this point I would probably want to look at the incoming signals on the 
repeater with a spectrum analyser and see if you can quantify the level of the 
incoming interference signals.

If the interference level is high enough you should be able to hear it and 
maybe track it with a service monitor that can be run off of 12v in a mobile.  
Since you can call a number on one of the transmitters you can control things a 
bit.

Good luck hunting.

Milt



  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:42 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited





  Milt,

   

  Not sure what you mean by 'come and go'.  It's there when the pager 
transmitter is up, gone when it's not.  It also comes and goes with heat and 
sun. we may have days with no interference if it's cool and cloudy or just 
plain cold.  Rain makes no difference.  

  Nothing remarkable about the audio. sounds like clean, clear paging tones.  
Never heard anything els

  There is an abundance of TV stations, DTV, translators, AM, FM. you name it.

   The paging signals are both, depending on which site it's coming from.

   I can get my hands on pretty much anything I need.  Spectrum analyzer is no 
problem.  I have a good 'connection'.  Did some hunting with a spectrum 
analyzer last year to no avail, but now that I have the ability to call the 
system and have it send out a page we have a little better advantage. 

   I'd call the area 'populated', but not 'urban'.  Mostly housing around the 
site, but plenty of industry (and towers) visible from the top of the water 
tank.  (We are, by the way, the only user on the tank.)

   

   

   

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:19 PM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: e: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

   



  Mike,

   

  Does the interfering signal come and go or is it constant?

   

  Does it have any AC component; ie buzz or hum at 60Hz, 120Hz, etc., or any 
raw buzzing noise?

   

  Are there any broiadcast TV stations in the area, DTV or LP translators?

   

  Is the UHF pager signal analog, digital or both?

   

  What test equipmet do you ahve available?

   

  Is the repeater in a poplulated area or remote?

   

  Milt

  N3LTQ

   

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:36 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

I don't think so, Chuck.  I work on Robins and traverse it pretty much from 
end-to-end daily.  I also have to traverse it quite a ways just to get off of 
it to go foxhunt this beast.  Generally the signals on-base are weak to 
non-existent.  

 

It's bloody amazing how much RF crap is in the air.  Using a Google Earth 
application I can see zillions of sites within earshot.  The mixing 
possibilities are endless! 

 

I'm somewhat surprise that we've never heard any audio mixing in with it.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:16 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

How close is Robins AFB?  Maybe?

 

Chuck

WB2EDV

 

 

  - Original Message - 

  From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 

  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:48 PM

  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

   

  Given that the interference is in three different repeaters over about 40 
air-miles, I have not done that.  I've THOUGHT about it, but it didn't make 
sense, give the circumstances.

   

  73,

   

  Mike

  WM4B

   





  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Oz-in-DFW]

Mike,

I'm coming to this late, but I have comments and questions.

What type of hardware are the paging transmitters?  What are the
repeaters in question, and what type of duplexers, feedline, and
antennas are used?

On 4/24/2010 3:42 PM, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
>  
>
> Not sure what you mean by 'come and go'.  It's there when the pager
> transmitter is up, gone when it's not. 
>
In another message you implied it sweeps across multiple repeater inputs. 
>
> It also comes and goes with heat and sun... we may have days with no
> interference if it's cool and cloudy or just plain cold.  Rain makes
> no difference.
>
We saw the same thing with Radio Shack and Winegard active TV antennas
on RVs.  The problem was a high band pager and our UHF radio inputs.
>
> Nothing remarkable about the audio... sounds like clean, clear paging
> tones.  Never heard anything else.
>
This implies a first order contribution to a mix or spur.  If the second
or third harmonic of the pager was involved, the deviation would be a
suitable multiple and should sound distorted.  Might be good to ask him
what transmit dev. he runs, or measure it.
>
> There is an abundance of TV stations, DTV, translators, AM, FM... you
> name it.
>
Yeah but this sounds like something flying.  If mixes sweep across your
input one contributor is almost always an amplifier that is oscillating.
The two frequencies you mention would require a channel 37 station and
those don't exist in the US.
>
> The paging signals are both, depending on which site it's coming from.
>
Eh?  what do you mean here?
>
> I can get my hands on pretty much anything I need.  Spectrum analyzer
> is no problem.  I have a good 'connection'.  Did some hunting with a
> spectrum analyzer last year to no avail, but now that I have the
> ability to call the system and have it send out a page we have a
> little better advantage.
>
Is the paging system key down, or is it transmit on demand?

Can you hear the interference far from your site (several miles?)  The
ability to DF it sort of implies this. 
>
> I'd call the area 'populated', but not 'urban'.  Mostly housing around
> the site, but plenty of industry (and towers) visible from the top of
> the water tank.  (We are, by the way, the only user on the tank.)
>
What kind of sites are the paging transmitters on?  Rental tower,  water
tank, building?

-- 
mailto:o...@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167 
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Oz-in-DFW]

Yes, but odds are good you are dealing with three different problems -
similar mechanisms but different participants.  Unless of course you can
hear it at all three sites on the same frequency. 

On 4/24/2010 1:48 PM, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
>  
>
> Given that the interference is in three different repeaters over about
> 40 air-miles, I have not done that.  I've THOUGHT about it, but it
> didn't make sense, give the circumstances.
>
>  
>
> 73,
>
>  
>
> Mike
>
> WM4B
>
>
> 

-- 
mailto:o...@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167 
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

1 is wireline, two are satellite.



From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Kaufman
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:44 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

  
How do the paging signals get to the three transmitters? Wireline? 72 
MHz link? 930 MHz link?

Matthew Kaufman

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Matthew Kaufman]

How do the paging signals get to the three transmitters? Wireline? 72 
MHz link? 930 MHz link?

Matthew Kaufman

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Milt,

 

Not sure what you mean by 'come and go'.  It's there when the pager
transmitter is up, gone when it's not.  It also comes and goes with heat and
sun. we may have days with no interference if it's cool and cloudy or just
plain cold.  Rain makes no difference.  

 

Nothing remarkable about the audio. sounds like clean, clear paging tones.
Never heard anything else.

 

There is an abundance of TV stations, DTV, translators, AM, FM. you name it.

 

The paging signals are both, depending on which site it's coming from.

 

I can get my hands on pretty much anything I need.  Spectrum analyzer is no
problem.  I have a good 'connection'.  Did some hunting with a spectrum
analyzer last year to no avail, but now that I have the ability to call the
system and have it send out a page we have a little better advantage. 

 

I'd call the area 'populated', but not 'urban'.  Mostly housing around the
site, but plenty of industry (and towers) visible from the top of the water
tank.  (We are, by the way, the only user on the tank.)

 

 

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:19 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: e: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Mike,

 

Does the interfering signal come and go or is it constant?

 

Does it have any AC component; ie buzz or hum at 60Hz, 120Hz, etc., or any
raw buzzing noise?

 

Are there any broiadcast TV stations in the area, DTV or LP translators?

 

Is the UHF pager signal analog, digital or both?

 

What test equipmet do you ahve available?

 

Is the repeater in a poplulated area or remote?

 

Milt

N3LTQ

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:36 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

I don't think so, Chuck.  I work on Robins and traverse it pretty much from
end-to-end daily.  I also have to traverse it quite a ways just to get off
of it to go foxhunt this beast.  Generally the signals on-base are weak to
non-existent.  

 

It's bloody amazing how much RF crap is in the air.  Using a Google Earth
application I can see zillions of sites within earshot.  The mixing
possibilities are endless! 

 

I'm somewhat surprise that we've never heard any audio mixing in with it.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:16 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

How close is Robins AFB?  Maybe?

 

Chuck

WB2EDV

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:48 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

Given that the interference is in three different repeaters over about 40
air-miles, I have not done that.  I've THOUGHT about it, but it didn't make
sense, give the circumstances.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

e: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Milt]

Mike,

Does the interfering signal come and go or is it constant?

Does it have any AC component; ie buzz or hum at 60Hz, 120Hz, etc., or any raw 
buzzing noise?

Are there any broiadcast TV stations in the area, DTV or LP translators?

Is the UHF pager signal analog, digital or both?

What test equipmet do you ahve available?

Is the repeater in a poplulated area or remote?

Milt
N3LTQ

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:36 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited





  I don't think so, Chuck.  I work on Robins and traverse it pretty much from 
end-to-end daily.  I also have to traverse it quite a ways just to get off of 
it to go foxhunt this beast.  Generally the signals on-base are weak to 
non-existent.  

   

  It's bloody amazing how much RF crap is in the air.  Using a Google Earth 
application I can see zillions of sites within earshot.  The mixing 
possibilities are endless! 

   

  I'm somewhat surprise that we've never heard any audio mixing in with it.

   

  73,

   

  Mike

  WM4B

   

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:16 PM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

   



  How close is Robins AFB?  Maybe?

   

  Chuck

  WB2EDV

   

   

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:48 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

Given that the interference is in three different repeaters over about 40 
air-miles, I have not done that.  I've THOUGHT about it, but it didn't make 
sense, give the circumstances.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 





  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: frequency listing and montioring site chicago area

[ve3ext]

Ted  any chance you're going to Dayton??? 

Jerry VE3 EXT

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

I don't think so, Chuck.  I work on Robins and traverse it pretty much from
end-to-end daily.  I also have to traverse it quite a ways just to get off
of it to go foxhunt this beast.  Generally the signals on-base are weak to
non-existent.  

 

It's bloody amazing how much RF crap is in the air.  Using a Google Earth
application I can see zillions of sites within earshot.  The mixing
possibilities are endless! 

 

I'm somewhat surprise that we've never heard any audio mixing in with it.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:16 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

How close is Robins AFB?  Maybe?

 

Chuck

WB2EDV

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B)   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:48 PM

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

Given that the interference is in three different repeaters over about 40
air-miles, I have not done that.  I've THOUGHT about it, but it didn't make
sense, give the circumstances.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Chuck Kelsey]

How close is Robins AFB?  Maybe?

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:48 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited





  Given that the interference is in three different repeaters over about 40 
air-miles, I have not done that.  I've THOUGHT about it, but it didn't make 
sense, give the circumstances.

   

  73,

   

  Mike

  WM4B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Given that the interference is in three different repeaters over about 40
air-miles, I have not done that.  I've THOUGHT about it, but it didn't make
sense, give the circumstances.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:44 PM
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Portable sig gen into the repeater site and swing it about the place in
various locations , sort of a revrse  hammer to the power poles 
 if it is coax introduced  you quickly confirm your suspicions but if its ac
introduced  or grounding or some other oddity it usually helps to eliminate
the rf feed 
 I have seen some odd stuff introduced via the oddest things into commercial
sites so discount nothing and the best of luck


 Have to go service now as its 4:30 am 

Lest We Forget 

  _  

Find it on Domain.com.au Need a
  new place to live? 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Barry]

Portable sig gen into the repeater site and swing it about the place in various 
locations , sort of a revrse  hammer to the power poles 
 if it is coax introduced  you quickly confirm your suspicions but if its ac 
introduced  or grounding or some other oddity it usually helps to eliminate the 
rf feed 
 I have seen some odd stuff introduced via the oddest things into commercial 
sites so discount nothing and the best of luck


 Have to go service now as its 4:30 am 

Lest We Forget 
  
_
Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Barry,

 

If you read the original post you'll see that we have beam headings pointing
every which way.  Been there, done that, gone broke buying gas.  We're not
ever sure what we're hunting yet.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:38 PM
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

foxhunt maybe ?

  _  

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: mwbese...@cox.net
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:09:08 -0400
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

  

 

That's one I hadn't thought of, Chuck.  Definitely be a bugger to find!

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:57 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Since it sounds like the "problem" is there continuously (with the correct 
WX conditions) it pretty much rules out another TX that is less than 
continuously "on."

My very first thought was a TV antenna preamp. I've seen those generate a 
lot of crap before. The paging may be mixing at the preamp.

Just a thought.

Chuck
WB2EDV

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Besemer (WM4B)" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

> This is a continuation of the repeater interference issue we started to 
> have
> last October. Maybe with a few new pieces of data, it'll spur some new
> thoughts.
>
> Background:
>
> Last October, our repeater (146.850 MHz) started experiencing pager
> interference. The interference can be clearly heard on the input from
> various diverse locations around town. Most of the time, the interference
> seems to drift across the receiver passband (you can hear it coming and
> going as it drifts through), although this year it seems pretty much stuck
> in the repeater input (don't hear the drifting anymore).
>
> Last year, the interference was also heard on a couple of other area
> repeaters, 145.43 in Macon (15 or so air miles away) and 145.11 in Cochran
> (20 air miles away), so you can see that whatever this is covering a 
> pretty
> large portion of the spectrum. I've also been told that it's been heard 
> on
> public-service frequencies as well, although I don't know what those
> frequencies are (exactly) and have never witnessed it myself. Yesterday,
> the interference moved from the input of 146.85 to the input of 145.11 in 
> a
> very rapid manner. a period of 5 minutes or so, and then reversed itself a
> couple of hours later.
>
> We know that the paging interference is coming from 462.775 MHz. The 
> paging
> company owner is a ham and has been very helpful. The interference can 
> come
> from any one of three different sites, one locally, one in Macon and one 
> in
> Roberta (about 25 air miles away), all on the same frequency. He has set 
> up
> a phone number that I can call and leave a voice page on the local system,
> which help us with the tracking immensely. I believe he's going to do the
> same for the other two systems.
>
> I've sat very near his system locally and heard NOTHING on the repeater
> input while the interference event is occurring. I've also checked all 
> the
> likely mixing products as well as frequencies in his multiplier chain and
> heard nothing.
>
> We feel certain that it's got to be a mixing issue, (it's not likely he 
> has
> three transmitters with the same garbage on the output) but given the way 
> it
> behaves it's hard to locate the source. The large, rapid frequency
> excursions are a bit baffling. If you just consider 462.775 and 146.25, 
> it
> puts you very near the audio carrier of CATV Channel 39, but seeing it 
> move
> to the input of 145.11 and 145.43 puts the possible mix frequency 
> somewhere
> between Channel 39 and Channel 40.
>
> The issue disappeared over the winter months. If it's a hot, sunny day 
> you
> can be sure the problem will be present. A hot, cloudy day is also a 
> fairly
> good bet. Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out. Cool and cloudy 
> or
> cold and sunny do not allow the problem to manifest. The issue has been
> present during and after several days of rain, so that seems to eliminate
> the 'rusty bolt' syndrome. I tend to believe it's an amplifier mounted on 
> a
> pole or tower someplace that's going spurious with heat, but that is just 
> a
> theory. Beam headings tend to point to the paging transmitters rather 
> than
> the possible mixing source, which is baffling me as well.
>
> I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but all the back and
> forth ideas we've all been working on never seem to answer all of the
> questions.
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> 73,
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> 

 

 

  _  

Meet local singles online. Browse

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

[Barry]

foxhunt maybe ?

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: mwbese...@cox.net
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:09:08 -0400
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited


















 



  



  
  
  








That’s one I hadn’t thought of, Chuck.  Definitely
be a bugger to find!

 

Mike

WM4B

 







From:
Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:57 PM

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited





 

  







Since it sounds like the "problem" is
there continuously (with the correct 

WX conditions) it pretty much rules out another TX that is less than 

continuously "on."



My very first thought was a TV antenna preamp. I've seen those generate a 

lot of crap before. The paging may be mixing at the preamp.



Just a thought.



Chuck

WB2EDV



- Original Message - 

From: "Mike Besemer (WM4B)" 

To: 

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:08 PM

Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited



> This is a continuation of the repeater interference issue we started to 

> have

> last October. Maybe with a few new pieces of data, it'll spur some new

> thoughts.

>

> Background:

>

> Last October, our repeater (146.850 MHz) started experiencing pager

> interference. The interference can be clearly heard on the input from

> various diverse locations around town. Most of the time, the interference

> seems to drift across the receiver passband (you can hear it coming and

> going as it drifts through), although this year it seems pretty much stuck

> in the repeater input (don't hear the drifting anymore).

>

> Last year, the interference was also heard on a couple of other area

> repeaters, 145.43 in Macon (15 or so air miles away) and 145.11 in Cochran

> (20 air miles away), so you can see that whatever this is covering a 

> pretty

> large portion of the spectrum. I've also been told that it's been heard 

> on

> public-service frequencies as well, although I don't know what those

> frequencies are (exactly) and have never witnessed it myself. Yesterday,

> the interference moved from the input of 146.85 to the input of 145.11 in 

> a

> very rapid manner. a period of 5 minutes or so, and then reversed itself a

> couple of hours later.

>

> We know that the paging interference is coming from 462.775 MHz. The 

> paging

> company owner is a ham and has been very helpful. The interference can 

> come

> from any one of three different sites, one locally, one in Macon and one 

> in

> Roberta (about 25 air miles away), all on the same frequency. He has set 

> up

> a phone number that I can call and leave a voice page on the local system,

> which help us with the tracking immensely. I believe he's going to do the

> same for the other two systems.

>

> I've sat very near his system locally and heard NOTHING on the repeater

> input while the interference event is occurring. I've also checked all 

> the

> likely mixing products as well as frequencies in his multiplier chain and

> heard nothing.

>

> We feel certain that it's got to be a mixing issue, (it's not likely he 

> has

> three transmitters with the same garbage on the output) but given the way 

> it

> behaves it's hard to locate the source. The large, rapid frequency

> excursions are a bit baffling. If you just consider 462.775 and 146.25, 

> it

> puts you very near the audio carrier of CATV Channel 39, but seeing it 

> move

> to the input of 145.11 and 145.43 puts the possible mix frequency 

> somewhere

> between Channel 39 and Channel 40.

>

> The issue disappeared over the winter months. If it's a hot, sunny day 

> you

> can be sure the problem will be present. A hot, cloudy day is also a 

> fairly

> good bet. Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out. Cool and cloudy 

> or

> cold and sunny do not allow the problem to manifest. The issue has been

> present during and after several days of rain, so that seems to eliminate

> the 'rusty bolt' syndrome. I tend to believe it's an amplifier mounted on 

> a

> pole or tower someplace that's going spurious with heat, but that is just 

> a

> theory. Beam headings tend to point to the paging transmitters rather 

> than

> the possible mixing source, which is baffling me as well.

>

> I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but all the back and

> forth ideas we've all been working on never seem to answer all of the

> questions.

>

> What do you guys think?

>

> 73,

>

> Mike

> WM4B

>

> 





















 









  
_
Browse profiles for FREE! Meet local singles online.
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Elaborate please Barry. you lost me.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:36 PM
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

So has anyone conducted tests to determine if it is a mixing problem ?
 sig gen and proximity ?

  _  

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: mwbese...@cox.net
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:28:41 +
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

  



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kris Kirby  wrote:
>
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
> > The issue disappeared over the winter months. If it's a hot, sunny 
> > day you can be sure the problem will be present. A hot, cloudy day is 
> > also a fairly good bet. Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out. 
> > Cool and cloudy or cold and sunny do not allow the problem to 
> > manifest. The issue has been present during and after several days of 
> > rain, so that seems to eliminate the 'rusty bolt' syndrome. I tend to 
> > believe it's an amplifier mounted on a pole or tower someplace that's 
> > going spurious with heat, but that is just a theory. Beam headings 
> > tend to point to the paging transmitters rather than the possible 
> > mixing source, which is baffling me as well.
> 
> Does the paging transmitter have a circulator, or a bandpass cavity 
> between it and the antenna? Does it stay on one frequency or hop around?
> 
> --
> Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
> Disinformation Analyst
>
I'm told that they do Kris, although I've never been inside any of the sites
to see for myself. Given the amount of effort that the pager operator has
put in to this effort, I'm inclinded to take him at his word. Even if they
did not, I'm having a hard time believe that 3 transmitters in 3 different
locations would produce the same issue. (Of course, stranger things have
happened.)

The transmitters all stay on 462.775.

Mike



 

  _  

Meet local singles online. Browse
  profiles for FREE! 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Barry]

So has anyone conducted tests to determine if it is a mixing problem ?
 sig gen and proximity ?

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: mwbese...@cox.net
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:28:41 +
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited


















 



  



  
  
  



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kris Kirby  wrote:

>

> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:

> > The issue disappeared over the winter months.  If it's a hot, sunny 

> > day you can be sure the problem will be present.  A hot, cloudy day is 

> > also a fairly good bet.  Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out.  

> > Cool and cloudy or cold and sunny do not allow the problem to 

> > manifest.  The issue has been present during and after several days of 

> > rain, so that seems to eliminate the 'rusty bolt' syndrome.  I tend to 

> > believe it's an amplifier mounted on a pole or tower someplace that's 

> > going spurious with heat, but that is just a theory.  Beam headings 

> > tend to point to the paging transmitters rather than the possible 

> > mixing source, which is baffling me as well.

> 

> Does the paging transmitter have a circulator, or a bandpass cavity 

> between it and the antenna? Does it stay on one frequency or hop around?

> 

> --

> Kris Kirby, KE4AHR

> Disinformation Analyst

>

I'm told that they do Kris, although I've never been inside any of the sites to 
see for myself.  Given the amount of effort that the pager operator has put in 
to this effort, I'm inclinded to take him at his word.  Even if they did not, 
I'm having a hard time believe that 3 transmitters in 3 different locations 
would produce the same issue.  (Of course, stranger things have happened.)



The transmitters all stay on 462.775.



Mike







 









  
_
Browse profiles for FREE! Meet local singles online.
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kris Kirby  wrote:
>
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
> > The issue disappeared over the winter months.  If it's a hot, sunny 
> > day you can be sure the problem will be present.  A hot, cloudy day is 
> > also a fairly good bet.  Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out.  
> > Cool and cloudy or cold and sunny do not allow the problem to 
> > manifest.  The issue has been present during and after several days of 
> > rain, so that seems to eliminate the 'rusty bolt' syndrome.  I tend to 
> > believe it's an amplifier mounted on a pole or tower someplace that's 
> > going spurious with heat, but that is just a theory.  Beam headings 
> > tend to point to the paging transmitters rather than the possible 
> > mixing source, which is baffling me as well.
> 
> Does the paging transmitter have a circulator, or a bandpass cavity 
> between it and the antenna? Does it stay on one frequency or hop around?
> 
> --
> Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
> Disinformation Analyst
>
I'm told that they do Kris, although I've never been inside any of the sites to 
see for myself.  Given the amount of effort that the pager operator has put in 
to this effort, I'm inclinded to take him at his word.  Even if they did not, 
I'm having a hard time believe that 3 transmitters in 3 different locations 
would produce the same issue.  (Of course, stranger things have happened.)

The transmitters all stay on 462.775.

Mike

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

[Kris Kirby]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
> The issue disappeared over the winter months.  If it's a hot, sunny 
> day you can be sure the problem will be present.  A hot, cloudy day is 
> also a fairly good bet.  Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out.  
> Cool and cloudy or cold and sunny do not allow the problem to 
> manifest.  The issue has been present during and after several days of 
> rain, so that seems to eliminate the 'rusty bolt' syndrome.  I tend to 
> believe it's an amplifier mounted on a pole or tower someplace that's 
> going spurious with heat, but that is just a theory.  Beam headings 
> tend to point to the paging transmitters rather than the possible 
> mixing source, which is baffling me as well.

Does the paging transmitter have a circulator, or a bandpass cavity 
between it and the antenna? Does it stay on one frequency or hop around?

--
Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
Disinformation Analyst

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

[Chuck Kelsey]

This kind of problem can come from pretty large distances.

One I was involved with ended up being a paging PA spur landing on my repeater 
input - that was 15 miles away.

Another was a control station that the PA generated spurs induced by a 
commercial FM station that was a mile from it. That spur ended up on our work 
repeater output and we were 20 miles from that source.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:09 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited





  That's one I hadn't thought of, Chuck.  Definitely be a bugger to find!

   

  Mike

  WM4B

   

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:57 PM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

   



  Since it sounds like the "problem" is there continuously (with the correct 
  WX conditions) it pretty much rules out another TX that is less than 
  continuously "on."

  My very first thought was a TV antenna preamp. I've seen those generate a 
  lot of crap before. The paging may be mixing at the preamp.

  Just a thought.

  Chuck
  WB2EDV

  - Original Message - 
  From: "Mike Besemer (WM4B)" 
  To: 
  Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:08 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

  > This is a continuation of the repeater interference issue we started to 
  > have
  > last October. Maybe with a few new pieces of data, it'll spur some new
  > thoughts.
  >
  > Background:
  >
  > Last October, our repeater (146.850 MHz) started experiencing pager
  > interference. The interference can be clearly heard on the input from
  > various diverse locations around town. Most of the time, the interference
  > seems to drift across the receiver passband (you can hear it coming and
  > going as it drifts through), although this year it seems pretty much stuck
  > in the repeater input (don't hear the drifting anymore).
  >
  > Last year, the interference was also heard on a couple of other area
  > repeaters, 145.43 in Macon (15 or so air miles away) and 145.11 in Cochran
  > (20 air miles away), so you can see that whatever this is covering a 
  > pretty
  > large portion of the spectrum. I've also been told that it's been heard 
  > on
  > public-service frequencies as well, although I don't know what those
  > frequencies are (exactly) and have never witnessed it myself. Yesterday,
  > the interference moved from the input of 146.85 to the input of 145.11 in 
  > a
  > very rapid manner. a period of 5 minutes or so, and then reversed itself a
  > couple of hours later.
  >
  > We know that the paging interference is coming from 462.775 MHz. The 
  > paging
  > company owner is a ham and has been very helpful. The interference can 
  > come
  > from any one of three different sites, one locally, one in Macon and one 
  > in
  > Roberta (about 25 air miles away), all on the same frequency. He has set 
  > up
  > a phone number that I can call and leave a voice page on the local system,
  > which help us with the tracking immensely. I believe he's going to do the
  > same for the other two systems.
  >
  > I've sat very near his system locally and heard NOTHING on the repeater
  > input while the interference event is occurring. I've also checked all 
  > the
  > likely mixing products as well as frequencies in his multiplier chain and
  > heard nothing.
  >
  > We feel certain that it's got to be a mixing issue, (it's not likely he 
  > has
  > three transmitters with the same garbage on the output) but given the way 
  > it
  > behaves it's hard to locate the source. The large, rapid frequency
  > excursions are a bit baffling. If you just consider 462.775 and 146.25, 
  > it
  > puts you very near the audio carrier of CATV Channel 39, but seeing it 
  > move
  > to the input of 145.11 and 145.43 puts the possible mix frequency 
  > somewhere
  > between Channel 39 and Channel 40.
  >
  > The issue disappeared over the winter months. If it's a hot, sunny day 
  > you
  > can be sure the problem will be present. A hot, cloudy day is also a 
  > fairly
  > good bet. Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out. Cool and cloudy 
  > or
  > cold and sunny do not allow the problem to manifest. The issue has been
  > present during and after several days of rain, so that seems to eliminate
  > the 'rusty bolt' syndrome. I tend to believe it's an amplifier mounted on 
  > a
  > pole or tower someplace that's going spurious with heat, but that is just 
  > a
  > theory. Beam headings tend to point to the paging transmitters rather 
  > than
  > the possible mixing source, which is baffling me as well.
  >
  > I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but all the back and
  > forth ideas we've all been working on never seem t

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

That's one I hadn't thought of, Chuck.  Definitely be a bugger to find!

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:57 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

 

  

Since it sounds like the "problem" is there continuously (with the correct 
WX conditions) it pretty much rules out another TX that is less than 
continuously "on."

My very first thought was a TV antenna preamp. I've seen those generate a 
lot of crap before. The paging may be mixing at the preamp.

Just a thought.

Chuck
WB2EDV

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Besemer (WM4B)" mailto:mwbesemer%40cox.net>
>
To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

> This is a continuation of the repeater interference issue we started to 
> have
> last October. Maybe with a few new pieces of data, it'll spur some new
> thoughts.
>
> Background:
>
> Last October, our repeater (146.850 MHz) started experiencing pager
> interference. The interference can be clearly heard on the input from
> various diverse locations around town. Most of the time, the interference
> seems to drift across the receiver passband (you can hear it coming and
> going as it drifts through), although this year it seems pretty much stuck
> in the repeater input (don't hear the drifting anymore).
>
> Last year, the interference was also heard on a couple of other area
> repeaters, 145.43 in Macon (15 or so air miles away) and 145.11 in Cochran
> (20 air miles away), so you can see that whatever this is covering a 
> pretty
> large portion of the spectrum. I've also been told that it's been heard 
> on
> public-service frequencies as well, although I don't know what those
> frequencies are (exactly) and have never witnessed it myself. Yesterday,
> the interference moved from the input of 146.85 to the input of 145.11 in 
> a
> very rapid manner. a period of 5 minutes or so, and then reversed itself a
> couple of hours later.
>
> We know that the paging interference is coming from 462.775 MHz. The 
> paging
> company owner is a ham and has been very helpful. The interference can 
> come
> from any one of three different sites, one locally, one in Macon and one 
> in
> Roberta (about 25 air miles away), all on the same frequency. He has set 
> up
> a phone number that I can call and leave a voice page on the local system,
> which help us with the tracking immensely. I believe he's going to do the
> same for the other two systems.
>
> I've sat very near his system locally and heard NOTHING on the repeater
> input while the interference event is occurring. I've also checked all 
> the
> likely mixing products as well as frequencies in his multiplier chain and
> heard nothing.
>
> We feel certain that it's got to be a mixing issue, (it's not likely he 
> has
> three transmitters with the same garbage on the output) but given the way 
> it
> behaves it's hard to locate the source. The large, rapid frequency
> excursions are a bit baffling. If you just consider 462.775 and 146.25, 
> it
> puts you very near the audio carrier of CATV Channel 39, but seeing it 
> move
> to the input of 145.11 and 145.43 puts the possible mix frequency 
> somewhere
> between Channel 39 and Channel 40.
>
> The issue disappeared over the winter months. If it's a hot, sunny day 
> you
> can be sure the problem will be present. A hot, cloudy day is also a 
> fairly
> good bet. Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out. Cool and cloudy 
> or
> cold and sunny do not allow the problem to manifest. The issue has been
> present during and after several days of rain, so that seems to eliminate
> the 'rusty bolt' syndrome. I tend to believe it's an amplifier mounted on 
> a
> pole or tower someplace that's going spurious with heat, but that is just 
> a
> theory. Beam headings tend to point to the paging transmitters rather 
> than
> the possible mixing source, which is baffling me as well.
>
> I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but all the back and
> forth ideas we've all been working on never seem to answer all of the
> questions.
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> 73,
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

[Chuck Kelsey]

Since it sounds like the "problem" is there continuously (with the correct 
WX conditions) it pretty much rules out another TX that is less than 
continuously "on."

My very first thought was a TV antenna preamp. I've seen those generate a 
lot of crap before. The paging may be mixing at the preamp.

Just a thought.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Besemer (WM4B)" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited


> This is a continuation of the repeater interference issue we started to 
> have
> last October.  Maybe with a few new pieces of data, it'll spur some new
> thoughts.
>
> Background:
>
> Last October, our repeater (146.850 MHz) started experiencing pager
> interference.  The interference can be clearly heard on the input from
> various diverse locations around town.  Most of the time, the interference
> seems to drift across the receiver passband (you can hear it coming and
> going as it drifts through), although this year it seems pretty much stuck
> in the repeater input (don't hear the drifting anymore).
>
> Last year, the interference was also heard on a couple of other area
> repeaters, 145.43 in Macon (15 or so air miles away) and 145.11 in Cochran
> (20 air miles away), so you can see that whatever this is covering a 
> pretty
> large portion of the spectrum.  I've also been told that it's been heard 
> on
> public-service frequencies as well, although I don't know what those
> frequencies are (exactly) and have never witnessed it myself.  Yesterday,
> the interference moved from the input of 146.85 to the input of 145.11 in 
> a
> very rapid manner. a period of 5 minutes or so, and then reversed itself a
> couple of hours later.
>
> We know that the paging interference is coming from 462.775 MHz.  The 
> paging
> company owner is a ham and has been very helpful.  The interference can 
> come
> from any one of three different sites, one locally, one in Macon and one 
> in
> Roberta (about 25 air miles away), all on the same frequency.  He has set 
> up
> a phone number that I can call and leave a voice page on the local system,
> which help us with the tracking immensely.  I believe he's going to do the
> same for the other two systems.
>
> I've sat very near his system locally and heard NOTHING on the repeater
> input while the interference event is occurring.  I've also checked all 
> the
> likely mixing products as well as frequencies in his multiplier chain and
> heard nothing.
>
> We feel certain that it's got to be a mixing issue, (it's not likely he 
> has
> three transmitters with the same garbage on the output) but given the way 
> it
> behaves it's hard to locate the source.  The large, rapid frequency
> excursions are a bit baffling.  If you just consider 462.775 and 146.25, 
> it
> puts you very near the audio carrier of CATV Channel 39, but seeing it 
> move
> to the input of 145.11 and 145.43 puts the possible mix frequency 
> somewhere
> between Channel 39 and Channel 40.
>
> The issue disappeared over the winter months.  If it's a hot, sunny day 
> you
> can be sure the problem will be present.  A hot, cloudy day is also a 
> fairly
> good bet.  Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out.  Cool and cloudy 
> or
> cold and sunny do not allow the problem to manifest.  The issue has been
> present during and after several days of rain, so that seems to eliminate
> the 'rusty bolt' syndrome.  I tend to believe it's an amplifier mounted on 
> a
> pole or tower someplace that's going spurious with heat, but that is just 
> a
> theory.  Beam headings tend to point to the paging transmitters rather 
> than
> the possible mixing source, which is baffling me as well.
>
> I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but all the back and
> forth ideas we've all been working on never seem to answer all of the
> questions.
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> 73,
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference Revisited

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

This is a continuation of the repeater interference issue we started to have
last October.  Maybe with a few new pieces of data, it'll spur some new
thoughts.

Background:  

Last October, our repeater (146.850 MHz) started experiencing pager
interference.  The interference can be clearly heard on the input from
various diverse locations around town.  Most of the time, the interference
seems to drift across the receiver passband (you can hear it coming and
going as it drifts through), although this year it seems pretty much stuck
in the repeater input (don't hear the drifting anymore).  

Last year, the interference was also heard on a couple of other area
repeaters, 145.43 in Macon (15 or so air miles away) and 145.11 in Cochran
(20 air miles away), so you can see that whatever this is covering a pretty
large portion of the spectrum.  I've also been told that it's been heard on
public-service frequencies as well, although I don't know what those
frequencies are (exactly) and have never witnessed it myself.  Yesterday,
the interference moved from the input of 146.85 to the input of 145.11 in a
very rapid manner. a period of 5 minutes or so, and then reversed itself a
couple of hours later.

We know that the paging interference is coming from 462.775 MHz.  The paging
company owner is a ham and has been very helpful.  The interference can come
from any one of three different sites, one locally, one in Macon and one in
Roberta (about 25 air miles away), all on the same frequency.  He has set up
a phone number that I can call and leave a voice page on the local system,
which help us with the tracking immensely.  I believe he's going to do the
same for the other two systems. 

I've sat very near his system locally and heard NOTHING on the repeater
input while the interference event is occurring.  I've also checked all the
likely mixing products as well as frequencies in his multiplier chain and
heard nothing.  

We feel certain that it's got to be a mixing issue, (it's not likely he has
three transmitters with the same garbage on the output) but given the way it
behaves it's hard to locate the source.  The large, rapid frequency
excursions are a bit baffling.  If you just consider 462.775 and 146.25, it
puts you very near the audio carrier of CATV Channel 39, but seeing it move
to the input of 145.11 and 145.43 puts the possible mix frequency somewhere
between Channel 39 and Channel 40.

The issue disappeared over the winter months.  If it's a hot, sunny day you
can be sure the problem will be present.  A hot, cloudy day is also a fairly
good bet.  Also, a cooler, sunny day will bring it out.  Cool and cloudy or
cold and sunny do not allow the problem to manifest.  The issue has been
present during and after several days of rain, so that seems to eliminate
the 'rusty bolt' syndrome.  I tend to believe it's an amplifier mounted on a
pole or tower someplace that's going spurious with heat, but that is just a
theory.  Beam headings tend to point to the paging transmitters rather than
the possible mixing source, which is baffling me as well.

I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but all the back and
forth ideas we've all been working on never seem to answer all of the
questions.

What do you guys think?

73,

Mike
WM4B  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Maxtrac Channel Control

[Leroy A. M. Baptiste]

Hi there Steve, I have made quite a bit of
progress with remote controlling the PRO5100 for
three channels. Do you or anyone in this group had
any experience in remotintg the Motorola PRO3100.
Grounding the channel change outputs in the
auxillary plug just make the channel light
flashing.
Steve give me your E Mail address please. 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Leroy A. M. Baptiste
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:37 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Maxtrac
Channel Control

  

Hey Steve, thanks for all your valuable
information. I am still working on my project, I
am using a CAT controller to give me the earth for
Channel select on the Motorola Radio from a remote
DTMF command, I will let you know how it works
out. Do you have a private E Mail address or phone
number?

Leroy J39AI.

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
[mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 ] On
Behalf Of kd8biw
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:47 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Maxtrac Channel
Control

Leroy,

Here is the file I received, and what I plan on
doing...

Our controller give us a "hex" output via 4 output
pins. These 4 pins
will be connected to pins 6,8,9, and 12 on the
Gm300. This will give us
selection of 9 of the 16 channels, enough for our
needs! This will
allow us to link to the primary 2M repeater in OUR
county, plus 1 in
each of the 7 surrounding counties, plus 1 simplex
channel. Remember,
you will need at least 2 pins grounded to make a
channel, so some of the
hex outputs will not work. When the correct DTMF
access code is
entered, followed by a number or letter, it
translates it into hex and
outputs it via the 5 pins, and latches that way.
Even if power is lost,
it will revert to the last know state. We will be
using this to "steer"
the GM300 via the drawing in the .pdf file I
uploaded in the files
section, look for the "ch-sel" file. I will
program the GM300 and make
a list of how to use it and distribute to the
users. For example,
entering the correct DTMF acces code, followed by
a "3" would give you
an output of "0011" in hex. This equates to
channel 12 on the GM300. 
Here is how it all works out. It's not perfect,
but I have an older
controller that does not support direct control of
radios, and it gives
me control of 9 channels, more than enough for my
needs!

DTMF Digit Hex Output GM300 Channel

0  1 (all outputs off, reverts
to front panel control, which would be set to Ch1,
the "home" channel)
3 0011 12
5 0101 10
6 0110 6
7 0111 14
9 1001 9
A 1010 5
B 1011 13
C 1100 3

Hope this is what you were looking for. Any
questions, shoot them my
way!

Steve KD8BIW

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
 ,
"Leroy A. M. Baptiste"
 wrote:
>
> Hey Steve, what did you find out? I am also
> interested in a system like that.
>
> Leroy. J39AI
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
 
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
 ] On
> Behalf Of kd8biw
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:01 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Maxtrac Channel
> Control
>
>
>
> Thanks for the informaiton everyone! I think I
got
> what I needed to make this work. The site is
> pretty empty as far a repeaters go, 2 UHF, 1
VHF,
> and a 220. Will make sure I don't interfer with
> anything, but I only need 2 or 3 channels on the
> radio. Thanks everyone for the replies and
> information!
>
> Steve KD8BIW
>
> KD8BIW/R 224.580
> N8IHI/R 147.105
> W3YXS/R 146.745
> KD8JBF/R 444.325
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
 
>  ,
> "kd8biw" kd8biw@ wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Wondering if anyone has been able to implement
a
> Motorola Maxtrac as a "frequency agile" remote
> base on a repeater. What I would like to do is
> have a 16 channel VHF mobile hooked to our
> repeater, and be able to select a channel at
will.
> I'm sure it can be done, i'm just overlooking
> something here. Our controller has a 4 pin hex
> output that I think could do the necessary stuff
> to make it work, just not sure about how it
needs
> hooked to the radio. Has anyone done something
> similiar to this? I was looking at NO6B's RBI,
and
> that would fit the bill, just wondering if I
co

[Repeater-Builder] frequency listing and montioring site chicago area

[Ted Bleiman K9MDM - MDM Radio]

don't forget www.carmachicago.com for
monitoring and freq lists for the Chicago area.
 

Ted Bleiman K9MDM

MDM Radio     "If its in stock...we've got it!"

P O Box 31353  - Chicago ,IL 60631-0353

 Phone 773. 255. 9838  fax 773.775.8096
see our offerings on
www.twowayshopper.com
www.secondhandradio.com




  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 antenna question.

[Chuck Kelsey]

Added comment...

I have seen variations on element lengths and harness designs over the 
years. For some reason Decibel made changes here and there. One note I have 
states that for the ham cut, the dipoles are 18.5" from tip to center of 
element boom (both ends being the same length), or 37" overall tip to tip 
length.

Chuck
WB2EDV




- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Kelsey" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 antenna question.


>I believe that it's because the center conductor at the feedpoint (where it
> attaches) becomes part of the length for the upper portion of the element.
>
> Your real challenge may be the feed harness. You may need to construct a 
> new
> one, unless you get lucky.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "NORM KNAPP" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:18 AM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 antenna question.
>
>
>> Hi group.
>> I am working on some db224a folded dipole elements. I have cut them and
>> have added smaller tubing inside in order to make them longer for proper
>> resonance on 2m. I have measured several factory dipoles and have noticed
>> that the length from the bend of the loop to the support tube on the feed
>> side is shorter than the closed/non-feed side. Why is this? Is there a
>> ratio I need to know about?
>> As soon as I get the proper lengths figured out, I am going to weld
>> everything in place.
>> Thanks es 73m
>> Norm
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2831 - Release Date: 04/23/10
> 14:31:00
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2832 - Release Date: 04/24/10 
02:31:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 antenna question.

[Chuck Kelsey]

I believe that it's because the center conductor at the feedpoint (where it 
attaches) becomes part of the length for the upper portion of the element.

Your real challenge may be the feed harness. You may need to construct a new 
one, unless you get lucky.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "NORM KNAPP" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:18 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 antenna question.


> Hi group.
> I am working on some db224a folded dipole elements. I have cut them and 
> have added smaller tubing inside in order to make them longer for proper 
> resonance on 2m. I have measured several factory dipoles and have noticed 
> that the length from the bend of the loop to the support tube on the feed 
> side is shorter than the closed/non-feed side. Why is this? Is there a 
> ratio I need to know about?
> As soon as I get the proper lengths figured out, I am going to weld 
> everything in place.
> Thanks es 73m
> Norm
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2831 - Release Date: 04/23/10 
14:31:00

[Repeater-Builder] DB224 antenna question.

[NORM KNAPP]

Hi group.
I am working on some db224a folded dipole elements. I have cut them and have 
added smaller tubing inside in order to make them longer for proper resonance 
on 2m. I have measured several factory dipoles and have noticed that the length 
from the bend of the loop to the support tube on the feed side is shorter than 
the closed/non-feed side. Why is this? Is there a ratio I need to know about?
As soon as I get the proper lengths figured out, I am going to weld everything 
in place.
Thanks es 73m
Norm

[Repeater-Builder] Charlotte, NC information

[JOHN MACKEY]

Is there anyone in the Charlotte, NC area who could help me with some
non-radio information about the area?

My e-mail is jmac...@usa.net

thanks