Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?
i compared it to a telex hy-gain 8 element vertically polarized of course... I dont remember the exact model number but it was the one with the delta match coax stub. I have probalby the same antenna up horizontal that I use for ssb on the low end of 2 meters. Don't remember the name either as it was given to me years ago. I did replace the coax stub a while back. Unless your antenna is used on the low end of the band it may be that the antenna was designed for the low end and is not very efficiant at the high end. When you said almost the same signal, I keep forgetting that on FM several DB is not really that much in signal. de KU4PT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?
I have 3 diamond hnaX510's and consistantly can reach about 75-100 miles in every direction with the antenna about 30 foot to the bottom of it, (roof mounted) I compared it to a 8 element beam and it was almost the same signal strength as the beam except it worked in all directions. I have never had one come loose in the sections or burn up. I regularly run 70 watts max. I am in richmond and can hear repeaters in MD and WV. I duplexed mine on 441-446 split at about 20 watts without problems. cant hurt to try it. George KF7NN - Original Message - From: Derek B. McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:17 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use? I normally do not use ham antennas, especially cheap dual banders such as Diamond or Comet for duplex/repeater use but a situation has come up where a dual band antenna may be most convenient. I have acquired a Diamond X-500 which claims 8.3 dB on 144-148 MHz and 11.5 dB on 440-450 MHz. The antenna is just over 17 feet tall, making the gain claims ridiculous.. My guess is it's rated in dBi, therefore, the claim may be a little closer to realistic.. 5 dBd on 2M and 8 dBd on 440 is my guess.. The power rating says 200 watts. I once saw a Comet GP-6 whose power rating also said 200 watts but in the fine print, I saw the PEP rating beside it.. it was rated in SSB, which of course, we normally do not use vertical antennas for SSB in those portions on the ham band. We smoked a disc capacitor in the antenna running 100 watts FM into it (combined)... Has anyone pumped more than 100 watts FM combined into a Diamond dual bander without it smoking the matching network? I have heard people say that running dual banders in duplex mode on both band can cause broadband noise, intermond, etc, often causing either severe duplex noise or desence on the repeater unput. I have often wondered has anyone had experience with these types of problems. I have assembled the array and it feels like a wet noodle stick, pretty flimsey, but is rated at 90 MPH.. Some people say the joints work loose inside the antenna. Who can relate to this? I am used to working with Stationmasters, DB-224's, DB-420's, Celwave PD-340's, and so on for repeater use. However, the tower mount I have will not support any of these and we need to run a 2M and a 440 repeater on one antenna if possible. I am looking for overall performance opinions on the Diamond X-500 for serious repeater use and if there's a better dual bander out there with relatively high gain, tell me what it is. I'll be running about 60 watts on VHF and 75 watts UHF into the antenna (after feedline losses).. Thanks, Derek KC4FWC http://www.w4dex.com/kc4fwc/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?]
Good morning all.. Our Assoc. (www.n4nw.org) runs the X500's on both of our sites. I have done the dis-assemble, and reliability mods discussed earlier. Both antennas have been up for over two years with no problems. I strongly suggest the upper support arm. We found that on windy days the bending of the antenna, combined with the sharp nulls inherent to a high gain collinear to cause a noticeable flutter. For example... when travelling north toward Washington, DC with a strong North wind... the range of the machine was cut substantially. I suggest a piece of fiberglass rod or tube... the PVC idea only lasted through two winters before we had to retrieve the broken remains. Even without the top brace... the antenna did remarkably well, even through hurricane Isabel at over 300' hagl. I would prefer DB dipoles... but the Assoc. treasurer wouldn't allow me to decimate our funds, not to mention I had 24 hrs to find a solution... thank goodness that HRO was local!!! Good luck and let us know how it goes... Mike At 01:23 AM 12/22/2003 -0600, you wrote: Derek B. McIntyre wrote: SNIP I have acquired a Diamond X-500 which claims 8.3 dB on 144-148 MHz and 11.5 dB on 440-450 MHz. The antenna is just over 17 feet tall, making the gain claims ridiculous.. My guess is it's rated in dBi, therefore, the claim may be a little closer to realistic.. 5 dBd on 2M and 8 dBd on 440 is my guess.. SNIP I think your guess is probably much closer to the truth. I have heard people say that running dual banders in duplex mode on both band can cause broadband noise, intermond, etc, often causing either severe duplex noise or desence on the repeater unput. I have often wondered has anyone had experience with these types of problems. I doubt that is true. I have 2 sites where I run the Comet GP-15 440/2m/6m antenna on repeaters for 2 meters 440 Mhz. 75 watts out of the 2 meter duplexer 45 watts out of the 440 duplexer thru about 60 feet of 7/8 heliax has performed well for years. As with any good installation, use QUALITY receivers transmitters, QUALITY jumpers (like RG-214), and good pass/reject duplexers. I have been able to make these systems work WITH ARR GaAsFET pre-amps!!! (If there was a noise or intermod problem, the pre-amps wouldn't be working!!) Be prepared to put a pass can with sharp skirts on the receive side output of your duplexer. NOTE a quality receiver and transmitter basically dis-qualifies the following: Icom, Yeasu, Standard, Uniden, Kenwood, Motorola GM-300, Azden, Alinco. The following would be considered quality: GE Mastr Pro, GE Mastr II, GE Mastr Exec II (NOT the original Exec), GE Mastr III, Motorola Motrac, Motorola Micor, Motorola MSR. I have assembled the array and it feels like a wet noodle stick, pretty flimsey, but is rated at 90 MPH.. Some people say the joints work loose inside the antenna. Who can relate to this? I always pull my systems Comet antennas apart solder the connections. Better yet, forget the Comet Diamond antennas that have connections in the antenna. Get the Comet GP-15 from HRO for a little over $100, it is a one piece antenna (no connections) and has worked very well for me. Actually, it is best NOT to use Comet or Diamond antennas. But sometimes the situation dictates that you must. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Mike PerrymanCavell, Mertz Davis, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Consulting Engineers http://www.cmdconsulting.com 7839 Ashton Avenue K5JMPManassas, VA 20109 USA (703) 392-9090; (703) 392-9559 fax; DC Line (202) 332-0110 - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?]
Hello, For my own repeaters,I use only professionnal antennas.Here,in France it's easy to find in some flea markets or from a friend old professionnal antennas.Depending of the origin,it cost from a french wine bottle to about 60 Euros. The main reasons,except cheaper price,for the use of this type of antenna are the followings: -It's invisible on a tower.Nobody knows if it's amateur or professionnal. -I know the real characteristic of this antenna(real gain,max. power,beamwidth in E and H,SWR,IMD...).Amateur antennas are not characterized. -Quality of components(fiberglass,stainless steel) and reliability . -Beamwidth are easy to modify if you get dipoles or panels of dipoles. -Mast mountings are in wide diameter. I use to install Kathrein(the best),Mat equipement,Sinclair,Sigma antennas. Good luck for your installation. 73 Laurent F1NFY - Original Message - From: Mike Perryman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?] Good morning all.. Our Assoc. (www.n4nw.org) runs the X500's on both of our sites. I have done the dis-assemble, and reliability mods discussed earlier. Both antennas have been up for over two years with no problems. I strongly suggest the upper support arm. We found that on windy days the bending of the antenna, combined with the sharp nulls inherent to a high gain collinear to cause a noticeable flutter. For example... when travelling north toward Washington, DC with a strong North wind... the range of the machine was cut substantially. I suggest a piece of fiberglass rod or tube... the PVC idea only lasted through two winters before we had to retrieve the broken remains. Even without the top brace... the antenna did remarkably well, even through hurricane Isabel at over 300' hagl. I would prefer DB dipoles... but the Assoc. treasurer wouldn't allow me to decimate our funds, not to mention I had 24 hrs to find a solution... thank goodness that HRO was local!!! Good luck and let us know how it goes... Mike At 01:23 AM 12/22/2003 -0600, you wrote: Derek B. McIntyre wrote: SNIP I have acquired a Diamond X-500 which claims 8.3 dB on 144-148 MHz and 11.5 dB on 440-450 MHz. The antenna is just over 17 feet tall, making the gain claims ridiculous.. My guess is it's rated in dBi, therefore, the claim may be a little closer to realistic.. 5 dBd on 2M and 8 dBd on 440 is my guess.. SNIP I think your guess is probably much closer to the truth. I have heard people say that running dual banders in duplex mode on both band can cause broadband noise, intermond, etc, often causing either severe duplex noise or desence on the repeater unput. I have often wondered has anyone had experience with these types of problems. I doubt that is true. I have 2 sites where I run the Comet GP-15 440/2m/6m antenna on repeaters for 2 meters 440 Mhz. 75 watts out of the 2 meter duplexer 45 watts out of the 440 duplexer thru about 60 feet of 7/8 heliax has performed well for years. As with any good installation, use QUALITY receivers transmitters, QUALITY jumpers (like RG-214), and good pass/reject duplexers. I have been able to make these systems work WITH ARR GaAsFET pre-amps!!! (If there was a noise or intermod problem, the pre-amps wouldn't be working!!) Be prepared to put a pass can with sharp skirts on the receive side output of your duplexer. NOTE a quality receiver and transmitter basically dis-qualifies the following: Icom, Yeasu, Standard, Uniden, Kenwood, Motorola GM-300, Azden, Alinco. The following would be considered quality: GE Mastr Pro, GE Mastr II, GE Mastr Exec II (NOT the original Exec), GE Mastr III, Motorola Motrac, Motorola Micor, Motorola MSR. I have assembled the array and it feels like a wet noodle stick, pretty flimsey, but is rated at 90 MPH.. Some people say the joints work loose inside the antenna. Who can relate to this? I always pull my systems Comet antennas apart solder the connections. Better yet, forget the Comet Diamond antennas that have connections in the antenna. Get the Comet GP-15 from HRO for a little over $100, it is a one piece antenna (no connections) and has worked very well for me. Actually, it is best NOT to use Comet or Diamond antennas. But sometimes the situation dictates that you must. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Mike PerrymanCavell, Mertz Davis, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Consulting Engineers http://www.cmdconsulting.com 7839
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?
I have 3 diamond hnaX510's and consistantly can reach about 75-100 miles in every direction with the antenna about 30 foot to the bottom of it, (roof mounted) I compared it to a 8 element beam and it was almost the same signal strength as the beam except it worked in all directions. Sounds like you need to throw the beam away and get a good beam... Sort of like the old Chris Craft 11 element beams were not hitting on much. A deacent colinear would usually match them. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?
i compared it to a telex hy-gain 8 element vertically polarized of course... I dont remember the exact model number but it was the one with the delta match coax stub. - Original Message - From: Ralph Mowery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use? I have 3 diamond hnaX510's and consistantly can reach about 75-100 miles in every direction with the antenna about 30 foot to the bottom of it, (roof mounted) I compared it to a 8 element beam and it was almost the same signal strength as the beam except it worked in all directions. Sounds like you need to throw the beam away and get a good beam... Sort of like the old Chris Craft 11 element beams were not hitting on much. A deacent colinear would usually match them. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?
Well you have seen the obvious weaker mechanical construction which can still work well with a side arm made from sch80 electrical pvc tubing, however the power is combined power not per band but you should still have survived if the antenna was held rigid and you were sure it was dry inside. I reworked one of these that came out of service and found a 2pf cap in the base which was very corroded with green slime, copper oxide - I replaced the capacitor using silver bearing plumbers solder, and continued thru the antenna resoldering everything and cleaning the joints as they cooled - then fabricated spiders from rg-213 dielectric as the foam installed by diamond was holding a lot of moisture - the antenna went onto a 120 foot tower with a side arm and about 2/3 up another brace and is being used today. I would be cautious of overpowering the antenna, the club that uses it has a 25 watt uhf and 50 watt 2 mtr machine going into it, with your power levels it should but for how long? The innermod game is just part of operating a repeater in a high rf environment, we all find it and find ways to filter it out - I doubt if any glass antenna will work better than another unless single band, it seems the shunt to ground antennas are less prone to innermod, but they can only shunt one band at a time. Derek B. McIntyre wrote: I normally do not use ham antennas, especially cheap dual banders such as Diamond or Comet for duplex/repeater use but a situation has come up where a dual band antenna may be most convenient. I have acquired a Diamond X-500 which claims 8.3 dB on 144-148 MHz and 11.5 dB on 440-450 MHz. The antenna is just over 17 feet tall, making the gain claims ridiculous.. My guess is it's rated in dBi, therefore, the claim may be a little closer to realistic.. 5 dBd on 2M and 8 dBd on 440 is my guess.. The power rating says 200 watts. I once saw a Comet GP-6 whose power rating also said 200 watts but in the fine print, I saw the PEP rating beside it.. it was rated in SSB, which of course, we normally do not use vertical antennas for SSB in those portions on the ham band. We smoked a disc capacitor in the antenna running 100 watts FM into it (combined)... Has anyone pumped more than 100 watts FM combined into a Diamond dual bander without it smoking the matching network? I have heard people say that running dual banders in duplex mode on both band can cause broadband noise, intermond, etc, often causing either severe duplex noise or desence on the repeater unput. I have often wondered has anyone had experience with these types of problems. I have assembled the array and it feels like a wet noodle stick, pretty flimsey, but is rated at 90 MPH.. Some people say the joints work loose inside the antenna. Who can relate to this? I am used to working with Stationmasters, DB-224's, DB-420's, Celwave PD-340's, and so on for repeater use. However, the tower mount I have will not support any of these and we need to run a 2M and a 440 repeater on one antenna if possible. I am looking for overall performance opinions on the Diamond X-500 for serious repeater use and if there's a better dual bander out there with relatively high gain, tell me what it is. I'll be running about 60 watts on VHF and 75 watts UHF into the antenna (after feedline losses).. Thanks, Derek KC4FWC http://www.w4dex.com/kc4fwc/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Pursuant to U.S. Code, title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, ß227, Any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee of $500.00 U.S.. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?
Derek B. McIntyre wrote: I have acquired a Diamond X-500 which claims 8.3 dB on 144-148 MHz and 11.5 dB on 440-450 MHz. The antenna is just over 17 feet tall, making the gain claims ridiculous.. My guess is it's rated in dBi, therefore, the claim may be a little closer to realistic.. 5 dBd on 2M and 8 dBd on 440 is my guess.. That would be my estimate, too. I have assembled the array and it feels like a wet noodle stick, pretty flimsey, but is rated at 90 MPH.. I would consider the gain and ERP ratings and de-rate comparably. Like, a 90 MPH wind if the antenna is on a mobile going 60 MPH in the same direction. ;- Some people say the joints work loose inside the antenna. Who can relate to this? I haven't heard about that, but I have heard that additional weatherproofing is required with the ham-rated antennas. I am looking for overall performance opinions on the Diamond X-500 for serious repeater use and if there's a better dual bander out there with relatively high gain, tell me what it is. If you're used to the commercial units, why not stick with those? Mount the VHF and UHF dipole types on the same mast and combine the feedline with combiners/splitters from TX-RX at the bottom and the top respectively. They will hold up as well as what you're used to and obviously like. Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diamond X-500 for repeater use?]
Derek B. McIntyre wrote: SNIP I have acquired a Diamond X-500 which claims 8.3 dB on 144-148 MHz and 11.5 dB on 440-450 MHz. The antenna is just over 17 feet tall, making the gain claims ridiculous.. My guess is it's rated in dBi, therefore, the claim may be a little closer to realistic.. 5 dBd on 2M and 8 dBd on 440 is my guess.. SNIP I think your guess is probably much closer to the truth. I have heard people say that running dual banders in duplex mode on both band can cause broadband noise, intermond, etc, often causing either severe duplex noise or desence on the repeater unput. I have often wondered has anyone had experience with these types of problems. I doubt that is true. I have 2 sites where I run the Comet GP-15 440/2m/6m antenna on repeaters for 2 meters 440 Mhz. 75 watts out of the 2 meter duplexer 45 watts out of the 440 duplexer thru about 60 feet of 7/8 heliax has performed well for years. As with any good installation, use QUALITY receivers transmitters, QUALITY jumpers (like RG-214), and good pass/reject duplexers. I have been able to make these systems work WITH ARR GaAsFET pre-amps!!! (If there was a noise or intermod problem, the pre-amps wouldn't be working!!) Be prepared to put a pass can with sharp skirts on the receive side output of your duplexer. NOTE a quality receiver and transmitter basically dis-qualifies the following: Icom, Yeasu, Standard, Uniden, Kenwood, Motorola GM-300, Azden, Alinco. The following would be considered quality: GE Mastr Pro, GE Mastr II, GE Mastr Exec II (NOT the original Exec), GE Mastr III, Motorola Motrac, Motorola Micor, Motorola MSR. I have assembled the array and it feels like a wet noodle stick, pretty flimsey, but is rated at 90 MPH.. Some people say the joints work loose inside the antenna. Who can relate to this? I always pull my systems Comet antennas apart solder the connections. Better yet, forget the Comet Diamond antennas that have connections in the antenna. Get the Comet GP-15 from HRO for a little over $100, it is a one piece antenna (no connections) and has worked very well for me. Actually, it is best NOT to use Comet or Diamond antennas. But sometimes the situation dictates that you must. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
