Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?]

[JOHN MACKEY]

I know of a broadcast translator site that has a receiver on one side of the
hill and the transmitter on the SAME frequency on the opposite side of the
hill!!!

"Jim B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And some
> people have had on-channel repeaters, but it was split-site on either
> side of a REALLY BIG mountain. The two sites could not hear each other
> at all.
> -- 
> Jim Barbour
> WD8CHL






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Jim B.]

courir26 wrote:
> I have an academic question for the group (point me to a manual or 
> online reference if needed).
> 
> If one was to build a VHF repeater, say 10W transmit, two antennas 
> and no duplexer, what is the minimum frequency separation needed?
> 
> I know it depends on a lot of things, such as power, receiver front 
> end, vertical and horizontal ant sep, etc.
> 
> Any rule of thumb?
> 
> 73 tom
> 

 From a commercial standpoint, I have seen on-site repeaters operating
at 300 Khz. There are duplexers available for that amount of spearation,
but they're not cheap.
I've not seen much closer than that on-site. Split site is another
matter. With enough distance, you can go as low as 30 KHz for a normal
FM receiver, maybe 15 if you really keep an eye on deviaiton. And some
people have had on-channel repeaters, but it was split-site on either
side of a REALLY BIG mountain. The two sites could not hear each other
at all.
-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Charles Miller]

Minimum distance should be at least 90dB to 100dB signal difference. If you
have enough room on tower, and coax, 100 Feet should get you more than
enough.

Charles Miller

- Original Message - 
From: "Terry Shellman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?


> standard 600kz seems to work the best I've found.  seperate the antennas
> vertically the right distance like .5 wavelength.  Terry
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "courir26" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 8:17 AM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?
>
>
> > I have an academic question for the group (point me to a manual or
> > online reference if needed).
> >
> > If one was to build a VHF repeater, say 10W transmit, two antennas
> > and no duplexer, what is the minimum frequency separation needed?
> >
> > I know it depends on a lot of things, such as power, receiver front
> > end, vertical and horizontal ant sep, etc.
> >
> > Any rule of thumb?
> >
> > 73 tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Terry Shellman]

standard 600kz seems to work the best I've found.  seperate the antennas
vertically the right distance like .5 wavelength.  Terry

- Original Message -
From: "courir26" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 8:17 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?


> I have an academic question for the group (point me to a manual or
> online reference if needed).
>
> If one was to build a VHF repeater, say 10W transmit, two antennas
> and no duplexer, what is the minimum frequency separation needed?
>
> I know it depends on a lot of things, such as power, receiver front
> end, vertical and horizontal ant sep, etc.
>
> Any rule of thumb?
>
> 73 tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Joe Montierth]

--- courir26 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have an academic question for the group (point me
> to a manual or 
> online reference if needed).
> 
> If one was to build a VHF repeater, say 10W
> transmit, two antennas 
> and no duplexer, what is the minimum frequency
> separation needed?
> 
> I know it depends on a lot of things, such as power,
> receiver front 
> end, vertical and horizontal ant sep, etc.
>
> Any rule of thumb?
> 
> 73 tom
> 
> 


The minimum freq separation would be one channel, but
you'd have to have lots of antenna separation to make
that work effectively (like a mile horizontal). Are
you not wanting to use a 600 KHz split?

We had a commercial repeater operating on a 150 KHz
split in the 160MHz band, with about 60 ft of vertical
separation, it worked OK.

If you're talking about antenna separation, at 600 KHz
of freq separation, 50 ft vertical will give you about
65 dB of isolation. This would probably be a minimum
figure, with a good clean TX and a good tight RX
without a pre-amp. Adding a notch or BP/BR cavity to
the TX and RX line would improve things also, if it
doesn't perform well without them.

Joe





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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Q]

Thats funny,my service monitor IS calibrated in feet!
- Original Message -
From: Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?


> At 03:31 PM 4/17/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >100 feet vertical or 300 feet horizontal separation.
>
> <100 feet of frequency of separation? Hmmm, my service monitor isn't
> calibrated in feet!
>
> (sorry, couldn't resist)
>
> Ken
>
> >
> --

> President and CTO - Arcom Communications
> Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
> http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
> http://www.irlp.net
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Mike Morris]

At 03:17 PM 4/17/04 +, you wrote:

>I have an academic question for the group (point me to a manual or
>online reference if needed).
>
>If one was to build a VHF repeater, say 10W transmit, two antennas
>and no duplexer, what is the minimum frequency separation needed?
>
>I know it depends on a lot of things, such as power, receiver front
>end, vertical and horizontal ant sep, etc.
>
>Any rule of thumb?
>
>73 tom

Vertical is more effective than horizontal since increasing the vertical
moves the receiving antenna further out of the pattern than increasing
the horizontal, and using horizontal separation really increases the
feedline losses.

These may help:



Mike WA6ILQ 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Ken Arck]

At 03:31 PM 4/17/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>100 feet vertical or 300 feet horizontal separation.

<100 feet of frequency of separation? Hmmm, my service monitor isn't
calibrated in feet!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Ken

>
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[Q]

100 feet vertical or 300 feet horizontal separation.

- Original Message - 
From: courir26 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 11:17 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?


> I have an academic question for the group (point me to a manual or 
> online reference if needed).
> 
> If one was to build a VHF repeater, say 10W transmit, two antennas 
> and no duplexer, what is the minimum frequency separation needed?
> 
> I know it depends on a lot of things, such as power, receiver front 
> end, vertical and horizontal ant sep, etc.
> 
> Any rule of thumb?
> 
> 73 tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 






 
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[Repeater-Builder] Min Separation for VHF, no duplexer, 2 ants?

[courir26]

I have an academic question for the group (point me to a manual or 
online reference if needed).

If one was to build a VHF repeater, say 10W transmit, two antennas 
and no duplexer, what is the minimum frequency separation needed?

I know it depends on a lot of things, such as power, receiver front 
end, vertical and horizontal ant sep, etc.

Any rule of thumb?

73 tom








 
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