Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
You bet. My main repeater site is one that I purchased. The only one that can throw me off is my wife. LOL. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Understood Chuck. Depends on the circumstances. I know of a couple of ham groups that have traded antenna space for tower space. The tower owner gave them free space provided he could multi-couple to that antenna. The new systems at the site would be responsible for filtering. It was a win-win and the ham guys paid nothing for a PRIME location. If you own the tower and never plan to expand then it's not an issue. My only reason for bring it up was to encourage everyone to consider all the options and ensure that they will not regret the model chosen. As I am sure you are aware, attaching a big antenna to a high tower is tons of work and not something that any of us would want to repeat unless necessary. lh Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
Understood Chuck. Depends on the circumstances. I know of a couple of ham groups that have traded antenna space for tower space. The tower owner gave them free space provided he could multi-couple to that antenna. The new systems at the site would be responsible for filtering. It was a win-win and the ham guys paid nothing for a PRIME location. If you own the tower and never plan to expand then it's not an issue. My only reason for bring it up was to encourage everyone to consider all the options and ensure that they will not regret the model chosen. As I am sure you are aware, attaching a big antenna to a high tower is tons of work and not something that any of us would want to repeat unless necessary. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > > > Larry is correct. > > My own personal hope and desire is that there will NOT be other users. Call > me greedy, I suppose, but the less RF at the site, the better. > > However, the guy that posted the original question certainly needs to > consider the possibilities. (Sorry, don't remember his name - short memory.) > > Chuck > WB2EDV > > > > > - Original Message - > *From:* Larry Horlick > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:00 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! > > Do you expect to EVER allow other, non-ham users, to multi-couple to this > antenna? Plan carefully. > If you anticipate to share, then the bandwidth become very important. For > example, a Sinclair 210C Series > antenna has a 36 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth, essentially covering the whole > VHF high band. A Sinclair > 222/224 Series has a 10 mHz 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. A Sinclair 229 has a 6 > mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. > UHF follows a similar set of numbers. If you expect to never allow other > users on the antenna, then my comments > are irrelevant. > > lh > > On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > >> >> >> I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular >> model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass >> manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and >> then some. >> >> Chuck >> WB2EDV >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Larry Horlick >> *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! >> >> Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna. >> >> lh >> >> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC >>> >>> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave >>> and >>> > Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with >>> fiberglass >>> > collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing >>> >>> > untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every >>> radio >>> > service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct >>> hit but >>> > have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, >>> >>> > maybe higher. That said, any can fail. >>> > >>> > Chuck >>> > WB2EDV >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> >>> > >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. >>> > >> >>> > >> 1: >>> > >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave >>> > >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >>> >>> >> -- >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 >> 02:36:00 >> >> > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 > 02:36:00 > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
Larry is correct. My own personal hope and desire is that there will NOT be other users. Call me greedy, I suppose, but the less RF at the site, the better. However, the guy that posted the original question certainly needs to consider the possibilities. (Sorry, don't remember his name - short memory.) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Do you expect to EVER allow other, non-ham users, to multi-couple to this antenna? Plan carefully. If you anticipate to share, then the bandwidth become very important. For example, a Sinclair 210C Series antenna has a 36 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth, essentially covering the whole VHF high band. A Sinclair 222/224 Series has a 10 mHz 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. A Sinclair 229 has a 6 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. UHF follows a similar set of numbers. If you expect to never allow other users on the antenna, then my comments are irrelevant. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and then some. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid wrote: My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" wrote: > > My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and > Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass > collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing > untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio > service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but > have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, > maybe higher. That said, any can fail. > > Chuck > WB2EDV > > > > >> > >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. > >> > >> 1: > >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave > >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? > >> > >> > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 02:36:00 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 02:36:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
Do you expect to EVER allow other, non-ham users, to multi-couple to this antenna? Plan carefully. If you anticipate to share, then the bandwidth become very important. For example, a Sinclair 210C Series antenna has a 36 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth, essentially covering the whole VHF high band. A Sinclair 222/224 Series has a 10 mHz 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. A Sinclair 229 has a 6 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. UHF follows a similar set of numbers. If you expect to never allow other users on the antenna, then my comments are irrelevant. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > > > I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular > model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass > manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and > then some. > > Chuck > WB2EDV > > > > - Original Message - > *From:* Larry Horlick > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! > > Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna. > > lh > > On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid wrote: > >> >> >> >> My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC >> >> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" >> wrote: >> > >> > My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave >> and >> > Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass >> >> > collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing >> > untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio >> >> > service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit >> but >> > have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, >> > maybe higher. That said, any can fail. >> > >> > Chuck >> > WB2EDV >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. >> > >> >> > >> 1: >> > >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave >> > >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 > 02:36:00 > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and then some. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid wrote: My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" wrote: > > My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and > Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass > collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing > untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio > service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but > have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, > maybe higher. That said, any can fail. > > Chuck > WB2EDV > > > > >> > >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. > >> > >> 1: > >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave > >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? > >> > >> > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 02:36:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid wrote: > > > > My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, > "Chuck Kelsey" wrote: > > > > My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave > and > > Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass > > collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing > > untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio > > service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit > but > > have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, > > maybe higher. That said, any can fail. > > > > Chuck > > WB2EDV > > > > > > > > >> > > >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. > > >> > > >> 1: > > >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave > > >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? > > >> > > >> > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" wrote: > > My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and > Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass > collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing > untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio > service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but > have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, > maybe higher. That said, any can fail. > > Chuck > WB2EDV > > > > >> > >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. > >> > >> 1: > >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave > >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? > >> > >> >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, maybe higher. That said, any can fail. Chuck WB2EDV >> >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. >> >> 1: >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? >> >>
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
If you look at many commercial sites, many are pretty close together. I am not saying that is good or bad, but apparently it works for them. Especially if it is on different bands. You can take a close up look at our repeater(s) install; http://disneycrazy.smugmug.com/Other/New-Repeater-Site/7943953_gF4Q3 We have 2 top mounted antennas (db224 and db420) at 300ft, a 2/440/1.2 Diamond and db224 on a side arm at 250ft and then db224 and db420 at 200ft (side arm mount). Close up pictures on all are on the site. The top mounted antennas are 2 side mounts that are HUGE in comparison to what db sells for side mounting those antennas. The vertical pipe is probably 6 to 8" OD. The arms are 3ft and then puts the db224 and db420 at 6ft apart at the top. Note-these top mounted antennas are not on a side arm you normally see cell phone antennas on. 73, Robert KD4YDC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "n2len" wrote: > > I was given the opportunity of placing 3 repeater antennas at the very top of > a 180 foot cellphone monopole tower. A horizontal arm mounted on the top of > the monopole will allow the mounting of my 3 repeater antennas. Horizontal > separation should be no less than 6 feet apart from each other. > > Here are my 2 questions: > > We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. > > 1: > What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave Superstation > Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? > > Pros and Cons of each. I heard many stories about cracking for both. Wind > load... > These antennas will be top mounted! > Located in the Catskill Mtns, Snow & Ice are problems. High winds etc > > 2: What do you feel about the pattern/reflection with having 3 verticals atop > next to each other spaced say 6 feet apart? > > Thank you for your input: > Len N2LEN >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
What is the possibility of having three, 5 to 10 ft, Horizontal arms in a 120 degree radial pattern? de Lee K4LJP On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:27 AM, n2len wrote: > > > It would be best to provide coverage in a 360 pattern... > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, > Matthew Kaufman wrote: > > > > Is the desired coverage area perfectly circular? > > > > Matthew Kaufman > > > > n2len wrote: > > > I was given the opportunity of placing 3 repeater antennas at the very > top of a 180 foot cellphone monopole tower. A horizontal arm mounted on the > top of the monopole will allow the mounting of my 3 repeater antennas. > Horizontal separation should be no less than 6 feet apart from each other. > > > > > > Here are my 2 questions: > > > > > > We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. > > > > > > 1: > > > What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave > Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? > > > > > > Pros and Cons of each. I heard many stories about cracking for both. > Wind load... > > > These antennas will be top mounted! > > > Located in the Catskill Mtns, Snow & Ice are problems. High winds > etc > > > > > > 2: What do you feel about the pattern/reflection with having 3 > verticals atop next to each other spaced say 6 feet apart? > > > > > > Thank you for your input: > > > Len N2LEN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- "Always drink upstream from the herd."
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
It would be best to provide coverage in a 360 pattern... --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > > Is the desired coverage area perfectly circular? > > Matthew Kaufman > > n2len wrote: > > I was given the opportunity of placing 3 repeater antennas at the very top > > of a 180 foot cellphone monopole tower. A horizontal arm mounted on the top > > of the monopole will allow the mounting of my 3 repeater antennas. > > Horizontal separation should be no less than 6 feet apart from each other. > > > > Here are my 2 questions: > > > > We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. > > > > 1: > > What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave > > Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? > > > > Pros and Cons of each. I heard many stories about cracking for both. Wind > > load... > > These antennas will be top mounted! > > Located in the Catskill Mtns, Snow & Ice are problems. High winds etc > > > > 2: What do you feel about the pattern/reflection with having 3 verticals > > atop next to each other spaced say 6 feet apart? > > > > Thank you for your input: > > Len N2LEN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
