Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
On 4/15/07, N9WYS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think so Skipp... Seems to me I remember that there is some law on the books that requires a manufacturer to provide parts support for their product for 7 years. I wish I could find it... I checked Google for 7-year support and got about 1200 hits, but most of these also reference a 4- to 7-year support cycle, so maybe I'm all wet... Mark - N9WYS I believe from some discussions at work that the law our decision-makers were talking about was a 5-year law, that stated that we had to continue to provide support but no replacement hardware for 5-years after end-of-manufacture of our products, but we're not in the radio biz, so this heads off-topic and into the ditch very quickly. There was also some discussion about end-of-manufacture is a different legal beast than end-of-life, which is also a different beast from end-of-support... and there are different rules for each... especially if you sell to Uncle Sam or local government agencies. Contracts with different agreements than the requirements of the law also play into this, of course. Basically it was all a discussion about how long our support group has to offer support contracts on equipment that hasn't been sold for a couple of years now. The management did the right thing and like previous products I've seen put out to pasture over the years, will continue support for as long as RMA stock is available. Once RMA stock isn't available and boards can't be reasonably repaired, etc... the product will be end-of-lifed at the appropriate time *ahead* of the end-of-support time, and end-of-support sometime after that. If there's one thing I've seen our organization learn over the years, it's that killing a product properly (without surprising or disappointing customers) can often-times cost as much time and almost as much money as creating it in the first place, and it's a cost that should be factored into the overall life-cycle budget of any major product. It helps to have a nice shiny new whiz-bang product everyone wants waiting in the wings, too. Lately our biggest concern has been software companies end-of-life treatment of their software. They don't seem to follow the same rules as manufacturers and set their own rules, apparently. Our products have about a 7 year product life-cycle, but much of the software under the hood (we're talking whole operating systems here, as well as database, and other systems) has much shorter life-cycles that are very erratic. The better (and typically bigger, but not always) software companies do a much better job of long-term support than the small shops. And now we're WAY off-topic. Apologies. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
Ken Arck wrote: ---Don't tell me that! I'm looking at a '94 Vette for my wife! Damn good trade Sir! :-) Mike
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
Don't you just love it when an opportunity to use a line like that comes along? Richard _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Pugh Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 12:56 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater Ken Arck wrote: ---Don't tell me that! I'm looking at a '94 Vette for my wife! Damn good trade Sir! :-) Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
In a message dated 4/15/2007 12:32:50 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's interesting since the FLEX cable in an HT1000 went NLA before they even stopped making new radios! That's right - you could buy a new radio that had one, but if it went out, you have to get one used somwehere. I still want to know where they got the parts for the new radios if the flex was NLA. Joe M. They probably used the MT/MTS/MTX front display flex. It will work on the HT1000. Chris ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
I don't think so Skipp... Seems to me I remember that there is some law on the books that requires a manufacturer to provide parts support for their product for 7 years. I wish I could find it... I checked Google for 7-year support and got about 1200 hits, but most of these also reference a 4- to 7-year support cycle, so maybe I'm all wet... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Probably a condition of sale (terms of a contract) to a Government Agency or large customer carried over into the consumer market as a promise of support based on previous history. s. N9WYS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought manufacturers were required by some obscure law (federal?) to be able to supply parts for any item marketed for 7 years after it's sale... or maybe I was dreaming. ??? Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
In a message dated 4/15/2007 9:10:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I thought manufacturers were required by some obscure law (federal?) to be able to supply parts for any item marketed for 7 years after it's sale... or maybe I was dreaming. There are such laws, but as a practical matter they are worthless because there is no cap on what they can charge for replacement parts. The most prolific abuser of these laws with astronomical replacement parts cost for older models is the automobile industry. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
At 12:03 PM 4/15/2007, you wrote: here are such laws, but as a practical matter they are worthless because there is no cap on what they can charge for replacement parts. The most prolific abuser of these laws with astronomical replacement parts cost for older models is the automobile industry. ---Don't me that! I'm looking at a '94 Vette for my wife! Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Coming soon - the most advanced repeater controller EVER. Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
The problem being, yes they can get you the part but it will take those 7 years in some cases. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Hudson Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater I remember the 7 year support rule too, but I don’t know why… Bill From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of N9WYS Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:35 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater I thought manufacturers were required by some obscure law (federal?) to be able to supply parts for any item marketed for 7 years after it's sale... or maybe I was dreaming. ??? Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of skipp025 Back in days of old... when knights were bold... and rubbers ... (opps that's another story...) Back in the 60's, 70's 80's Motorola reportedly contracted to continue making replacement parts available for 5 or 8 years min. I clearly remember being able to buy Motrac parts well into the late 70's and early 80's. That type of business model is long gone. Mfgrs are often hard pressed to get a device from concept to market before the part sources dry up/out. It's just the way of the world... cheers, s. Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The MSF5000 supply is similarly power-hungry. Most ferro-resonant supplies are. They give up efficiency for bullet-proof operation. Other parts may die, but when's the last time you had to fix a broken Moto power supply of that vintage? Of course, Motorola isn't helping much by making spare parts for so much of this great old equipment NLA. Bob M. == Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/760 - Release Date: 4/13/2007 8:04 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/761 - Release Date: 4/14/2007 9:36 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
I don't know your wife, Ken, but it sounds like a good trade. ;- Joe M. Ken Arck wrote: I'm looking at a '94 Vette for my wife! Ken
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 4/15/2007 9:10:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I thought manufacturers were required by some obscure law (federal?) to be able to supply parts for any item marketed for 7 years after it's sale... or maybe I was dreaming. There are such laws, but as a practical matter they are worthless because there is no cap on what they can charge for replacement parts. The most prolific abuser of these laws with astronomical replacement parts cost for older models is the automobile industry. With the medical repair parts industry being a close second drop me a note off-line and I'll give you some examples. :-( _Ray_KBØSTN
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
Not to worry, Ken. There are PLENTY of purveyors of parts for the Vette... The primary one that comes to mind for me is Mid America Corvette. Of course, they're only about a 3 hour drive from my house. And then there's Ecklers, and Corvette Central, and. I own a '74 coupe. (Yes, **another** expensive hobby.) -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Ken Arck At 12:03 PM 4/15/2007, you wrote: here are such laws, but as a practical matter they are worthless because there is no cap on what they can charge for replacement parts. The most prolific abuser of these laws with astronomical replacement parts cost for older models is the automobile industry. ---Don't me that! I'm looking at a '94 Vette for my wife! Ken
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
I thought manufacturers were required by some obscure law (federal?) to be able to supply parts for any item marketed for 7 years after it's sale... or maybe I was dreaming. ??? Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Back in days of old... when knights were bold... and rubbers ... (opps that's another story...) Back in the 60's, 70's 80's Motorola reportedly contracted to continue making replacement parts available for 5 or 8 years min. I clearly remember being able to buy Motrac parts well into the late 70's and early 80's. That type of business model is long gone. Mfgrs are often hard pressed to get a device from concept to market before the part sources dry up/out. It's just the way of the world... cheers, s. Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The MSF5000 supply is similarly power-hungry. Most ferro-resonant supplies are. They give up efficiency for bullet-proof operation. Other parts may die, but when's the last time you had to fix a broken Moto power supply of that vintage? Of course, Motorola isn't helping much by making spare parts for so much of this great old equipment NLA. Bob M. ==
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
I remember the 7 year support rule too, but I dont know why Bill From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of N9WYS Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater I thought manufacturers were required by some obscure law (federal?) to be able to supply parts for any item marketed for 7 years after it's sale... or maybe I was dreaming. ??? Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Back in days of old... when knights were bold... and rubbers ... (opps that's another story...) Back in the 60's, 70's 80's Motorola reportedly contracted to continue making replacement parts available for 5 or 8 years min. I clearly remember being able to buy Motrac parts well into the late 70's and early 80's. That type of business model is long gone. Mfgrs are often hard pressed to get a device from concept to market before the part sources dry up/out. It's just the way of the world... cheers, s. Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The MSF5000 supply is similarly power-hungry. Most ferro-resonant supplies are. They give up efficiency for bullet-proof operation. Other parts may die, but when's the last time you had to fix a broken Moto power supply of that vintage? Of course, Motorola isn't helping much by making spare parts for so much of this great old equipment NLA. Bob M. == BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:;W6CBS FN:W6CBS ORG:Hudson Sports Productions TITLE:Broadcast Engineer TEL;WORK;VOICE:1-650-595-5566 TEL;PREF:1-650-595-5566 ADR;WORK:;1-650-595-5566;P O Box 7143;San Carlos;California;94070;USA LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:1-650-595-5566=0D=0AP O Box 7143=0D=0ASan Carlos, California 94070=0D=0AUSA EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20060508T165031Z END:VCARD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater
That's interesting since the FLEX cable in an HT1000 went NLA before they even stopped making new radios! That's right - you could buy a new radio that had one, but if it went out, you have to get one used somwehere. I still want to know where they got the parts for the new radios if the flex was NLA. Joe M. Bill Hudson wrote: I remember the 7 year support rule too, but I dont know why Bill From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of N9WYS Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Replacement of an older Repeater I thought manufacturers were required by some obscure law (federal?) to be able to supply parts for any item marketed for 7 years after it's sale... or maybe I was dreaming. ??? Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Back in days of old... when knights were bold... and rubbers ... (opps that's another story...) Back in the 60's, 70's 80's Motorola reportedly contracted to continue making replacement parts available for 5 or 8 years min. I clearly remember being able to buy Motrac parts well into the late 70's and early 80's. That type of business model is long gone. Mfgrs are often hard pressed to get a device from concept to market before the part sources dry up/out. It's just the way of the world... cheers, s. Bob M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The MSF5000 supply is similarly power-hungry. Most ferro-resonant supplies are. They give up efficiency for bullet-proof operation. Other parts may die, but when's the last time you had to fix a broken Moto power supply of that vintage? Of course, Motorola isn't helping much by making spare parts for so much of this great old equipment NLA. Bob M. == Yahoo! Groups Links W6CBS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Broadcast Engineer Hudson Sports Productions W6CBS Broadcast Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hudson Sports Productions 1-650-595-5566 Work Voice: 1-650-595-5566 P O Box 7143 Preferred: 1-650-595-5566 San Carlos California 94070 USA Additional Information: Version 2.1 First NameW6CBS Label Work1-650-595-5566 P O Box 7143 San Carlos, California 94070 USA Revision 20060508T165031Z
