Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[no6b]

At 10/22/2009 12:01, you wrote:


>n...@no6b.com wrote:
>>
>>At 10/21/2009 13:23, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare me
>>>the get a REAL repeater comments please!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of these?
>>>
>>
>>
>>I added a Micor squelch board from LinkComm to a Kendecom RX once.  It
>>worked fairly well, though it was still somewhat susceptible to off-channel
>>signals, making the squelch excessively tight whenever a strong signal was
>>present 15 kHz away, regardless of modulation level on that signal.  I
>>suspect this to be due to design flaw in the MR4 design (mid-stage IF
>>amplifier overload).  A 10 kHz LPF in front of the Micor squelch board may
>>cure that problem.
>>
>>Bob NO6B
>
>Funny you should mention that, Bob...  The Kendecom repeater the local 
>club had would indeed overload.  If you were within a mile of the repeater 
>site and forgot to go to low power on the mobile rig, the repeater would 
>remind you - by cutting you off.  If you reduced the power level on your 
>radio to 5 watts, you could use the repeater almost right up to the 
>site.  This is the only repeater we have utilized at that site that 
>exhibited this behavior.  It was replaced about 7 years ago with a 30 year 
>old MICOR.
>
>Kevin Custer

The built-in Kendecom squelch is rather odd in that it is a bilevel 
squelch, but IIRC the fast squelch is activated not by noise, but by an 
RSSI indicator that comes from the 1st IF, not the 2nd.  As such, it's 
susceptible to adjacent channel interference since it sees adjacent channel 
energy that makes it through the 1st IF filters.  The problem I described 
with the Micor squelch is unrelated to this.  In your case, I suspect a 
simple misadjustment with the fast squelch circuit, as it sounds like it 
completely cut off the squelch when it was activated.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Well, I had to ask.  I'm sure I can figure it out, but I'm WAY too old to
think about reinventing the wheel if I don't have to!

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n...@no6b.com
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:21 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 

  

At 10/22/2009 08:06, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Have you got a diagram or notes on how you did your installation?

Unfortunately, no. It was done for a friend's repeater that was partially 
stolen (including the RX); the remaining pieces were sold.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[no6b]

At 10/22/2009 08:06, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Have you got a diagram or notes on how you did your installation?

Unfortunately, no.  It was done for a friend's repeater that was partially 
stolen (including the RX); the remaining pieces were sold.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Kevin Custer]

Why don't you call the factory!  They are very helpful if you don't 
keep them on the phone too long.


The repeater was back to the factory more times than I care to mention.  
The overload problem was reported every time it went back and it always 
returned working the same way - not fixed. 
Like many Microsoft products, it was a feature


Kevin

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[David Jordan]

Why don't you call the factory!  They are very helpful if you don't keep
them on the phone too long. 

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:02 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 

  

n...@no6b.com wrote: 

At 10/21/2009 13:23, you wrote:
 
 
  

Anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare me 
the get a REAL repeater comments please!)
 
 
 
Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of these?


 
I added a Micor squelch board from LinkComm to a Kendecom RX once.  It 
worked fairly well, though it was still somewhat susceptible to off-channel 
signals, making the squelch excessively tight whenever a strong signal was 
present 15 kHz away, regardless of modulation level on that signal.  I 
suspect this to be due to design flaw in the MR4 design (mid-stage IF 
amplifier overload).  A 10 kHz LPF in front of the Micor squelch board may 
cure that problem.
 
Bob NO6B


Funny you should mention that, Bob...  The Kendecom repeater the local club
had would indeed overload.  If you were within a mile of the repeater site
and forgot to go to low power on the mobile rig, the repeater would remind
you - by cutting you off.  If you reduced the power level on your radio to 5
watts, you could use the repeater almost right up to the site.  This is the
only repeater we have utilized at that site that exhibited this behavior.
It was replaced about 7 years ago with a 30 year old MICOR.  

Kevin Custer

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Kevin Custer]

n...@no6b.com wrote:

At 10/21/2009 13:23, you wrote:


  
Anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare me 
the get a REAL repeater comments please!)




Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of these?



I added a Micor squelch board from LinkComm to a Kendecom RX once.  It 
worked fairly well, though it was still somewhat susceptible to off-channel 
signals, making the squelch excessively tight whenever a strong signal was 
present 15 kHz away, regardless of modulation level on that signal.  I 
suspect this to be due to design flaw in the MR4 design (mid-stage IF 
amplifier overload).  A 10 kHz LPF in front of the Micor squelch board may 
cure that problem.


Bob NO6B


Funny you should mention that, Bob...  The Kendecom repeater the local 
club had would indeed overload.  If you were within a mile of the 
repeater site and forgot to go to low power on the mobile rig, the 
repeater would remind you - by cutting you off.  If you reduced the 
power level on your radio to 5 watts, you could use the repeater almost 
right up to the site.  This is the only repeater we have utilized at 
that site that exhibited this behavior.  It was replaced about 7 years 
ago with a 30 year old MICOR. 


Kevin Custer

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[DCFluX]

I reverse engineered the 6709 when I was in High school.

It is basically a couple of op-amp sections configured as fairly
narrow high frequency band pass filters, an audio to DC rectifier,
window comparator and some switching logic to decide whether to be
instant closure or switch to 150mS delay.

http://www.repeater-builder.com/projects/super-squelch/supersquelch4schematic.gif

http://www.repeater-builder.com/micor/micor-bi-level-squelch-theory.html

Modern "digital" squelch boards do all the same stuff, but the window
comparator is replaced with a small micro controller that looks at an
Analog voltage input to allow for easier programming of your set
points.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Matthew Kaufman]

Cort Buffington wrote:
> Doesn't seem un-doable. That chip is almost 40 years old, during the  
> time it was developed, there just cannot have been some magic you can  
> put on a silicon die that we can't replicate with a few more discrete  
> components or Op-Amps today.
>   
It is actually pretty easy to replicate the behavior with digital signal 
processing. In fact, you can trivially make it have more "levels" than 
the 2 the original chip had.

I'd have more details for you, but most of my repeater DSP work is on my 
voted system and on a voted system a multi-level squelch is exactly what 
you DON'T want. (Because with enough receivers, there's always one that 
is getting a weak version of the signal, and so when the user unkeys the 
voter sees all the strong receivers drop COS and the weak receiver(s) 
doing their long squelch tail.)

Matthew Kaufman






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Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Cort Buffington]

Doesn't seem un-doable. That chip is almost 40 years old, during the  
time it was developed, there just cannot have been some magic you can  
put on a silicon die that we can't replicate with a few more discrete  
components or Op-Amps today.

I smell a winter project coming on :)

On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:01 AM, n...@no6b.com wrote:
>
> How about < 2 millisecond decay time on strong signals? Even many
> controllers don't sample the COS line that fast.
>
> Bob NO6B
>
> 

--
Cort Buffington
H: +1-785-838-3034
M: +1-785-865-7206










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RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[mwbesemer]

Bob,

Have you got a diagram or notes on how you did your installation?

Mike
WM4B


On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:49 AM, n...@no6b.com wrote:

> At 10/21/2009 13:23, you wrote:
>
>
>> Anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare 
>> me the get a REAL repeater comments please!)
>>
>>
>>
>> Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of 
>> these?
>
> I added a Micor squelch board from LinkComm to a Kendecom RX once.  It 
> worked fairly well, though it was still somewhat susceptible to 
> off-channel signals, making the squelch excessively tight whenever a 
> strong signal was present 15 kHz away, regardless of modulation level 
> on that signal.  I suspect this to be due to design flaw in the MR4 
> design (mid-stage IF amplifier overload).  A 10 kHz LPF in front of 
> the Micor squelch board may cure that problem.
>
> Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[no6b]

At 10/21/2009 18:26, you wrote:
>  >>>risking getting flamed<<<
>
>The micor squelch is great, but it's not magic. Good amps, good
>filters, limiters, and a bi-level comparator. I've built a couple...
>mine weren't as great, but the one on the MSR2000 R1 audio card is
>Motorola's knock off of their own chip, and pretty impressive.
>
>So, with the Micor chip getting more and more esoteric all the time,
>is it worth building an alternative that works comparably without the
>special chip, and making a kit available? Magazine article, etc.? Note
>this is something I might be willing to collaborate on with others.
>
>Maybe there's something about the Micor I'm missing that others love.

How about < 2 millisecond decay time on strong signals?  Even many 
controllers don't sample the COS line that fast.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[no6b]

At 10/21/2009 13:23, you wrote:


>Anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare me 
>the get a REAL repeater comments please!)
>
>
>
>Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of these?

I added a Micor squelch board from LinkComm to a Kendecom RX once.  It 
worked fairly well, though it was still somewhat susceptible to off-channel 
signals, making the squelch excessively tight whenever a strong signal was 
present 15 kHz away, regardless of modulation level on that signal.  I 
suspect this to be due to design flaw in the MR4 design (mid-stage IF 
amplifier overload).  A 10 kHz LPF in front of the Micor squelch board may 
cure that problem.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Cort Buffington]

 >>>risking getting flamed<<<

The micor squelch is great, but it's not magic. Good amps, good  
filters, limiters, and a bi-level comparator. I've built a couple...  
mine weren't as great, but the one on the MSR2000 R1 audio card is  
Motorola's knock off of their own chip, and pretty impressive.

So, with the Micor chip getting more and more esoteric all the time,  
is it worth building an alternative that works comparably without the  
special chip, and making a kit available? Magazine article, etc.? Note  
this is something I might be willing to collaborate on with others.

Maybe there's something about the Micor I'm missing that others love.

73 DE N0MJS

On Oct 21, 2009, at 6:55 PM, Kevin Custer wrote:

> The MICOR squelch is available from Link Comm, but its price has  
> become a bit hard to swallow (IMHO) (currently $110.00 not including  
> shipping).  With that in mind, you could obtain a Audio & Squelch  
> Board from a mobile or station (cheap) and carefully extract the  
> squelch chip and build your own.
>
> Here are some links:
> http://www.link-comm.com/lpage.php?cid=2
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/micor/micor-bi-level-squelch-theory.html
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/temp/micor-bilevel.gif
>
> Good luck!
>
> Kevin Custer
>
>
>
>
>> anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?   
>> (Spare me the ‘get a REAL repeater’ comments please!)
>> Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of  
>> these?
>>
>>  I’ve got 3 of these beasts (2 in service and one spare) and the  
>> squelch on one of them in particular is pretty lousy.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> WM4B
>>
>
>
> 

--
Cort Buffington
H: +1-785-838-3034
M: +1-785-865-7206










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RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Thanks Kevin.  As soon as I get the infamous ‘round-tuit’, I’m gonna look
into that.

73,

Mike
WM4B

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:56 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

  
The MICOR squelch is available from Link Comm, but its price has become a
bit hard to swallow (IMHO) (currently $110.00 not including shipping).  With
that in mind, you could obtain a Audio & Squelch Board from a mobile or
station (cheap) and carefully extract the squelch chip and build your own.

Here are some links:
http://www.link-comm.com/lpage.php?cid=2
http://www.repeater-builder.com/micor/micor-bi-level-squelch-theory.html
http://www.repeater-builder.com/temp/micor-bilevel.gif

Good luck!

Kevin Custer



anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare me the
‘get a REAL repeater’ comments please!)  
Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of these?  
 I’ve got 3 of these beasts (2 in service and one spare) and the squelch on
one of them in particular is pretty lousy. 

73, 

Mike
WM4B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Kevin Custer]

The MICOR squelch is available from Link Comm, but its price has become 
a bit hard to swallow (IMHO) (currently $110.00 not including 
shipping).  With that in mind, you could obtain a Audio & Squelch Board 
from a mobile or station (cheap) and carefully extract the squelch chip 
and build your own.


Here are some links:
http://www.link-comm.com/lpage.php?cid=2
http://www.repeater-builder.com/micor/micor-bi-level-squelch-theory.html
http://www.repeater-builder.com/temp/micor-bilevel.gif

Good luck!

Kevin Custer




anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare 
me the 'get a REAL repeater' comments please!) 

Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of these? 

 I've got 3 of these beasts (2 in service and one spare) and the 
squelch on one of them in particular is pretty lousy.


73,

Mike

WM4B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Anybody got any suggestions about fixing the squelch circuit?  (Spare me the
'get a REAL repeater' comments please!)  

 

Is the MICOR squelch still available?  Anybody done it to one of these?  

 

I've got 3 of these beasts (2 in service and one spare) and the squelch on
one of them in particular is pretty lousy.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:48 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 

  


On Oct 18, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Jed Barton wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
> repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
> One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i 
> would ask
> since they want to know.
> As far as relyability, good, bad?

Reliability: Looking inside ours, at the quality of the components, I 
would have given it only a few years before it fried. Surprisingly 
it's been up for way over 10 years now. Maybe 20? Originally 
installed when novices were given 220 MHz voice priveleges, hard 
linked to 2m, so they could talk to the higher license classes.

We keep "meaning to" replace it with a converted MASTR II, but it 
hasn't forced us to make it a priority, if you catch my drift.

Complaints match Kevin and other's comments:

Squelch action, crappy. Seriously crappy. Way too much hysteresis 
means you have to crank it way up to get any kind of decent squelch 
action.

RX is relatively deaf, but workable with a pre-amp. (220 is so darn 
QUIET, it's hard NOT to hear signals... so "it works", but it could 
work a LOT better.)

Like almost everyone else, the club's main techs at the time, ripped 
out/bypassed the internal controller. It was so long ago, I wasn't 
even a Ham back then (prior to 1991 for sure!) and did a custom 
interface to an S-Com controller. Sounds like they'll do it for you 
at the factory these days.

The really annoying one for us has been this:

TX frequency stability is very poor. We have to put it back on TX 
frequency on a regular basis (annually at least). The potentiometer 
quality used for this adjustment is abysmal and gets worse to fiddle 
with every year it gets older. Another one of those dilemmas... "mess 
with it and put in a multi-turn pot, or just replace the whole thing 
with a GE?"...

(We just had our first "neighbor" pair on 220 utilized in the area, 
and the owner is someone I know. He noted that we're off frequency in 
his direction (this time) a little bit, and I promised him I'd go 
tweak the thing again at first opportunity.)

Oh... almost forgot about this one:

Getting the cover off and working on the thing in a rack-mount 
environment is a complete PITA. Put a rack shelf under it for when 
you need to get at the guts. Have a place to put all the little 
screws (or ditch half of them and never put them back) and make your 
cabling long enough to turn the thing upside down on the shelf if you 
have to troubleshoot the underside of any of the circuit boards.

Ours took a lightning hit -- again, more than ten years ago -- which 
toasted some of the metering circuitry, making the pretty little 
meters on the front, somewhat useless in some modes of the switches. 
Unbelievable that it survived, it has ball lightning marks at the 
screw holes in the front in the blue paint, to this day. Oh, by the 
way... lesson learned... scrape the pretty blue paint off around those 
holes and get down to bare metal before shooting your rack screws into 
it. Waste of pretty blue paint, since you want your rack rails 
properly grounded to the repeater's case anyway.

Four or five years ago, we found a dried out capacitor in the audio 
chain that caused it to sound horrible.

(Perhaps that's why Bob can always tell them, and other people rave 
about their audio... again, low quality components...) It was a chore 
to follow the audio chain through the thing (upside down) with a scope 
to find the stage that was dead. Once found, and replaced, it popped 
back to the usual good quality audio we were used to hearing out of it.)

My plan has always just been to replace it... everything else in the 
network other than the 1.2 GHz analog machine, is GE MASTR II's... no 
reason not to continue the "standardization process" eventually, when 
other more pressing issues are completed. Working on the MASTR II's 
is just easier.

It'd make a good "basement/backyard" repeater. On a mountain, in 
tight working quarters in a rack, it's a pain, and the build quality 
just isn't what we like to use.

The MASTR II shelves are MADE to drop them open and work on them on- 
site... etc. Why fight with it? It ever dies, it's not 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Pointman]

using pure discriminator audio perhaps?

--- On Mon, 10/19/09, Michael Ryan  wrote:

From: Michael Ryan 
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 1:06 AM












 
 





  







Hello Bob, Well..I know you would know what a good machine
should sound like.  You have worked a few I know!  Steve, W4YHD had done some
audio tailoring within the unit but just what I could not say.  But I know it 
has
been on the air with nary a glitch for a quarter century or more.  In fact I
would say that his repeater has been the most reliable machine in our club all
the years I lived up there.  And it is still going strong.  - Mike 

   





From:
Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogro ups.com] 
On
Behalf Of n...@no6b.com

Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:45 PM

To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220 





   

   







At 10/18/2009 19:17, you wrote:



>The repeater there in Fairfax, Va on 224.100 has the best audio of any 

>repeater I ever heard. It is a Kendecom. I dare anyone to tell me that 

>they can tell the difference between the INPUT audio and the OUTPUT 

>audio. Very natural, unprocessed, and a pleasure to listen to. - Mike



Wondering what you did to it to make it sound so good. Every one I've 

heard around here sounds very restricted & somewhat distorted. In fact, I 

can usually tell if a repeater is a Kendecom by the characteristically poor 

repeat audio.



Bob NO6B 





 







__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4520 (20091018) __



The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.



http://www.eset. com 







 

  




 






















  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Nate Duehr]

On Oct 18, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Jed Barton wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
> repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
> One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i  
> would ask
> since they want to know.
> As far as relyability, good, bad?

Reliability: Looking inside ours, at the quality of the components, I  
would have given it only a few years before it fried.  Surprisingly  
it's been up for way over 10 years now.  Maybe 20?  Originally  
installed when novices were given 220 MHz voice priveleges, hard  
linked to 2m, so they could talk to the higher license classes.

We keep "meaning to" replace it with a converted MASTR II, but it  
hasn't forced us to make it a priority, if you catch my drift.

Complaints match Kevin and other's comments:

Squelch action, crappy.  Seriously crappy.  Way too much hysteresis  
means you have to crank it way up to get any kind of decent squelch  
action.

RX is relatively deaf, but workable with a pre-amp.  (220 is so darn  
QUIET, it's hard NOT to hear signals... so "it works", but it could  
work a LOT better.)

Like almost everyone else, the club's main techs at the time, ripped  
out/bypassed the internal controller.  It was so long ago, I wasn't  
even a Ham back then (prior to 1991 for sure!) and did a custom  
interface to an S-Com controller.  Sounds like they'll do it for you  
at the factory these days.

The really annoying one for us has been this:

TX frequency stability is very poor.  We have to put it back on TX  
frequency on a regular basis (annually at least).  The potentiometer  
quality used for this adjustment is abysmal and gets worse to fiddle  
with every year it gets older.  Another one of those dilemmas... "mess  
with it and put in a multi-turn pot, or just replace the whole thing  
with a GE?"...

(We just had our first "neighbor" pair on 220 utilized in the area,  
and the owner is someone I know.  He noted that we're off frequency in  
his direction (this time) a little bit, and I promised him I'd go  
tweak the thing again at first opportunity.)

Oh... almost forgot about this one:

Getting the cover off and working on the thing in a rack-mount  
environment is a complete PITA.  Put a rack shelf under it for when  
you need to get at the guts.  Have a place to put all the little  
screws (or ditch half of them and never put them back) and make your  
cabling long enough to turn the thing upside down on the shelf if you  
have to troubleshoot the underside of any of the circuit boards.

Ours took a lightning hit -- again, more than ten years ago -- which  
toasted some of the metering circuitry, making the pretty little  
meters on the front, somewhat useless in some modes of the switches.   
Unbelievable that it survived, it has ball lightning marks at the  
screw holes in the front in the blue paint, to this day.  Oh, by the  
way... lesson learned... scrape the pretty blue paint off around those  
holes and get down to bare metal before shooting your rack screws into  
it.  Waste of pretty blue paint, since you want your rack rails  
properly grounded to the repeater's case anyway.

Four or five years ago, we found a dried out capacitor in the audio  
chain that caused it to sound horrible.

(Perhaps that's why Bob can always tell them, and other people rave  
about their audio... again, low quality components...) It was a chore  
to follow the audio chain through the thing (upside down) with a scope  
to find the stage that was dead.  Once found, and replaced, it popped  
back to the usual good quality audio we were used to hearing out of it.)

My plan has always just been to replace it... everything else in the  
network other than the 1.2 GHz analog machine, is GE MASTR II's... no  
reason not to continue the "standardization process" eventually, when  
other more pressing issues are completed.  Working on the MASTR II's  
is just easier.

It'd make a good "basement/backyard" repeater.  On a mountain, in  
tight working quarters in a rack, it's a pain, and the build quality  
just isn't what we like to use.

The MASTR II shelves are MADE to drop them open and work on them on- 
site... etc.  Why fight with it?  It ever dies, it's not getting  
repaired to go back to the hill.

That's probably enough.  I won't "bash" them completely, but I  
wouldn't put another into service.  Especially not at their "very  
proud of this blue box" NEW pricing.  Ouch.

--
Nate Duehr, WY0X
n...@natetech.com

http://facebook.com/denverpilot
http://twitter.com/denverpilot

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Michael Ryan]

Hello Bob, Well..I know you would know what a good machine should sound
like.  You have worked a few I know!  Steve, W4YHD had done some audio
tailoring within the unit but just what I could not say.  But I know it has
been on the air with nary a glitch for a quarter century or more.  In fact I
would say that his repeater has been the most reliable machine in our club
all the years I lived up there.  And it is still going strong.  - Mike

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n...@no6b.com
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:45 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 

  

At 10/18/2009 19:17, you wrote:

>The repeater there in Fairfax, Va on 224.100 has the best audio of any 
>repeater I ever heard. It is a Kendecom. I dare anyone to tell me that 
>they can tell the difference between the INPUT audio and the OUTPUT 
>audio. Very natural, unprocessed, and a pleasure to listen to. - Mike

Wondering what you did to it to make it sound so good. Every one I've 
heard around here sounds very restricted & somewhat distorted. In fact, I 
can usually tell if a repeater is a Kendecom by the characteristically poor 
repeat audio.

Bob NO6B





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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[no6b]

At 10/18/2009 19:17, you wrote:


>The repeater there in Fairfax, Va on 224.100 has the best audio of any 
>repeater I ever heard.  It is a Kendecom.  I dare anyone to tell me that 
>they can tell the difference between the INPUT audio and the OUTPUT 
>audio.  Very natural, unprocessed, and a pleasure to listen to.  - Mike

Wondering what you did to it to make it sound so good.  Every one I've 
heard around here sounds very restricted & somewhat distorted.  In fact, I 
can usually tell if a repeater is a Kendecom by the characteristically poor 
repeat audio.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Michael Ryan]

The repeater there in Fairfax, Va on 224.100 has the best audio of any
repeater I ever heard.  It is a Kendecom.  I dare anyone to tell me that
they can tell the difference between the INPUT audio and the OUTPUT audio.
Very natural, unprocessed, and a pleasure to listen to.  - Mike

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of WA3GIN
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 4:26 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 

  

We had a Mark 4 on 2m, for many years.  Transmit audio the best we ever
heard. Rec was fine. The Controller was Old school but it did what it said
it would.   

 

For a Military repeater converted for the commercial marketplace in the 70s
I think they did an OK job. You can still get service for them too!  

 

Anyone looking to buy a 2m Mark 4 in great condition; to play with or as a
back-up or for a portable  unit,  email me direct.

 

We upgraded to Kenwood TKR.  Nice, easy to program but the audio doesn't
come close to the Kendicom's.

 

73,

dave

wa3gin 

- Original Message - 

From: n...@no6b.com 

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 2:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 

  

At 10/18/2009 10:28 AM, you wrote:
>Hey guys,
>
>I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
>repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
>One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i would ask
>since they want to know.
>As far as relyability, good, bad?

In a word, bad. The RXs are salvageable, & do have some strong 
points. The internal squelch is NG IMO & needs to be replaced, preferably 
with a Micor squelch. The TXs & internal controller are junk.

Best bet for 220 is a converted GE or Micor, or find a Midland 13-509 to 
split apart.

Bob NO6B





__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4520 (20091018) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[WA3GIN]

WIerd,  I've had this email address for over ten years and been getting email 
all day.  Is there a space between Comast  and .net.  It looks like you may 
have inserted a space which would have caused the error message to be sent.

What's up,
dave

  - Original Message - 
  From: MR. B 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220


Dave,

  I sent a note to your calls...@comcast.net and received this return:


Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

  Recipient address: wa3...@comcast.net
  Reason: Illegal host/domain name foundPlease send me contact information -- 

  Thank You,

  Ron


  WA3GIN wrote: 
  

We had a Mark 4 on 2m, for many years.  Transmit audio the best we ever 
heard. Rec was fine. The Controller was Old school but it did what it said it 
would.   

For a Military repeater converted for the commercial marketplace in the 70s 
I think they did an OK job. You can still get service for them too!  

Anyone looking to buy a 2m Mark 4 in great condition; to play with or as a 
back-up or for a portable  unit,  email me direct.

We upgraded to Kenwood TKR.  Nice, easy to program but the audio doesn't 
come close to the Kendicom's.

73,
dave
wa3gin 
  - Original Message - 
  From: n...@no6b.com 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 2:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220



  At 10/18/2009 10:28 AM, you wrote:
  >Hey guys,
  >
  >I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
  >repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
  >One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i would 
ask
  >since they want to know.
  >As far as relyability, good, bad?

  In a word, bad. The RXs are salvageable, & do have some strong 
  points. The internal squelch is NG IMO & needs to be replaced, preferably 
  with a Micor squelch. The TXs & internal controller are junk.

  Best bet for 220 is a converted GE or Micor, or find a Midland 13-509 to 
  split apart.

  Bob NO6B




  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[MR. B]

Dave,

I sent a note to your calls...@comcast.net and received this return:

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

 Recipient address: wa3...@comcast.net
 Reason: Illegal host/domain name found

Please send me contact information --

Thank You,

Ron


WA3GIN wrote:
 

We had a Mark 4 on 2m, for many years.  Transmit audio the best we 
ever heard. Rec was fine. The Controller was Old school but it did 
what it said it would.  
 
For a Military repeater converted for the commercial marketplace in 
the 70s I think they did an OK job. You can still get service for them 
too! 
 
Anyone looking to buy a 2m Mark 4 in great condition; to play with or 
as a back-up or for a portable  unit,  email me direct.
 
We upgraded to Kenwood TKR.  Nice, easy to program but the audio 
doesn't come close to the Kendicom's.
 
73,

dave
wa3gin 


- Original Message -
*From:* n...@no6b.com <mailto:n...@no6b.com>
*To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, October 18, 2009 2:47 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 


At 10/18/2009 10:28 AM, you wrote:
>Hey guys,
>
>I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
>repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
>One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i
would ask
>since they want to know.
>As far as relyability, good, bad?

In a word, bad. The RXs are salvageable, & do have some strong
points. The internal squelch is NG IMO & needs to be replaced,
preferably
with a Micor squelch. The TXs & internal controller are junk.

Best bet for 220 is a converted GE or Micor, or find a Midland
13-509 to
split apart.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Neal Newman]

 Hey Jed How are you my Friend

 I have had Kendecomm Repeaters...
The 2 meter machine  was a good machine. never had Issues with it.
The 200 Machine Probably had the Hottest receiver you could find on 220Mhz
 actually had 2 of these on 220..
Lost them in the House fire in 2007.
 I am still Running the 440 machine. I think the issue I have with it is that 
Im sharing an old Dualband antenna through a Diplexer with a 2 meter mahine. 
and Im only running 10 watts on it.  But No Complaints. Its 
chugging along and still works. Even though it to went through the house fire..

Neal KA2CAF


--- On Sun, 10/18/09, Jed Barton  wrote:

> From: Jed Barton 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220
> To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 1:28 PM
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm working with a group and have given them several
> suggestions for
> repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
> One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and
> thought i would ask
> since they want to know.
> As far as relyability, good, bad?
> I know their lineup basicly hasn't changed in years. 
> The people i know that
> have them have been reasonably happy, but figured i would
> get some input.
> 220 is a tough band as we all know.
> Any thoughts guys?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 


  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[WA3GIN]

We had a Mark 4 on 2m, for many years.  Transmit audio the best we ever heard. 
Rec was fine. The Controller was Old school but it did what it said it would.   

For a Military repeater converted for the commercial marketplace in the 70s I 
think they did an OK job. You can still get service for them too!  

Anyone looking to buy a 2m Mark 4 in great condition; to play with or as a 
back-up or for a portable  unit,  email me direct.

We upgraded to Kenwood TKR.  Nice, easy to program but the audio doesn't come 
close to the Kendicom's.

73,
dave
wa3gin 
  - Original Message - 
  From: n...@no6b.com 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 2:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220


At 10/18/2009 10:28 AM, you wrote:
  >Hey guys,
  >
  >I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
  >repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
  >One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i would ask
  >since they want to know.
  >As far as relyability, good, bad?

  In a word, bad. The RXs are salvageable, & do have some strong 
  points. The internal squelch is NG IMO & needs to be replaced, preferably 
  with a Micor squelch. The TXs & internal controller are junk.

  Best bet for 220 is a converted GE or Micor, or find a Midland 13-509 to 
  split apart.

  Bob NO6B



  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Scott Overstreet]

First of all---Kendecom is an obsolete name. The Kendecom line has been 
updated/improved and has been relabeled as ACS which stands for "Advanced 
Communication Systems" which now builds the units. The RF innards are 
basically the same as the last of Kendecom though improved in some 
ways-ACS uses a CAT-1000 controller rather than the Kendecom controller 
and the whole consist, with AC power supply, is packaged in a nice, 
instrumented, easy to use rack mountable box.

I have five of their almost current production repeaters in my present 
responsibility-three 2 meter units and one each on 220 and 440. They 
were all purchased with provision for use with RLC-3 controllers--(an added 
connector arrangement on the rear panel to allow the use of either the 
internal CAT or a RLC-3 externally). I did have a problem with all at 
first---ACS had changed a part in their receivers due previous part 
unavailability, but this was all worked out to both of our advantages and 
ACS was a pleasure to work with. Anyway, all of these repeaters have since 
been absolutely reliable, sound very good, have good sensitivity and 
excellent selectivity. Three of them are on a heavily populated hospital 
roof---absolutely no interference problems.

The only thing that I don't like about the ACS repeater is that they use a 
28 volt fed output amplifier which makes 12 volt battery backup a problem 
unless lower output power when on battery is acceptable.

Please feel free to contact me directly if you have questions,

Scott, N6NXI


  - Original Message - 
  From: Jed Barton
  To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:28 AM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220


Hey guys,

  I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
  repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
  One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i would ask
  since they want to know.
  As far as relyability, good, bad?
  I know their lineup basicly hasn't changed in years. The people i know 
that
  have them have been reasonably happy, but figured i would get some input.
  220 is a tough band as we all know.
  Any thoughts guys?

  Thanks,
  Jed



  


--



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.20/2444 - Release Date: 10/18/09 
09:04:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[no6b]

At 10/18/2009 10:28 AM, you wrote:
>Hey guys,
>
>I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
>repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
>One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i would ask
>since they want to know.
>As far as relyability, good, bad?

In a word, bad.  The RXs are salvageable, & do have some strong 
points.  The internal squelch is NG IMO & needs to be replaced, preferably 
with a Micor squelch.  The TXs & internal controller are junk.

Best bet for 220 is a converted GE or Micor, or find a Midland 13-509 to 
split apart.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Michael Ryan]

Jed, The Northern Virginia FM Association ( check them out on the web) has a
Kendecom 220 repeater that has been on the air up there for over 25 yrs.
The licensee is Steve Floyd, W4YHD.  If you have any questions about it you
could email ( copied on this email ) and I'm sure he would be very happy to
talk to you about his machine in Fairfax, Va on 224.100.   '73, Mike

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 1:52 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

 

  

Jed Barton wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
> repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
> One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i would ask
> since they want to know.
> As far as relyability, good, bad?

Kendecom (MCS)
Reliability - pretty good.
Sensitivity - IMHO deaf.
Squelch - sucks.
Difficulty to interface to a controller - more difficult than most.
Nice pretty blue box!

A MICOR or GE that has been properly converted will blow it away, and 
for a lot less money.

Kevin





__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4520 (20091018) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [Repeater-Builder] kendecom repeaters on 220

[Kevin Custer]

Jed Barton wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> I'm working with a group and have given them several suggestions for
> repeaters on 220 including hipro, ge, moto, etc.
> One thing i don't know much about is the kendecom, and thought i would ask
> since they want to know.
> As far as relyability, good, bad?

Kendecom (MCS)
Reliability - pretty good.
Sensitivity - IMHO deaf.
Squelch - sucks.
Difficulty to interface to a controller - more difficult than most.
Nice pretty blue box!

A MICOR or GE that has been properly converted will blow it away, and 
for a lot less money.

Kevin