Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Jim B.]

Dave VanHorn wrote:

> I have tried the experiment of going up to the site for a couple hours, 
> and not even opening the door..  Then ask if anyone notices any 
> difference in performance.   :)  You get a feeling for who is going to 
> always report problems, and who will report big improvements, where 
> there are none.

Yup-not surprising at all. That's the biggest thing I hate about working 
on a club's repeater vs. a privately owned one. In a club, there is 
always at least one person who isn't happy unless he's complaining about 
the repeater, but has no interest in helping fix it.
Privately owned repeaters can suffer that too, but in the club, the guy 
feels that because he pays dues, he has a right to insist that every 
perceived little bug get fixed immediately. He fails to realise that 
this is a hobby, and no one is getting paid to do this. We squeeze in 
what we can between work and family obligations.

Ok, rant mode off...
-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power Amplifier

[N9WYS]

Maybe, but if they add zeroes to the current draw, they'll probably add a
couple more to the price, too.  :-)

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laryn Lohman
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:42 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power Amplifier

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> TPL makes one:  20-30W drive = 300W output.   
> 

'spensive little box isn't it.  Looking at the specs for it, I think
they forgot a couple of zeros for the current draw.

Laryn K8TVZ







 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Mike Perryman K5JMP]

Or a "vivid imagination"  !!
73
Mike
K5JMP
www.k5jmp.us


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:47 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power


Never underestimate the power of suggestion.

Chuck
WB2EDV



Dave VanHorn wrote:

>>>
>
>I have tried the experiment of going up to the site for a couple hours, 
>and not even opening the door..  Then ask if anyone notices any 
>difference in performance.   :)  You get a feeling for who is going to 
>always report problems, and who will report big improvements, where 
>there are none.
>
>  
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Chuck Kelsey]

Never underestimate the power of suggestion.

Chuck
WB2EDV



Dave VanHorn wrote:

>>>
>
>I have tried the experiment of going up to the site for a couple hours, 
>and not even opening the door..  Then ask if anyone notices any 
>difference in performance.   :)  You get a feeling for who is going to 
>always report problems, and who will report big improvements, where 
>there are none.
>
>  
>





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[dalite01]

I could fix that problem with a short piece of Scotch 33 Black over the
reporting station's S-Meter :)



Mike Morris wrote:
> Based on the reports, the 6" to 9" high weeds were having an effect 
> best described as being anywhere between  -6db and +10db.
> 
> Mike WA6ILQ
> 

>> Mike Morris wrote:
>>> Locally the Forest Service requires twice a year weed whacking 
>>> around the building. So we go up, open the door, plug in the 
>>> extension cords, do the deed, and leave.  Then we announce that we 
>>> spent all day working at the site (but we don't say what we did).
>>>
>>> It's amazing the reports we get...
>>>
>>> Mike WA6ILQ






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Nate Duehr]

Mike Morris wrote:
> Well, the community RX antenna was at 120 feet (transmission-line
> powered preamp up the ass of the antenna), and the transmit
> antenna was at 80 feet...
> 
> Based on the reports, the 6" to 9" high weeds were having an effect
> best described as being anywhere between  -6db and +10db.
> 
> Mike WA6ILQ
> 
> At 12:55 AM 2/13/06, you wrote:
> 
>> Well, exactly how tall WERE the weeds and
>> how far off the ground is your antenna? :-P
>>
>> Joe M.
>>
>> Mike Morris wrote:
>>> Locally the Forest Service requires twice a year weed whacking
>>> around the building. So we go up, open the door, plug in the
>>> extension cords, do the deed, and leave.  Then we announce
>>> that we spent all day working at the site (but we don't say
>>> what we did).
>>>
>>> It's amazing the reports we get...
>>>
>>> Mike WA6ILQ

You guys just made me laugh out loud after a tough day at work.  Awesome.

Nate WY0X




 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[N9WYS]

Mike, I think the original question was supposed to be how *high* is your
antenna...   Think Cheech and Chong; "Oh wow, Man!!"

Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:18 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

Well, the community RX antenna was at 120 feet (transmission-line
powered preamp up the ass of the antenna), and the transmit
antenna was at 80 feet...

Based on the reports, the 6" to 9" high weeds were having an effect
best described as being anywhere between  -6db and +10db.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 12:55 AM 2/13/06, you wrote:

>Well, exactly how tall WERE the weeds and
>how far off the ground is your antenna? :-P
>
>Joe M.
>
>Mike Morris wrote:
> >
> > Locally the Forest Service requires twice a year weed whacking
> > around the building. So we go up, open the door, plug in the
> > extension cords, do the deed, and leave.  Then we announce
> > that we spent all day working at the site (but we don't say
> > what we did).
> >
> > It's amazing the reports we get...
> >
> > Mike WA6ILQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Mike Morris]

Well, the community RX antenna was at 120 feet (transmission-line
powered preamp up the ass of the antenna), and the transmit
antenna was at 80 feet...

Based on the reports, the 6" to 9" high weeds were having an effect
best described as being anywhere between  -6db and +10db.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 12:55 AM 2/13/06, you wrote:

>Well, exactly how tall WERE the weeds and
>how far off the ground is your antenna? :-P
>
>Joe M.
>
>Mike Morris wrote:
> >
> > Locally the Forest Service requires twice a year weed whacking
> > around the building. So we go up, open the door, plug in the
> > extension cords, do the deed, and leave.  Then we announce
> > that we spent all day working at the site (but we don't say
> > what we did).
> >
> > It's amazing the reports we get...
> >
> > Mike WA6ILQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[mch]

Well, exactly how tall WERE the weeds and
how far off the ground is your antenna? :-P

Joe M.

Mike Morris wrote:
> 
> Locally the Forest Service requires twice a year weed whacking
> around the building. So we go up, open the door, plug in the
> extension cords, do the deed, and leave.  Then we announce
> that we spent all day working at the site (but we don't say
> what we did).
> 
> It's amazing the reports we get...
> 
> Mike WA6ILQ





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Mike Morris]

At 04:30 PM 2/12/06, you wrote:

> > > >Chances are nobody will notice.  But then again, they
> > > probably wouldn't
> > > >notice if you put a 3 dB pad between your duplexer and
> > > receiver either...
>
>I have tried the experiment of going up to the site for a couple hours,
>and not even opening the door..  Then ask if anyone notices any
>difference in performance.   :)  You get a feeling for who is going to
>always report problems, and who will report big improvements, where
>there are none.

Yep.
Locally the Forest Service requires twice a year weed whacking
around the building. So we go up, open the door, plug in the
extension cords, do the deed, and leave.  Then we announce
that we spent all day working at the site (but we don't say
what we did).

It's amazing the reports we get...

Mike WA6ILQ





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Kevin King]

That has nothing to do with what is under the hood! :>

but now I have digressed beyond the horizon!

Kevin King SCSA BSCIS
ARS KC6OVD
GMRS KAG0378
EIEIO 2722
Acworth Georgia


While we are digressing, I guess all them sleeping truckers are Wet 
Stacking too.







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Mark Tomany]

Why use Heliax?  'Cause we can!  hehehe  (In my case, I have someone else footing the bill, and they have SPOOLS of Heliax available, so...)   Just another observation regarding my use of the power I mentioned: I have an area where even mobile coverage is poor, and the extra power has allowed me to obtain better coverage in the area in question.  BTW - this region is only about 15 miles WNW from the tower...    Everyone, please don't worry about offending me - I'm always willing to learn!  Besides, I'm enjoying this thread!  Mark - N9WYS     Laryn Lohman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  We could all probably save a lot of money by using RG142 or RG214going up the tower. Why does anyone use Heliax anyway?? Just athought...Chuck, I
 suspect that many users may not notice a 6db drop. But somewill. It'll depend on where they operate within the coverage area. And just because some don't, doesn't mean that I will not be on aconstant mission to make and keep any repeater that I take care of thebest, RF-wise, that I can.Laryn K8TVZ













  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Power

[Mike Morris]

At 09:13 PM 2/11/06, Laryn K8TVZ wrote:
>
> > I guess I'll modify the challenge. Drop the 200 watt transmitter by 6 dB
> > and see if it gets noticed. Bench tests are a good yardstick. Real world
> > applications can be different.
> >
> > Chuck
> > WB2EDV
>
>We could all probably save a lot of money by using RG142 or RG214
>going up the tower.  Why does anyone use Heliax anyway??  Just a
>thought...
>
>Chuck, I suspect that many users may not notice a 6db drop.  But some
>will.  It'll depend on where they operate within the coverage area.

Very true.  Many years ago a local machine had the PA die.
The owner pulled the PA deck and brought it down off of the hill.
This was on Santiago Peak  (pronounced San-tee-ahh-go, for the
non-california members) at about 5,000 feet.
As an afterthought, and only because it was simple to do, he
patched the Mastr II exciter to the duplexer... instead of 90w to
the duplexer it was under 1w.
It was absolutely amazing just how much coverage the system
had considering the loss of the isolator, pass cavity, duplexer
and feedline.

>And just because some don't, doesn't mean that I will not be on a
>constant mission to make and keep any repeater that I take care
>of the best, RF-wise, that I can.

This discussion brings to mind the points made on the web page
at ...
and they apply to 6db as well as to 3db...

"The quieting curve of an FM receiver is very non-linear.   3 dB will
make a very noticeable difference if the signal is well into the noise,
barely any or none at all if it's strong.   The result is that a 3 db
improvement will in most cases approximately double your range."

"A 3 dB change in power is not noticeable or barely noticeable _if the
signal is already well out of the noise_. However, in areas where you
are trying to push repeater coverage from a given site to the limits,
3 dB is significant on the outer fringes and in the problem areas. I say
this from personal experience; I have seen a 3 dB change in repeater
power or antenna gain make a significant and consistent improvement
in fringe/weak areas. It can be enough to make the difference between
the repeater being usable or not...   I call that significant."

Mike WA6ILQ





 
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