Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

2019-11-28 Thread Bill Putney 

Lorne,

Yes, a mirrored pair of 4 or 6 TB drives are not so pricey these days. 
When we last did this, we were in the middle of the great hard drive 
famine (in the wake a massive flooding in Thailand) and drive prices 
were pretty high. If they were going to retrofit an existing computer 
that didn't have a lot of storage slots, an external drive bay would be 
the easiest thing to do. If the external drive box provides JBOD over 
USB, using UUID's for the drive assignments solves the sometimes random 
way USB devices are attached and named. I hear trouble with USB 
strangeness in the Windoz world than I do in Linux land. But, there are 
a lot of drive boxes available with ESATA connections and that is 
probably a more reliable interface.


If you had an ESATA connected 4 bay external box, you could put a pair 
of 250 GB SSDs mirrored as the boot drive and a pair of 6 TB spinning 
drives mirrored for the /var/snd volume. Then if you have a spare 
computer, you can just do a fast swap if a power supply dies or the MB 
develops a glitch.


We have a mostly digital environment at KPTZ. Our first Rivendell 
clients used $30 eBay USB to S/PDIF for audio outputs. Those connected 
right to our boards as AES/EBU inputs and worked great until Centos 
forgot to include the drivers for the chips in them in one revision. 
That forced us into buying ASI cards. Didn't sound different on the air 
but cost substantially more.


- Bill

On 11/28/19 10:13 AM, Lorne Tyndale wrote:

Bill,

That's overall good advice, the only things I'd add is that I'm not a
big fan of Raid 5, I prefer Raid 1 which provides as full 1:1 mirror for
better redundancy and robustness.  When hard disks cost a lot I could
see the benefit of Raid 5 giving you a little more storage space between
the same number of drives at the cost of a longer rebuild time and the
potential of a bigger loss if more then one drive failed.  But as has
been pointed out, hard disk storage is cheap these days, I don't see the
benefit of doing a Raid 5 array any more.

As mentioned, it is still important to have a full backup strategy.

I'm also not a fan of using USB for primary /var/snd storage.  I've had
too many instances where the USB connection drops, the cable comes lose
over time, or similar.  USB is fine if you're running it as an external
backup drive or portable storage, but I would avoid relying on USB for a
mission critical playout system.  In my view it is just running too much
of a risk.  For similar reasons I don't like using USB sound cards for
primary on-air (or other mission critical) use.

Just my $0.02

Lorne Tyndale




I actually prefer to have /var/snd on a completely separate volume. If
you have the physical space to do it, I'd mirror the existing 1.5 TB
drive and build a RAID5 array for /var/snd. You could get an external 4
drive USB bay to store /var/snd. Playback of stereo audio needs less
than 1 Mbps, so USB wouldn't be challenged that much.

An automation system is not something you can easily rebuild quickly. It
pays to have it be fault tolerant to start with. We also rsync backup of
the entire system to a separate computer. It might be a little paranoid,
but it's relatively low cost insurance. Our Rivendell system has now
grown to a number of client stations from a single server. There's
really only 2 clients that playback. The other clients are used to
ingest content and build logs. We've really hardened the server. A
replacement client can be cloned on short notice and the failure of a
single client isn't going to cripple the operation.

- Bill

On 11/28/19 3:16 AM, drew Roberts wrote:

Mark,

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock
mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>> wrote:

 So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I
 want to run compressed files. I wish I had known this going into
 this. The Rivendell System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive.
 Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for music stations that
 want to store uncompressed files.


"

 Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I
 clone the 1.5 TB drive?

"

You do not have to do either.

You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it
somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive.
Now *mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount
on boot.

all the best,

drew

 If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
 /dev/mapper/centos-root?

 Thanks,

 Mark Murdock

 KAMB

 90 E. 16^th St.

 Merced, CA 95340

 (209) 723-1015

 m...@celebrationradio.com 

 Website 


all the best,

drew
--
Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
*Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/

___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org

Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

2019-11-28 Thread Lorne Tyndale 
Bill,

That's overall good advice, the only things I'd add is that I'm not a
big fan of Raid 5, I prefer Raid 1 which provides as full 1:1 mirror for
better redundancy and robustness.  When hard disks cost a lot I could
see the benefit of Raid 5 giving you a little more storage space between
the same number of drives at the cost of a longer rebuild time and the
potential of a bigger loss if more then one drive failed.  But as has
been pointed out, hard disk storage is cheap these days, I don't see the
benefit of doing a Raid 5 array any more.

As mentioned, it is still important to have a full backup strategy.

I'm also not a fan of using USB for primary /var/snd storage.  I've had
too many instances where the USB connection drops, the cable comes lose
over time, or similar.  USB is fine if you're running it as an external
backup drive or portable storage, but I would avoid relying on USB for a
mission critical playout system.  In my view it is just running too much
of a risk.  For similar reasons I don't like using USB sound cards for
primary on-air (or other mission critical) use.

Just my $0.02

Lorne Tyndale


> 
> 
> I actually prefer to have /var/snd on a completely separate volume. If 
> you have the physical space to do it, I'd mirror the existing 1.5 TB 
> drive and build a RAID5 array for /var/snd. You could get an external 4 
> drive USB bay to store /var/snd. Playback of stereo audio needs less 
> than 1 Mbps, so USB wouldn't be challenged that much.
> 
> An automation system is not something you can easily rebuild quickly. It 
> pays to have it be fault tolerant to start with. We also rsync backup of 
> the entire system to a separate computer. It might be a little paranoid, 
> but it's relatively low cost insurance. Our Rivendell system has now 
> grown to a number of client stations from a single server. There's 
> really only 2 clients that playback. The other clients are used to 
> ingest content and build logs. We've really hardened the server. A 
> replacement client can be cloned on short notice and the failure of a 
> single client isn't going to cripple the operation.
> 
> - Bill
> 
> On 11/28/19 3:16 AM, drew Roberts wrote:
> > Mark,
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock 
> > mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>> wrote:
> >
> > So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I
> > want to run compressed files. I wish I had known this going into
> > this. The Rivendell System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive.
> > Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for music stations that
> > want to store uncompressed files.
> >
> >
> > "
> >
> > Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I
> > clone the 1.5 TB drive?
> >
> > "
> >
> > You do not have to do either.
> >
> > You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it 
> > somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive. 
> > Now *mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount 
> > on boot.
> >
> > all the best,
> >
> > drew
> >
> > If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
> > /dev/mapper/centos-root?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark Murdock
> >
> > KAMB
> >
> > 90 E. 16^th St.
> >
> > Merced, CA 95340
> >
> > (209) 723-1015
> >
> > m...@celebrationradio.com 
> >
> > Website 
> >
> >
> > all the best,
> >
> > drew
> > -- 
> > Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
> > *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/
> >
> > ___
> > Rivendell-dev mailing list
> > Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
> 
> -- 
> Bill Putney - WB6RFW
> 
> District 2 Commissioner - Port of Port Townsend
> Chief Engineer - KPTZ
> El Jefe de Contenido - Port Townsend Film Festival
> Private Pilot-Single Engine Land | Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic / 
> Inspection Authorization___
> Rivendell-dev mailing list
> Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

2019-11-28 Thread Bill Putney 
I actually prefer to have /var/snd on a completely separate volume. If 
you have the physical space to do it, I'd mirror the existing 1.5 TB 
drive and build a RAID5 array for /var/snd. You could get an external 4 
drive USB bay to store /var/snd. Playback of stereo audio needs less 
than 1 Mbps, so USB wouldn't be challenged that much.


An automation system is not something you can easily rebuild quickly. It 
pays to have it be fault tolerant to start with. We also rsync backup of 
the entire system to a separate computer. It might be a little paranoid, 
but it's relatively low cost insurance. Our Rivendell system has now 
grown to a number of client stations from a single server. There's 
really only 2 clients that playback. The other clients are used to 
ingest content and build logs. We've really hardened the server. A 
replacement client can be cloned on short notice and the failure of a 
single client isn't going to cripple the operation.


- Bill

On 11/28/19 3:16 AM, drew Roberts wrote:

Mark,

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock 
mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>> wrote:


So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I
want to run compressed files. I wish I had known this going into
this. The Rivendell System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive.
Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for music stations that
want to store uncompressed files.


"

Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I
clone the 1.5 TB drive?

"

You do not have to do either.

You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it 
somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive. 
Now *mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount 
on boot.


all the best,

drew

If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
/dev/mapper/centos-root?

Thanks,

Mark Murdock

KAMB

90 E. 16^th St.

Merced, CA 95340

(209) 723-1015

m...@celebrationradio.com 

Website 


all the best,

drew
--
Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
*Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/

___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev


--
Bill Putney - WB6RFW

District 2 Commissioner - Port of Port Townsend
Chief Engineer - KPTZ
El Jefe de Contenido - Port Townsend Film Festival
Private Pilot-Single Engine Land | Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic / Inspection 
Authorization

___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

Re: [RDD] RDImport

2019-11-28 Thread Cowboy 
On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:18:53 -0500
"R. Choy"  wrote:

> In /var is the symbolic link:
> lrwxrwxrwx.  1 rivendell rivendell    9 Dec 16  2018 snd -> /sda4/snd
> Is this right?

 That part is fine. It's correct/

 What I'm not seeing in the rest, ( though the e-mail comes through badly 
formatted )is a disk
 mounted on /sda4/snd in the / directory !

 I do see
 /boot/efi/dev/sda2   100G   60G   41G  60% /home/dev/sda4
 in which case ( although the sda2 and sda4 seem wrong ) the symlink should be
 lrwxrwxrwx.  1 rivendell rivendell    9 Dec 16  2018 snd -> /home/dev/sda4/snd
 
 I will say that /home/dev is confusing in itself.

-- 
Cowboy 

Grief is the Reminder that we Loved.
 And were Loved.
___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

Re: [RDD] RDImport

2019-11-28 Thread R. Choy 

Here's a snapshot after I issue a cd /var/snd and ls

040220_001.wav  040454_001.wav  040644_001.wav  040863_001.wav 
060001_008.wav
040221_001.wav  040455_001.wav  040644_002.wav  040864_001.wav 
060001_009.wav
040222_001.wav  040456_001.wav  040644_003.wav  040865_001.wav 
060001_010.wav
040223_001.wav  040457_001.wav  040644_004.wav  040866_001.wav 
060001_011.wav

040224_001.wav  040458_001.wav  040644_005.wav  040867_001.wav
040225_001.wav  040459_001.wav  040644_006.wav  040868_001.wav
040226_001.wav  040460_001.wav  040644_007.wav  040869_001.wav
[rd@sgospel snd]$

And also a df-h
[rd@sgospel snd]$ df -h
Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda3    25G  3.8G   22G  15% /
devtmpfs    3.8G 0  3.8G   0% /dev
tmpfs   3.8G   44K  3.8G   1% /dev/shm
tmpfs   3.8G   33M  3.8G   1% /run
tmpfs   3.8G 0  3.8G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/sda1  1014M   33M  982M   4% /boot/efi
/dev/sda2   100G   60G   41G  60% /home
/dev/sda4   1.7T   42G  1.6T   3% /sda4
tmpfs   770M  4.0K  770M   1% /run/user/1000

In /var is the symbolic link:

lrwxrwxrwx.  1 rivendell rivendell    9 Dec 16  2018 snd -> /sda4/snd

Is this right?

Rick


On 11/28/2019 7:53 AM, Cowboy wrote:

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:35:23 -0500
"R. Choy"  wrote:


There is no "mounted on" /var/snd  only a symbolic link pointing to /sda4 in 
the old
existing /var/snd

  Important distinction...

  symbolic link pointing to /sda4 in the old

  or

  symbolic link pointing to /sda4 **IS** the old

  ??


___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

Re: [RDD] RDImport

2019-11-28 Thread Cowboy 
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:35:23 -0500
"R. Choy"  wrote:

> There is no "mounted on" /var/snd  only a symbolic link pointing to /sda4 in 
> the old
> existing /var/snd

 Important distinction...

 symbolic link pointing to /sda4 in the old

 or

 symbolic link pointing to /sda4 **IS** the old

 ??

-- 
Cowboy 

Grief is the Reminder that we Loved.
 And were Loved.
___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

2019-11-28 Thread drew Roberts 
Mark,

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock 
wrote:

> So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I want to run
> compressed files. I wish I had known this going into this. The Rivendell
> System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive. Maybe that should be bumped up to
> 4 TB for music stations that want to store uncompressed files.
>

"

> Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I clone the
> 1.5 TB drive?
>
"

You do not have to do either.

You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it
somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive. Now
*mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount on boot.

all the best,

drew

If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
> /dev/mapper/centos-root?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Mark Murdock
>
> KAMB
>
> 90 E. 16th St.
>
> Merced, CA 95340
>
> (209) 723-1015
>
> m...@celebrationradio.com
>
> Website 
>
>
> all the best,

drew
-- 
Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
*Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/
___
Rivendell-dev mailing list
Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev