Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[nathaniel.steele]

Doeas anyone here have any opinions on ZFS? Does anyone host their /var/snd on 
a NAS? I’ve been looking at building a  freenas system to use around the 
office, which use ZFS.

 

In the past I used two Rivendell servers, with one rsyncing to the other 
nightly, and backing up the db nightly. I also rsynced to a NAS appliance, so 
the data lived in three places.

 

From: rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org 
 On Behalf Of Alan Smith
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 7:03 PM
To: User discussion about the Rivendell Radio Automation System 

Subject: Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

 

Again, still consider myself very new to this, but what I have started to do is 
use Raid1, and setup postfix to send email/text failure notifications. 

 

I haven't had a real failure yet, but during testing (including simulated 
failure on the bench) it works pretty well.

 

-Alan

 

On 11/30/2019 6:47 PM, Rob Landry wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019, Lorne Tyndale wrote: 




That's overall good advice, the only things I'd add is that I'm not a 
big fan of Raid 5, I prefer Raid 1 which provides as full 1:1 mirror for 
better redundancy and robustness.  When hard disks cost a lot I could 


I don't like RAID at all. I prefer to build a second, fully functioning RD 
machine and have it mirror the first one. If I lose the first one, I switch to 
the backup. 

My problem with RAID boils down to the reality that most of the RD systems I 
build are for stations with no resident technical person. If a drive in a RAID 
array fails, no one will notice. I'll hear about it when a second drive fails 
and the station goes off the air. 


Rob 





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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Steve Varholy]

Neat!

Sent from my Sprint Phone.

-- Original message--
From: Sébastien Leblanc
Date: Sat, Nov 30, 2019 9:50 PM
To: Rivendell Users Group;
Cc:
Subject:Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

On 19-11-27 12 h 16, Steve Varholy wrote:
Mark:

Add another drive, move/copy /var/snd to it and create a symbolic link to the 
new location. Done.



You can also use UnionFS to overlay a new filesystem on a new drive on top of 
the old filesystem. The old filesystem effectively becomes read-only as the 
writes are all redirected to the new filesystem. This lets you progressively 
move old files to the new drive, without any downtime, assuming your system 
supports hotplugging of new drives.


Sébastien
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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Sébastien Leblanc]

On 19-11-27 12 h 16, Steve Varholy wrote:
> Mark: 
>
> Add another drive, move/copy /var/snd to it and create a symbolic link
> to the new location. Done.
>

You can also use UnionFS to overlay a new filesystem on a new drive on
top of the old filesystem. The old filesystem effectively becomes
read-only as the writes are all redirected to the new filesystem. This
lets you progressively move old files to the new drive, without any
downtime, assuming your system supports hotplugging of new drives.


Sébastien

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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Alan Smith]

Again, still consider myself very new to this, but what I have started 
to do is use Raid1, and setup postfix to send email/text failure 
notifications.


I haven't had a real failure yet, but during testing (including 
simulated failure on the bench) it works pretty well.


-Alan

On 11/30/2019 6:47 PM, Rob Landry wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019, Lorne Tyndale wrote:


That's overall good advice, the only things I'd add is that I'm not a
big fan of Raid 5, I prefer Raid 1 which provides as full 1:1 mirror for
better redundancy and robustness.  When hard disks cost a lot I could


I don't like RAID at all. I prefer to build a second, fully 
functioning RD machine and have it mirror the first one. If I lose the 
first one, I switch to the backup.


My problem with RAID boils down to the reality that most of the RD 
systems I build are for stations with no resident technical person. If 
a drive in a RAID array fails, no one will notice. I'll hear about it 
when a second drive fails and the station goes off the air.



Rob


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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Rob Landry]

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019, Lorne Tyndale wrote:


That's overall good advice, the only things I'd add is that I'm not a
big fan of Raid 5, I prefer Raid 1 which provides as full 1:1 mirror for
better redundancy and robustness.  When hard disks cost a lot I could


I don't like RAID at all. I prefer to build a second, fully functioning RD 
machine and have it mirror the first one. If I lose the first one, I 
switch to the backup.


My problem with RAID boils down to the reality that most of the RD systems 
I build are for stations with no resident technical person. If a drive in 
a RAID array fails, no one will notice. I'll hear about it when a second 
drive fails and the station goes off the air.



Rob

--
Сквозь грозы сияло нам солнце свободы
И Linus великий нам путь озарил;
Нас вырастил Stallman на верность народу,
На труд и на подвиги нас вдохновил.


see the benefit of Raid 5 giving you a little more storage space between
the same number of drives at the cost of a longer rebuild time and the
potential of a bigger loss if more then one drive failed.  But as has
been pointed out, hard disk storage is cheap these days, I don't see the
benefit of doing a Raid 5 array any more.

As mentioned, it is still important to have a full backup strategy.

I'm also not a fan of using USB for primary /var/snd storage.  I've had
too many instances where the USB connection drops, the cable comes lose
over time, or similar.  USB is fine if you're running it as an external
backup drive or portable storage, but I would avoid relying on USB for a
mission critical playout system.  In my view it is just running too much
of a risk.  For similar reasons I don't like using USB sound cards for
primary on-air (or other mission critical) use.

Just my $0.02

Lorne Tyndale





I actually prefer to have /var/snd on a completely separate volume. If 
you have the physical space to do it, I'd mirror the existing 1.5 TB 
drive and build a RAID5 array for /var/snd. You could get an external 4 
drive USB bay to store /var/snd. Playback of stereo audio needs less 
than 1 Mbps, so USB wouldn't be challenged that much.


An automation system is not something you can easily rebuild quickly. It 
pays to have it be fault tolerant to start with. We also rsync backup of 
the entire system to a separate computer. It might be a little paranoid, 
but it's relatively low cost insurance. Our Rivendell system has now 
grown to a number of client stations from a single server. There's 
really only 2 clients that playback. The other clients are used to 
ingest content and build logs. We've really hardened the server. A 
replacement client can be cloned on short notice and the failure of a 
single client isn't going to cripple the operation.


- Bill

On 11/28/19 3:16 AM, drew Roberts wrote:
> Mark,
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock 
> mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>> wrote:

>
> So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I
> want to run compressed files. I wish I had known this going into
> this. The Rivendell System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive.
> Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for music stations that
> want to store uncompressed files.
>
>
> "
>
> Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I
> clone the 1.5 TB drive?
>
> "
>
> You do not have to do either.
>
> You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it 
> somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive. 
> Now *mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount 
> on boot.

>
> all the best,
>
> drew
>
> If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
> /dev/mapper/centos-root?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Murdock
>
> KAMB
>
> 90 E. 16^th St.
>
> Merced, CA 95340
>
> (209) 723-1015
>
> m...@celebrationradio.com 
>
> Website 
>
>
> all the best,
>
> drew
> -- 
> Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing

> *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/
>
> ___
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> Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

--
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Chief Engineer - KPTZ
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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Bill Putney]

Lorne,

Yes, a mirrored pair of 4 or 6 TB drives are not so pricey these days. 
When we last did this, we were in the middle of the great hard drive 
famine (in the wake a massive flooding in Thailand) and drive prices 
were pretty high. If they were going to retrofit an existing computer 
that didn't have a lot of storage slots, an external drive bay would be 
the easiest thing to do. If the external drive box provides JBOD over 
USB, using UUID's for the drive assignments solves the sometimes random 
way USB devices are attached and named. I hear trouble with USB 
strangeness in the Windoz world than I do in Linux land. But, there are 
a lot of drive boxes available with ESATA connections and that is 
probably a more reliable interface.


If you had an ESATA connected 4 bay external box, you could put a pair 
of 250 GB SSDs mirrored as the boot drive and a pair of 6 TB spinning 
drives mirrored for the /var/snd volume. Then if you have a spare 
computer, you can just do a fast swap if a power supply dies or the MB 
develops a glitch.


We have a mostly digital environment at KPTZ. Our first Rivendell 
clients used $30 eBay USB to S/PDIF for audio outputs. Those connected 
right to our boards as AES/EBU inputs and worked great until Centos 
forgot to include the drivers for the chips in them in one revision. 
That forced us into buying ASI cards. Didn't sound different on the air 
but cost substantially more.


- Bill

On 11/28/19 10:13 AM, Lorne Tyndale wrote:

Bill,

That's overall good advice, the only things I'd add is that I'm not a
big fan of Raid 5, I prefer Raid 1 which provides as full 1:1 mirror for
better redundancy and robustness.  When hard disks cost a lot I could
see the benefit of Raid 5 giving you a little more storage space between
the same number of drives at the cost of a longer rebuild time and the
potential of a bigger loss if more then one drive failed.  But as has
been pointed out, hard disk storage is cheap these days, I don't see the
benefit of doing a Raid 5 array any more.

As mentioned, it is still important to have a full backup strategy.

I'm also not a fan of using USB for primary /var/snd storage.  I've had
too many instances where the USB connection drops, the cable comes lose
over time, or similar.  USB is fine if you're running it as an external
backup drive or portable storage, but I would avoid relying on USB for a
mission critical playout system.  In my view it is just running too much
of a risk.  For similar reasons I don't like using USB sound cards for
primary on-air (or other mission critical) use.

Just my $0.02

Lorne Tyndale




I actually prefer to have /var/snd on a completely separate volume. If
you have the physical space to do it, I'd mirror the existing 1.5 TB
drive and build a RAID5 array for /var/snd. You could get an external 4
drive USB bay to store /var/snd. Playback of stereo audio needs less
than 1 Mbps, so USB wouldn't be challenged that much.

An automation system is not something you can easily rebuild quickly. It
pays to have it be fault tolerant to start with. We also rsync backup of
the entire system to a separate computer. It might be a little paranoid,
but it's relatively low cost insurance. Our Rivendell system has now
grown to a number of client stations from a single server. There's
really only 2 clients that playback. The other clients are used to
ingest content and build logs. We've really hardened the server. A
replacement client can be cloned on short notice and the failure of a
single client isn't going to cripple the operation.

- Bill

On 11/28/19 3:16 AM, drew Roberts wrote:

Mark,

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock
mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>> wrote:

 So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I
 want to run compressed files. I wish I had known this going into
 this. The Rivendell System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive.
 Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for music stations that
 want to store uncompressed files.


"

 Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I
 clone the 1.5 TB drive?

"

You do not have to do either.

You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it
somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive.
Now *mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount
on boot.

all the best,

drew

 If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
 /dev/mapper/centos-root?

 Thanks,

 Mark Murdock

 KAMB

 90 E. 16^th St.

 Merced, CA 95340

 (209) 723-1015

 m...@celebrationradio.com 

 Website 


all the best,

drew
--
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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Lorne Tyndale]

Bill,

That's overall good advice, the only things I'd add is that I'm not a
big fan of Raid 5, I prefer Raid 1 which provides as full 1:1 mirror for
better redundancy and robustness.  When hard disks cost a lot I could
see the benefit of Raid 5 giving you a little more storage space between
the same number of drives at the cost of a longer rebuild time and the
potential of a bigger loss if more then one drive failed.  But as has
been pointed out, hard disk storage is cheap these days, I don't see the
benefit of doing a Raid 5 array any more.

As mentioned, it is still important to have a full backup strategy.

I'm also not a fan of using USB for primary /var/snd storage.  I've had
too many instances where the USB connection drops, the cable comes lose
over time, or similar.  USB is fine if you're running it as an external
backup drive or portable storage, but I would avoid relying on USB for a
mission critical playout system.  In my view it is just running too much
of a risk.  For similar reasons I don't like using USB sound cards for
primary on-air (or other mission critical) use.

Just my $0.02

Lorne Tyndale


> 
> 
> I actually prefer to have /var/snd on a completely separate volume. If 
> you have the physical space to do it, I'd mirror the existing 1.5 TB 
> drive and build a RAID5 array for /var/snd. You could get an external 4 
> drive USB bay to store /var/snd. Playback of stereo audio needs less 
> than 1 Mbps, so USB wouldn't be challenged that much.
> 
> An automation system is not something you can easily rebuild quickly. It 
> pays to have it be fault tolerant to start with. We also rsync backup of 
> the entire system to a separate computer. It might be a little paranoid, 
> but it's relatively low cost insurance. Our Rivendell system has now 
> grown to a number of client stations from a single server. There's 
> really only 2 clients that playback. The other clients are used to 
> ingest content and build logs. We've really hardened the server. A 
> replacement client can be cloned on short notice and the failure of a 
> single client isn't going to cripple the operation.
> 
> - Bill
> 
> On 11/28/19 3:16 AM, drew Roberts wrote:
> > Mark,
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock 
> > mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>> wrote:
> >
> > So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I
> > want to run compressed files. I wish I had known this going into
> > this. The Rivendell System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive.
> > Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for music stations that
> > want to store uncompressed files.
> >
> >
> > "
> >
> > Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I
> > clone the 1.5 TB drive?
> >
> > "
> >
> > You do not have to do either.
> >
> > You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it 
> > somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive. 
> > Now *mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount 
> > on boot.
> >
> > all the best,
> >
> > drew
> >
> > If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
> > /dev/mapper/centos-root?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark Murdock
> >
> > KAMB
> >
> > 90 E. 16^th St.
> >
> > Merced, CA 95340
> >
> > (209) 723-1015
> >
> > m...@celebrationradio.com 
> >
> > Website 
> >
> >
> > all the best,
> >
> > drew
> > -- 
> > Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
> > *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/
> >
> > ___
> > Rivendell-dev mailing list
> > Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
> 
> -- 
> Bill Putney - WB6RFW
> 
> District 2 Commissioner - Port of Port Townsend
> Chief Engineer - KPTZ
> El Jefe de Contenido - Port Townsend Film Festival
> Private Pilot-Single Engine Land | Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic / 
> Inspection Authorization___
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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Bill Putney]

I actually prefer to have /var/snd on a completely separate volume. If 
you have the physical space to do it, I'd mirror the existing 1.5 TB 
drive and build a RAID5 array for /var/snd. You could get an external 4 
drive USB bay to store /var/snd. Playback of stereo audio needs less 
than 1 Mbps, so USB wouldn't be challenged that much.


An automation system is not something you can easily rebuild quickly. It 
pays to have it be fault tolerant to start with. We also rsync backup of 
the entire system to a separate computer. It might be a little paranoid, 
but it's relatively low cost insurance. Our Rivendell system has now 
grown to a number of client stations from a single server. There's 
really only 2 clients that playback. The other clients are used to 
ingest content and build logs. We've really hardened the server. A 
replacement client can be cloned on short notice and the failure of a 
single client isn't going to cripple the operation.


- Bill

On 11/28/19 3:16 AM, drew Roberts wrote:

Mark,

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock 
mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>> wrote:


So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I
want to run compressed files. I wish I had known this going into
this. The Rivendell System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive.
Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for music stations that
want to store uncompressed files.


"

Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I
clone the 1.5 TB drive?

"

You do not have to do either.

You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it 
somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive. 
Now *mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount 
on boot.


all the best,

drew

If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
/dev/mapper/centos-root?

Thanks,

Mark Murdock

KAMB

90 E. 16^th St.

Merced, CA 95340

(209) 723-1015

m...@celebrationradio.com 

Website 


all the best,

drew
--
Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
*Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/

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--
Bill Putney - WB6RFW

District 2 Commissioner - Port of Port Townsend
Chief Engineer - KPTZ
El Jefe de Contenido - Port Townsend Film Festival
Private Pilot-Single Engine Land | Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic / Inspection 
Authorization

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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[drew Roberts]

Mark,

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:53 AM Mark Murdock 
wrote:

> So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I want to run
> compressed files. I wish I had known this going into this. The Rivendell
> System Requirements specify a 1 TB drive. Maybe that should be bumped up to
> 4 TB for music stations that want to store uncompressed files.
>

"

> Do I have to start over from scratch for the server, or can I clone the
> 1.5 TB drive?
>
"

You do not have to do either.

You can take a 2 to 4 TB drive for instance. Format it and mount it
somewhere temporarily. Copy the audio files in /var/snd to that drive. Now
*mount* that drive as /var/snd. Edit your fstab to make this mount on boot.

all the best,

drew

If I clone the drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on
> /dev/mapper/centos-root?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Mark Murdock
>
> KAMB
>
> 90 E. 16th St.
>
> Merced, CA 95340
>
> (209) 723-1015
>
> m...@celebrationradio.com
>
> Website 
>
>
> all the best,

drew
-- 
Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing
*Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/
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Re: [RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Steve Varholy]

Mark:

Add another drive, move/copy /var/snd to it and create a symbolic link to the 
new location. Done.

In many instances keeping your audio store on a system drive is disfavored. 
That way a system dusc failure only requires a system reimage.



Sent from my Sprint Phone.

-- Original message--
From: Mark Murdock
Date: Wed, Nov 27, 2019 11:53 AM
To: rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org;
Cc:
Subject:[RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I want to run 
compressed files. I wish I had known this going into this. The Rivendell System 
Requirements specify a 1 TB drive. Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for 
music stations that want to store uncompressed files. Do I have to start over 
from scratch for the server, or can I clone the 1.5 TB drive? If I clone the 
drive, won’t it preserve the 50 GB size on /dev/mapper/centos-root?

Thanks,

Mark Murdock
KAMB
90 E. 16th St.
Merced, CA 95340
(209) 723-1015
m...@celebrationradio.com<mailto:m...@celebrationradio.com>
Website<https://celebrationradio.com/>

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[RDD] RDImport and Disk Space

[Mark Murdock]

So apparently, I need a drive much bigger than 1.5 TB unless I want to run 
compressed files. I wish I had known this going into this. The Rivendell System 
Requirements specify a 1 TB drive. Maybe that should be bumped up to 4 TB for 
music stations that want to store uncompressed files. Do I have to start over 
from scratch for the server, or can I clone the 1.5 TB drive? If I clone the 
drive, won't it preserve the 50 GB size on /dev/mapper/centos-root?

Thanks,

Mark Murdock
KAMB
90 E. 16th St.
Merced, CA 95340
(209) 723-1015
m...@celebrationradio.com
Website

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