Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Pierre Schweitzer wrote: Purpose wasn't to be rude or whatever. Just keep in mind we aren't all English native-speakers and we may not have the same understanding of that language than yours. My fault, I probably just read your mail in the wrong context after a long day at work. I do however think it's a good idea to approach the foundation with a request for a copy of 2k3, if you think it'll help the project. Prices on ebay seem fairly reasonable. Ged. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Ged Murphy wrote: I do however think it's a good idea to approach the foundation with a request for a copy of 2k3, if you think it'll help the project. The idea was to get a copy (or two) of Windows Home Server. To make my long story in http://www.reactos.org/pipermail/ros-dev/2011-January/013809.html short: It is NT5.2-based and we comply with the EULA if we don't use RDP but mirror its console session over VNC. The price for a single new copy of WHS would be ~90 EUR, which is why I even began thinking about getting two copies (development + buildslave/testslave). - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Yeah that does make sense. However my point was, if only Pierre is going to use it why not just get him his own copy. A local copy running in vmware is much more useful as you have a reliable com connection for a kernel debugger. I asked the question before, 'would anyone use a remote copy?' and only Pierre seemed keen. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 19 January 2011 16:19 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Ged Murphy wrote: I do however think it's a good idea to approach the foundation with a request for a copy of 2k3, if you think it'll help the project. The idea was to get a copy (or two) of Windows Home Server. To make my long story in http://www.reactos.org/pipermail/ros-dev/2011-January/013809.html short: It is NT5.2-based and we comply with the EULA if we don't use RDP but mirror its console session over VNC. The price for a single new copy of WHS would be ~90 EUR, which is why I even began thinking about getting two copies (development + buildslave/testslave). - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Am 19.01.2011 18:04, schrieb Pierre Schweitzer: Yeah that does make sense. However my point was, if only Pierre is going to use it why not just get him his own copy. True point. I actually thought I am not the only to practise test-based dev. But looking at the (lack of) comments, it seems I am. Taking that into account, it is not up to me to decide. I think you are making the wrong conclusions. My point on this issue is pretty much like Geds, nothing to add. And speaking of test based development: Of course I am making tests, but Windows XP and Windows 7 are just fine for that, unless you test some very specific kernel stuff. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:15 PM, Timo Kreuzer wrote: Am 19.01.2011 18:04, schrieb Pierre Schweitzer: Yeah that does make sense. However my point was, if only Pierre is going to use it why not just get him his own copy. True point. I actually thought I am not the only to practise test- based dev. But looking at the (lack of) comments, it seems I am. Taking that into account, it is not up to me to decide. I think you are making the wrong conclusions. My point on this issue is pretty much like Geds, nothing to add. And speaking of test based development: Of course I am making tests, but Windows XP and Windows 7 are just fine for that, unless you test some very specific kernel stuff. That's because vast majority of people involved in ReactOS project *at least* dualboots with a Windows installation. And for any Windows driver developer this is obviously a must, since ReactOS is quite far from being the leading development environment :) It would be handy to have a copy of Windows 2003 for leasing, if that's possible. However, installing it at a remotely-accessible location is nearly useless (unless you really want to RDP into a yet another Windows, which has VMWare inside of it, plus a WinDbg, and you want to develop/test drivers this way). My 5 kopeyek. WBR, Aleksey. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
I think it's much more important to have a Windows build machine than it is to have an remote machine devs can use as as a test bed. Would anyone actually use a remote machine for development? I'd expect most devs to already have windows machines, I can't see how can you be a ros/nt dev without access to at least one NT5 box. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 17 January 2011 16:05 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Pierre Schweitzer pierre.schweit...@reactos.org wrote: Then, as I already expressed, I really push that idea. Thanks for stating your opinion here. Come on folks, I'd like to hear your opinions as well. Pierre can't be the only one who still performs testing under Windows. At least I hope so.. ;-) By the way, I also got the idea of using a second Windows Home Server license to regularly run the Winetests against NT 5.2. Would be too bad if they actually contain wrong assumptions and not our code. - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Would anyone actually use a remote machine for development? I'd expect most devs to already have windows machines, I can't see how can you be a ros/nt dev without access to at least one NT5 box. Ged. + 1 Johannes ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Ged Murphy wrote: I think it's much more important to have a Windows build machine than it is to have an remote machine devs can use as as a test bed. Olaf's Windows build slaves are currently being integrated into our BuildBot. As stated, I could also donate and set up a Windows XP license to be used as another Buildslave if there is a need. I can't see how can you be a ros/nt dev without access to at least one NT5 box. Change NT5 to NT5.2 and the list should become quite short. As long as no one proposes a major change, we are still heading for NT5.2 compatibility (at least kernel-wise). And then we have to verify that all our API implementations are not just compatible to some NT5 version but 100% compatible to NT5.2. Encountering an NT5.2-incompatible API can be as easy as testing screensavers (see r28953/r28955). Tell me how to avoid such mistakes in the future if we don't consequently test against NT5.2. - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Colin Finck wrote: Change NT5 to NT5.2 and the list should become quite short. As long as no one proposes a major change, we are still heading for NT5.2 compatibility (at least kernel-wise). And then we have to verify that all our API implementations are not just compatible to some NT5 version but 100% compatible to NT5.2. I think it's more important to test against XP from an API level as that's what most software is installed on Encountering an NT5.2-incompatible API can be as easy as testing screensavers (see r28953/r28955). Tell me how to avoid such mistakes in the future if we don't consequently test against NT5.2. Whilst parts of our kernel try to target 5.2 changes, from a testing perspective it should be pretty much identical to 5.1. IMO, unless you're a kernel dev interested in implementing some of the more elegant kernel features in 5.2, then anyone with a 5.1 box is more than adequately setup and I can't think of any worthwhile advantage in having a 5.2 install. Ged. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Hi, Whilst parts of our kernel try to target 5.2 changes, from a testing perspective it should be pretty much identical to 5.1. IMO, unless you're a kernel dev interested in implementing some of the more elegant kernel features in 5.2, then anyone with a 5.1 box is more than adequately setup and I can't think of any worthwhile advantage in having a 5.2 install. For your information, between NT5.1 and NT5.2, MCBs handling has been rewritten. This is not a minor change, as it brings the idea of base MCB for dealing with large MCBs. Then testing against Windows XP looks just really hazardous for such case. We are targeting Windows 2003 for kernel, why the hell would we test against something else?! Would anyone actually use a remote machine for development? I'd expect most devs to already have windows machines, I can't see how can you be a ros/nt dev without access to at least one NT5 box. Then, to answer that old point. As a ReactOS dev, I personally don't daily use Windows. And yes, I've a Windows devenv available (MSVC, and such) but on Windows 7. Which is no use for such tests. I also have a Windows 2000 available, but once more... It's NT5, so... I keep pushing, it IS useful for the project. Furthermore, how could we explain we implement Windows 2003 without having any Windows 2003 for our devs? Regards, P. Schweitzer ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
I think Ged is refering to MSVC-based buildslave more than just building on Windows. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
On 18 January 2011 18:51, Pierre Schweitzer pierre.schweit...@reactos.org wrote: Hi, Whilst parts of our kernel try to target 5.2 changes, from a testing perspective it should be pretty much identical to 5.1. IMO, unless you're a kernel dev interested in implementing some of the more elegant kernel features in 5.2, then anyone with a 5.1 box is more than adequately setup and I can't think of any worthwhile advantage in having a 5.2 install. For your information, For my information?? You need to start your sentences a little more politely between NT5.1 and NT5.2, MCBs handling has been rewritten. This is not a minor change, as it brings the idea of base MCB for dealing with large MCBs. Then testing against Windows XP looks just really hazardous for such case. We are targeting Windows 2003 for kernel, why the hell would we test against something else?! I started my my point with : unless you're a kernel dev interested in implementing some of the more elegant kernel features in 5.2 of which you and MCB's fit this statement. You're talking about testing mappings via the FsRtl kernel API's, which isn't important to an end user nor 99% of devs who work on reactos. It's a feature you choose to implement with regard to how the control blocks are handled. Would anyone actually use a remote machine for development? I'd expect most devs to already have windows machines, I can't see how can you be a ros/nt dev without access to at least one NT5 box. Then, to answer that old point. Why is that an old point? We've only recently started discussing it. I've a Windows devenv available (MSVC, and such) but on Windows 7. Which is no use for such tests. I also have a Windows 2000 available, but once more... It's NT5, so... I keep pushing, it IS useful for the project. You mean it's useful for you. Furthermore, how could we explain we implement Windows 2003 without having any Windows 2003 for our devs? Most reactos devs aren't kernel devs so that a null argument as we implement the Windows 7 API set in usermode. Secondly, anyone who states that we implement a 2k3 kernel is wrong. Alex used to target 2k3 in the days of his kernel rewrites but the fact is that most of our kernel is very much NT5.1 based (due to the similarities) and in many cases totally different than any of the NT kernels. I'm not sure why you felt the need to be rude/aggressive, perhaps you feel threatened in by my question which now appears to be Would anyone other than Pierre have any use for a (free) remotely available copy of 2k3? If you really need it, you can probably make a good case to the foundation for your own copy. My point is, is it really worth having this online server just for your use when it would be better served as an MSVC build slave which would benefit everyone. Ged ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
For my information?? You need to start your sentences a little more politely Wasn't aware it was that impolite (cf: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/for-your-information-FYI.html). So, s/For your information/If I may bring that point to you Sir. You're talking about testing mappings via the FsRtl kernel API's, which isn't important to an end user nor 99% of devs who work on reactos. It's a feature you choose to implement with regard to how the control blocks are handled. Well... I let you explain to the users that ReactOS will stay at its current state as important features have been implemented. Furthermore, I heard some would like to have ReactOS handle NTFS. Without MCBs, it will be hard. Unless we write our own hackish driver, ofc. Why is that an old point? We've only recently started discussing it. Old point was refering to a point that has been discussed in a previous mail and not the one I was answering to. You mean it's useful for you. Ok. Let's reimplement Windows 2003 without Windows 2003. And next time someone will say Oh! ReactOS is bad, they are stealing code from Microsoft, they are reverse engineering code, we won't be able to answer: You forget we have a Windows 2003 to perform test. Some test-based development ~. And I already often ask Sylvain for tests on Windows 2003 so... Secondly, anyone who states that we implement a 2k3 kernel is wrong. Alex used to target 2k3 in the days of his kernel rewrites but the fact is that most of our kernel is very much NT5.1 based (due to the similarities) and in many cases totally different than any of the NT kernels. As I wrote in my previous mail, we target Windows 2003. But for some obvious reasons (need for quickly implemented working code, for example) not all the parts are Windows NT(5.2) designed. This may explain current driven rewrites... I'm not sure why you felt the need to be rude/aggressive, perhaps you feel threatened in by my question which now appears to be Would anyone other than Pierre have any use for a (free) remotely available copy of 2k3? Purpose wasn't to be rude or whatever. Just keep in mind we aren't all English native-speakers and we may not have the same understanding of that language than yours. If you really need it, you can probably make a good case to the foundation for your own copy. My point is, is it really worth having this online server just for your use when it would be better served as an MSVC build slave which would benefit everyone. Ok, then. Let's forget about that idea. Ged said. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Pierre Schweitzer pierre.schweit...@reactos.org wrote: Then, as I already expressed, I really push that idea. Thanks for stating your opinion here. Come on folks, I'd like to hear your opinions as well. Pierre can't be the only one who still performs testing under Windows. At least I hope so.. ;-) By the way, I also got the idea of using a second Windows Home Server license to regularly run the Winetests against NT 5.2. Would be too bad if they actually contain wrong assumptions and not our code. - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Adam geekdun...@gmail.com wrote: I recall that it also allows two RDP sessions, but then nobody can log into the console without forcing a termination of one of the sessions, and vice versa. I've played around with Windows Home Server and its stripped down version of Windows Server 2003 in the meantime. It allows two RDP sessions _plus_ the console session. I suspect this applies to all Windows Server 2003 editions which don't use additional Terminal Services. Nevertheless, its EULA makes Home Server and the Web Edition de-facto unusable for our purpose over RDP. The Home Server license terms state: You may only use Terminal Services functionality to the extent required to manage the server software in Remote Administration Mode (2d). While the Web Edition doesn't add any RDP-related limits, it puts a general limit on the usage scenarios: The Server Software may be used solely for deployment of Web pages, Web sites, Web applications, Web services, and POP3 mail serving. [...] Any other usage of the Server Software is not permitted (2c) The Standard and Enterprise editions permit the usage of the included two RDP sessions only for administrative purposes as well (3a). If we want to go for RDP, we would still need one of these editions, plus a Windows CAL and a Terminal Services CAL for each user that ever accesses the server. It might be doable, but I consider it way too expensive and hardly manageable for us. Gladly, none of the EULAs puts limits on the console session. While the Home Server EULA doesn't even mention it, the Standard/Enterprise EULA explicitly states You do not need a TS CAL when attaching to or mirroring the single Console Session (3g). As both products are related in their general functionality and Terminal Services in Windows Server 2003 Standard/Enterprise explicitly exclude the console session, I believe that this is also true for Home Server. This would make it possible for us to install a Home Server onto a virtual machine, disabling all RDP features and mirroring its console session over VNC. Using this VNC connection could happen from a Linux VM on the same server, which itself would be accessed over RDP (using Xrdp). Of course, this makes simultaneous connections to the Home Server impossible, but I doubt that this will cause many conflicts. As a new Windows Home Server license is available for just about 90 EUR, we could also just get another one in case of conflicts. Simultaneous accesses to the same server instance might be a bad idea anyway if some testing work requires an isolated environment and could cause blue screens, restarts, etc. While this of course is a hack around the EULA, I believe that we're good to go with this method as we don't do anything wrong legally. Please tell me what you think about this method and if we should spend the 90 EUR for a Home Server license (or even buy more). - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Hi, our main target is w2k3, so this is quite logical to use it. I know user-mode may target any Windows release, but in such case, I guess that more devs have some Windows 7 running than a w2k3. So, testing user-mode stuff is quite easy. Kernel-mode tests are really harder. Then, as I already expressed, I really push that idea. Regards, P. Schweitzer Any reason we're going with 2k3 and not a newer one? ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Adam wrote: Using an OEM license on a computer that the software has not originally been distributed with is not legal (confirmed with a call to MS [...] Of course, this is what every software vendor wants. But gladly, this decision is not just up to Microsoft, but the local jurisdictions. And at least in Germany, Microsoft has lost a case related to OEM software in court (see http://tinyurl.com/dfl6u). Later court cases also allowed unbundling single licenses of volume license contracts. See http://www.usedsoft.com/rechtslage/urteile.html for a list of German cases related to this. The appropriate German law behind this decision seems to be a ratified EU law, so it should be legal to unbundle licenses in all EU states. Perhaps you can try Windows Server 200X Web Edition as that is the cheapest. Now that we only need the Remote Desktop for Administration and no extra Terminal Services, this might indeed be a cheap alternative. But as the Web Edition was only available in volume license contracts, it is quite rare on eBay and other platforms. Additionally, I'm not sure about two things: Does its Remote Desktop for Administration also allow two concurrent RDP sessions like the other server editions? And are there any localized versions of it or just an English one with MUI packs? Latter one would be the best for us :-) And why the hell would you want a 32-BIT edition of Windows Server 2003? Because this is still the main target. And as stated, we won't use the server for real serving purposes, but just for development and testing. - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:19:52 +1100, Colin Finck co...@reactos.org wrote: Adam wrote: Using an OEM license on a computer that the software has not originally been distributed with is not legal (confirmed with a call to MS [...] Of course, this is what every software vendor wants. But gladly, this decision is not just up to Microsoft, but the local jurisdictions. And at least in Germany, Microsoft has lost a case related to OEM software in court (see http://tinyurl.com/dfl6u). Later court cases also allowed unbundling single licenses of volume license contracts. See http://www.usedsoft.com/rechtslage/urteile.html for a list of German cases related to this. The appropriate German law behind this decision seems to be a ratified EU law, so it should be legal to unbundle licenses in all EU states. Nice. :) Perhaps you can try Windows Server 200X Web Edition as that is the cheapest. Now that we only need the Remote Desktop for Administration and no extra Terminal Services, this might indeed be a cheap alternative. But as the Web Edition was only available in volume license contracts, it is quite rare on eBay and other platforms. ah that explains why I am unable to find it anywhere for purchase. Of course you should be able to purchase Windows Server 2008 R2 standard with downgrade rights to Windows Server 2003 but I am under the impression Windows Server 2008 R2 only comes as x64 (or at least, it was going to) so you'd probably get 2003 x64 version. Additionally, I'm not sure about two things: Does its Remote Desktop for Administration also allow two concurrent RDP sessions like the other server editions? And are there any localized versions of it or just an English one with MUI packs? Latter one would be the best for us :-) Not 100% sure about Windows Server 2003, but Windows Server 2008 (at least, when I was playing with the 32-bit one as Windows Server Longhorn back in 2007) allows up to 2 sessions. That includes the console session. I recall that it also allows two RDP sessions, but then nobody can log into the console without forcing a termination of one of the sessions, and vice versa. And why the hell would you want a 32-BIT edition of Windows Server 2003? Because this is still the main target. And as stated, we won't use the server for real serving purposes, but just for development and testing. ah that explains it. - Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
[ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
I for one, only have a winXP pro license on which I do my tests. Le 14/01/2011 16:46, Colin Finck a écrit : Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Any reason we're going with 2k3 and not a newer one? 2011/1/14 Jérôme Gardou jerome.gar...@laposte.net I for one, only have a winXP pro license on which I do my tests. Le 14/01/2011 16:46, Colin Finck a écrit : Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
This isn't legal. You can't take a single user licence and opening it up to the public. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 14 January 2011 15:46 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Each seat comes with a number of builtin licenses. There is a slightly different set of rules with respect to terminal services, but adhering to those and achieving what Colin wants to provide is not impossible or even difficult. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Ged Murphy gedmur...@gmail.com wrote: This isn't legal. You can't take a single user licence and opening it up to the public. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 14 January 2011 15:46 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
My understanding is that each server allows n number of clients to connect to it or n number of TS sessions, depending on the licence you hold. It doesn't allow more than one person to use the actual host machine for development purposes. Ged. From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Zachary Gorden Sent: 14 January 2011 17:26 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Each seat comes with a number of builtin licenses. There is a slightly different set of rules with respect to terminal services, but adhering to those and achieving what Colin wants to provide is not impossible or even difficult. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Ged Murphy gedmur...@gmail.com wrote: This isn't legal. You can't take a single user licence and opening it up to the public. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 14 January 2011 15:46 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Reading over the license terms for 2008 and R2 at least, we would need a separate license for each developer that we want to allow access to remote desktop to the server. There is not any limitations listed with respect to how many concurrent connections are permissible, though I think that limitation, if it exists, is dependent on which version of Server one gets. There also does not appear to be any rules about not allowing other usages if we use a server for TS functionality. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Ged Murphy gedmur...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is that each server allows n number of clients to connect to it or n number of TS sessions, depending on the licence you hold. It doesn’t allow more than one person to use the actual host machine for development purposes. Ged. *From:* ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] *On Behalf Of *Zachary Gorden *Sent:* 14 January 2011 17:26 *To:* ReactOS Development List *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Each seat comes with a number of builtin licenses. There is a slightly different set of rules with respect to terminal services, but adhering to those and achieving what Colin wants to provide is not impossible or even difficult. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Ged Murphy gedmur...@gmail.com wrote: This isn't legal. You can't take a single user licence and opening it up to the public. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 14 January 2011 15:46 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Ged Murphy wrote: It doesn’t allow more than one person to use the actual host machine for development purposes. The restrictions are indeed harder than I thought, but two concurrent administrative connections using any accounts are possible (see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/814590/en-us). This doesn't even require any CALs. I've just verified this in a Windows Server 2008 evaluation VM I had lying around. Additional concurrent connections require a single User CAL _plus_ a single Terminal Server User CAL for each connection. These need to be registered in two license managers and will be bound to users upon connecting. Don't know how easy it is to unbind them again, but it's certainly complicated considering that Terminal Server CALs require personal registration at Microsoft. Not very user-friendly for our usage scenario in an Open-Source project ;-) Finally, these additional connections would be non-administrative, so likely unusable if we want to test drivers. Would certainly be easier to just buy another Windows Server license if the two included concurrent connections don't suffice. Cheers, Colin ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
Using an OEM license on a computer that the software has not originally been distributed with is not legal (confirmed with a call to MS when I was trying to sort out licensing/activation queries of my own) Perhaps you can try Windows Server 200X Web Edition as that is the cheapest. However, still can only be installed on one server per license. And why the hell would you want a 32-BIT edition of Windows Server 2003? Why not Windows Server 2008 x64 or Itanium versions? On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 03:27:48 +1100, Ged Murphy gedmur...@gmail.com wrote: This isn't legal. You can't take a single user licence and opening it up to the public. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 14 January 2011 15:46 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Re: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project?
I wasn't suggesting get an Itanium version - I was curious as to why you would want the 32-bit version rather than one which can run on a 64-bit platform. Of course Itanium is extra expensive. And pretty much rare these days. On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:08:44 +1100, Zachary Gorden drakekaizer...@gmail.com wrote: Though I originally asked a similar question, I realized the answer afterward, mainly that the kernel target remains NT5.2, which is Server 2k3. And while I would not object to 2008/R2, why would we get an Itanium version? An Itanium machine would probably cost us as much if not more than the licenses and there is little value having one unless we were planning an Itanium port. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Adam geekdun...@gmail.com wrote: Using an OEM license on a computer that the software has not originally been distributed with is not legal (confirmed with a call to MS when I was trying to sort out licensing/activation queries of my own) Perhaps you can try Windows Server 200X Web Edition as that is the cheapest. However, still can only be installed on one server per license. And why the hell would you want a 32-BIT edition of Windows Server 2003? Why not Windows Server 2008 x64 or Itanium versions? On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 03:27:48 +1100, Ged Murphy gedmur...@gmail.com wrote: This isn't legal. You can't take a single user licence and opening it up to the public. Ged. -Original Message- From: ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Colin Finck Sent: 14 January 2011 15:46 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] Getting a Windows Server 2003 license for the project? Hi everybody, I've been thinking about getting a license of an English Windows Server 2003 Standard 32-Bit for the project. It could be installed on one of our servers and be made available over RDP. This would enable project members to do development and testing work on our actual target platform. Considering that some developers even use a non-Windows platform for development work, it might simplify their work as well. We may as well use the license for other purposes (Buildslave, Testslave, whatever), but at least native building could be done by any Windows version. And in this case, I might be able to donate an XP Pro license myself (German though). As I don't know about the needs of the other members, I'd like to hear your opinion about my idea. It would also be nice to hear if anybody knows a cheap (but legal!) way to get such a license or can even donate one (e.g. unused OEM license shipped with a server, unused license after getting Server 2008, etc.) English Windows licenses are rare/expensive on German eBay, so this would only be a last resort :-) Cheers, Colin P.S.: If you have the opposite problem and actually need a Linux VM available over SSH/RDP (e.g. for testing build system changes), just let me know and I could set it up. ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
