[Rosegarden-user] Replacing instruments

2016-06-26 Thread Silas Mortimer 
Hi, it's me again.

Okay, so I've been reading about how sfz files tend to be better than
sf2. I've also found a better orchestral soundfont, which is good,
because I don't know what synth program that will work with Rosegarden
will load sfz files or how to do it.

So, my point is this: I started a piece using one particular
soundfont, but I'd like to change the instruments to ones in the new
soundfont. I'm having trouble finding a howto on the site (though I
wouldn't be surprised if it's there and I'm just missing it), so how
can I do it? Like, I want to change the violin from one soundfont to
the violin in the other soundfont, if that makes sense.

Thanks.

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[Rosegarden-user] More than 100 measures?

2016-05-12 Thread Silas Mortimer 
Hiya, it's me again. I have a temporary, version one sorta complete
piece made from the first one I started making on Rosegarden. It's
short and if someone would like to check it out, look here:

https://ralopyb.bandcamp.com/track/rapid-cycle

The thing is that it's kind of artificially shortened, i.e., I
intended on making it longer but ran up to a point where I can't
figure out how to make more than 100 measures to work with. What's
going on? How can I extend it?

Also, the notation prints out beautifully. Just wanted to say that.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

2016-04-18 Thread Silas Mortimer 
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Ted Felix <t...@tedfelix.com> wrote:
> On 04/18/2016 09:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>That's a ratio of 2/3.  Check the time signatures.  Are they the same?

I just looked up time signatures in Hydrogen and I'm going to have to
look at it for a while to understand it, I think. Thanks for the tip.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Humanizing MIDI tracks

2016-04-18 Thread Silas Mortimer 
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:59 AM, Lorenzo Sutton
 wrote:
> Not sure if this has been mentioned / is relevant, but in both matrix
> and notation editors you can 'jog' (move in time) by 1/32 increments
> selected notes with ALT + Right / ALT+Left - For certain scenarios this
> (using the keyboard) could speed up adjusting note onsets e.g. creating
> quick 'arpeggio' effects
> But of course YMMV :-)

I will definitely have to try that! Man, there's so much stuff to learn, lol.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Humanizing MIDI tracks

2016-04-13 Thread Silas Mortimer 
On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 8:32 PM, D. Michael McIntyre
<rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/13/2016 06:52 PM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>
>> No problem. I just need to work out how to add the arpeggio notation
>> in Lilypond.
>
> It's hacky and weird.  Use the text tool.  Choose type "LilyPond Directive"
> and insert an "Arp."

Thanks for the tip. I haven't figured out yet how to open a GUI for
it, which it seems like you're describing. I'll look that up.

> That prints the squiggly arpeggio symbol on the score.  I never gave
> Rosegarden the ability to represent this natively, and no one else ever
> bothered either, so this is what we've got.  Hacky and weird.

Better than nothing. In that piece I sent you, you probably know the
arpeggiation I'm talking about. It worked out pretty well using
sixteenth notes or whatever it was, don't you think? I could have used
something smaller for a faster arpeggio, as well.

> Somebody did a feature request for that fairly recently.  I have no plans to
> implement it myself.  Our key signature support model is based on the MIDI
> standard, tonic pitch, number of accidentals, major or minor.

All these years and I wish I had gotten into MIDI sooner. It used to
be super expensive, though. I remember that was part of what kept me
away.

> I did a little research, and Finale didn't support non-standard key
> signatures until 2009.  It had been under development for 21 years at that
> point.

Wow.

> Everything I've ever seen in D harmonic minor is just written with a D minor
> key signature and the sharps spelled out manually.

Yeah, I suppose that's better.

> Same thing with a keyboard though.  In my own work, if I'm focusing on the
> score, the performance is secondary.  If I'm focusing on the performance,
> the score is secondary.

I'm having trouble making myself just deal with one or the other, lol.
I suppose it just takes time and discipline.

> Sometimes I have two sets of parts in the same
> file, because even as good as Rosegarden is at letting you have a good
> performance and tidy notation, it isn't THAT good.

It's a LOT better than I expected I'd find, to be honest. It's
certainly not the pain in the butt it was when I first tried making
notation on a computer (which was a long time ago, of course, and I
did give up). If it sounds like I'm complaining a lot, trust me, I'm
really happy with what I've been doing. Maybe after I've used it
enough to take it for granted, I'll get annoyed by something, lol.

> Complication
> up the bazzoo, and math math math.  I don't know how to calculate no
> logarithmic dingleflummy Miss Scarlet, I is just a truck driver with a
> liberal arts degree.

I laughed out loud at that.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-12 Thread Silas Mortimer 
Very good to know. Thank you!

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 8:50 AM, D. Michael McIntyre
 wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 04:13 PM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
>
>>> I *might* download and compile it
>
> As of revision 14597, working with your Unnamed.rg file:
>
> When you find the whole notes that are too big for their measures, you
> can select them and Adjust -> Notes... -> Tie Notes at Barlines
>
> When you find those three notes that are supposed to be in a separate
> voice, you can select them and Segment -> New Layer From Selection
>
> This creates a new segment with the same properties as the current
> working segment, cuts the notes out of the original, pastes them into
> the new segment at the same place.  They don't seem to move at all,
> etc., and just change places.  All I ended up doing was just stringing
> together a bunch of off-the-shelf stuff in a new and time-saving way.  I
> folded together bits of code lifted from several places, and got it
> knocked together in a couple of hours.
>
> There some issues with the new function I just added.
>
> * If you undo this operation, the notes move back where they came from,
> but the new segment remains.  I don't know how to solve that, so I left
> the loose end for someone else to attack one of these days.
>
> * The rests come out just looking like hell.  Rosegarden doesn't really
> handle this overall situation very well at all.  It's a hacky kludge
> more than a real feature, and it always has been.  I've been dealing
> with it for years, because fixing it properly would be a very large
> undertaking.  One day I want to improve the way Rosegarden deals with
> rests and such in alternative voice segments, but that is a big project,
> and I have bite sized chunks of time.
>
> * I haven't made up an icon for the thing yet.
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>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-11 Thread Silas Mortimer 
On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 5:46 AM, chuck elliot
 wrote:
> Actually there are devices that do this. I have a Roland GI 10
> guitar/midi interface which is basically a real time pitch to midi
> converter. It handles pitch bend too and does an impressive job
> without too much delay and glitches. Paired with a midi sound module,
> you can (in theory) play any instrument using the guitar as the input
> device. Whether this is effective or not depends on the nature of the
> target instrument; wind instruments work pretty well but piano say
> is harder to mimic in terms of playing style.

That is excellent! I shall have to save up for that.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-09 Thread Silas Mortimer 
Going to try inline. Last time I tried it (a while back), Gmail didn't
handle it all that well.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:08 PM, D. Michael McIntyre
<rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/09/2016 03:13 PM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>
>
>  >> Perhaps another limitation regarding scoring sequencer music are the
>  >> limitations of MIDI? Are there MIDI standard events for everything a
>  >> music score can convey?
>
>> I don't think there are MIDI standard events for everything, because I
>> know you can't use a guitar or guitar-like instrument to input MIDI.
>
> After thinking it over for awhile, I concluded that MIDI can be bent to
> cover virtually everything you can notate on a score, and I also
> concluded that scores are limited in what they can convey.  How do you
> notate for a didgeridoo or an Acme siren whistle?  How do you reproduce
> either of these expressive monophonic instruments meaningfully with MIDI?

Can it cover bends and vibrato on an electric guitar? That's what I
remember it not doing well. I know a keyboard can use a pitch shifter,
but I don't know if the score to show that is the same. An example of
what I'm talking about:

http://www.writing-music.com/images/product-032.jpg

Unless things have changed or I simply missed how to do it, these can
be put in a score for electric guitar, but MIDI can't do it. Am I
wrong?

> This puts me in the mood to compose a piece for siren whistle and
> didgeridoo.

I would LOVE to see/hear that, lol.

> (I have your .rg file and will have an opportunity to go through it with
> you tomorrow.  I'll show you how to paint yourself out of those corners
> you found yourself in.  I had hoped to get there sooner, but they are
> really putting the screws to me my last few days of work at this job.
> They are bitter and angry that I am exiting stage left and moving on.
> Two more loads, and then I am done with the fuel business.)

Thank you very much. I'm in no hurry. Good luck dealing with the job.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-09 Thread Silas Mortimer 
I don't think there are MIDI standard events for everything, because I
know you can't use a guitar or guitar-like instrument to input MIDI.
Well, I saw a machine a long time ago, but you couldn't play the
guitar like a guitar, if that makes sense. For instance, no bends.

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 11:49 PM, david <gn...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> That is a great analogy.
>
> I would also say that music notation is fundamentally visual, not audio
> or sequential. Musicians reading a score aren't necessarily going "note
> by note" anymore than the typical person reading text reads "letter by
> letter". I guess sequencers aren't quite up to the human visual system's
> powerful processing!
>
> Perhaps another limitation regarding scoring sequencer music are the
> limitations of MIDI? Are there MIDI standard events for everything a
> music score can convey?
>
> On 04/08/2016 06:30 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>> That makes a lot of sense.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsut...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> As I already said this is really a bit of a conundrum
>>> I think a good analogy would be imagine writing in a word processor
>>> (e.g. Writer) or typesetting system (e.g. Latex) VS. trying to feed what
>>> you wrote to a Text To Speech (TTS) engine/system able of rendering the
>>> text you write as if it were a professional actress.
>>>
>>> Feed plain text to a text to speech and it will sound like... well text
>>> to speech, if you want to add articulations etc. you have to 'break' the
>>> plain text with some sort of semantics (markup), or invest a lot in some
>>> sort of interpretation engine which can also do linguistic analysis.
>>>
>>> That kind of thing gets magnitudes more complicated with music..
>>>
>>> But after all, notation is really made for humans, while the matrix
>>> editor (or even the event list editor) is much more similar (if still
>>> high-level) to what you would feed to a machine (by the way the matrix
>>> editor is called "piano roll" in some applications for a reason, so
>>> 'machine' is not necessarily a computer).
>>>
>>> Well well always very interesting discussions on the RG mailing list :)
>>>
>>> On 08/04/2016 15:19, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
>>>> On 04/07/2016 07:04 PM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I might ask, because I've been wondering about this, what makes
>>>>> doing notation so difficult?
>>>>
>>>> I think the root of it is because notation is a very analog,
>>>> infinitely-variable kind of thing that is difficult to represent and
>>>> manipulate in an orderly digital world.
>>>>
>>>> I have probably over 1,000 pages of commercially published sheet music
>>>> for various instruments sitting around in my house, and it probably
>>>> wouldn't take me 30 seconds to find a score that Rosegarden can't be
>>>> used to reproduce.  It would probably take me more on the order of 30
>>>> minutes to find a score that Rosegarden CAN reproduce exactly like the
>>>> original, with no compromises.  I would probably have to pull that out
>>>> of some basic band method book too.
>>>>
>>>> Notation is difficult, because of the amount of effort that would be
>>>> required to address any random one of a hundred different scenarios I
>>>> could come up with that Rosegarden doesn't know how to handle.
>>>>
>>>> Kneed beams.  How the hell would we ever make kneed beams work without
>>>> seriously rethinking everything from the ground up?  I have utterly no 
>>>> idea.
>>>>
>>>> Anacrusis is something I've banged on off and on for years, and we still
>>>> can't really handle it probably, or get it exported to LilyPond
>>>> properly.  Close, but not really a cigar.  I have a trumpet method book
>>>> with 1,000 pages of stuff Rosegarden can't handle.  It's basic, common
>>>> stuff that's hard to work out how to achieve in a notation editor
>>>> grafted onto a MIDI sequencer.
>>>>
>>>> After 15 years of this, I could go on for days, Silas.  Doing notation
>>>> on top of a sequencer is borderline insanity, but it's a crazy kind of
>>>> fun to challenge the limits of what is possible, even if it isn't smart
>>>> or practical.
>>>>
>>>> The true notation editors like MusE Score and Fina

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-08 Thread Silas Mortimer 
That makes a lot of sense.

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As I already said this is really a bit of a conundrum
> I think a good analogy would be imagine writing in a word processor
> (e.g. Writer) or typesetting system (e.g. Latex) VS. trying to feed what
> you wrote to a Text To Speech (TTS) engine/system able of rendering the
> text you write as if it were a professional actress.
>
> Feed plain text to a text to speech and it will sound like... well text
> to speech, if you want to add articulations etc. you have to 'break' the
> plain text with some sort of semantics (markup), or invest a lot in some
> sort of interpretation engine which can also do linguistic analysis.
>
> That kind of thing gets magnitudes more complicated with music..
>
> But after all, notation is really made for humans, while the matrix
> editor (or even the event list editor) is much more similar (if still
> high-level) to what you would feed to a machine (by the way the matrix
> editor is called "piano roll" in some applications for a reason, so
> 'machine' is not necessarily a computer).
>
> Well well always very interesting discussions on the RG mailing list :)
>
> On 08/04/2016 15:19, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
>> On 04/07/2016 07:04 PM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>>
>>> If I might ask, because I've been wondering about this, what makes
>>> doing notation so difficult?
>>
>> I think the root of it is because notation is a very analog,
>> infinitely-variable kind of thing that is difficult to represent and
>> manipulate in an orderly digital world.
>>
>> I have probably over 1,000 pages of commercially published sheet music
>> for various instruments sitting around in my house, and it probably
>> wouldn't take me 30 seconds to find a score that Rosegarden can't be
>> used to reproduce.  It would probably take me more on the order of 30
>> minutes to find a score that Rosegarden CAN reproduce exactly like the
>> original, with no compromises.  I would probably have to pull that out
>> of some basic band method book too.
>>
>> Notation is difficult, because of the amount of effort that would be
>> required to address any random one of a hundred different scenarios I
>> could come up with that Rosegarden doesn't know how to handle.
>>
>> Kneed beams.  How the hell would we ever make kneed beams work without
>> seriously rethinking everything from the ground up?  I have utterly no idea.
>>
>> Anacrusis is something I've banged on off and on for years, and we still
>> can't really handle it probably, or get it exported to LilyPond
>> properly.  Close, but not really a cigar.  I have a trumpet method book
>> with 1,000 pages of stuff Rosegarden can't handle.  It's basic, common
>> stuff that's hard to work out how to achieve in a notation editor
>> grafted onto a MIDI sequencer.
>>
>> After 15 years of this, I could go on for days, Silas.  Doing notation
>> on top of a sequencer is borderline insanity, but it's a crazy kind of
>> fun to challenge the limits of what is possible, even if it isn't smart
>> or practical.
>>
>> The true notation editors like MusE Score and Finale (they work directly
>> with notes and lines and staffs instead of MIDI) have an easier time
>> with a great many of these problems, but they face their own nightmares.
>>Those things are especially weak when it comes to rendering imperfect
>> human performances on a page.  I've seen absolutely nothing on any
>> platform in close to 30 years of computer music that could produce a
>> playable sheet of music without a considerable amount of fiddling around
>> to tweak all the glitches.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure if that magic button could be written, it would be on
>> the market by now, and would probably cost $10,000 a copy.
>>
>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-08 Thread Silas Mortimer 
I can definitely believe it, I just didn't see it before you explained
it. It makes sense.

Not that I think we should abandon the old way by any means, but maybe
there ought to be a notation 2.0, completely reworked to be an easy
learning curve for those who already know the old notation, but make
more sense to coding. I wonder if that's even possible.

You know, I say that I'm completely new to composing on a computer,
but that's not *quite* true. In the days of DOS, I remember creating a
BASIC file that would play some notes using computer beeps, lol. I
remember doing Slayer's "War Ensemble" that way and it was hilarious.
Just a random thought.

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:19 AM, D. Michael McIntyre
<rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/07/2016 07:04 PM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>
>> If I might ask, because I've been wondering about this, what makes
>> doing notation so difficult?
>
> I think the root of it is because notation is a very analog,
> infinitely-variable kind of thing that is difficult to represent and
> manipulate in an orderly digital world.
>
> I have probably over 1,000 pages of commercially published sheet music
> for various instruments sitting around in my house, and it probably
> wouldn't take me 30 seconds to find a score that Rosegarden can't be
> used to reproduce.  It would probably take me more on the order of 30
> minutes to find a score that Rosegarden CAN reproduce exactly like the
> original, with no compromises.  I would probably have to pull that out
> of some basic band method book too.
>
> Notation is difficult, because of the amount of effort that would be
> required to address any random one of a hundred different scenarios I
> could come up with that Rosegarden doesn't know how to handle.
>
> Kneed beams.  How the hell would we ever make kneed beams work without
> seriously rethinking everything from the ground up?  I have utterly no idea.
>
> Anacrusis is something I've banged on off and on for years, and we still
> can't really handle it probably, or get it exported to LilyPond
> properly.  Close, but not really a cigar.  I have a trumpet method book
> with 1,000 pages of stuff Rosegarden can't handle.  It's basic, common
> stuff that's hard to work out how to achieve in a notation editor
> grafted onto a MIDI sequencer.
>
> After 15 years of this, I could go on for days, Silas.  Doing notation
> on top of a sequencer is borderline insanity, but it's a crazy kind of
> fun to challenge the limits of what is possible, even if it isn't smart
> or practical.
>
> The true notation editors like MusE Score and Finale (they work directly
> with notes and lines and staffs instead of MIDI) have an easier time
> with a great many of these problems, but they face their own nightmares.
>   Those things are especially weak when it comes to rendering imperfect
> human performances on a page.  I've seen absolutely nothing on any
> platform in close to 30 years of computer music that could produce a
> playable sheet of music without a considerable amount of fiddling around
> to tweak all the glitches.
>
> I'm pretty sure if that magic button could be written, it would be on
> the market by now, and would probably cost $10,000 a copy.
>
> --
> D. Michael McIntyre
>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-07 Thread Silas Mortimer 
I was thinking so much about the attachment that I forgot to say thank
you. And that "Tie Notes at Bar Lines" was what I was looking for, but
I'm glad to know that it might not work, lol.

If I might ask, because I've been wondering about this, what makes
doing notation so difficult? I know, of course, that there are many
rules to notation regardless of how you do it, but it's so
mathematical that I just kind of assumed that this would be one of the
most trivial parts. Boy, was I wrong, lol. So yeah, what makes it so
hard?

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:18 PM, D. Michael McIntyre
<rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/07/2016 07:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>
>> Anyway, here's one example:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8p6zThp4KIdN2NyUXBRWHkxUHc/view?usp=sharing
>
>
> Red bar lines are Rosegarden's way of telling you that something is wrong.
> The measure does not count correctly, and this typically happens because it
> is too full.
>
> The automagic tool that's supposed to fix this kind of thing is Adjust ->
> Notes... -> Tie Notes at Bar Lines.
>
> I constructed a test example, and of course it isn't working at all! I'm not
> sure if that's a bug or my rusty understanding.
>
> So the next easiest way to go at this is to select the whole note and use
> Ctrl+2 to convert it into a half note.  Add another half note, select the
> pair, and tie them manually.  (You can also use Ctrl+Alt+2 to convert the
> whole note into a single half note with a performance duration of a whole
> note.  The note will sound for two full measures of 2/4 but it will only be
> written as one half note.  It may not be a good idea to have such an extreme
> difference between notation duration and performance duration, but it's an
> option.)
>
> If in doubt, erasing a bit of stuff and drawing that bit over again will get
> you around a lot of glitches.  Some glitches are your fault, some glitches
> are our fault.  Every time I get frustrated and think Rosegarden is a
> hopeless piece of crap, I go play with Sibelius or Finale.  Commercial
> software with years on us and presumably millions of dollars invested in
> development is only marginally better, and Rosegarden was built by rank
> amateurs.
>
>> Here's one more:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8p6zThp4KIdSmZOdUx3eWR4YVU/view?usp=sharing
>
>
> When notes are circled like that, you can interpret that to mean "there is
> something awfully weird here.  To do anything to resolve this one, I need
> the file you're working on.  (Send it directly to me if you're shy.)  Then I
> can look at what's what and sort it out.  I'll walk you through how I did
> what.
>
> --
> D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-07 Thread Silas Mortimer 
I don't mind sending it here.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:18 PM, D. Michael McIntyre
<rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/07/2016 07:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>
>> Anyway, here's one example:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8p6zThp4KIdN2NyUXBRWHkxUHc/view?usp=sharing
>
>
> Red bar lines are Rosegarden's way of telling you that something is wrong.
> The measure does not count correctly, and this typically happens because it
> is too full.
>
> The automagic tool that's supposed to fix this kind of thing is Adjust ->
> Notes... -> Tie Notes at Bar Lines.
>
> I constructed a test example, and of course it isn't working at all! I'm not
> sure if that's a bug or my rusty understanding.
>
> So the next easiest way to go at this is to select the whole note and use
> Ctrl+2 to convert it into a half note.  Add another half note, select the
> pair, and tie them manually.  (You can also use Ctrl+Alt+2 to convert the
> whole note into a single half note with a performance duration of a whole
> note.  The note will sound for two full measures of 2/4 but it will only be
> written as one half note.  It may not be a good idea to have such an extreme
> difference between notation duration and performance duration, but it's an
> option.)
>
> If in doubt, erasing a bit of stuff and drawing that bit over again will get
> you around a lot of glitches.  Some glitches are your fault, some glitches
> are our fault.  Every time I get frustrated and think Rosegarden is a
> hopeless piece of crap, I go play with Sibelius or Finale.  Commercial
> software with years on us and presumably millions of dollars invested in
> development is only marginally better, and Rosegarden was built by rank
> amateurs.
>
>> Here's one more:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8p6zThp4KIdSmZOdUx3eWR4YVU/view?usp=sharing
>
>
> When notes are circled like that, you can interpret that to mean "there is
> something awfully weird here.  To do anything to resolve this one, I need
> the file you're working on.  (Send it directly to me if you're shy.)  Then I
> can look at what's what and sort it out.  I'll walk you through how I did
> what.
>
> --
> D. Michael McIntyre


Unnamed.rg
Description: application/rosegarden-composition
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-07 Thread Silas Mortimer 
I should start doing that.

Anyway, as I said before, I had to make the time signature 2/4, which
would make a whole note of four beats span two measures. I know it's
weird, but I started composing the piece on guitar and wound up having
trouble finding the right signature before finding that 2/4 worked
really well. Though now that I have a good portion of it down, I
should be able to come up with a better signature.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:31 PM, David Jones <gn...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> Hmmm, I use only the notation editor. My understanding of notation is that a 
> whole note is a whole measure. So if I have a note to be held longer than a 
> measure (say 3), I put a whole note in each measure and tie them together. 
> Not make a dotted whole note to get a note that runs longer than a measure.
>
> Just my free contribution.
>
> David W. Jones
> gn...@hawaii.rr.com
> authenticity, honesty, community
> http://dancingtreefrog.comOn Apr 7, 2016 02:37, Lorenzo Sutton 
> <lorenzofsut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> On 07/04/2016 00:27, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > One example is at one point I wanted to make a chord ring out
>> > longer than I'd originally put it and had already added notes after
>> > it. I searched for what I should do there, and from what I gather, I
>> > could only do that in the matrix editor. Is that the case? Anyway, I
>> > did it there, and the notation not only looks bad, it no longer makes
>> > sense. I think there might be a whole note listed in one bar (again,
>> > it's in 2/4), and there's something that should be tied, plays like
>> > it's tied, but it's not shown that way.
>>
>> I think that's expected and software can't really help you there.
>>
>> I guess this is the basic concept and conundrum of sequencer which (like
>> rosegarden) also support notation: if the notation is 'perfect' from a
>> visual/typesetting point of view it will sound mechanical from a
>> performance point of view. The matrix editor (aka Piano Roll in some
>> software) enables you to tweak notes so that e.g. they result more
>> realistic but that will inevitably screw notation.
>>
>> Really, it's a conundrum in music itself. No one performs exactly what
>> is written on a score (some contemporary music can be an exception), so
>> imagine writing down on a score *exactly* what a performer is playing...
>>
>> Rosegarden actually does have some 'intelligence' when it comes to
>> interpreting notation (e.g. dynamics), but it cannot 'imagine' what you
>> would like especially in terms of note onsets and lengths.
>>
>> My recommendation would be to:
>> a.) use notation for:
>> 1. Inputting notes when you are familiar or more comfortable with
>> traditional notation.
>> 2. Want to concentrate on the notation aspects of your piece, e.g.
>> because you want to eventually publish it.
>>
>> b.) Use the matrix editor when:
>> 1. You want to concentrate on how your piece actually sounds.
>> 2. You become familiar enough with the matrix paradigm to be able to
>> input notes directly there.
>> 3. Adjust at the fine level not onsets, durations, velocities etc.
>>
>> To conclude, take into account that some sequencers simply do not
>> provide notation, so think of Rosegarden as a sequencer with a (very
>> advanced compared to many sequencers) support for notation  ;)
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>> Lorenzo.
>>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-07 Thread Silas Mortimer 
I appreciate it. And it sounds like the game is good, lol.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:55 AM, D. Michael McIntyre
<rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/07/2016 10:44 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>
>> do that and then use shortcuts in LilyPond to "clean it up" visually?
>> To be specific, what I'm asking is if LilyPond has ways of easily
>> fixing problems like my first example.
>
> The LilyPond export engine is very much GIGO.  Garbage in, garbage out.
>   If the notation is a mess in Rosegarden, it will be even worse in
> LilyPond.
>
> I started playing a game and stayed up way past my bedtime,
> so I don't have time to look at your examples just now.  I recognize the
> kind of growing pains you are experiencing, and when I get time to
> reply, I should be able to help you.  Just hang in there, and I'll get
> back to you within 24 hours.
> --
> D. Michael McIntyre
>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-07 Thread Silas Mortimer 
I did it again. Last time, Lorenzo, I promise.

So what I said:

Well, here's the problem: When I initially put the chord in, I made
the notes dotted whole notes, which made them span three measures.
And, now that I'm suddenly remembering what happened there, I
determined that a note BEFORE this chord needed to be longer, which
meant that I had to somehow move three measures worth of chord over to
start at the next measure. I realize that you can do this in the
matrix editor (in fact, that's the instance that drove me to look at
the matrix editor in the first place), but I was hoping to keep the
notation up with the piece as I went along, so I tried to do what I
could with the notation and wound up with what you see in the picture.

But THEN, something happened... I think maybe I had the erase tool
activated and forgot about that or something... I don't remember, but
whatever it was, either undoing didn't fix it or I didn't want to
undo. This removed the tie from that first half note to the quarter
note in the next measure. No problem, I figured, I can just select
them and tie them. Unfortunately, ever since then, it SHOWS the tie,
but it plays like it's not tied. Since I had worked out an earlier
problem (with this same chord) with the matrix editor, I tried that. I
get the same problem, though.

Might it be worth deleting the whole chord altogether and putting it
back in? At least in the matrix editor?

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 07/04/2016 16:39, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>> Oh, geez. It's been a long time since I've used a mailing list and I
>> sent my reply to Lorenzo personally. Thanks for your patience,
>> Lorenzo.
>
> Happy to help new RG users, it's the least one can do.. ;)
>
>>
>> Okay, here's what I said in the reply:
>>
>> Oh, it definitely does help. It's not a showstopper by any means. I
>> asked all of this mainly because a) I'm new to composing this way and
>> b) I figured it was messing up because of something *I* was doing
>> wrong and that there might be a way to fix it that for some reason *I*
>> wasn't finding. The only implied failings here are mine, trust me. If
>> this is just how it is, I'm fine with that.
>>
>> Still, though, in that second example, even in the matrix editor, I
>> can't get the chord to ring out instead of sounding twice. What am I
>> doing wrong there?
>
> Do you mean notes spanning multiple measures? My experience is that the
> matrix editor doesn't always handle well tied notes... Try making tied
> notes into longer notes (just 'pull' them with the mouse to the right)?
>
> Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the issue.
>
> Lorenzo.
>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-07 Thread Silas Mortimer 
Yeah, I'm getting a better sense of the whole thing through this
thread. I like that it allows me to input notation as I find it a LOT
easier to think in that than the matrix editor, which, despite getting
the gist of it and being able to make modifications in it, I don't
fully understand yet.

Let me ask this, as I also don't have experience with things like
LilyPond: I think I saw that I can export to LilyPond, right? Could I
do that and then use shortcuts in LilyPond to "clean it up" visually?
To be specific, what I'm asking is if LilyPond has ways of easily
fixing problems like my first example.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:33 AM, David Tisdell <david.tisd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You could focus on how the piece sounds and when you have it the way you
> want, make a duplicate and clean it up from a notation point of view. For
> notation, I would just use a fermata where the matrix editor is messing with
> the notation.
> I love the fact that RG is a musical swiss army knife but that does, as
> Lorenzo pointed out, introduce trade offs. If you want the best out of the
> sequencer and the notation editor, I would make 2 files.
>
> Dave
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Silas Mortimer <silasmorti...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi. I'm not only new to Rosegarden, I'm new to computer composing
>> beyond using guitarix/Hydrogen/Ardour for recording. I've been working
>> on a piece and learning bit by bit as I go along. Of course, this
>> means that I'm making a lot of mistakes as I go.
>>
>> The trouble winds up in the notation editor. By the time I'm done
>> fixing whatever needs to be fixed in what I previously did, the
>> notation is left looking terrible, lol. Not *really* the software's
>> fault, but I would think that there might be a way to, oh, I don't
>> know, hit a button or menu item that would reformat the entire thing
>> to be a little more elegant and/or make sense?
>>
>> What I'm currently writing is in 2/4 time, in the D melodic minor
>> scale. One example is at one point I wanted to make a chord ring out
>> longer than I'd originally put it and had already added notes after
>> it. I searched for what I should do there, and from what I gather, I
>> could only do that in the matrix editor. Is that the case? Anyway, I
>> did it there, and the notation not only looks bad, it no longer makes
>> sense. I think there might be a whole note listed in one bar (again,
>> it's in 2/4), and there's something that should be tied, plays like
>> it's tied, but it's not shown that way.
>>
>> Is there some way I can keep the music as it is, but discard and
>> regenerate the notation? I apologize for my ignorance here.
>>
>> I do love being able to do what I'm doing, though. This is a great
>> application.
>>
>>
>> --
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>
>

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-07 Thread Silas Mortimer 
Oh, geez. It's been a long time since I've used a mailing list and I
sent my reply to Lorenzo personally. Thanks for your patience,
Lorenzo.

Okay, here's what I said in the reply:

Oh, it definitely does help. It's not a showstopper by any means. I
asked all of this mainly because a) I'm new to composing this way and
b) I figured it was messing up because of something *I* was doing
wrong and that there might be a way to fix it that for some reason *I*
wasn't finding. The only implied failings here are mine, trust me. If
this is just how it is, I'm fine with that.

Still, though, in that second example, even in the matrix editor, I
can't get the chord to ring out instead of sounding twice. What am I
doing wrong there?

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:37 AM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On 07/04/2016 00:27, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> One example is at one point I wanted to make a chord ring out
>> longer than I'd originally put it and had already added notes after
>> it. I searched for what I should do there, and from what I gather, I
>> could only do that in the matrix editor. Is that the case? Anyway, I
>> did it there, and the notation not only looks bad, it no longer makes
>> sense. I think there might be a whole note listed in one bar (again,
>> it's in 2/4), and there's something that should be tied, plays like
>> it's tied, but it's not shown that way.
>
> I think that's expected and software can't really help you there.
>
> I guess this is the basic concept and conundrum of sequencer which (like
> rosegarden) also support notation: if the notation is 'perfect' from a
> visual/typesetting point of view it will sound mechanical from a
> performance point of view. The matrix editor (aka Piano Roll in some
> software) enables you to tweak notes so that e.g. they result more
> realistic but that will inevitably screw notation.
>
> Really, it's a conundrum in music itself. No one performs exactly what
> is written on a score (some contemporary music can be an exception), so
> imagine writing down on a score *exactly* what a performer is playing...
>
> Rosegarden actually does have some 'intelligence' when it comes to
> interpreting notation (e.g. dynamics), but it cannot 'imagine' what you
> would like especially in terms of note onsets and lengths.
>
> My recommendation would be to:
> a.) use notation for:
> 1. Inputting notes when you are familiar or more comfortable with
> traditional notation.
> 2. Want to concentrate on the notation aspects of your piece, e.g.
> because you want to eventually publish it.
>
> b.) Use the matrix editor when:
> 1. You want to concentrate on how your piece actually sounds.
> 2. You become familiar enough with the matrix paradigm to be able to
> input notes directly there.
> 3. Adjust at the fine level not onsets, durations, velocities etc.
>
> To conclude, take into account that some sequencers simply do not
> provide notation, so think of Rosegarden as a sequencer with a (very
> advanced compared to many sequencers) support for notation  ;)
>
> Hope this helps.
> Lorenzo.
>
> --
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> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
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[Rosegarden-user] Ugly notation formatting

2016-04-06 Thread Silas Mortimer 
Hi. I'm not only new to Rosegarden, I'm new to computer composing
beyond using guitarix/Hydrogen/Ardour for recording. I've been working
on a piece and learning bit by bit as I go along. Of course, this
means that I'm making a lot of mistakes as I go.

The trouble winds up in the notation editor. By the time I'm done
fixing whatever needs to be fixed in what I previously did, the
notation is left looking terrible, lol. Not *really* the software's
fault, but I would think that there might be a way to, oh, I don't
know, hit a button or menu item that would reformat the entire thing
to be a little more elegant and/or make sense?

What I'm currently writing is in 2/4 time, in the D melodic minor
scale. One example is at one point I wanted to make a chord ring out
longer than I'd originally put it and had already added notes after
it. I searched for what I should do there, and from what I gather, I
could only do that in the matrix editor. Is that the case? Anyway, I
did it there, and the notation not only looks bad, it no longer makes
sense. I think there might be a whole note listed in one bar (again,
it's in 2/4), and there's something that should be tied, plays like
it's tied, but it's not shown that way.

Is there some way I can keep the music as it is, but discard and
regenerate the notation? I apologize for my ignorance here.

I do love being able to do what I'm doing, though. This is a great application.

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