Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
Thank you.
I'm working with "8Rock" soundfont, that follows GM/GS standard (same
results with Fluid soundfont).
After some searching, I believe that this behavior is related to a change
in fluidsynth, as described at [*
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/fluidsynth/changeset/340*].
>From that I believe when I had all this working, I was using a previous
fluidsynth version (1.1.1), (before that change).
When I set variation for a instrument, I see the following MIDI messages in
qsynth's log:
Program 20 - Variation 1
---
fluidsynth: cc100
fluidsynth: cc1320
fluidsynth: prog1019
Program 20 - Variation 1
---
fluidsynth: cc100
fluidsynth: cc1321
fluidsynth: prog1019
As by now fluidsynth starts (by default) with *synth.midi-bank-select*=*gs*,
according to pointed doc, fluidsynth ignores information from CC32 that
tries to setup bank number for instrument variation.
In other words, rosegarden and fluidsynth are not talking the same
language...
I've tried start fluidsynth at command line with '*xg*' and '*mma*' choices
for same setting and I've got better results... (Now I'll have as homework
to find out how to setup that parameter in QSynth GUI...)
An little efect (confusion about first number being zero at inner working
but being one in GUIs), program 20 ("church organ") in pannel becames 19 in
MIDI message, and in the end I got program 18 ("percussive organ").
By changing just program number (not variation) forward and back, I've got
finally wanted instrument and variation.
2013/1/4 D. Michael McIntyre
> On 01/04/2013 07:58 AM, Marcio Scheibler wrote:
>
> > I've upgraded to 12.12.25 and issue remains.
>
> Thanks for checking.
>
> > I couldn't find "Send Bank Select" checkbox on instrument parameter
> panel.
>
> There isn't one. Tom was being imprecise.
>
> Let's have a quick look then... I don't have time to try this with
> QSynth and some soundfont that has variations, so I'll use my Roland
> Sound Canvas for this test.
>
> After importing the device definition, which I know ahead of time is
> properly configured to handle variations under the Roland GS scheme (the
> Yamaha XG scheme is somewhat different, and more widely standard, but
> that's a test for another day), it's necessary to change tracks and go
> back to the original track to trigger an update in the Instrument
> Parameters box. This is a bug. We just never have solved it.
>
> Having done that, the checkboxes that appear are:
>
> [x] Program
> [x] Variation
>
> We'll start by doing an Init GS on the synth, to put it back in a known
> default state.
>
> We'll start by picking "126. Helicopter" for [x] Program, because this
> program's variations are extremely obvious and not subtle. Channel set
> to "fixed" because it came up that way by default.
>
> IPB State:
>
> [x] Program "126. Helicopter"
> [x] Variation "Helicopter"
> Channel [fixed]
>
> Now change the variation to "Car Crash."
>
> [x] Program "126. Helicopter"
> [x] Variation "Car Crash"
> Channel [fixed]
>
> Look at synth. It says "Car Crash."
>
> Play keyboard. Car crash sound emerges.
>
> Change to a different active track. Program changes. Change back to
> previous track. Program changes. Change variations here there and
> everywhere, jump around from track to track, in all cases the
> program/variation are being maintained as expected per the active track
> I'm sitting on.
>
> All tests conducted by dinking around on a keyboard with different
> tracks active, with a Roland Sound Canvas.
>
> There was an update problem I consistently had to work around to get
> anywhere with this, but it was not in of itself a show stopper level
> problem. The core program/variation functionality appears to work as
> expected for Roland GS with a hardware synth.
>
> I need to try the test over again with QSynth and a suitable soundfont.
> What soundfont were you using that has variations?
>
> What other steps should I try to reproduce the issue?
>
> OBSERVATIONS:
>
> When all of this came up out of the box, the Volume for every instrument
> was set to 0. I had to go change the volume to > 0 to hear anything.
> In all cases, moving the volume knob DID NOT UPDATE the synth volume
> immediately, and the synth became out of sync with the GUI. IPB shows
> volume 123 (number the synth won't have gotten to by accident, thus
> recognizable marker), synth does NOT show volume of 123 on ANY channel.
> No channel is affected until I move off to a different track and then
> back to the original track to trigger an update, after having previously
> changed the volume knob.
>
> There really is a missing update or something, Tom. More careful
> experimentation with better documentation required to pin down how all
> of that is failing to meet expectations. I'll have to start over with a
> factory autoload and make sure everything begins from a known clean
> state, an
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:02:06 -0500 "D. Michael McIntyre" wrote: > When all of this came up out of the box, the Volume for every instrument > was set to 0. I had to go change the volume to > 0 to hear anything. > In all cases, moving the volume knob DID NOT UPDATE the synth volume > immediately, and the synth became out of sync with the GUI. IPB shows > volume 123 (number the synth won't have gotten to by accident, thus > recognizable marker), synth does NOT show volume of 123 on ANY channel. > No channel is affected until I move off to a different track and then > back to the original track to trigger an update, after having previously > changed the volume knob. This sounds suspiciously like the problem I reported a little while ago. Where changing the volume control didn't seem to always change the sound level in Yoshimi, only I hadn't tracked it down, so just started putting in CC7s at the start of tracks, with the event editor. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
On 01/04/2013 07:58 AM, Marcio Scheibler wrote: > I've upgraded to 12.12.25 and issue remains. Thanks for checking. > I couldn't find "Send Bank Select" checkbox on instrument parameter panel. There isn't one. Tom was being imprecise. Let's have a quick look then... I don't have time to try this with QSynth and some soundfont that has variations, so I'll use my Roland Sound Canvas for this test. After importing the device definition, which I know ahead of time is properly configured to handle variations under the Roland GS scheme (the Yamaha XG scheme is somewhat different, and more widely standard, but that's a test for another day), it's necessary to change tracks and go back to the original track to trigger an update in the Instrument Parameters box. This is a bug. We just never have solved it. Having done that, the checkboxes that appear are: [x] Program [x] Variation We'll start by doing an Init GS on the synth, to put it back in a known default state. We'll start by picking "126. Helicopter" for [x] Program, because this program's variations are extremely obvious and not subtle. Channel set to "fixed" because it came up that way by default. IPB State: [x] Program "126. Helicopter" [x] Variation "Helicopter" Channel [fixed] Now change the variation to "Car Crash." [x] Program "126. Helicopter" [x] Variation "Car Crash" Channel [fixed] Look at synth. It says "Car Crash." Play keyboard. Car crash sound emerges. Change to a different active track. Program changes. Change back to previous track. Program changes. Change variations here there and everywhere, jump around from track to track, in all cases the program/variation are being maintained as expected per the active track I'm sitting on. All tests conducted by dinking around on a keyboard with different tracks active, with a Roland Sound Canvas. There was an update problem I consistently had to work around to get anywhere with this, but it was not in of itself a show stopper level problem. The core program/variation functionality appears to work as expected for Roland GS with a hardware synth. I need to try the test over again with QSynth and a suitable soundfont. What soundfont were you using that has variations? What other steps should I try to reproduce the issue? OBSERVATIONS: When all of this came up out of the box, the Volume for every instrument was set to 0. I had to go change the volume to > 0 to hear anything. In all cases, moving the volume knob DID NOT UPDATE the synth volume immediately, and the synth became out of sync with the GUI. IPB shows volume 123 (number the synth won't have gotten to by accident, thus recognizable marker), synth does NOT show volume of 123 on ANY channel. No channel is affected until I move off to a different track and then back to the original track to trigger an update, after having previously changed the volume knob. There really is a missing update or something, Tom. More careful experimentation with better documentation required to pin down how all of that is failing to meet expectations. I'll have to start over with a factory autoload and make sure everything begins from a known clean state, and report back. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
> > I couldn't find "Send Bank Select" checkbox on instrument parameter panel. My bad; I was reading from the internal names. Your settings seem correct and should be sending the variation select. The one thing I want to chase down is whether it's correct to send both LSB and MSB before sending program change. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI says yes. http://home.roadrunner.com/~jgglatt/tech/midispec.htm doesn't say. I can't test it on my cheap-o setup. FWIW (and this is why I'm CC-ing the dev list), we are setting send bank select in a suspicious way in MIDIInstrumentParameterPanel: Whichever of variation or bank is set latest controls whether Instrument's send bank select is set or cleared. Both just call m_selectedInstrument->setSendBankSelect(bool). So if variation is set, then cleared, Instrument will turn bank select entirely off. This seems wrong. I *don't* think that can be the source of Marcio's problem. He has both checks on, so regardless the history he would have send bank select = true, and if it were happening ISTM it would mess up banks rather than clear the variation. Tom Breton (Tehom) -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
Tom and Michael,
Thanks for your answers.
I've upgraded to 12.12.25 and issue remains.
I couldn't find "Send Bank Select" checkbox on instrument parameter panel.
I see just the following controls (with localized labels -- Pt_BR --
meaning below):
- "percussion" (checkbox)
- "program" (checkbox and combo selection)
- "variation" (checkbox and combo selection)
- "channel" ("fixed" or "auto")
- "receive external".
2013/1/3 Tom Breton (Tehom)
> >> Although studio setup remains the same (including instrument banks),
> >> when
> >> playing back, rosegarden seems to bypass assigned program variation, by
> >> always forcing default program for assigned program number.
> >
> > Afraid that's probably my fault. I think I know what's missing, so I'll
> > code a fix and push it ASAP.
> >
>
> Odd. I just checked the code of mine that I thought was at fault, and it
> isn't. It's already sending variation (ie, bank's LSB and MSB), though I
> feared it wasn't.
>
> The only case where it wouldn't is if Send Bank Select is not checked on
> MIDI Instrument Parameter Panel.
>
> Tom Breton (Tehom)
>
>
>
>
--
-
Marcio Scheibler
--
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
>> Although studio setup remains the same (including instrument banks), >> when >> playing back, rosegarden seems to bypass assigned program variation, by >> always forcing default program for assigned program number. > > Afraid that's probably my fault. I think I know what's missing, so I'll > code a fix and push it ASAP. > Odd. I just checked the code of mine that I thought was at fault, and it isn't. It's already sending variation (ie, bank's LSB and MSB), though I feared it wasn't. The only case where it wouldn't is if Send Bank Select is not checked on MIDI Instrument Parameter Panel. Tom Breton (Tehom) -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
> Although studio setup remains the same (including instrument banks), when > playing back, rosegarden seems to bypass assigned program variation, by > always forcing default program for assigned program number. Afraid that's probably my fault. I think I know what's missing, so I'll code a fix and push it ASAP. Tom Breton (Tehom) -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Trouble with instrument programs and variations
On 01/03/2013 07:45 AM, Marcio Scheibler wrote: > I've upgraded to rosegarden 12.04 and the issue remains... > Any ideas or any workaround ? Since you're already familiar with upgrading, can you grab 12.12.25 and see if the issue still remains? I'm going to guess it probably does, but I don't have time to test it for myself just at the moment. Thinking back, I can't remember the last time I verified that variations worked correctly, and it seems entirely possible and even likely that we just never realized we broke this. We'll get it sorted out one way or another. This is the kind of thing that could justify an immediate new release if it turns out it's still broken, and it probably will turn out that way if I don't miss my guess. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122712 ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
