Re: [sage-devel] Re: Transpiling from Mathematica syntax to sage backends

[Rocky Bernstein]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:41 PM rjf  wrote:

> You of course realize that in expressing good intentions, you are not
> alone, and certainly
> not first.
> The devil is in the details.  Parsing Mathematica expressions into an
> intermediate
> form (like a Lisp symbolic expression) is the easy part.
>
> Here's a detail that came up in another mailing list.
> What is Infinity  or Inf in Mma?
>
Is it the same as in your favorite other CAS? Or in your
> favorite text?
>

User choice by option: If you want loose compatibility, then Inf in Mma. If
you want strict compatibility there is a strict compatibility library and
you can define SageInf in Mma.


> Mma  says 1/Inf = 0.   It also says -1/Inf =0.   From which
> we might conclude that 1=-1.  Do we have to get around
> this?  If so, how?  If you have a system that has a
> more nuanced version of infinity, what do you do?
>
> There are other similar issues.
>
> Another point -- that if two CAS come up with the "same"
> answer, it must be right, is wishful thinking. In certain
> simple domains I would treat equal results as strongly confirmatory.
> There used to be a list of system-independent bugs --
> caused by common simplistic thinking, where
> mathematics taught in high school is used as
> the basis for manipulating more sophisticated
> ideas.
>
> Sorry to provide a bit more rain on your parade.
>

I don't think you get the idea that flaky can sometimes be okay.  I know
this is going to sound a broken record, but you keep coming back to the
same thing. Do you use google translate? If so, have you ever found its
answers to be wrong? If you haven't used google translate, let me suggest
that enough people use it that google still supports that project and it
continues to fund and improve it. Spoiler alert: *it still makes a lot of
mistakes*.

If we insisted that rational numbers on computers be the correct rational
as it is in mathematics, then floating point would have never been
invented. Even more basic, if we had insisted that integers on computers be
the same as integers in mathematics and not that silly modulo arithmetic,
it would have taken computers a lot longer to get started.

I am sure there are some or many that feel that this was the wrong thing to
do. Personally, I, as apparently many others, *understand and accept *that
the limitations and live with flakiness.

When MMa fist came out, I recall at IBM there were a lot of people who were
put off by it because it did a lot of computation by discrete approximation
which was pervasively considered (at IBM) worse than the richness of
Scratchpad2's more symbolic and more thorough handling.

Looking back though, it is hard to argue that it should have come initially
with something that was better and that improved the existing art on
symbolic terms. And in the meantime, MMa has continued to improve to the
point where it is used far more than those better systems like ScratchPad2.


> Have fun with the easy parts and see how far you
> can get with the hard parts!
>


Will do!  In the short term, this is strictly for my own education and
amusement and meager needs. I don't envision that anything I will do in the
short term that will care about whether 1/Inf = 0. But when I do encounter
it and it bothers me, I know about and have written compatibility
libraries. (In fact I ran into something similar in Python. The details are
here: Converting Python complex string output like (-0-0j) into an
equivalent complex string
.
I solved it as I indicated here: I wrote my own routine

that does what is needed.



> RJF
>

I don't think you get the idea that flaky is sometimes okay if you declare
it flakey.

Sorry to rain on your parade.


>
> On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 11:30:51 AM UTC-7, Rocky Bernstein wrote:
>>
>> Ok. Something to consider is rendering to Mathematica output. (And then
>> doing the same thing for Sage.)
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:37 PM Fredrik Johansson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I will just mention http://fungrim.org/grim/ which is somewhat related
>>> to the present discussion.
>>>
>>> This is an attempt to design a symbolic formula language that is easy to
>>> parse and has well-defined semantics. Key points:
>>>
>>> * Can be used within Python (and other languages) without special syntax
>>> * Expressly designed to describe mathematical objects and not for
>>> reflection (manipulation of symbolic expressions is meant to be done in the
>>> environment, e.g. Python, not from within the symbolic expression language)
>>> * Expressions are inert by default (there is no automatically-enforced
>>> pseudo-canonical form, and any form of evaluation or rewriting must be
>>> invoked explicitly by the user)
>>> * Evaluation and simplification is subject to a rigorous assumptions
>>> system
>>> * There is an 

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Transpiling from Mathematica syntax to sage backends

[rjf]

You of course realize that in expressing good intentions, you are not 
alone, and certainly
not first.
The devil is in the details.  Parsing Mathematica expressions into an 
intermediate
form (like a Lisp symbolic expression) is the easy part.

Here's a detail that came up in another mailing list.
What is Infinity  or Inf in Mma?
Is it the same as in your favorite other CAS? Or in your
favorite text?
Mma  says 1/Inf = 0.   It also says -1/Inf =0.   From which
we might conclude that 1=-1.  Do we have to get around
this?  If so, how?  If you have a system that has a
more nuanced version of infinity, what do you do?

There are other similar issues.

Another point -- that if two CAS come up with the "same"
answer, it must be right, is wishful thinking. In certain
simple domains I would treat equal results as strongly confirmatory.
There used to be a list of system-independent bugs --
caused by common simplistic thinking, where
mathematics taught in high school is used as
the basis for manipulating more sophisticated
ideas.  

Sorry to provide a bit more rain on your parade.
Have fun with the easy parts and see how far you
can get with the hard parts!
RJF

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 11:30:51 AM UTC-7, Rocky Bernstein wrote:
>
> Ok. Something to consider is rendering to Mathematica output. (And then 
> doing the same thing for Sage.)
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:37 PM Fredrik Johansson  > wrote:
>
>> I will just mention http://fungrim.org/grim/ which is somewhat related 
>> to the present discussion.
>>
>> This is an attempt to design a symbolic formula language that is easy to 
>> parse and has well-defined semantics. Key points:
>>
>> * Can be used within Python (and other languages) without special syntax
>> * Expressly designed to describe mathematical objects and not for 
>> reflection (manipulation of symbolic expressions is meant to be done in the 
>> environment, e.g. Python, not from within the symbolic expression language)
>> * Expressions are inert by default (there is no automatically-enforced 
>> pseudo-canonical form, and any form of evaluation or rewriting must be 
>> invoked explicitly by the user)
>> * Evaluation and simplification is subject to a rigorous assumptions 
>> system
>> * There is an explicit distinction between symbolic variables and 
>> polynomial indeterminates
>> * Real numbers are mathematical real numbers
>> * Functions are mathematical functions, with well-defined and consistent 
>> behavior at "exceptional points"
>>
>> The specification is still far from complete and the implementation still 
>> has a long way to go, but I'm working on it :-)
>>
>> I'm using it with some success to build http://fungrim.org/. Thanks to 
>> the strong semantics, it is possible to do automated randomized testing of 
>> the formulas and their assumptions. To illustrate:
>>
>> >>> formula = Equal(Gamma(x+1), x*Gamma(x))
>> >>> formula.test(variables=[x], assumptions=Element(x, CC))
>> {x: -3}...  True
>> {x: 8}...  True
>> {x: 0}...  False
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   ...
>> ValueError
>>
>> (Gamma(0+1) = 0*Gamma(0) is not a true identity.) With correct 
>> assumptions, excluding the poles:
>>
>> >>> formula.test(variables=[x], assumptions=Element(x, SetMinus(CC, 
>> ZZLessEqual(0
>> {x: Sqrt(2)}...  Unknown
>> {x: Mul(Mul(2, Pi), ConstI)}...  Unknown
>> {x: Div(Mul(3, Pi), 2)}...  Unknown
>> {x: Neg(Div(1, 2))}...  True
>> {x: Div(1, 2)}...  True
>> {x: Add(Sqrt(2), 1)}...  Unknown
>> {x: Add(1, ConstI)}...  Unknown
>> ...
>> {x: Sub(Pi, ConstI)}...  Unknown
>> {x: Sub(Sqrt(2), 1)}...  Unknown
>> {x: 64}...  True
>> {x: 255}...  Unknown
>> {x: 7}...  True
>> Passed 100 instances (25 True, 75 Unknown, 0 False)
>> {'True': 25, 'Unknown': 75, 'False': 0, 'Total': 100}
>>
>> Fredrik
>>
>> On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 5:21:07 PM UTC+2 rocky.b...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Ok. This is on my back-burner list of things to get to. 
>>>
>>> It is something I would like to do, and think I could do reasonably 
>>> well, but I never know if I'll have the free time. 
>>>
>>> And if someone else wants to take the lead, I'll be happy to share what 
>>> I know on the compiler/transpiler end and contribute.
>>>
>>> Also, if there is funding for this effort, then it will most likely get 
>>> done. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:52 AM kcrisman  wrote:
>>>



   Clearly, adding the ability to parse some Mathematica code fits well 
> into that goal.  If nothing else, it could be a helpful step in 
> converting 
> existing Mathematica user code so that it can work in Sage, and 
> that's part of being a viable alternative.
>

 This is an important point that I am sorry we did not mention earlier; 
 thanks, William.  I have definitely had many requests for such an 
 automated 
 tool in the past from colleagues with a lot of Mma stuff.

 -- 

>>> You received 

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Transpiling from Mathematica syntax to sage backends

[Rocky Bernstein]

Ok. Something to consider is rendering to Mathematica output. (And then
doing the same thing for Sage.)

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:37 PM Fredrik Johansson <
fredrik.johans...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will just mention http://fungrim.org/grim/ which is somewhat related to
> the present discussion.
>
> This is an attempt to design a symbolic formula language that is easy to
> parse and has well-defined semantics. Key points:
>
> * Can be used within Python (and other languages) without special syntax
> * Expressly designed to describe mathematical objects and not for
> reflection (manipulation of symbolic expressions is meant to be done in the
> environment, e.g. Python, not from within the symbolic expression language)
> * Expressions are inert by default (there is no automatically-enforced
> pseudo-canonical form, and any form of evaluation or rewriting must be
> invoked explicitly by the user)
> * Evaluation and simplification is subject to a rigorous assumptions system
> * There is an explicit distinction between symbolic variables and
> polynomial indeterminates
> * Real numbers are mathematical real numbers
> * Functions are mathematical functions, with well-defined and consistent
> behavior at "exceptional points"
>
> The specification is still far from complete and the implementation still
> has a long way to go, but I'm working on it :-)
>
> I'm using it with some success to build http://fungrim.org/. Thanks to
> the strong semantics, it is possible to do automated randomized testing of
> the formulas and their assumptions. To illustrate:
>
> >>> formula = Equal(Gamma(x+1), x*Gamma(x))
> >>> formula.test(variables=[x], assumptions=Element(x, CC))
> {x: -3}...  True
> {x: 8}...  True
> {x: 0}...  False
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   ...
> ValueError
>
> (Gamma(0+1) = 0*Gamma(0) is not a true identity.) With correct
> assumptions, excluding the poles:
>
> >>> formula.test(variables=[x], assumptions=Element(x, SetMinus(CC,
> ZZLessEqual(0
> {x: Sqrt(2)}...  Unknown
> {x: Mul(Mul(2, Pi), ConstI)}...  Unknown
> {x: Div(Mul(3, Pi), 2)}...  Unknown
> {x: Neg(Div(1, 2))}...  True
> {x: Div(1, 2)}...  True
> {x: Add(Sqrt(2), 1)}...  Unknown
> {x: Add(1, ConstI)}...  Unknown
> ...
> {x: Sub(Pi, ConstI)}...  Unknown
> {x: Sub(Sqrt(2), 1)}...  Unknown
> {x: 64}...  True
> {x: 255}...  Unknown
> {x: 7}...  True
> Passed 100 instances (25 True, 75 Unknown, 0 False)
> {'True': 25, 'Unknown': 75, 'False': 0, 'Total': 100}
>
> Fredrik
>
> On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 5:21:07 PM UTC+2 rocky.b...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Ok. This is on my back-burner list of things to get to.
>>
>> It is something I would like to do, and think I could do reasonably well,
>> but I never know if I'll have the free time.
>>
>> And if someone else wants to take the lead, I'll be happy to share what I
>> know on the compiler/transpiler end and contribute.
>>
>> Also, if there is funding for this effort, then it will most likely get
>> done.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:52 AM kcrisman  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Clearly, adding the ability to parse some Mathematica code fits well
 into that goal.  If nothing else, it could be a helpful step in converting
 existing Mathematica user code so that it can work in Sage, and that's
 part of being a viable alternative.

>>>
>>> This is an important point that I am sorry we did not mention earlier;
>>> thanks, William.  I have definitely had many requests for such an automated
>>> tool in the past from colleagues with a lot of Mma stuff.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "sage-devel" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/z3XBhQOCh9E/unsubscribe.
>>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8dd1a617-6bcc-40e3-a1c7-89efb2927597o%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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To 

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Transpiling from Mathematica syntax to sage backends

[Fredrik Johansson]

I will just mention http://fungrim.org/grim/ which is somewhat related to 
the present discussion.

This is an attempt to design a symbolic formula language that is easy to 
parse and has well-defined semantics. Key points:

* Can be used within Python (and other languages) without special syntax
* Expressly designed to describe mathematical objects and not for 
reflection (manipulation of symbolic expressions is meant to be done in the 
environment, e.g. Python, not from within the symbolic expression language)
* Expressions are inert by default (there is no automatically-enforced 
pseudo-canonical form, and any form of evaluation or rewriting must be 
invoked explicitly by the user)
* Evaluation and simplification is subject to a rigorous assumptions system
* There is an explicit distinction between symbolic variables and 
polynomial indeterminates
* Real numbers are mathematical real numbers
* Functions are mathematical functions, with well-defined and consistent 
behavior at "exceptional points"

The specification is still far from complete and the implementation still 
has a long way to go, but I'm working on it :-)

I'm using it with some success to build http://fungrim.org/. Thanks to the 
strong semantics, it is possible to do automated randomized testing of the 
formulas and their assumptions. To illustrate:

>>> formula = Equal(Gamma(x+1), x*Gamma(x))
>>> formula.test(variables=[x], assumptions=Element(x, CC))
{x: -3}...  True
{x: 8}...  True
{x: 0}...  False
Traceback (most recent call last):
  ...
ValueError

(Gamma(0+1) = 0*Gamma(0) is not a true identity.) With correct assumptions, 
excluding the poles:

>>> formula.test(variables=[x], assumptions=Element(x, SetMinus(CC, 
ZZLessEqual(0
{x: Sqrt(2)}...  Unknown
{x: Mul(Mul(2, Pi), ConstI)}...  Unknown
{x: Div(Mul(3, Pi), 2)}...  Unknown
{x: Neg(Div(1, 2))}...  True
{x: Div(1, 2)}...  True
{x: Add(Sqrt(2), 1)}...  Unknown
{x: Add(1, ConstI)}...  Unknown
...
{x: Sub(Pi, ConstI)}...  Unknown
{x: Sub(Sqrt(2), 1)}...  Unknown
{x: 64}...  True
{x: 255}...  Unknown
{x: 7}...  True
Passed 100 instances (25 True, 75 Unknown, 0 False)
{'True': 25, 'Unknown': 75, 'False': 0, 'Total': 100}

Fredrik

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 5:21:07 PM UTC+2 rocky.b...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ok. This is on my back-burner list of things to get to. 
>
> It is something I would like to do, and think I could do reasonably well, 
> but I never know if I'll have the free time. 
>
> And if someone else wants to take the lead, I'll be happy to share what I 
> know on the compiler/transpiler end and contribute.
>
> Also, if there is funding for this effort, then it will most likely get 
> done. 
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:52 AM kcrisman  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>   Clearly, adding the ability to parse some Mathematica code fits well 
>>> into that goal.  If nothing else, it could be a helpful step in converting 
>>> existing Mathematica user code so that it can work in Sage, and that's 
>>> part of being a viable alternative.
>>>
>>
>> This is an important point that I am sorry we did not mention earlier; 
>> thanks, William.  I have definitely had many requests for such an automated 
>> tool in the past from colleagues with a lot of Mma stuff.
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "sage-devel" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/z3XBhQOCh9E/unsubscribe.
>>
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8dd1a617-6bcc-40e3-a1c7-89efb2927597o%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[sage-devel] Interactive online posters with SageMath / Jupyter / ...

[Nicolas M. Thiery]

Hi!

Alejandro Morales is one of the organizers of this years's online
edition of the algebraic combinatorics conference FPSAC. He asked me
for suggestions to send to the authors that would want to prepare an
interactive online poster with Sage. The question naturally
generalizes to «with Jupyter».

I threw in a few initial pointers there:

https://hackmd.io/qphK5FWLQWu1BmH_P_BWjg

Edits and additions most welcome, ... This is a good occasion to
showcase and disseminate technology. Of particular interest are links
to existing examples!

Thanks in advance,

Cheers,
Nicolas
--
Nicolas M. Thiéry "Isil" 
http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/

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Re: [sage-devel] build errors on void linux

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 6:55:06 AM UTC-7, Nicolo' wrote:
>
>
> diff --git a/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt 
> b/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt 
> new file mode 100644 
> index 00..daf8fd8679 
> --- /dev/null 
> +++ b/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt 
> @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@ 
> +giac-devel 
> +libgiac 
>
>
>
Thanks. More packages, please 

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[sage-devel] Re: Porting sagemath to Raspberry Pi OS

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 1:08:20 AM UTC-7, Jaap Spies wrote:
>
> We need a port of sagemath to Raspbery Pi OS.
>

Using https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29091, developers can do portability 
testing on this platform without need for access to an actual raspberry pi.
 

tox -e docker-raspbian-buster-armhf-standard

 

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Transpiling from Mathematica syntax to sage backends

[Rocky Bernstein]

Ok. This is on my back-burner list of things to get to.

It is something I would like to do, and think I could do reasonably well,
but I never know if I'll have the free time.

And if someone else wants to take the lead, I'll be happy to share what I
know on the compiler/transpiler end and contribute.

Also, if there is funding for this effort, then it will most likely get
done.



On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:52 AM kcrisman  wrote:

>
>
>
>   Clearly, adding the ability to parse some Mathematica code fits well
>> into that goal.  If nothing else, it could be a helpful step in converting
>> existing Mathematica user code so that it can work in Sage, and that's
>> part of being a viable alternative.
>>
>
> This is an important point that I am sorry we did not mention earlier;
> thanks, William.  I have definitely had many requests for such an automated
> tool in the past from colleagues with a lot of Mma stuff.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/z3XBhQOCh9E/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8dd1a617-6bcc-40e3-a1c7-89efb2927597o%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Transpiling from Mathematica syntax to sage backends

[kcrisman]

  Clearly, adding the ability to parse some Mathematica code fits well into 
> that goal.  If nothing else, it could be a helpful step in converting 
> existing Mathematica user code so that it can work in Sage, and that's 
> part of being a viable alternative.
>

This is an important point that I am sorry we did not mention earlier; 
thanks, William.  I have definitely had many requests for such an automated 
tool in the past from colleagues with a lot of Mma stuff.

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Re: [sage-devel] build errors on void linux

[Dima Pasechnik]

the ecl 20 ticket has been positively reviewed. there is no need to spend
time fighting problems caused by the outdated ecl 16.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 14:55 Nicolo' Piazzalunga, 
wrote:

> Let us include giac-devel (1.5.0.87):
>
> diff --git a/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt
> b/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt
> new file mode 100644
> index 00..daf8fd8679
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt
> @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@
> +giac-devel
> +libgiac
>
> It seems ecl (16.1.3) needs to be patched, as in
> https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/tree/master/srcpkgs/ecl
> Shall we test with version 20 or try to work with 16?
>
>
> On 7/8/20 6:21 PM, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> > Also the "giac" build error is confirmed.
> >
> > On the other hand "r" and "suitesparse" build successfully.
> >
> > To reproduce the build errors that you reported, information about
> > equivalent distribution packages needs to be added to
> > build/pkgs/*/distros/void.txt
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 8:10:37 AM UTC-7, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> >
> > I can already confirm a build error in the ecl package.
> > You may want to try with ticket
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/22191
> >  , which makes a major
> > update to ECL.
> >
> > On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 6:56:02 AM UTC-7, Matthias Koeppe
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks. I have added gettext-devel to
> > build/pkgs/void-bootstrap.txt on the ticket.
> > "tox -e docker-voidlinux-standard" is now beginning to build
> > Sage. I'll let you know if it reproduces the errors that you
> > reported.
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 5:39:28 AM UTC-7, Nicolo' wrote:
> >
> > Does adding
> > libltdl-develpython3-pkgconfig  gettext-devel
> > help?
> >
> > On 7/7/20 9:18 PM, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> >  > Thanks. I have put your changes on the branch of
> >  > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30044
> >  and did some
> > additional changes.
> >  >
> >  > You can now test using:
> >  >
> >  > tox -e docker-voidlinux-standard
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Currently, it fails as follows:
> >  >
> >  > src/doc/bootstrap:85: installing
> > src/doc/en/reference/repl/options.txt
> >  > gettext and the gettextize program must be installed and
> > be in
> >  > your PATH. E.g. Homebrew installs them in
> > /usr/local/opt/gettext/bin.
> >  > Bootstrap failed. Either upgrade autotools or run
> > bootstrap with
> >  > the -d option to download the auto-generated files
> instead.
> >  >
> >  > This means that some package are missing.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> > Google Groups "sage-devel" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/kiEh8JgbWeQ/unsubscribe.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> > sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > .
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/43be6f39-f9cc-4738-887a-00c2bea3a988o%40googlegroups.com
> > <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/43be6f39-f9cc-4738-887a-00c2bea3a988o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer
> >.
>
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Re: [sage-devel] build errors on void linux

[Nicolo' Piazzalunga]

Let us include giac-devel (1.5.0.87):

diff --git a/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt 
b/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt

new file mode 100644
index 00..daf8fd8679
--- /dev/null
+++ b/build/pkgs/giac/distros/void.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,2 @@
+giac-devel
+libgiac

It seems ecl (16.1.3) needs to be patched, as in
https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/tree/master/srcpkgs/ecl
Shall we test with version 20 or try to work with 16?


On 7/8/20 6:21 PM, Matthias Koeppe wrote:

Also the "giac" build error is confirmed.

On the other hand "r" and "suitesparse" build successfully.

To reproduce the build errors that you reported, information about 
equivalent distribution packages needs to be added to 
build/pkgs/*/distros/void.txt



On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 8:10:37 AM UTC-7, Matthias Koeppe wrote:

I can already confirm a build error in the ecl package.
You may want to try with ticket
https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/22191
 , which makes a major
update to ECL.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 6:56:02 AM UTC-7, Matthias Koeppe wrote:

Thanks. I have added gettext-devel to
build/pkgs/void-bootstrap.txt on the ticket.
"tox -e docker-voidlinux-standard" is now beginning to build
Sage. I'll let you know if it reproduces the errors that you
reported.


On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 5:39:28 AM UTC-7, Nicolo' wrote:

Does adding
libltdl-develpython3-pkgconfig  gettext-devel
help?

On 7/7/20 9:18 PM, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
 > Thanks. I have put your changes on the branch of
 > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30044
 and did some
additional changes.
 >
 > You can now test using:
 >
 > tox -e docker-voidlinux-standard
 >
 >
 > Currently, it fails as follows:
 >
 > src/doc/bootstrap:85: installing
src/doc/en/reference/repl/options.txt
 > gettext and the gettextize program must be installed and
be in
 > your PATH. E.g. Homebrew installs them in
/usr/local/opt/gettext/bin.
 > Bootstrap failed. Either upgrade autotools or run
bootstrap with
 > the -d option to download the auto-generated files instead.
 >
 > This means that some package are missing.

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Re: [sage-devel] Making Sagemath available to Raspberry Pi

['Doris Behrendt' via sage-devel]

+1

> Am 10.07.2020 um 13:03 schrieb Dima Pasechnik :
> 
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 12:01 PM Jaap Spies  wrote:
>> 
>> In a previous post I wrote:
>> 
>> \begin quote
>> Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry Pi's 
>> out there.
>> Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS.
>> On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica.
>> Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to the
>> people of Raspberries.
>> 
>> I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second Edition.
>> You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4.
>> [snipped]
>> 
>> I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for Raspberry Pi 
>> OS!
>> 
>> I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but I plea
>> someone would take this serious.
>> 
>> Jaap
>> 
>> early adapter of sage
>> \end quote
>> 
>> I wanted to start a discussion on the need to be present on the Raspberry Pi 
>> platform.
>> But my intentions were buried under a lot of technicalities.
>> 
>> SAGE was intended to by an opensource alternative for the big M's, among 
>> them Mathematica.
>> What we see on the rasbian distribution:
>> du:
>> 32000 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0/AddOns/Applications
>> 36244 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0/AddOns
>> 1097480 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0
>> 1097484 Wolfram/WolframEngine
>> 1101392 Wolfram/
>> root@rasp4g:/opt#
>> 
>> You see Wolfram was very clever in getting Mathematica in raspbian: 1.1 GB 
>> of disk space
>> 
>> We will never get that space in the official distro, but I plea to make 
>> Sagemath
>> more available and known on the Raspberry Pi platform.
>> 
>> There are a lot of computer labs in schools and colleges all running rasbian.
>> And users easily link Math and Mathematics to Mathematica.
>> Try Google Search: math Raspberry Pi of raspberry math
>> and you will be overwhelmed by Wolfram's Mathematica
>> 
>> Do a Google Search: raspberry pi sagemath
>> and you see some pages from the year 2013 and a page of my website.
>> 
>> The only thing we can do is to try getting Sagemath more visible.
>> In documentation, on the website and make a binary available.
> 
> I'm getting the latest Rasberry Pi with 8GB of RAM, we'll see how far
> it will do.
> 
>> (William are you here?)
>> 
>> Jaap Spies
>> 
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "sage-devel" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/36e28475-07f7-4938-aaed-410526534b18o%40googlegroups.com.
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Making Sagemath available to Raspberry Pi

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 12:01 PM Jaap Spies  wrote:
>
> In a previous post I wrote:
>
> \begin quote
> Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry Pi's out 
> there.
> Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS.
> On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica.
> Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to the
> people of Raspberries.
>
> I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second Edition.
> You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4.
> [snipped]
>
> I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for Raspberry Pi 
> OS!
>
> I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but I plea
> someone would take this serious.
>
> Jaap
>
> early adapter of sage
> \end quote
>
> I wanted to start a discussion on the need to be present on the Raspberry Pi 
> platform.
> But my intentions were buried under a lot of technicalities.
>
> SAGE was intended to by an opensource alternative for the big M's, among them 
> Mathematica.
> What we see on the rasbian distribution:
> du:
> 32000 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0/AddOns/Applications
> 36244 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0/AddOns
> 1097480 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0
> 1097484 Wolfram/WolframEngine
> 1101392 Wolfram/
> root@rasp4g:/opt#
>
> You see Wolfram was very clever in getting Mathematica in raspbian: 1.1 GB of 
> disk space
>
> We will never get that space in the official distro, but I plea to make 
> Sagemath
> more available and known on the Raspberry Pi platform.
>
> There are a lot of computer labs in schools and colleges all running rasbian.
> And users easily link Math and Mathematics to Mathematica.
> Try Google Search: math Raspberry Pi of raspberry math
> and you will be overwhelmed by Wolfram's Mathematica
>
> Do a Google Search: raspberry pi sagemath
> and you see some pages from the year 2013 and a page of my website.
>
> The only thing we can do is to try getting Sagemath more visible.
> In documentation, on the website and make a binary available.

I'm getting the latest Rasberry Pi with 8GB of RAM, we'll see how far
it will do.

> (William are you here?)
>
> Jaap Spies
>
> --
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> "sage-devel" group.
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[sage-devel] Making Sagemath available to Raspberry Pi

[Jaap Spies]

In a previous post I wrote:

\begin quote
Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry Pi's 
out there.
Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS.
On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica.
Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to the
people of Raspberries.

I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second Edition.
You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4.
[snipped]

I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for Raspberry 
Pi OS!

I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but I plea
someone would take this serious.

Jaap

early adapter of sage
\end quote

I wanted to start a discussion on the need to be present on the Raspberry 
Pi platform.
But my intentions were buried under a lot of technicalities.

SAGE was intended to by an opensource alternative for the big M's, among 
them Mathematica.
What we see on the rasbian distribution:
du:
32000 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0/AddOns/Applications
36244 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0/AddOns
1097480 Wolfram/WolframEngine/12.0
1097484 Wolfram/WolframEngine
1101392 Wolfram/
root@rasp4g:/opt# 

You see Wolfram was very clever in getting Mathematica in raspbian: 1.1 GB 
of disk space

We will never get that space in the official distro, but I plea to make 
Sagemath 
more available and known on the Raspberry Pi platform.

There are a lot of computer labs in schools and colleges all running 
rasbian.
And users easily link Math and Mathematics to Mathematica.
Try Google Search: math Raspberry Pi of raspberry math
and you will be overwhelmed by Wolfram's Mathematica

Do a Google Search: raspberry pi sagemath
and you see some pages from the year 2013 and a page of my website.

The only thing we can do is to try getting Sagemath more visible.
In documentation, on the website and make a binary available.
(William are you here?)

Jaap Spies

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Porting sagemath to Raspberry Pi OS

[Jaap Spies]

Raspberry Pi OS is the new name of raspbian.
And indeed raspbian uses apt to deal with packages, but have their own 
repositories
based on debian


On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 11:22:30 AM UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:11 AM Dima Pasechnik  > wrote: 
> > 
> > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:08 AM Jaap Spies  > wrote: 
> > > 
> > > After this technicalities I reclaim my points: We need a port of 
> sagemath to Raspbery Pi OS. 
>
> As far as I see, it is 
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspberry-pi-desktop/ 
> (based on Debian Buster) - it uses apt to deal with packages, so the 
> setup we use on Debian/Ubuntu should 
> in principle be working. 
>
> Is this the OS you are referring to? 
>
> I don't know whether they try to import all the Debian packages, but 
> it looks as if Debian 
> effort to have Sage in Debian would be helpful here. 
>
> Thanks, 
> Dima 
>
> > > At least we need a binary of sagemath for Raspberry Pi OS. 
> > the binaries are made using 
> > https://github.com/sagemath/binary-pkg 
> > 
> > Could you try this on your Rasberry Pi? 
> > (probably nobody ever tested this on ARM, so YMMV). 
> > 
> > Dima 
> > > 
> > > Jaap Spies 
> > > 
> > > On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 2:31:52 PM UTC+2, Jaap Spies wrote: 
> > >> 
> > >> Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry 
> Pi's out there. 
> > >> Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS. 
> > >> On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica. 
> > >> Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to 
> the 
> > >> people of Raspberies. 
> > >> 
> > >> I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second 
> Edition. 
> > >> You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4. 
> > >> 
> > >> Some time ago I could build sage-9.0 on my RPi4's, but now there are 
> problems 
> > >> with fplll. I opened a ticket, someone changed the priority to minor. 
> > >> 
> > >> I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for 
> Raspberry Pi OS! 
> > >> 
> > >> I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but 
> I plea 
> > >> someone would take this serious. 
> > >> 
> > >> Jaap 
> > >> 
> > >> early adapter of sage 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-...@googlegroups.com . 
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8ff7114f-29e6-46ec-9b96-87be8fcd778co%40googlegroups.com.
>  
>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Porting sagemath to Raspberry Pi OS

[Jaap Spies]

No

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 11:22:30 AM UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:11 AM Dima Pasechnik  > wrote: 
> > 
> > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:08 AM Jaap Spies  > wrote: 
> > > 
> > > After this technicalities I reclaim my points: We need a port of 
> sagemath to Raspbery Pi OS. 
>
> As far as I see, it is 
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspberry-pi-desktop/ 
> (based on Debian Buster) - it uses apt to deal with packages, so the 
> setup we use on Debian/Ubuntu should 
> in principle be working. 
>
> Is this the OS you are referring to? 
>
> I don't know whether they try to import all the Debian packages, but 
> it looks as if Debian 
> effort to have Sage in Debian would be helpful here. 
>
> Thanks, 
> Dima 
>
> > > At least we need a binary of sagemath for Raspberry Pi OS. 
> > the binaries are made using 
> > https://github.com/sagemath/binary-pkg 
> > 
> > Could you try this on your Rasberry Pi? 
> > (probably nobody ever tested this on ARM, so YMMV). 
> > 
> > Dima 
> > > 
> > > Jaap Spies 
> > > 
> > > On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 2:31:52 PM UTC+2, Jaap Spies wrote: 
> > >> 
> > >> Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry 
> Pi's out there. 
> > >> Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS. 
> > >> On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica. 
> > >> Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to 
> the 
> > >> people of Raspberies. 
> > >> 
> > >> I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second 
> Edition. 
> > >> You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4. 
> > >> 
> > >> Some time ago I could build sage-9.0 on my RPi4's, but now there are 
> problems 
> > >> with fplll. I opened a ticket, someone changed the priority to minor. 
> > >> 
> > >> I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for 
> Raspberry Pi OS! 
> > >> 
> > >> I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but 
> I plea 
> > >> someone would take this serious. 
> > >> 
> > >> Jaap 
> > >> 
> > >> early adapter of sage 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-...@googlegroups.com . 
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8ff7114f-29e6-46ec-9b96-87be8fcd778co%40googlegroups.com.
>  
>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Porting sagemath to Raspberry Pi OS

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:11 AM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:08 AM Jaap Spies  wrote:
> >
> > After this technicalities I reclaim my points: We need a port of sagemath 
> > to Raspbery Pi OS.

As far as I see, it is
https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspberry-pi-desktop/
(based on Debian Buster) - it uses apt to deal with packages, so the
setup we use on Debian/Ubuntu should
in principle be working.

Is this the OS you are referring to?

I don't know whether they try to import all the Debian packages, but
it looks as if Debian
effort to have Sage in Debian would be helpful here.

Thanks,
Dima

> > At least we need a binary of sagemath for Raspberry Pi OS.
> the binaries are made using
> https://github.com/sagemath/binary-pkg
>
> Could you try this on your Rasberry Pi?
> (probably nobody ever tested this on ARM, so YMMV).
>
> Dima
> >
> > Jaap Spies
> >
> > On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 2:31:52 PM UTC+2, Jaap Spies wrote:
> >>
> >> Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry Pi's 
> >> out there.
> >> Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS.
> >> On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica.
> >> Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to the
> >> people of Raspberies.
> >>
> >> I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second Edition.
> >> You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4.
> >>
> >> Some time ago I could build sage-9.0 on my RPi4's, but now there are 
> >> problems
> >> with fplll. I opened a ticket, someone changed the priority to minor.
> >>
> >> I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for Raspberry 
> >> Pi OS!
> >>
> >> I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but I 
> >> plea
> >> someone would take this serious.
> >>
> >> Jaap
> >>
> >> early adapter of sage
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "sage-devel" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/8ff7114f-29e6-46ec-9b96-87be8fcd778co%40googlegroups.com.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Porting sagemath to Raspberry Pi OS

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:08 AM Jaap Spies  wrote:
>
> After this technicalities I reclaim my points: We need a port of sagemath to 
> Raspbery Pi OS.
> At least we need a binary of sagemath for Raspberry Pi OS.
the binaries are made using
https://github.com/sagemath/binary-pkg

Could you try this on your Rasberry Pi?
(probably nobody ever tested this on ARM, so YMMV).

Dima
>
> Jaap Spies
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 2:31:52 PM UTC+2, Jaap Spies wrote:
>>
>> Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry Pi's 
>> out there.
>> Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS.
>> On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica.
>> Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to the
>> people of Raspberies.
>>
>> I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second Edition.
>> You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4.
>>
>> Some time ago I could build sage-9.0 on my RPi4's, but now there are problems
>> with fplll. I opened a ticket, someone changed the priority to minor.
>>
>> I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for Raspberry Pi 
>> OS!
>>
>> I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but I plea
>> someone would take this serious.
>>
>> Jaap
>>
>> early adapter of sage
>
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[sage-devel] Re: Porting sagemath to Raspberry Pi OS

[Jaap Spies]

After this technicalities I reclaim my points: We need a port of sagemath 
to Raspbery Pi OS.
At least we need a binary of sagemath for Raspberry Pi OS.

Jaap Spies

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 2:31:52 PM UTC+2, Jaap Spies wrote:
>
> Saying Raspberry Pi is saying education. There are zillion Raspberry Pi's 
> out there.
> Almost all of them are running Raspbian, now called Raspberry Pi OS.
> On every raspbian system there is an implementation of Mathematica.
> Wolfram was clever when he decided to make Matematica available to the
> people of Raspberies.
>
> I did some experimentation out of an old book Mathematica Second Edition.
> You can really do some math on a Raspberry Pi 4.
>
> Some time ago I could build sage-9.0 on my RPi4's, but now there are 
> problems 
> with fplll. I opened a ticket, someone changed the priority to minor.
>
> I think it is of major importance to have at least a binary for Raspberry 
> Pi OS!
>
> I'm old and have no time and no energy to pursue this to the end, but I 
> plea
> someone would take this serious.
>
> Jaap
>
> early adapter of sage
>

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