Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On 25 July 2012 01:24, William Stein wst...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Julien Puydt julien.pu...@laposte.net wrote: Le 24/07/2012 21:28, William Stein a écrit : I googled the original poster (Kevin Smith) and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Smith It seems that he might be Silent Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Bob), so I'm guessing he might not be interested in VOICE input. I'm not a native english speaker, but isn't the combination of Kevin and Smith very common? Sorry, I should have put joke tags around my post. Some of us realised. Not all the John Cremona's you'll find with Google are me either (especially not this one: http://johncremona.com/). ;) John -- William -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
You think you have it bad? Look at who the other Javier López Peña is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Javier_L%C3%B3pez_Pe%C3%B1a when this guy hit the news I received hate mail on a daily basis for almost a year :-/ On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:31:29 AM UTC+1, John Cremona wrote: Some of us realised. Not all the John Cremona's you'll find with Google are me either (especially not this one: http://johncremona.com/). ;) John -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:46:38 AM UTC-4, Javier López Peña wrote: You think you have it bad? Look at who the other Javier López Peña is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Javier_L%C3%B3pez_Pe%C3%B1a when this guy hit the news I received hate mail on a daily basis for almost a year :-/ On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:31:29 AM UTC+1, John Cremona wrote: Some of us realised. Not all the John Cremona's you'll find with Google are me either (especially not this one: http://johncremona.com/). ;) I am quite confident in saying I am the only person in the world with my name. Not the only kcrisman - I get a fair amount of misdirected mail - but the combination is unique. In fact, until Google started ignoring quotation marks and giving pages that didn't have the words involved, there was only one hit that my name without quotes got which *wasn't* in the one with quotes - misspellings of the names of two European officials involved in the nascent Republic of Macedonia in the mid-90's, Carl-Dieter Spranger and Patrick Chrismant. - kcrisman -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
If you Google my name in the Italian version of Google, you will surely find some news about a guy with my name who has been murdered in 2007. Anyway, IMHO a Nintendo DS will never be able to perform Sage computations, but it may be nice to implement the web interface. :) -- *Andrea Lazzarotto* - http://andrealazzarotto.com* * -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
[sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On 7/25/12 8:30 AM, Andrea Lazzarotto wrote: Anyway, IMHO a Nintendo DS will never be able to perform Sage computations, but it may be nice to implement the web interface. :) Yes, but apparently there is a python for Nintendo DS. I think it is still an interesting question whether sympy might be a useful backend for some calculations. I think probably handwriting recognition is beyond our capabilities at this point. Thanks, Jason -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:28:17 PM UTC-7, kcrisman wrote: I assume you've seen this before? http://www.molto-project.eu/story/simple-dialog-system-sage-natural-language Actually I had not seen the recent work there. It seems like their goal is, long-term, to have that sort of interaction. Not really. They are more interested in generative grammar: take a semantic representation and render it into several different natural languages. What would be needed for input from the user is a grammar AND A RECOGNIZER FOR THAT SPOKEN LANGUAGE that encompasses (say) Sage. A grammar for naturally spoken mathematics fragments can be constructed, and with error correction facilities might be useful. A complete grammar that handles all input is probably unattainable. Getting the phonemes into the right lexemes for math is difficult, and so far as I know, there is no free open-source program that is even close to handling this problem. Even proprietary software doesn't do all that well without substantial diddling. Presumably this would be no harder with Maxima or anything else... It would presumably be somewhat easier. One would not have to parse spoken python, for example. Sorry if it doesn't seem immediately relevant, buried in their documents somewhere is stuff about voice activation. I didn't spot that. -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
[sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On 7/24/12 2:57 AM, Kevin Smith wrote: Hello, I'd like to propose a Sage project for all groups interested. The project is a version of Sage Math for Nintendo DS hardware. Sage's being open-source software means the project may only be developed as a rom. The hardware is more than capable for sage, and more suited for visualization of mathematics than any hardware I know of. The hardware consists of two screens, a touch screen with a stylus and a larger screen above it, and buttons for commands. In the way I am imagining the software working, a user would use a stylus to write whatever mathematics is of interest on the touchscreen and receive a visual output on the screen above it. The hardware is wonderfully portable, which is partly why it appeals to me, as I think of various mathematical forms when out of doors walking and etc. I doubt I am characteristically alone in this respect. I understand sage is used for more than visualization of mathematics, yet materially speaking a GUI is what sage offers that a thinking person does not already have. In other words, visualization of mathematics is a most significant component because all utilization of sage requires a visualization of math, a GUI. Now, please understand I am very unfamiliar with code and programming. I feel my having significant presence with this project may not support an honest endeavour for quality. That said, my reasons for posting are to share a proposal with a group who may be interested and to share a willingness to help in whatever fashion does support a quality project as this one. Thanks! That does sound interesting. If these are the specs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS#Technical_specifications then I think a first step would be to get Python running on the system. If you had that, then you'd hopefully have sympy, which would already give you some mathematics capabilities. It looks like someone has already done something with python: https://www.develer.com/trac/dspython/ Please post updates! I can't help more tangibly, but it would be really fun to hear of progress. Thanks, Jason -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
That does sound interesting. However, I'm concerned that the DS won't be able to handle it entirely onboard. Looking at the specs, the DS only has 4M of ram (with a possible extension of unknown size). If one went for the 3DS (which has significantly higher specs), you might be able to run a light version of sage. The other option would be to use the onboard WiFi to connect to a server that does all the actual number-crunching and simply display stuff on the DS. Then the big issue would simply be the math handwriting detection (I say simply, but it's not that simple). Sounds like an interesting project, but I don't know that I can help much either (not having a DS and all) -- Jason E -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
Le 24/07/2012 16:13, Jason Ekstrand a écrit : Then the big issue would simply be the math handwriting detection (I say simply, but it's not that simple). I attended a talk about OCR for mathematics a few years ago, and from what I remember, recognizing from a picture is indeed very very difficult -- basically because mathematics aren't just line-based and forward-going (fractions, sub and sup text, accents... a large variety of fonts). I also remember that if you don't have just the picture but the writing movement itself, then things are much simpler. Snark on #sagemath -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
Detexify does some neat mathematics handwriting recognition: http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html --Christopher On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Julien Puydt julien.pu...@laposte.netwrote: Le 24/07/2012 16:13, Jason Ekstrand a écrit : Then the big issue would simply be the math handwriting detection (I say simply, but it's not that simple). I attended a talk about OCR for mathematics a few years ago, and from what I remember, recognizing from a picture is indeed very very difficult -- basically because mathematics aren't just line-based and forward-going (fractions, sub and sup text, accents... a large variety of fonts). I also remember that if you don't have just the picture but the writing movement itself, then things are much simpler. Snark on #sagemath -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscribe@** googlegroups.com sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/sage-devel http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
Frankly, this sounds like a waste of time, and the original poster admits he doesn't have a clue. These devices cost $150 or more in US, according to wikipedia. For under $250 you can buy a low-end laptop that would be fine to run Sage. The idea that existing technology for handwriting of math is a substitute for a keyboard, or that deTexify would be of much help requires a substantial misunderstanding of the needed technology. I believe it is easier to get VOICE input of math than handwriting, and perfecting that in a Sage context might be a fun project. But don't complicate your life by programming on (or for) a toy. RJF PS. If you can't use google to find references and are truly interested and have some skills, feel free to email questions about voice etc. On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:24:13 AM UTC-7, Christopher Swenson wrote: Detexify does some neat mathematics handwriting recognition: http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html --Christopher On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Julien Puydt julien.pu...@laposte.netwrote: Le 24/07/2012 16:13, Jason Ekstrand a écrit : Then the big issue would simply be the math handwriting detection (I say simply, but it's not that simple). I attended a talk about OCR for mathematics a few years ago, and from what I remember, recognizing from a picture is indeed very very difficult -- basically because mathematics aren't just line-based and forward-going (fractions, sub and sup text, accents... a large variety of fonts). I also remember that if you don't have just the picture but the writing movement itself, then things are much simpler. Snark on #sagemath -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscribe@* *googlegroups.com sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/sage-devel http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, rjf wrote: Frankly, this sounds like a waste of time, and the original poster admits he doesn't have a clue. These devices cost $150 or more in US, according to wikipedia. For under $250 you can buy a low-end laptop that would be fine to run Sage. The idea that existing technology for handwriting of math is a substitute for a keyboard, or that deTexify would be of much help requires a substantial misunderstanding of the needed technology. I believe it is easier to get VOICE input of math than handwriting, and perfecting that in a Sage context might be a fun project. But don't complicate your life by programming on (or for) a toy. RJF PS. If you can't use google to find references and are truly interested and have some skills, feel free to email questions about voice etc. I assume you've seen this before? http://www.molto-project.eu/story/simple-dialog-system-sage-natural-language It seems like their goal is, long-term, to have that sort of interaction. Presumably this would be no harder with Maxima or anything else... -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
I believe it is easier to get VOICE input of math than handwriting, and perfecting that in a Sage context might be a fun project. But don't complicate your life by programming on (or for) a toy. RJF PS. If you can't use google to find references and are truly interested and have some skills, feel free to email questions about voice etc. I assume you've seen this before? http://www.molto-project.eu/story/simple-dialog-system-sage-natural-language It seems like their goal is, long-term, to have that sort of interaction. Presumably this would be no harder with Maxima or anything else... Sorry if it doesn't seem immediately relevant, buried in their documents somewhere is stuff about voice activation. -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12:05 PM, rjf fate...@gmail.com wrote: Frankly, this sounds like a waste of time, and the original poster admits he doesn't have a clue. These devices cost $150 or more in US, according to wikipedia. For under $250 you can buy a low-end laptop that would be fine to run Sage. The idea that existing technology for handwriting of math is a substitute for a keyboard, or that deTexify would be of much help requires a substantial misunderstanding of the needed technology. I believe it is easier to get VOICE input of math than handwriting, and perfecting that in a Sage context might be a fun project. But don't complicate your life by programming on (or for) a toy. RJF PS. If you can't use google to find references and are truly interested and I googled the original poster (Kevin Smith) and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Smith It seems that he might be Silent Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Bob), so I'm guessing he might not be interested in VOICE input. William have some skills, feel free to email questions about voice etc. On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:24:13 AM UTC-7, Christopher Swenson wrote: Detexify does some neat mathematics handwriting recognition: http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html --Christopher On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Julien Puydt julien.pu...@laposte.net wrote: Le 24/07/2012 16:13, Jason Ekstrand a écrit : Then the big issue would simply be the math handwriting detection (I say simply, but it's not that simple). I attended a talk about OCR for mathematics a few years ago, and from what I remember, recognizing from a picture is indeed very very difficult -- basically because mathematics aren't just line-based and forward-going (fractions, sub and sup text, accents... a large variety of fonts). I also remember that if you don't have just the picture but the writing movement itself, then things are much simpler. Snark on #sagemath -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
Le 24/07/2012 21:28, William Stein a écrit : I googled the original poster (Kevin Smith) and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Smith It seems that he might be Silent Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Bob), so I'm guessing he might not be interested in VOICE input. I'm not a native english speaker, but isn't the combination of Kevin and Smith very common? Snark on #sagemath -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposed Project
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Julien Puydt julien.pu...@laposte.net wrote: Le 24/07/2012 21:28, William Stein a écrit : I googled the original poster (Kevin Smith) and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Smith It seems that he might be Silent Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Bob), so I'm guessing he might not be interested in VOICE input. I'm not a native english speaker, but isn't the combination of Kevin and Smith very common? Sorry, I should have put joke tags around my post. -- William Snark on #sagemath -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
