Re: Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
Hi all,
seems like my environment is very very forgiving. I missed amsmath and amssym.
I’ve just committed a new version which should compile in standard
environments.
Cheers,
Martin
On Friday 30 Aug 2013 09:13:02 William Stein wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Jason Grout
>
> wrote:
> > On 8/30/13 5:53 AM, Martin Albrecht wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> it’s here: https://bitbucket.org/malb/sage-gb-book
> >
> > Also, you could create a project on cloud.sagemath.com and collaboratively
> > edit the textbook right there. Live, real-time. And push changes back to
> > bitbucket. And have automatic side-by-side pdf previews, which include
> > sagetex output.
Btw. I tend to work while offline quite a bit (I have a very long commute
involving planes and international borders) so cloud.sagemath.org doesn’t seem
like the right environment for *me*. Yet, if people want to collaborate there
that shouldn’t affect them.
> The book is in several different files and my implementation isn't
> perfect (yet) in the case of multiple files (so watch out -- that
> said, this could be a good sample input for dealing with multiple
> files). That said, I don't know how to build the book.
>
> pdflatex sage-gb-book.tex
>
> Error with minionpro, and I see
>
> % I really like MinionPro but you can comment this out if it causes
> problems: %
> http://carlo-hamalainen.net/blog/2007/12/11/installing-minion-pro-fonts
> \usepackage{MinionPro}
>
>
> so I comment out it, since MinionPro isn't in Ubuntu (even the latest
> 13.10 as far as I can tell), and installing it involves a bunch of
> steps. I tried commenting out that line and...
>
> pdflatex sage-gb-book.tex
>
> l.1 \chapter
> {Introduction} [1]
> Chapter 1.
> ! Undefined control sequence.
> \mathbb
>{F}
> l.8 \item $\F
> $ is a field, not necessarily algebraically closed.
> $\overline{...
>
>
> Martin, how is one supposed to build your book?
>
> > Just an idea
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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--
name: Martin Albrecht
_pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6532AFB4
_otr: 47F43D1A 5D68C36F 468BAEBA 640E8856 D7951CCF
_www: http://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/
_jab: martinralbre...@jabber.ccc.de
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Re: Re: Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
Martin Maybe one of us misunderstands the other (& maybe this should become a new thread? dunno). I am somewhat hesitant, though, to go too deep into signature based > algorithms > and new improvements... It was not my intention to go deep into signature based algorithms; I was trying to qualify the dynamic algorithm as not being signature based. As it dates from 1993, it's much older than F5 & variants. There's no need to put the newer stuff in there, but I was thinking the dynamic algorithm would be useful in a text that introduces to Sage, as an illustration of how to make two very different parts work together (MILP and Singular). If you think otherwise, okay. Out of curiosity, though, what do you think is wrong with the mathematical aspect? Did you have specific applications to commutative algebra in mind? If so, someone like Simon might be a better contributor. john perry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Jason Grout
wrote:
> On 8/30/13 5:53 AM, Martin Albrecht wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> it’s here: https://bitbucket.org/malb/sage-gb-book
>
>
> Also, you could create a project on cloud.sagemath.com and collaboratively
> edit the textbook right there. Live, real-time. And push changes back to
> bitbucket. And have automatic side-by-side pdf previews, which include
> sagetex output.
The book is in several different files and my implementation isn't
perfect (yet) in the case of multiple files (so watch out -- that
said, this could be a good sample input for dealing with multiple
files). That said, I don't know how to build the book.
pdflatex sage-gb-book.tex
Error with minionpro, and I see
% I really like MinionPro but you can comment this out if it causes problems:
% http://carlo-hamalainen.net/blog/2007/12/11/installing-minion-pro-fonts
\usepackage{MinionPro}
so I comment out it, since MinionPro isn't in Ubuntu (even the latest
13.10 as far as I can tell), and installing it involves a bunch of
steps. I tried commenting out that line and...
pdflatex sage-gb-book.tex
l.1 \chapter
{Introduction} [1]
Chapter 1.
! Undefined control sequence.
\mathbb
{F}
l.8 \item $\F
$ is a field, not necessarily algebraically closed. $\overline{...
Martin, how is one supposed to build your book?
> Just an idea
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
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Re: Re: Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
Hi all, it’s here: https://bitbucket.org/malb/sage-gb-book Cheers, Martin On Thursday 29 Aug 2013 20:53:32 john_perry_usm wrote: > Martin > > > I'd be willing to help with this. Aside from having worked with you on a > couple of the programs, I've been working on resurrecting the dynamic > algorithms of Caboara and Gritzmann and Sturmfels, using a new technique. I > also have some stuff you could probably use for introductory material. The > toy implementation shows some promise, even before tying it to signature > techniques (which is planned) and would illustrate how Sage lets you tie > symbolic & numerical techniques together. The research led to a few bug > fixes in the Mixed Integer Programming last year! :-) > > > john perry > > On Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:18:11 AM UTC-5, Martin Albrecht wrote: > > On Wednesday 28 Aug 2013 11:17:10 Rob Beezer wrote: > > > If you think this is a good project for the Sage community, then > > > > consider > > > > > demonstrate the viability by volunteering as an author, editor, producer > > > and/or manager of such an effort (in addition to those expressing > > > > interest > > > > > already above). > > > > Hi all, > > > > fwiw I toyed with the idea of turning part 2 of my thesis which introduce > > Gröbner bases and algorithms for computing them using Sage into a > > stand-alone > > text. It could be expanded, for example I have toy implementations of F4, > > F5, > > F4/F5 and Matrix-F5 in Sage, all algorithms that people could benefit from > > playing around with to wrap their heads around them. > > > > However, since I am not a mathematician but a cryptographer with a > > computer > > science degree (I think that shows in the material) and I am still a mere > > postdoc, I think it would need a second author or so. Perhaps someone with > > a > > stronger background in commutative algebra could partner up with me. > > > > Just an idea to throw into the ring. > > > > Cheers, > > Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6532AFB4 _otr: 47F43D1A 5D68C36F 468BAEBA 640E8856 D7951CCF _www: http://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/ _jab: martinralbre...@jabber.ccc.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Re: Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
Hi John, [sage-devel] awesome! I shall put what I have in a repository on bitbucket and you can then have a look to see what you think might need work etc.? I am somewhat hesitant, though, to go too deep into signature based algorithms and new improvements, this sounds more like research than an introduction using Sage? Cheers, Martin On Thursday 29 Aug 2013 20:53:32 you wrote: > Martin > > > I'd be willing to help with this. Aside from having worked with you on a > couple of the programs, I've been working on resurrecting the dynamic > algorithms of Caboara and Gritzmann and Sturmfels, using a new technique. I > also have some stuff you could probably use for introductory material. The > toy implementation shows some promise, even before tying it to signature > techniques (which is planned) and would illustrate how Sage lets you tie > symbolic & numerical techniques together. The research led to a few bug > fixes in the Mixed Integer Programming last year! :-) > > > john perry > > On Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:18:11 AM UTC-5, Martin Albrecht wrote: > > On Wednesday 28 Aug 2013 11:17:10 Rob Beezer wrote: > > > If you think this is a good project for the Sage community, then > > > > consider > > > > > demonstrate the viability by volunteering as an author, editor, producer > > > and/or manager of such an effort (in addition to those expressing > > > > interest > > > > > already above). > > > > Hi all, > > > > fwiw I toyed with the idea of turning part 2 of my thesis which introduce > > Gröbner bases and algorithms for computing them using Sage into a > > stand-alone > > text. It could be expanded, for example I have toy implementations of F4, > > F5, > > F4/F5 and Matrix-F5 in Sage, all algorithms that people could benefit from > > playing around with to wrap their heads around them. > > > > However, since I am not a mathematician but a cryptographer with a > > computer > > science degree (I think that shows in the material) and I am still a mere > > postdoc, I think it would need a second author or so. Perhaps someone with > > a > > stronger background in commutative algebra could partner up with me. > > > > Just an idea to throw into the ring. > > > > Cheers, > > Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6532AFB4 _otr: 47F43D1A 5D68C36F 468BAEBA 640E8856 D7951CCF _www: http://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/ _jab: martinralbre...@jabber.ccc.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
Martin I'd be willing to help with this. Aside from having worked with you on a couple of the programs, I've been working on resurrecting the dynamic algorithms of Caboara and Gritzmann and Sturmfels, using a new technique. I also have some stuff you could probably use for introductory material. The toy implementation shows some promise, even before tying it to signature techniques (which is planned) and would illustrate how Sage lets you tie symbolic & numerical techniques together. The research led to a few bug fixes in the Mixed Integer Programming last year! :-) john perry On Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:18:11 AM UTC-5, Martin Albrecht wrote: > > On Wednesday 28 Aug 2013 11:17:10 Rob Beezer wrote: > > If you think this is a good project for the Sage community, then > consider > > demonstrate the viability by volunteering as an author, editor, producer > > and/or manager of such an effort (in addition to those expressing > interest > > already above). > > Hi all, > > fwiw I toyed with the idea of turning part 2 of my thesis which introduce > Gröbner bases and algorithms for computing them using Sage into a > stand-alone > text. It could be expanded, for example I have toy implementations of F4, > F5, > F4/F5 and Matrix-F5 in Sage, all algorithms that people could benefit from > playing around with to wrap their heads around them. > > However, since I am not a mathematician but a cryptographer with a > computer > science degree (I think that shows in the material) and I am still a mere > postdoc, I think it would need a second author or so. Perhaps someone with > a > stronger background in commutative algebra could partner up with me. > > Just an idea to throw into the ring. > > Cheers, > Martin > > > -- > name: Martin Albrecht > _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6532AFB4 > _otr: 47F43D1A 5D68C36F 468BAEBA 640E8856 D7951CCF > _www: http://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/ > _jab: martinr...@jabber.ccc.de -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Wednesday 28 Aug 2013 11:17:10 Rob Beezer wrote: > If you think this is a good project for the Sage community, then consider > demonstrate the viability by volunteering as an author, editor, producer > and/or manager of such an effort (in addition to those expressing interest > already above). Hi all, fwiw I toyed with the idea of turning part 2 of my thesis which introduce Gröbner bases and algorithms for computing them using Sage into a stand-alone text. It could be expanded, for example I have toy implementations of F4, F5, F4/F5 and Matrix-F5 in Sage, all algorithms that people could benefit from playing around with to wrap their heads around them. However, since I am not a mathematician but a cryptographer with a computer science degree (I think that shows in the material) and I am still a mere postdoc, I think it would need a second author or so. Perhaps someone with a stronger background in commutative algebra could partner up with me. Just an idea to throw into the ring. Cheers, Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6532AFB4 _otr: 47F43D1A 5D68C36F 468BAEBA 640E8856 D7951CCF _www: http://martinralbrecht.wordpress.com/ _jab: martinralbre...@jabber.ccc.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
There were discussions about a Sage Book Series at the two Sage Days (notebook and edu) in Seattle back in June, motivated in part by this thread. Discussion centered on interest in creating books about Sage, and the advisability of the Sage community producing them ourselves. I volunteered to report those discussions and continue the wider discussion here. (My apologies for the extreme tardiness!) There are several examples of such books already, either about doing mathematics with Sage, or about learning mathematics with Sage as a tool (not complete): Sage Beginner's Guide, Craig Finch, Packt Publishing, 364 pp., $44.95 [1] Sage Tutorial release 4.3.5, William Stein, Sage Development Team, 104 pp., $9.00 [2] Calcul mathématique avec Sage, Paul Zimmerman, et al., 468 pp,. $9.44 [3] Introduction to Cryptography with Open-Source Software, Alasdair McAndrew, 461 pp., $70.29 [4] Differential Calculus and Sage, David Joyner, William Granville, 374 pp., $18 [5] The majority expressing an opinion felt having the Sage project publish such books was preferable to working with a commercial publisher. Points raised in the discussion. Copy editing: is hard work. Commercial publishers have personnel available who do this for a living. Sage developers do very similar work in reviewing code and documentation, so we have some of these skills available. There was a feeling some commercial publishers are relying more on "camera-ready" copy and not doing as thorough a job of this in every case. The need for an Editorial Board was discussed above. Marketing: is hard. A commercial publisher would have incentive to do some of this, in return for a copyright. Customer Reviews and "star ratings" on a site like Amazon.com could be as useful, or more so. The Sage website provides a natural place to promote a book series. Production: has become much easier with print-on-demand services. In the above examples, Amazon's CreateSpace [6] is a popular choice. I have had good luck with Lightning Source [7], which provides wider distribution (Barnes & Noble, etc), but requires more paperwork to setup and manage. Lulu.com [8] is another option, but not as professional as Lightning Source (in my experience). Timeliness, Accuracy: Print-on-demand allows for a new edition at any time. Sage code does bit rot (as we all know all too well) and improvements materialize, so if an author is committed to *maintaining* a book, it could stay very current. Print-on-demand might also allow for a much faster turnaround from completion to availability (keeping code fresher). Promotion: A book series would be a good initiative to increase adoption and use of Sage. Beginners do appreciate the format of a self-contained introduction, and the availability could be appealing for use in courses. Availability: Using an open license would allow distribution in various formats (downloadable PDFs, ReST in Sage distribution). I suspect most Sage developers believe this would encourage uptake of the books, not discourage it. Pricing: I believe the prices above that are below $20 are for paperback editions with little or no revenue to the authors. The Sage Days discussion proposed generating some revenue for both Sage development and to support authoring and editing. Middle Ground: There was some sentiment for negotiating with a commercial publisher to allow exclusive rights for a period (18 months?) and then moving to an open license. Scope: Books strictly as "how-tos" on using Sage, or more broadly interpreted as textbooks or monographs where Sage is an integral part of the exposition? Evaluation: I mean of you - as a professional. Tenure, promotion, that sort of stuff. This is an important discussion, but I think it is peculiar to each individual and institution. Sage Developers contribute varied amounts of time and attention to Sage, each for their own reasons. I see it as the same here. I have cross-posted to sage-edu and sage-marketing. Please comment on the thread in sage-devel if you want to add to the discussion. If you think this is a good project for the Sage community, then consider demonstrate the viability by volunteering as an author, editor, producer and/or manager of such an effort (in addition to those expressing interest already above). Rob [1] http://www.amazon.com/Sage-Beginners-Guide-Craig-Finch/dp/1849514461/ [2] http://www.amazon.com/Tutorial-Release-4-3-5-William-Stein/dp/1452802033/ [3] http://www.amazon.com/Calcul-mathématique-avec-French-Edition/dp/1481191047/ [4] http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Cryptography-Open-Source-Mathematics-Applications/dp/143982570X/ [5] http://www.amazon.com/Differential-Calculus-Sage-David-Joyner/dp/1448662192/ [6] https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/ [7] http://www1.lightningsource.com/benefits_small.aspx [8] http://www.lulu.com/publish/books/ -- You received this message because
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
> That's not crazy at all. It's exactly the spirit that makes Sage great! > You seem to elude the possibility that this might be crazy AND be what makes Sage great. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Minh Nguyen wrote: > Hi William, > > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:41 AM, William Stein wrote: >> Would somebody like Minh Nguyen be willing to do technical copyediting >> in exchange for a percentage of sales? > > I might be crazy for saying this, but I would rather donate my time > for copy editing than risk a conflict of interest. That's not crazy at all. It's exactly the spirit that makes Sage great! -- William > > -- > Regards, > Minh Van Nguyen > http://bit.ly/mvngu -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
Hi William, On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:41 AM, William Stein wrote: > Would somebody like Minh Nguyen be willing to do technical copyediting > in exchange for a percentage of sales? I might be crazy for saying this, but I would rather donate my time for copy editing than risk a conflict of interest. -- Regards, Minh Van Nguyen http://bit.ly/mvngu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
[this didn't make it past gmane, so I repost here, sorry; I also add few things] On Tuesday, 4 June 2013 00:41:19 UTC+8, William wrote: > > On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 6:00 PM, rjf > > wrote: > [...] > > but if you have already written it and Springer would like to publish > it, > > and it doesn't interfere with your ownership, it seems like you have > > nothing to lose. But make sure you don't give away something > > unintentionally, whether it is right or your valuable time and energy. > > > > RJF > > > > You make some excellent points. > > I think a review process, editorial board, and useful reviews/rankings > on Amazon.com are starting to matter more to people than "it's published > by > Springer (or O'Reilly)". IMHO reputations of Springer series are going down fast, at least some of them. I received two books to referee for one of such series marketed as for "... rapid dissemination of novel blah blah..." in the past year, and in both cases they were of pathetic quality (e.g. one being a slighly rearranged 15-year old obscure university-published book, where one can e.g. find results of computational experiments run on a 133MHz Pentium machine, etc etc). And my negative reports were ignored all togther. Even more telling is that one of the book's authors is one of Editors of the very same series... > These are things we can accomplish > together, and it will be exactly the same amount of work as it would > be to put together a series through Springer. For example, we can > encourage many people on sage-devel to fill out amazon.com reviews of > the books, so people will get a sense that the book has been looked at > by experts. Also, Springer would charge about $40/copy, and give > us about $5 royalties per book. I think we could charge $20/copy and > make twice as much per book sold (not that making money is a > motivation for this sort of thing!), while charging readers half as > much. > > See > > > http://www.amazon.com/Calcul-math%C3%A9matique-avec-Sage-Zimmerman/dp/1481191047/ > > > for an example. > > What do people think? Do you think we can create our own series, of > just as high of quality as Springer, but more inexpensive for readers, > and with a creative commons license? > I think that's the way to go. New series by well-established commercial publishers pop up like mushrooms lately, and have little credibility. > > Would somebody like Minh Nguyen be willing to do technical copyediting > in exchange for a percentage of sales? > I suppose such people will be around, be it Minh (who certainly would do a great job) or someone else. > -- William > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Monday, June 3, 2013 6:26:22 PM UTC-7, kcrisman wrote: > > That is true in this context, you are right - though I wonder if someone > completely "new to the community" wanted to contribute something. I still > think the "real editorial board" makes sense. Yes, I think an editorial board is an important feature of William's proposal. And a "real" one would be even better. ;-) Rob -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Monday, June 3, 2013 5:36:22 PM UTC-4, Rob Beezer wrote: > > On Monday, June 3, 2013 11:16:54 AM UTC-7, kcrisman wrote: >> >> >> Intriguing idea. I think that you'd definitely need a real "editorial >> board", with at least blind review (probably double-blind is unrealistic?). >> > > As a referee of articles for a popular journal published by a large > mathematical society, I was polled by an editor about how I felt about > their process moving to blind reviews. I emphatically stated that part of > the appeal of contributing to Sage (rather than say writing research > articles) included that reviews were *not* blind, and the > positive-review/needs-work dichotomy of feedback. > > That is true in this context, you are right - though I wonder if someone completely "new to the community" wanted to contribute something. I still think the "real editorial board" makes sense. (I do think that for research journals things are different; it really impacts interactions, and some mathematicians feel that moving to double blind would help a lot with respect to having different standards for different famousness levels. A non-research journal I have reviewed for tries to do double-blind as often as possible.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Monday, June 3, 2013 11:16:54 AM UTC-7, kcrisman wrote: > > > Intriguing idea. I think that you'd definitely need a real "editorial > board", with at least blind review (probably double-blind is unrealistic?). > As a referee of articles for a popular journal published by a large mathematical society, I was polled by an editor about how I felt about their process moving to blind reviews. I emphatically stated that part of the appeal of contributing to Sage (rather than say writing research articles) included that reviews were *not* blind, and the positive-review/needs-work dichotomy of feedback. For a Sage book series, I'd expect some sort of prospectus or sample chapter process might be a better way to shepherd a project as demanding as writing a book (even a small one). Rob -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Monday, June 3, 2013 9:41:19 AM UTC-7, William wrote: > What do people think? Do you think we can create our own series, of > just as high of quality as Springer, but more inexpensive for readers, > and with a creative commons license? > Yes. +1. > Would somebody like Minh Nguyen be willing to do technical copyediting > in exchange for a percentage of sales? > Minh is too tough a copy editor. ;-) (Seriously, he would ensure the quality is very high.) Rob -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
+1 - After all the flaming on the mailinglist we should be able to face criticism ;-) Also, reviewer should be another core Sage developer. So chances are you know each other already... On Monday, June 3, 2013 9:16:10 PM UTC+1, William wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:16 AM, kcrisman > > wrote: > > > > at least blind review (probably double-blind is unrealistic?). > > > > non-rhetorical question: Do you really think anybody deciding on > whether to read/buy a book on amazon.com considers whether or not > there is blind or double-blind review of the manuscript? > > And the last book I was the "blind" reviewer for (for AMS or maybe > Springer), I just wrote to the author directly. And a few months ago > somebody was reviewing a book of mine for the AMS and requested to not > remain anonymous. > > William > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
The link was only showing the latest 10 titles by default, the series stretches back to about 2006 or so (look for the 'Show all 46 results' link). I'm looking at the title page for one right now and it's (c) Springer 2009. I own several books in this series, some are better than others but in general I've found them very helpful. On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 AM, David Kirkby wrote: > On 6 May 2013 02:00, rjf wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, May 2, 2013 1:27:30 PM UTC-7, William wrote: > >> > >> Hi Sage-Developers, > >> > >> There is a big series of small books about R that Springer publishes: > >> > >> http://www.springer.com/series/6991?detailsPage=titles > >> > >> The editorial director of that series at Springer just talked with me > >> on the phone for a while, and he says these are among "Springers best > >> selling books"; moreover, he believes they have a major impact on > >> making R a really viable platform for computational statistics. > >> > >> > > Am I the only one who finds this implausible? > > Here's an article on R > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html?pagewanted=all > > and it doesn't mention Springer. > > No, you are not the only one to find it implausible - I was suspicious > of that claim the minute I read it. Then I looked at the link William > gave. The earilest of that series appears to be published in 2012, but > R has been popular and viable for a very long time - well before 2012. > > Dave > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:16 AM, kcrisman wrote: > > at least blind review (probably double-blind is unrealistic?). > non-rhetorical question: Do you really think anybody deciding on whether to read/buy a book on amazon.com considers whether or not there is blind or double-blind review of the manuscript? And the last book I was the "blind" reviewer for (for AMS or maybe Springer), I just wrote to the author directly. And a few months ago somebody was reviewing a book of mine for the AMS and requested to not remain anonymous. William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On 6 May 2013 02:00, rjf wrote: > > > On Thursday, May 2, 2013 1:27:30 PM UTC-7, William wrote: >> >> Hi Sage-Developers, >> >> There is a big series of small books about R that Springer publishes: >> >> http://www.springer.com/series/6991?detailsPage=titles >> >> The editorial director of that series at Springer just talked with me >> on the phone for a while, and he says these are among "Springers best >> selling books"; moreover, he believes they have a major impact on >> making R a really viable platform for computational statistics. >> >> > Am I the only one who finds this implausible? > Here's an article on R > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html?pagewanted=all > and it doesn't mention Springer. No, you are not the only one to find it implausible - I was suspicious of that claim the minute I read it. Then I looked at the link William gave. The earilest of that series appears to be published in 2012, but R has been popular and viable for a very long time - well before 2012. Dave -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Monday, June 3, 2013 12:41:19 PM UTC-4, William wrote: > > On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 6:00 PM, rjf > > wrote: > [...] > > but if you have already written it and Springer would like to publish > it, > > and it doesn't interfere with your ownership, it seems like you have > > nothing to lose. But make sure you don't give away something > > unintentionally, whether it is right or your valuable time and energy. > > > > RJF > > > > You make some excellent points. > > I think a review process, editorial board, and useful reviews/rankings > on Amazon.com are starting to matter more to people than "it's published > by > Springer (or O'Reilly)". These are things we can accomplish > together, and it will be exactly the same amount of work as it would > be to put together a series through Springer. For example, we can > encourage many people on sage-devel to fill out amazon.com reviews of > the books, so people will get a sense that the book has been looked at > by experts. Also, Springer would charge about $40/copy, and give > us about $5 royalties per book. I think we could charge $20/copy and > make twice as much per book sold (not that making money is a > motivation for this sort of thing!), while charging readers half as > much. > > See > > > http://www.amazon.com/Calcul-math%C3%A9matique-avec-Sage-Zimmerman/dp/1481191047/ > > > for an example. > > What do people think? Do you think we can create our own series, of > just as high of quality as Springer, but more inexpensive for readers, > and with a creative commons license? > > Intriguing idea. I think that you'd definitely need a real "editorial board", with at least blind review (probably double-blind is unrealistic?). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 6:00 PM, rjf wrote: [...] > but if you have already written it and Springer would like to publish it, > and it doesn't interfere with your ownership, it seems like you have > nothing to lose. But make sure you don't give away something > unintentionally, whether it is right or your valuable time and energy. > > RJF > You make some excellent points. I think a review process, editorial board, and useful reviews/rankings on Amazon.com are starting to matter more to people than "it's published by Springer (or O'Reilly)". These are things we can accomplish together, and it will be exactly the same amount of work as it would be to put together a series through Springer. For example, we can encourage many people on sage-devel to fill out amazon.com reviews of the books, so people will get a sense that the book has been looked at by experts. Also, Springer would charge about $40/copy, and give us about $5 royalties per book. I think we could charge $20/copy and make twice as much per book sold (not that making money is a motivation for this sort of thing!), while charging readers half as much. See http://www.amazon.com/Calcul-math%C3%A9matique-avec-Sage-Zimmerman/dp/1481191047/ for an example. What do people think? Do you think we can create our own series, of just as high of quality as Springer, but more inexpensive for readers, and with a creative commons license? Would somebody like Minh Nguyen be willing to do technical copyediting in exchange for a percentage of sales? -- William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: use Sage!
> Looks like Springer behaves in this market as Apple in personal > computers, charging more for reasons not always clear... Just for fun : http://www.springer.com/computer/theoretical+computer+science/book/978-3-642-14763-0 And I found this one yesterday : http://www.springer.com/statistics/statistical+theory+and+methods/book/978-0-387-98766-8 Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
