Re: [sage-support] Re: Application/Use of Sage in IT company or Industries
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > On 2012-05-10, Priyanka Kapoor wrote: >> I want to ask that what is the use of sage? Why should we use it? >> Where its being used till date? >> These questions might be simple and i want to know before i go deep in >> sage. Please everyone on this mailing list reply that why you use >> sage? > recently there was a post on sage-devel from Robert Miller (who wrote > quite a bit of Sage code): > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/Hz9tagOntyg/CZLpRcF8XAkJ > soliciting job applications from Sage developers. > > So this is an example of Sage use in industry. Nowhere in the message does he say that they actually use Sage.The closest is "We do the math, using a lot of open source Python software as well as our own secret sauce. We also make contributions back to the tools we use, as we understand the importance of open source." > Otherwise, indeed, it's hard to answer; e.g. there are numerous scientific > articles and books written using Sage... > >> Whatever i think about sage is that sage is helpful for teaching maths. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Priyanka Kapoor >> http://kapoorpriyanka.in >> Linux User Group, Ludhiana >> > > -- > To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > sage-support+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support > URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Application/Use of Sage in IT company or Industries
On Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:12:32 AM UTC-7, William wrote: > > On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Dima wrote: > > recently there was a post on sage-devel from Robert Miller (who wrote > > quite a bit of Sage code): > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/Hz9tagOntyg/CZLpRcF8XAkJ > > soliciting job applications from Sage developers. > > > > So this is an example of Sage use in industry. > > Nowhere in the message does he say that they actually use Sage.The > closest is "We do the math, using a lot of open source Python > software as well as our own secret sauce. We also make contributions > back to the tools we use, as we understand the importance of open > source." > Well spotted! In fact it's probably hard to classify in general. The full story: we don't use Sage in production, but we use several of its components, including atlas, numpy, scipy, R. I have made extensive use of Sage in prototyping things. In fact I've actually ported some of the Python 2.7 code we have to be compatible with 2.6 so that I can import our libraries in a Sage environment. I think that Sage can be a very hard sell for sysadmin/ops type people in industry, because it is a very big install and the latest versions aren't available through debian or things like pip or easy_install. Although we here all realize that Sage Just Works, when someone in that sort of role looks at Sage as a project that might need to be installed on their production servers, they easily bristle. That's what happened at my job, so instead we are installing the pieces that we need individually (and again Sage was a big help as we consulted it a few times to fix compilation/linking issues that had already been solved in the Sage distro). -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Application/Use of Sage in IT company or Industries
On 05/13/12 06:36 PM, Robert Miller wrote: I think that Sage can be a very hard sell for sysadmin/ops type people in industry, because it is a very big install Sage is similar in size to Mathematica, and probably MATLAB and Maple too. The binary installations for all of these packages are 100's of MB. and the latest versions aren't available through debian or things like pip or easy_install. That is more likely to be an issue. Although we here all realize that Sage Just Works, when someone in that sort of role looks at Sage as a project that might need to be installed on their production servers, they easily bristle. Production servers and Sage will never mix in the eyes of a competent system admin who values his/her job. For me at least, it is hard to justify using Sage for commercial purposes. There are several reasons * You can't buy a commercial support contract. So any support issues must be on a public forum. (Compare this to Apache and Wireshark, which are two open-source tools used a lot commercially). * It's not a native Windows application. (Personally I'm not fan of Windows, but not everyone shares my views.) * Code is depreciated quite regularly, so if I write something today, there's a reasonable probability it wont work for someone else in two years time with a different version of Sage. * There's a fairly high probability that on Linux at least, a later version of Linux wont run an earlier version of Sage. * I don't feel the software is tested enough. * It does not have the pedigree of packages like MATLAB. Dave -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Application/Use of Sage in IT company or Industries
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: > On 05/13/12 06:36 PM, Robert Miller wrote: > >> I think that Sage can be a very hard sell for sysadmin/ops type people in >> industry, because it is a very big install > > > Sage is similar in size to Mathematica, and probably MATLAB and Maple too. > The binary installations for all of these packages are 100's of MB. > > >> and the latest versions aren't >> available through debian or things like pip or easy_install. > > > That is more likely to be an issue. > > >> Although we >> here all realize that Sage Just Works, when someone in that sort of role >> looks at Sage as a project that might need to be installed on their >> production servers, they easily bristle. > > > Production servers and Sage will never mix in the eyes of a competent system > admin who values his/her job. > > > For me at least, it is hard to justify using Sage for commercial purposes. > There are several reasons > > * You can't buy a commercial support contract. So any support issues must be > on a public forum. (Compare this to Apache and Wireshark, which are two > open-source tools used a lot commercially). > > * It's not a native Windows application. (Personally I'm not fan of Windows, > but not everyone shares my views.) > > * Code is depreciated quite regularly, deprecated. "depreciated" is a completely different word. -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Application/Use of Sage in IT company or Industries
On 14 May 2012 05:23, William Stein wrote: >> * Code is depreciated quite regularly, > > deprecated. "depreciated" is a completely different word. Sorry. An unfortunate error, though I could think of worst words with a similar spelling! Dave -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-support] Re: Application/Use of Sage in IT company or Industries
On Sunday, 13 May 2012 19:36:13 UTC+2, Robert Miller wrote: > > On Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:12:32 AM UTC-7, William wrote: >> >> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Dima wrote: >> > recently there was a post on sage-devel from Robert Miller (who wrote >> > quite a bit of Sage code): >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/Hz9tagOntyg/CZLpRcF8XAkJ >> > soliciting job applications from Sage developers. >> > >> > So this is an example of Sage use in industry. >> >> Nowhere in the message does he say that they actually use Sage.The >> closest is "We do the math, using a lot of open source Python >> software as well as our own secret sauce. We also make contributions >> back to the tools we use, as we understand the importance of open >> source." >> > > Well spotted! In fact it's probably hard to classify in general. The full > story: we don't use Sage in production, but we use several of its > components, including atlas, numpy, scipy, R. I have made extensive use of > Sage in prototyping things. In fact I've actually ported some of the Python > 2.7 code we have to be compatible with 2.6 so that I can import our > libraries in a Sage environment. > > > quid.com would neither confirm nor deny they use Sage :-) > I think that Sage can be a very hard sell for sysadmin/ops type people in > industry, because it is a very big install and the latest versions aren't > available through debian or things like pip or easy_install. Although we > here all realize that Sage Just Works, when someone in that sort of role > looks at Sage as a project that might need to be installed on their > production servers, they easily bristle. That's what happened at my job, so > instead we are installing the pieces that we need individually (and again > Sage was a big help as we consulted it a few times to fix > compilation/linking issues that had already been solved in the Sage distro). > yeah, sysadmins tend to be PITAs. They have to justify their existence, so they want to spend 10 times more time and effort to install and maintain a part of Sage rather than using Sage as it is :-) They even think that easy_install and pip and debian always work... -- To post to this group, send email to sage-support@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-support+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support URL: http://www.sagemath.org
