Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] GPT?

[Tom H]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Jose Marques  wrote:
>> On 15 Jun 2016, at 13:33, Tom H  wrote:
>>
>> For a journaled filesystem, if you have access to a Mac, you can
>> disable the journal before using the disk on SL 7.
>
> Just to make things interesting Apple plans to move to a new
> filesystem, APFS.

Thanks. Apple's been talking about a new fs since releasing OS X, if
not before that.

It's about time that they stopped grafting features onto hfs and wrote
something from scratch. I hope that they've chosen an open license for
apfs.

(They intended to switch to zfs and even had developer previews in
2008/2009 and a "new feature" page but they killed the whole thing
shortly before Sun was bought. I've always assumed that it was because
they were worried about Oracle but there may have been a purely
technical rationale...)

Re: GPT?

[Tom H]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:16 PM, ToddAndMargo <toddandma...@zoho.com> wrote:


> I should have said GPT partition with HFS+ format.

Thanks for the confirmation. I meant to ask earlier, but forgot,
whether you were assuming that the disk was gpt because it came from a
Apple because, when you format a disk on OS X, you have three possible
schemes, gpt, msdos, and apple partitipn map, as well as different
hfsplus and fat options.


> I don't have an Apple either. Apple does not allow you to
> use a virtual machine of OSx, unless the base system is
> Apple hardware (not going to happen).

There must be a Mac somewhere otherwise you wouldn't be using a Mac disk.


> I am seeing a lot more Apple computers out there since
> the advent of Frankenstein and Sons (Windows 8 and Nein,
> oops, 10). I personally find OSx to be excruciatingly weird,
> but I need to eat, so I will work on anything folks are willing
> to pay for. (I make a lot of money off M$'s endless quality,
> security, and reliability issues.)

All the people whom I know who've switched to OS X have done so after
using an iPhone and/or an iPad.

Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] GPT?

[Jose Marques]

> On 15 Jun 2016, at 13:33, Tom H  wrote:
> 
> For a journaled filesystem, if you have access to a Mac, you can disable the 
> journal before using the disk on SL 7.

Just to make things interesting Apple plans to move to a new filesystem, APFS.

The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland, No. SC013532.



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Re: GPT?

[Tom H]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Lamar Owen  wrote:
> On 06/11/2016 03:12 PM, Joseph Areeda wrote:
>>
>> I can give this a try for you I'm a little confused. Pretty sure the
>> partition tables are fine but I don't think you can use the Apple file
>> system, Mac OS X extended.
>>
>> The FAT or EX FAT file system are compatible, I use them often.
>
> The nutshell version of the solution I separately e-mailed to Todd directly
> (I keep forgetting that the SL lists are 'reply-all' lists..) is to
> enable ELrepo and 'yum install kmod-hfsplus' if you want read-only journaled
> HFS+ or read/write HFS+ (no journal). If your HFS+ filesystem has a journal,
> you need the Paragon HFS/NTFS bundle to get read/write, but it has some
> issues with large transfers on EL7 (works flawlessly on EL6).

For a journaled filesystem, if you have access to a Mac, you can
disable the journal before using the disk on SL 7.

Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] GPT?

[Jose Marques]

> On 14 Jun 2016, at 21:14, David Sommerseth <sl+us...@lists.topphemmelig.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> That should be supported out-of-the box on most of the OSes you work with.  I 
> generally have had no interoperability issues with vfat for many years.

I format flash drives with MBR and ExFAT (Windows 8/8.1/10 doesn't seem to like 
the GPT partitions that OS X creates). ExFAT handles very large files. The only 
problem is that Microsoft has patents for ExFAT so on Linux you tend to have to 
install something to support it.

If your target is Linux and you don't want to install ExFAT support then OS X 
has tar and split to make your large files fit onto FAT.

The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland, No. SC013532.



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Re: GPT?

[Todd Chester]

On 06/14/2016 01:17 PM, David Sommerseth wrote:

Just some more details:




I always wondered about that.  Thank you!

Re: GPT?

[jdow]

On 2016-06-14 11:16, ToddAndMargo wrote:
...


Hi David,

I should have said GPT partition with HFS+ format.

I am basically looking for a shared format that will
accommodate large file transfers.

And OSx doesn't support NTFS write.  The fuse is a paid
service and I would not want to install it on every Apple
I see, even if there is a 14 day trial.  NTFS-3G is supported,
but I can't find a download for MAC for my life.  (They point
you to the paid version.)

I don't have an Apple either. Apple does not allow you to
use a virtual machine of OSx, unless the base system is
Apple hardware (not going to happen).

I am seeing a lot more Apple computers out there since
the advent of Frankenstein and Sons (Windows 8 and Nein,
oops, 10).  I personally find OSx to be excruciatingly weird,
but I need to eat, so I will work on anything folks are willing
to pay for.  (I make a lot of money off M$'s endless quality,
security, and reliability issues.)

I prefer to work on Linux, but most of my customer's are small
business and they need their Windows to run their apps.
I have a few Linux server and workstations out there.
And, my shop is Linux.  (I just don't have the patience to
fight with Windows on my own system after fighting with
it all day on my customer's machines.)

-T


Have you considered SAMBA? With modern gigabit networking that's not a huge 
speed penalty over sneakernet with disks.


{^_^}   Joanne

Re: GPT?

[ToddAndMargo]

On 06/14/2016 01:13 PM, David Sommerseth wrote:

How large?


6 to 8 GB usually  (can't be compressed)

--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~

Re: GPT?

[David Sommerseth]

On 14/06/16 22:14, David Sommerseth wrote:
> On 14/06/16 20:16, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>> On 06/14/2016 03:09 AM, David Sommerseth wrote:
>>> On 14/06/16 00:15, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>>>>> On 6/10/16 2:20 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> [...snip...]
>>
>> I should have said GPT partition with HFS+ format.
>>
>> I am basically looking for a shared format that will
>> accommodate large file transfers.
> 
> How large?
> 
>> And OSx doesn't support NTFS write.  The fuse is a paid
>> service and I would not want to install it on every Apple
>> I see, even if there is a 14 day trial.  NTFS-3G is supported,
>> but I can't find a download for MAC for my life.  (They point
>> you to the paid version.)
> 
> Uhh!?  <https://github.com/osxfuse/osxfuse> ... there's build
> instructions right there.  Shouldn't need to cost a dime.  Unless I'm
> ignoring some other details, but my general impression is that the code
> is available.
> 
>> I don't have an Apple either. Apple does not allow you to
>> use a virtual machine of OSx, unless the base system is
>> Apple hardware (not going to happen).
>>
>> I am seeing a lot more Apple computers out there since
>> the advent of Frankenstein and Sons (Windows 8 and Nein,
>> oops, 10).  I personally find OSx to be excruciatingly weird,
>> but I need to eat, so I will work on anything folks are willing
>> to pay for.  (I make a lot of money off M$'s endless quality,
>> security, and reliability issues.)
>>
>> I prefer to work on Linux, but most of my customer's are small
>> business and they need their Windows to run their apps.
>> I have a few Linux server and workstations out there.
>> And, my shop is Linux.  (I just don't have the patience to
>> fight with Windows on my own system after fighting with
>> it all day on my customer's machines.)
> 
> I don't know if I'm just overlooking something in what you write.  But
> why do you not just reformat the drive with {,ex,v}FAT file system and
> be done with it?  That should be supported out-of-the box on most of the
> OSes you work with.  I generally have had no interoperability issues
> with vfat for many years.
> 
> For FAT32 based file systems (which I believe vfat in Linux classifies
> under), the file size limit is 4GB, IIRC.

Just some more details:

<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11928982/what-is-the-difference-between-vfat-and-fat32-file-systems>

--
kind regards,

David Sommerseth

Re: GPT?

[David Sommerseth]

On 14/06/16 20:16, ToddAndMargo wrote:
> On 06/14/2016 03:09 AM, David Sommerseth wrote:
>> On 14/06/16 00:15, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>>>> On 6/10/16 2:20 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
[...snip...]
> 
> I should have said GPT partition with HFS+ format.
> 
> I am basically looking for a shared format that will
> accommodate large file transfers.

How large?

> And OSx doesn't support NTFS write.  The fuse is a paid
> service and I would not want to install it on every Apple
> I see, even if there is a 14 day trial.  NTFS-3G is supported,
> but I can't find a download for MAC for my life.  (They point
> you to the paid version.)

Uhh!?  <https://github.com/osxfuse/osxfuse> ... there's build
instructions right there.  Shouldn't need to cost a dime.  Unless I'm
ignoring some other details, but my general impression is that the code
is available.

> I don't have an Apple either. Apple does not allow you to
> use a virtual machine of OSx, unless the base system is
> Apple hardware (not going to happen).
> 
> I am seeing a lot more Apple computers out there since
> the advent of Frankenstein and Sons (Windows 8 and Nein,
> oops, 10).  I personally find OSx to be excruciatingly weird,
> but I need to eat, so I will work on anything folks are willing
> to pay for.  (I make a lot of money off M$'s endless quality,
> security, and reliability issues.)
> 
> I prefer to work on Linux, but most of my customer's are small
> business and they need their Windows to run their apps.
> I have a few Linux server and workstations out there.
> And, my shop is Linux.  (I just don't have the patience to
> fight with Windows on my own system after fighting with
> it all day on my customer's machines.)

I don't know if I'm just overlooking something in what you write.  But
why do you not just reformat the drive with {,ex,v}FAT file system and
be done with it?  That should be supported out-of-the box on most of the
OSes you work with.  I generally have had no interoperability issues
with vfat for many years.

For FAT32 based file systems (which I believe vfat in Linux classifies
under), the file size limit is 4GB, IIRC.


--
kind regards,

David Sommerseth

Re: GPT?

[ToddAndMargo]

On 06/14/2016 03:09 AM, David Sommerseth wrote:

On 14/06/16 00:15, ToddAndMargo wrote:

On 6/10/16 2:20 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:

Hi All,

Does anyone know if SL 7.x will read and write to and Apple
OSx's (GPT) formatted flash drives?

I know I can manipulate the partitions with gdisk.

I don't have a MAC kicking around to just look for myself.

Many thanks,
-T


On 06/11/2016 12:12 PM, Joseph Areeda wrote:

Hi Todd,

  • I can give this a try for you I'm a little confused. Pretty sure
the partition tables are fine but I don't think you can use the Apple
file system, Mac OS X extended.

  The  FAT or EX FAT file system are compatible, I use them often.

  Let me know exactly what you want me to try I have a Mac running
Yosemite with an SL 7 VM so it's easy.
  best,
  Joe

Hi Jose,

I was looking for something that would allow for large file
transfer between MAC and Linux.  Apple is too busy poking
M$ in the eye and and complete on who can be the most
proprietary to support write on NTFS


Pardon my ignorance ... but this sounds like a discussion about apples
which doesn't taste like oranges and having a banana shape.

To my knowledge GPT (which the subject and initial mail asks about) is
the new partitioning format supported on EFI based hardware [1].  The
partitioning is about how you "configure" and allocate the available
space on a storage unit.  Partitioning is usually quite ignorant to what
file systems being used.  I have also never heard about GPT file systems
(but I might just be uneducated)

[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table>

FAT, exFAT, VFAT, NTFS, EXT4, XFS, HFS+, etc, etc are file systems [2],
which defines how data are organized on a partition (or directly on a
storage unit without a partition table).

[2] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system>

AFAIK, SL7 supports the GPT partition tables, as well as the old MBR
based formatting scheme [3].

[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record>

To my knowledge, OSX supports at least some of the FAT based file
systems, which is also supported on SL7.  Otherwise, you might have some
luck to get more supported file systems on OSX using "FUSE of OS X" [4].
  (Disclaimer: I don't own any Apple products)

[4] <https://github.com/osxfuse/osxfuse/wiki>


--
kind regards,

David Sommerseth



Hi David,

I should have said GPT partition with HFS+ format.

I am basically looking for a shared format that will
accommodate large file transfers.

And OSx doesn't support NTFS write.  The fuse is a paid
service and I would not want to install it on every Apple
I see, even if there is a 14 day trial.  NTFS-3G is supported,
but I can't find a download for MAC for my life.  (They point
you to the paid version.)

I don't have an Apple either. Apple does not allow you to
use a virtual machine of OSx, unless the base system is
Apple hardware (not going to happen).

I am seeing a lot more Apple computers out there since
the advent of Frankenstein and Sons (Windows 8 and Nein,
oops, 10).  I personally find OSx to be excruciatingly weird,
but I need to eat, so I will work on anything folks are willing
to pay for.  (I make a lot of money off M$'s endless quality,
security, and reliability issues.)

I prefer to work on Linux, but most of my customer's are small
business and they need their Windows to run their apps.
I have a few Linux server and workstations out there.
And, my shop is Linux.  (I just don't have the patience to
fight with Windows on my own system after fighting with
it all day on my customer's machines.)

-T










--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~

Re: GPT?

[David Sommerseth]

On 14/06/16 00:15, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>> On 6/10/16 2:20 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if SL 7.x will read and write to and Apple
>>> OSx's (GPT) formatted flash drives?
>>>
>>> I know I can manipulate the partitions with gdisk.
>>>
>>> I don't have a MAC kicking around to just look for myself.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> -T
>>>
>>
> 
> On 06/11/2016 12:12 PM, Joseph Areeda wrote:
>> Hi Todd,
>>
>>  • I can give this a try for you I'm a little confused. Pretty sure
>> the partition tables are fine but I don't think you can use the Apple
>> file system, Mac OS X extended.
>>
>>  The  FAT or EX FAT file system are compatible, I use them often.
>>
>>  Let me know exactly what you want me to try I have a Mac running
>> Yosemite with an SL 7 VM so it's easy.
>>  best,
>>  Joe
> 
> Hi Jose,
> 
> I was looking for something that would allow for large file
> transfer between MAC and Linux.  Apple is too busy poking
> M$ in the eye and and complete on who can be the most
> proprietary to support write on NTFS
> 

Pardon my ignorance ... but this sounds like a discussion about apples
which doesn't taste like oranges and having a banana shape.

To my knowledge GPT (which the subject and initial mail asks about) is
the new partitioning format supported on EFI based hardware [1].  The
partitioning is about how you "configure" and allocate the available
space on a storage unit.  Partitioning is usually quite ignorant to what
file systems being used.  I have also never heard about GPT file systems
(but I might just be uneducated)

[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table>

FAT, exFAT, VFAT, NTFS, EXT4, XFS, HFS+, etc, etc are file systems [2],
which defines how data are organized on a partition (or directly on a
storage unit without a partition table).

[2] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system>

AFAIK, SL7 supports the GPT partition tables, as well as the old MBR
based formatting scheme [3].

[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record>

To my knowledge, OSX supports at least some of the FAT based file
systems, which is also supported on SL7.  Otherwise, you might have some
luck to get more supported file systems on OSX using "FUSE of OS X" [4].
 (Disclaimer: I don't own any Apple products)

[4] <https://github.com/osxfuse/osxfuse/wiki>


--
kind regards,

David Sommerseth

Re: GPT?

[Lamar Owen]

On 06/11/2016 03:12 PM, Joseph Areeda wrote:

Hi Todd,

 • I can give this a try for you I'm a little confused. Pretty sure 
the partition tables are fine but I don't think you can use the Apple 
file system, Mac OS X extended.


 The  FAT or EX FAT file system are compatible, I use them often.

...

The nutshell version of the solution I separately e-mailed to Todd 
directly (I keep forgetting that the SL lists are 'reply-all' 
lists..) is to enable ELrepo and 'yum install kmod-hfsplus' if you 
want read-only journaled HFS+ or read/write HFS+ (no journal). If your 
HFS+ filesystem has a journal, you need the Paragon HFS/NTFS bundle to 
get read/write, but it has some issues with large transfers on EL7 
(works flawlessly on EL6).

Re: GPT?

[Joseph Areeda]

Hi Todd,

 • I can give this a try for you I'm a little confused. Pretty sure the 
partition tables are fine but I don't think you can use the Apple file 
system, Mac OS X extended.


 The  FAT or EX FAT file system are compatible, I use them often.

 Let me know exactly what you want me to try I have a Mac running 
Yosemite with an SL 7 VM so it's easy.

 best,
 Joe

On 6/10/16 2:20 PM, ToddAndMargo wrote:

Hi All,

Does anyone know if SL 7.x will read and write to and Apple
OSx's (GPT) formatted flash drives?

I know I can manipulate the partitions with gdisk.

I don't have a MAC kicking around to just look for myself.

Many thanks,
-T

GPT?

[ToddAndMargo]

Hi All,

Does anyone know if SL 7.x will read and write to and Apple
OSx's (GPT) formatted flash drives?

I know I can manipulate the partitions with gdisk.

I don't have a MAC kicking around to just look for myself.

Many thanks,
-T

--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~