[scifinoir2] The William Shatner Scene That Never Was

[Tracey de Morsella]

SANTA MONICA, California - This past weekend, $76.5

million worth of people saw Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto and Leonard Nimoy
onscreen in J.J. Abrams' blockbuster
 "Star
Trek" reboot. The one person they didn't see, however, is larger-than-life
"Trek" icon William Shatner. 

During the course of the film's production, a

bizarre battle of words erupted between Abrams and the 78-year-old original
Captain Kirk over a never-filmed, top-secret scene. Recently, we got the
spoiler-heavy details on the very different ending once intended to be Nimoy
and Shatner's final time together onscreen. 

"We did write a Shatner scene," Roberto Orci, one of the film's writers and
producers, explained. "And we were ultimately split internally. We didn't
want it to be a gimmick; we wanted to really bring him back in the right
way." 

If you've seen the new "Trek," you know that Nimoy portrays the original
Spock in a series of scenes that has the character traveling to an alternate
dimension and making contact with younger versions of the Enterprise crew.
In one heart-tugging moment, "old" Spock addresses "young" Spock and
explains their eventual friendship with Kirk; in the Shatner version,
however, young Spock was to be more skeptical. 

"Elder Spock tells young Spock, 'I couldn't tell you the truth about what's
happening, because if I had, I would have robbed you of the benefit of
realizing the greatness that you and Kirk will achieve together - and the
amazing friendship that you'll have. You had to discover that for yourself,
and I couldn't get in the way of that,' " Orci's writing partner, Alex
Kurtzman, revealed. "And in our original version, younger Spock says, 'I'm
still not sold.' 

"Elder Spock said, 'Well, don't take my word for it,' and he handed him a
little disc - a DVD, really - that projected a hologram, and then he walked
away. And the hologram was of Kirk," Kurtzman continued. "It would've been
Shatner." 

The scene was an attempt by the writers to adhere to "Trek" canon - which
depicted Shatner's Kirk as being killed in 1994's "Star Trek: Generations" -
yet still give him a presence in the film via a final recording he had taped
before his death. 

"If you follow 'The Next Generation' [TV show], elder Spock went off to
Romulus to be an ambassador in two episodes called 'Unification 1' and '2'
 , and [our] idea was that it was a long, long mission, and Kirk would
have died by the time he returned to Earth [because they] just wouldn't have
the same lifespan," Kurtzman explained of the Vulcan. "And so [this DVD] was
essentially Kirk sending Spock a goodbye." 

"His final message," Orci interrupted. 

"It was a 'happy birthday' message [with Kirk saying], 'This is the last
time I'm going to be able to wish you happy birthday, so I want to tell you
how much you've meant to me and how amazing it was that we had all these
adventures together,' " Kurtzman said of the alternate ending, which would
have provided the last act with a powerful voice over the film's final
scenes. 

"That narrative, that voice-over," Kurtzman said, "became a link [to be
heard] over [scenes of] this new crew coming in ... a young Kirk accepting
the medal and becoming captain of the Enterprise." 

"The entire ending of the movie, where you're seeing young Kirk being
promoted," Orci added, "all that was going to be [played out with Shatner's]
voice-over." 

Ultimately, the Shatner ending of "Star Trek" was abandoned for a whole
variety of reasons. "Whereas our elder Spock had a very organic reason to be
there, we didn't have that same benefit with Kirk," Kurtzman explained.
"Because Kirk died in the movies - he died in canon - it was very hard to
come up with a way to bring him back in the movie that didn't feel
contrived." 

"Ultimately, we decided internally that we were split," Orci remembered of
the decision to abandon the Shatner ending. "The decision was that it wasn't
quite enough to justify wasting his time." 

Still, it's pretty obvious where Orci fell in the internal debate. "It was a
nice voice-over. It was more than a scene," he explained. "I think it could
have worked, personally." 

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/166/story.jhtmlv

[RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

[Martin Baxter]

Looks like a somewhat sound analysis. One problem that the author fails to take 
into account, though.

The Romulan ship is from the future. Its tech, ergo, is going to be 
head-and-shoulders above anything Starfleet can throw at it (unless the 
timeline alteration also handed them a massive upgrade int hat department, that 
is). It would probably take a concerted effort by everything 'Fleet had to 
throw at it. It's the only way they were able to stave off the Borg, the 
Dominion and the Breen until they were able to gain a technological advantage.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : [scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

 Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 21:58:17 -0700

 From : "Mr. Worf" 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


This is a pretty interesting look at the movie. What do you think?

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/05/star-trek-a-military-analysis/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

[Martin Baxter]

To everyone who's been trying to lure me into see this -- *that's* the bait. 
Even though McCoy never uttered that line, I still quote it when apropos in 
real life. I just night have to go, just for that thrill.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

 Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 19:31:00 -0400

 From : Justin Mohareb 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself.

Justin

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter  wrote:
> That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from people 
> who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. One guy I 
> know even called it "channeling DeForrest Kelley".
>
> Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line?
>
>
>
>
>
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>
>  Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
>
>  Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 -
>
>  From : "B. Smith" 
>
>  To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really 
> enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it 
> delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the 
> end the movie.
>
> I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the 
> exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for 
> me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was 
> hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked Zachary 
> Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a lot with 
> her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered timeline.
>
> One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That got 
> a huge audience reaction.
>
> The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise 
> in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy.
>
> One plot point I loved was that:
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> E
> R
> S
>
> B
> E
> L
> O
> W
>
> Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt 
> Spock for the destruction of Romulus.
>
> And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the 
> end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that.
>
> I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they knocked 
> out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again.
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "ravenadal"  wrote:
>>
>> Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the 
>> "old school" Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you 
>> have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train!
>>
>> (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I 
>> might be interested in!)
>>
>> ~rave!
>>
>> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Baxter"  wrote:
>> >
>> > Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, 
>> > wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union 
>> > in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>> >
>> Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
>> >
>> Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700
>> >
>> From : "Tracey de Morsella"
>> >
>> To :
>> >
>> >
>> C’mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On 
>> > Behalf Of Martin Baxter
>> > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM
>> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In 
>> > recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to 
>> > see, almost all of which turned out to be crap.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>> > Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
>> > Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
>> > From : Augustus Augustus
>> > To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > Martin,
>> >
>> > Tracey and Bosco are correct. Just go and see it and enjoy it for what 
>> > it's worth. my wife and i saw it last night, and we both liked it, and 
>> > trust me. when i saw she liked a sci-fi movie, that is a feat!
>> >
>> > Fate.
>> >
>> > --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Tracey de Morsella wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Tracey de Morsella
>> > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
>> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>> > Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 2:48 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Martin:
>> >
>> > Why can’t you see it absorb it, enjoy it if possible and then
>> > come home and

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

[Augustus Augustus]

Martin, 
 
when u going?  i need 2 see it again, so i will tag along with u.
 
Fate.

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter  wrote:


From: Martin Baxter 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:01 AM












To everyone who's been trying to lure me into see this -- *that's* the bait. 
Even though McCoy never uttered that line, I still quote it when apropos in 
real life. I just night have to go, just for that thrill.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--
Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 19:31:00 -0400
>From : Justin Mohareb 
To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com

I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself. 

Justin 

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 
> That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from people 
> who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. One guy I 
> know even called it "channeling DeForrest Kelley". 
> 
> Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
> 
>  Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
> 
>  Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 - 
> 
>  From : "B. Smith" 
> 
>  To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
> 
> Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really 
> enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it 
> delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the 
> end the movie. 
> 
> I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the 
> exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for 
> me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was 
> hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked Zachary 
> Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a lot with 
> her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered timeline. 
> 
> One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That got 
> a huge audience reaction. 
> 
> The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise 
> in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy. 
> 
> One plot point I loved was that: 
> 
> S 
> P 
> O 
> I 
> E 
> R 
> S 
> 
> B 
> E 
> L 
> O 
> W 
> 
> Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt 
> Spock for the destruction of Romulus. 
> 
> And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the 
> end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that. 
> 
> I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they knocked 
> out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again. 
> 
> --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, "ravenadal"  wrote: 
>> 
>> Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the 
>> "old school" Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you 
>> have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! 
>> 
>> (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I 
>> might be interested in!) 
>> 
>> ~rave! 
>> 
>> --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, "Martin Baxter"  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, 
>> > wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union 
>> > in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
>> > 
>> Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
>> > 
>> Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 
>> > 
>> From : "Tracey de Morsella" 
>> > 
>> To : 
>> > 
>> > 
>> C’mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On 
>> > Behalf Of Martin Baxter 
>> > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM 
>> > To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 
>> > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In 
>> > recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to 
>> > see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
>> > Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
>> > Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) 
>> > From : Augustus Augustus 
>> > To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 
>> > 
>> > Martin, 
>> > 
>> > Tracey and Bosco are correct. Just go and see it and enjoy it for what 
>> > it's worth. my wife and i saw it last night, and we both liked it, and 
>> > trust me. when i saw she liked a sci-fi movie, that is a feat! 
>> > 
>> > Fate. 
>> > 
>> > --- On Sun, 5/10/09, Tracey de Morsella w

[RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

[B. Smith]

Martin,
Please do yourself a favor and check it out. There are tons of nods to the 
various Trek movies and series. Abrams wasn't a Trekkie but the screenwriters 
were. There are so many Easter eggs in the movie you can miss them all the 
first time around.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Augustus Augustus  wrote:
>
> Martin, 
>  
> when u going?  i need 2 see it again, so i will tag along with u.
>  
> Fate.
> 
> --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Martin Baxter 
> Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:01 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To everyone who's been trying to lure me into see this -- *that's* the bait. 
> Even though McCoy never uttered that line, I still quote it when apropos in 
> real life. I just night have to go, just for that thrill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
> Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
> Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 19:31:00 -0400
> From : Justin Mohareb 
> To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
> 
> I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself. 
> 
> Justin 
> 
> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 
> > That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from 
> > people who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. 
> > One guy I know even called it "channeling DeForrest Kelley". 
> > 
> > Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
> > 
> >  Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
> > 
> >  Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 - 
> > 
> >  From : "B. Smith" 
> > 
> >  To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 
> > 
> > 
> > Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really 
> > enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it 
> > delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the 
> > end the movie. 
> > 
> > I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the 
> > exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for 
> > me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was 
> > hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked 
> > Zachary Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a 
> > lot with her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered 
> > timeline. 
> > 
> > One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That 
> > got a huge audience reaction. 
> > 
> > The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise 
> > in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy. 
> > 
> > One plot point I loved was that: 
> > 
> > S 
> > P 
> > O 
> > I 
> > E 
> > R 
> > S 
> > 
> > B 
> > E 
> > L 
> > O 
> > W 
> > 
> > Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt 
> > Spock for the destruction of Romulus. 
> > 
> > And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the 
> > end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that. 
> > 
> > I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they 
> > knocked out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again. 
> > 
> > --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, "ravenadal"  wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the 
> >> "old school" Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you 
> >> have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! 
> >> 
> >> (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something 
> >> I might be interested in!) 
> >> 
> >> ~rave! 
> >> 
> >> --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, "Martin Baxter"  wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, 
> >> > wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle 
> >> > Union in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
> >> > 
> >> Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
> >> > 
> >> Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 
> >> > 
> >> From : "Tracey de Morsella" 
> >> > 
> >> To : 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> C’mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] 
> >> > On Behalf Of Martin Baxter 
> >> > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM 
> >> > To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 
> >> > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. 
> >> > In recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies 

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

[B. Smith]

In the prequel comic series Countdown it was explained that the ship was 
upgraded using Borg tech. The Romulans found a Borg cube with no living drones 
and managed to reverse engineer some of their tech including some of the 
weaponry and the adaptive ability of the Borg ships. 

That would go a long way in explaining why its weaponry went through TOS era 
shielding as if it didn't exist.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Baxter"  wrote:
>
> Looks like a somewhat sound analysis. One problem that the author fails to 
> take into account, though.
> 
> The Romulan ship is from the future. Its tech, ergo, is going to be 
> head-and-shoulders above anything Starfleet can throw at it (unless the 
> timeline alteration also handed them a massive upgrade int hat department, 
> that is). It would probably take a concerted effort by everything 'Fleet had 
> to throw at it. It's the only way they were able to stave off the Borg, the 
> Dominion and the Breen until they were able to gain a technological advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
-[ Received Mail Content ]--
> 
 Subject : [scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
> 
 Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 21:58:17 -0700
> 
 From : "Mr. Worf" 
> 
 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
This is a pretty interesting look at the movie. What do you think?
> 
> http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/05/star-trek-a-military-analysis/
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds
>

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

[Augustus Augustus]

but Martin, i give the author credit on some of his points.  the rumsfeld 
comment and the dhs were priceless!
 
Fate.

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter  wrote:


From: Martin Baxter 
Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 7:56 AM












Looks like a somewhat sound analysis. One problem that the author fails to take 
into account, though.

The Romulan ship is from the future. Its tech, ergo, is going to be 
head-and-shoulders above anything Starfleet can throw at it (unless the 
timeline alteration also handed them a massive upgrade int hat department, that 
is). It would probably take a concerted effort by everything 'Fleet had to 
throw at it. It's the only way they were able to stave off the Borg, the 
Dominion and the Breen until they were able to gain a technological advantage.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--
Subject : [scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 21:58:17 -0700
>From : "Mr. Worf" 
To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com

This is a pretty interesting look at the movie. What do you think? 

http://www.wired. com/dangerroom/ 2009/05/star- trek-a-military- analysis/ 



http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds 















  

Re: [scifinoir2] The William Shatner Scene That Never Was

[Augustus Augustus]

Tracey,
 
coming from me, and just me.  this would have been a killer ending!  i would 
have given a vital organ 4 this.  now, i think they missed the boat on this 
one.  they should have made this work.  but again, it's just my opinion.
 
Fate.


--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Tracey de Morsella  
wrote:


From: Tracey de Morsella 
Subject: [scifinoir2] The William Shatner Scene That Never Was
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, cinque3...@verizon.net, "'Jeffrey Ballou'" 
, ggs...@yahoo.com, "'Sincere'" 
, "'Curtis, Jr.'" 
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 3:04 AM










SANTA MONICA, California — This past weekend, $76.5 million worth of people saw 
Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto and Leonard Nimoy onscreen in J.J. Abrams' 
blockbuster "Star Trek" reboot. The one person they didn't see, however, is 
larger-than- life "Trek" icon William Shatner. 
During the course of the film's production, a bizarre battle of words erupted 
between Abrams and the 78-year-old original Captain Kirk over a never-filmed, 
top-secret scene. Recently, we got the spoiler-heavy details on the very 
different ending once intended to be Nimoy and Shatner's final time together 
onscreen. 
"We did write a Shatner scene," Roberto Orci, one of the film's writers and 
producers, explained. "And we were ultimately split internally. We didn't want 
it to be a gimmick; we wanted to really bring him back in the right way." 
If you've seen the new "Trek," you know that Nimoy portrays the original Spock 
in a series of scenes that has the character traveling to an alternate 
dimension and making contact with younger versions of the Enterprise crew. In 
one heart-tugging moment, "old" Spock addresses "young" Spock and explains 
their eventual friendship with Kirk; in the Shatner version, however, young 
Spock was to be more skeptical. 
"Elder Spock tells young Spock, 'I couldn't tell you the truth about what's 
happening, because if I had, I would have robbed you of the benefit of 
realizing the greatness that you and Kirk will achieve together — and the 
amazing friendship that you'll have. You had to discover that for yourself, and 
I couldn't get in the way of that,' " Orci's writing partner, Alex Kurtzman, 
revealed. "And in our original version, younger Spock says, 'I'm still not 
sold.' 
"Elder Spock said, 'Well, don't take my word for it,' and he handed him a 
little disc — a DVD, really — that projected a hologram, and then he walked 
away. And the hologram was of Kirk," Kurtzman continued. "It would've been 
Shatner." 
The scene was an attempt by the writers to adhere to "Trek" canon — which 
depicted Shatner's Kirk as being killed in 1994's "Star Trek: Generations" — 
yet still give him a presence in the film via a final recording he had taped 
before his death. 
"If you follow 'The Next Generation' [TV show], elder Spock went off to Romulus 
to be an ambassador in two episodes called 'Unification 1' and '2', and [our] 
idea was that it was a long, long mission, and Kirk would have died by the time 
he returned to Earth [because they] just wouldn't have the same lifespan," 
Kurtzman explained of the Vulcan. "And so [this DVD] was essentially Kirk 
sending Spock a goodbye." 
"His final message," Orci interrupted. 
"It was a 'happy birthday' message [with Kirk saying], 'This is the last time 
I'm going to be able to wish you happy birthday, so I want to tell you how much 
you've meant to me and how amazing it was that we had all these adventures 
together,' " Kurtzman said of the alternate ending, which would have provided 
the last act with a powerful voice over the film's final scenes. 
"That narrative, that voice-over," Kurtzman said, "became a link [to be heard] 
over [scenes of] this new crew coming in ... a young Kirk accepting the medal 
and becoming captain of the Enterprise." 
"The entire ending of the movie, where you're seeing young Kirk being 
promoted," Orci added, "all that was going to be [played out with Shatner's] 
voice-over." 
Ultimately, the Shatner ending of "Star Trek" was abandoned for a whole variety 
of reasons. "Whereas our elder Spock had a very organic reason to be there, we 
didn't have that same benefit with Kirk," Kurtzman explained. "Because Kirk 
died in the movies — he died in canon — it was very hard to come up with a way 
to bring him back in the movie that didn't feel contrived." 
"Ultimately, we decided internally that we were split," Orci remembered of the 
decision to abandon the Shatner ending. "The decision was that it wasn't quite 
enough to justify wasting his time." 
Still, it's pretty obvious where Orci fell in the internal debate. "It was a 
nice voice-over. It was more than a scene," he explained. "I think it could 
have worked, personally." 
http://www.mtv. com/movies/ news/articles/ 166/story. jhtmlv















  

Re: [scifinoir2] The William Shatner Scene That Never Was

[Adrianne Brennan]

Ww. I really think that would've been perfect, and would've cemented the
continuity very nicely.
A shame they didn't do it!!

~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
http://www.adriannebrennan.com
Experience the magic of Blood of the Dark Moon:
http://www.adriannebrennan.com/botdm.html
Take a bite out of Blood and Mint Chocolates:
http://www.adriannebrennan.com/bamc.html
Dare to take The Oath in this fantasy series:
http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath


On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:04 AM, Tracey de Morsella <
tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com> wrote:

>
>
>  *SANTA MONICA, California* — This past weekend, $76.5 million worth of
> peoplesaw
>  Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto and Leonard Nimoy onscreen in J.J. Abrams'
> blockbuster "Star Trek" 
> reboot.
> The one person they didn't see, however, is larger-than-life "Trek" icon
> William Shatner.
>
> During the course of the film's production, a bizarre battle of words
> eruptedbetween
>  Abrams and the 78-year-old original Captain Kirk over a
> never-filmed, top-secret scene. Recently, we got the spoiler-heavy details
> on the very different ending once intended to be Nimoy and Shatner's final
> time together onscreen.
>
> "We did write a Shatner scene," Roberto Orci, one of the film's writers and
> producers, explained. "And we were ultimately split internally. We didn't
> want it to be a gimmick; we wanted to really bring him back in the right
> way."
>
> If you've seen the new "Trek," you know that Nimoy portrays the original
> Spock in a series of scenes that has the character traveling to an alternate
> dimension and making contact with younger versions of the Enterprise crew.
> In one heart-tugging moment, "old" Spock addresses "young" Spock and
> explains their eventual friendship with Kirk; in the Shatner version,
> however, young Spock was to be more skeptical.
>
> "Elder Spock tells young Spock, 'I couldn't tell you the truth about what's
> happening, because if I had, I would have robbed you of the benefit of
> realizing the greatness that you and Kirk will achieve together — and the
> amazing friendship that you'll have. You had to discover that for yourself,
> and I couldn't get in the way of that,' " Orci's writing partner, Alex
> Kurtzman, revealed. "And in our original version, younger Spock says, 'I'm
> still not sold.'
>
> "Elder Spock said, 'Well, don't take my word for it,' and he handed him a
> little disc — a DVD, really — that projected a hologram, and then he walked
> away. And the hologram was of Kirk," Kurtzman continued. "It would've been
> Shatner."
>
> The scene was an attempt by the writers to adhere to "Trek" canon — which
> depicted Shatner's Kirk as being killed in 1994's "Star Trek: Generations" —
> yet still give him a presence in the film via a final recording he had taped
> before his death.
>
> "If you follow 'The Next Generation' [TV show], elder Spock went off to
> Romulus to be an ambassador in two episodes called 'Unification 1' and 
> '2',
> and [our] idea was that it was a long, long mission, and Kirk would have
> died by the time he returned to Earth [because they] just wouldn't have the
> same lifespan," Kurtzman explained of the Vulcan. "And so [this DVD] was
> essentially Kirk sending Spock a goodbye."
>
> "His final message," Orci interrupted.
>
> "It was a 'happy birthday' message [with Kirk saying], 'This is the last
> time I'm going to be able to wish you happy birthday, so I want to tell you
> how much you've meant to me and how amazing it was that we had all these
> adventures together,' " Kurtzman said of the alternate ending, which would
> have provided the last act with a powerful voice over the film's final
> scenes.
>
> "That narrative, that voice-over," Kurtzman said, "became a link [to be
> heard] over [scenes of] this new crew coming in ... a young Kirk accepting
> the medal and becoming captain of the Enterprise."
>
> "The entire ending of the movie, where you're seeing young Kirk being
> promoted," Orci added, "all that was going to be [played out with Shatner's]
> voice-over."
>
> Ultimately, the Shatner ending of "Star Trek" was abandoned for a whole
> variety of reasons. "Whereas our elder Spock had a very organic reason to be
> there, we didn't have that same benefit with Kirk," Kurtzman explained.
> "Because Kirk died in the movies — he died in canon — it was very hard to
> come up with a way to bring him back in the movie that didn't feel
> contrived."
>
> "Ultimately, we decided internally that we were split," Orci remembered of
> the decision to abandon the Shatner ending. "The decision was that it wasn't
> quite enough to justify wasting his time."
>
> Still, it's pretty obvious where Orci fell in 

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

[B. Smith]

I know the article was tongue in cheek but a some of his facts were off. The 
Kelvin and Enterprise both used their phaser banks as point defense weapons but 
they were overwhelmed by what the Narada was firing at them. 

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Augustus Augustus  wrote:
>
> but Martin, i give the author credit on some of his points.  the rumsfeld 
> comment and the dhs were priceless!
>  
> Fate.
> 
> --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Martin Baxter 
> Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 7:56 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a somewhat sound analysis. One problem that the author fails to 
> take into account, though.
> 
> The Romulan ship is from the future. Its tech, ergo, is going to be 
> head-and-shoulders above anything Starfleet can throw at it (unless the 
> timeline alteration also handed them a massive upgrade int hat department, 
> that is). It would probably take a concerted effort by everything 'Fleet had 
> to throw at it. It's the only way they were able to stave off the Borg, the 
> Dominion and the Breen until they were able to gain a technological advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
> Subject : [scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
> Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 21:58:17 -0700
> From : "Mr. Worf" 
> To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
> 
> This is a pretty interesting look at the movie. What do you think? 
> 
> http://www.wired. com/dangerroom/ 2009/05/star- trek-a-military- analysis/ 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
>

[scifinoir2] Can't fix stupid

[Augustus Augustus]

 
 
 




Very FUNNY


 


 

 





 




 





 




 

 

 









































Can't fix stupid is right... unless you have a spatula!











 



















 It took me a second, but make sure you read the story under the picture. Keep in mind this actually did happen.  This is someone who was moving from an insurance claims office.   Okay so this is how I imagine this conversation went: Wal-Mart Employee:   'Hello 'dis be WalMarts, how can I help you?' Customer: ' I would like to order a cake for a going away party this week.' Wal-Mart Employee:  'Whats you want on da cake?' Customer:  'Best Wishes Suzanne ' and underneath that










   'We will miss you'.  STOP LAUGHING!...You can't fix stupid








 

 

 





 





-- Sue
 

-- Scott Lewis }:>
 
 

  

[scifinoir2] Hulu strained by success

[ravenadal]

www.mcall.com/business/local/all-hulu0512,0,3681505.story

themorningcall.com

Hulu strained by success

Site's owners pull back on some programming amid growing tensions with cable, 
satellite firms

By Dawn C. Chmielewski and Meg James

Tribune Newspapers

May 12, 2009

Online video site Hulu trumpeted its ascension to the media big time a few 
months back with a dash of sardonic humor. In its debut TV commercial, in which 
Alec Baldwin mocks the audience's addiction to the very shows he creates as a 
fictional network executive, the site calls itself "an evil plot to destroy the 
world."

The joke is uneasily close to the truth for some in the television business.

Once dismissed as "Clown Co." by Silicon Valley critics who scoffed that old 
media giants could ever harness the Internet, the site with the name that 
sounds like a Hawaiian dance has upset the status quo. Hulu's traction with 
users has entertainment mainstays worried that its runaway success could hurt 
the financial underpinnings of the industry. In the end, viewers' free ride on 
Hulu for cable shows may be at an end.

NBC Universal and News Corp. launched Hulu a little more than a year ago as a 
gamble on TV's digital future. The Web site allows viewers to watch episodes of 
TV shows for free, from current hits such as "Family Guy" and "The Office" to 
old favorites, including "WKRP in Cincinnati" and "I Dream of Jeannie." Hulu's 
simple design, expansive catalog and no cover charge has elevated it to one of 
the most popular video sites.

With almost 42 million viewers in March, an audience nearly twice the size of 
TV's most popular show, Fox's " American Idol," Hulu whizzed past Yahoo and 
Microsoft's MSN and is nipping at the heels of Google's YouTube.

"Hulu has certainly exceeded all of our expectations," said Jean-Briac 
Perrette, NBC Universal's president of digital distribution. "We've come a long 
way from Clown Co."

Late last month, Walt Disney Co. overcame its initial skepticism to sign on as 
one of Hulu's owners. The alliance gives the video site even more star power 
with the addition of ABC's "Desperate Housewives" and "Lost" and cable hits 
such as ABC Family's "The Secret Life of the American Teenager" and Disney 
Channel's "Wizards of Waverly Place."

"Our feeling is that, and some of this is instinct, by the way, media 
consumption online is growing and will continue to grow," Disney Chief 
Executive Robert Iger said in a call last week with analysts who grilled him 
about Hulu.

But in making a bid for the next generation of Internet-attuned viewers, Hulu's 
owners have strained their lucrative relationships with cable and satellite 
operators. Companies such as Time Warner Cable and DirecTV pay cable networks 
billions of dollars each year to carry programming, money that supports the 
enormous cost of producing TV shows. The operators, believing they should have 
exclusivity for footing the programming bill, have been pushing back against 
online giveaways.

Investors also are wary that the media companies' embrace of the Internet's 
content-should-be-free philosophy threatens a big profit center: cable 
programming.

"If you give away your premium content for free, you are basically hastening 
your own demise, signing your own death warrant," said Laura Martin, a media 
analyst with Soleil-Media Metrics. "There is a choice that companies have to 
make."

Hulu illustrates the quandary media executives face as they weigh the potential 
of the Internet against their dependable businesses. If the TV industry does 
not find a way to preserve its two pillars of revenue -- advertising and 
subscription fees -- the consequences could be dire.

Analysts point to the rapid deterioration of newspapers, which traded print 
subscribers for the expectation of big bucks from online advertising that have 
not materialized.

The conflict has forced Hulu to make concessions. In recent months, seasons of 
"It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" disappeared from the site, along with 
episodes of other cable TV shows such as "In Plain Sight" and "Psych." The site 
even blocked access to a technology that let Hulu users watch shows on their 
TVs.

The move provoked outrage among fans of the software called Boxee, which 
received 385 angry comments on its site.

Hulu's pullback in the case of "Always Sunny," one of the site's early 
favorites, underscores the tug of war within established media companies over 
the wisdom of placing TV shows on the Internet for free.

The quirky sitcom about a group of slackers has become a signature of the FX 
cable channel. (FX is a division of Fox, whose parent company, News Corp., is 
one of Hulu's founding partners.) Even as FX acknowledged Hulu brought new 
viewers, the network demanded that the video site drop three seasons from its 
free online offerings over fears it would undercut the show's ratings and 
hamper lucrative DVD sales.

"We are not going to take steps that ignore the needs of our pa

[scifinoir2] 140 characters? 'Nuff said

[ravenadal]

I am fond of Twitter, although I don't use it to post the mundane happenings of 
my day.  I enjoy doing social commentary and melting down my thoughts to 140 
characters or less.  Such as: Supporters of Rush Limbaugh are mad at Wanda 
Sykes. Ain't that just like the pot calling the kettle fat?

~rave!

http://twitter.com/ravenadal
http://blackplush.blogspot.com

www.mcall.com/business/local/all-texting0512,0,1858050.story

themorningcall.com
140 characters? 'Nuff said
By Mark Milian

Tribune Newspapers

May 12, 2009

To understand how the wizards of Twitter settled on 140 as the magic number of 
characters in a single tweet, you have to go back two decades to Bonn, Germany.

One day in 1985, Friedhelm Hillebrand sat at the typewriter in his home there, 
tapping out random sentences and questions on a sheet of paper.

As he went along, the communications researcher counted the number of letters, 
numbers, punctuation marks and spaces on the page. The blurbs nearly always 
clocked in under 160 characters.

"This is perfectly sufficient," he recalled thinking. "Perfectly sufficient."

Hillebrand and a dozen others had been developing plans to standardize a 
technology that would allow cellphones to transmit and display text messages.

Because of the tight bandwidth constraints of the wireless networks at the time 
-- they were used mostly for car phones -- each message would have to be as 
short as possible.

Before his typewriter experiment, Hillebrand argued with a friend about whether 
160 characters provided enough space to communicate most thoughts. "My friend 
said this was impossible for the mass market," Hillebrand said. "I was more 
optimistic."

His optimism was warranted. Americans last year started sending more texts than 
they made cellphone calls, according to a report from research firm Nielsen 
Mobile.

It's been a boon for telecoms. Giants Verizon Wireless and AT&T Inc. each 
charge 20 to 25 cents a message, or $20 a month for unlimited texts.

Just 10 years ago, however, there were none. Verizon Wireless adopted the 
technology in the early part of this decade as a way to deliver daily news and 
weather forecasts to cellphone users.

Later, mobile-to-mobile communication took footing in America, but even then, 
users could communicate only with people on the same carrier. "It really 
hindered the growth," Verizon spokesman John Johnson said.

But adoption skyrocketed when telecoms pushed CTIA -- the Wireless Assn., an 
industry trade group, to set American standards for interoperability and short 
codes (the five-digit numbers used in text-in voting systems like those on 
"American Idol"), Johnson said.

Twitter, the fastest-growing online social network, which is being adopted 
practically en masse by politicians, celebrities and news outlets, has its very 
DNA in text messaging.

To avoid the need for splitting text messages into multiple parts, the creators 
of Twitter capped the length of a tweet at 140 characters. They reserved the 
extra 20 for the user's unique address.

In 1985, of course, the thirty-something guys who invented Twitter were 
probably still playing with Matchbox cars.

Hillebrand's unscientific investigations at his typewriter gave him new 
confidence in the ability of 160 characters to be useful while not tying up too 
much space on the carriers' networks. And he was in position to push the 
format; he was serving as chairman of the non-voice services committee within 
the Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM), a group that sets standards 
for the majority of the global mobile market.

All cellular carriers and mobile phones must support the short message service 
(SMS), the group decreed in 1986.

The group included Matti Makkonen, who is sometimes credited as the "inventor 
of text messaging" because of an oft-translated Finnish newspaper article in 
2002. Makkonen now refuses to accept that title, saying in an e-mail that the 
development of texting was a group effort among GSM members.

Looking for a data pipeline that would fit these micro-messages, researchers 
working within a subgroup of Hillebrand's committee came up with the idea of 
harnessing a secondary radio channel that already existed on mobile networks.

This smaller data lane had been used only to alert a cellphone about reception 
strength and to supply it with bits of information regarding incoming calls. 
Voice communication itself had taken place via a separate signal.

"We were looking to a cheap implementation," Hillebrand said in a phone 
interview from Bonn. "Most of the time, nothing happens on this control link. 
So, it was free capacity on the system."

Initially, the subgroup, headed by Finn Trosby, could fit only 128 characters 
into that space, but that didn't seem like nearly enough. With a little 
tweaking and a decision to cut down the set of possible letters, numbers and 
symbols that the system could represent, they found room for an additional 32.

The next step was to en

[scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Keith Johnson]

I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that past Trek 
movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun story (violation of the 
Prime and Temporal Directives to give the secret of transparent aluminum for 
one). But still, there are a lot of points in the movie that bothered me. Some 
show lack of Trek knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy 
writing. Off the top of my head... 


* Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and destroy the 
Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years preparing Romulus for the 
future catastrophe?! He takes years to soup up his ship, evidently sits on his 
bridge muttering "Spock must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and 
plots to destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them of 
what was coming? With his technology and computer records, they'd have to 
believe him, and he'd have decades to save the planet--including his wife! 

* Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the anomaly as 
Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first appeared, yet he 
recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, and Pike himself didn't make 
the connection? And you're telling me an event of that magnitude isn't in all 
ships' database so that the computers would have made the connection and warned 
the ships? 

* I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too emotional. 
Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* Kirk onto a hostile ice 
planet where he very nearly gets eaten by monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have 
been traced back to Spock. And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, 
or even thrown in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock has trouble 
controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing! 

* Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and not even in 
good standing at that. He has one mission where he basically avoids getting 
killed, and they give him what was the flagship of the Federation? Even fast 
risers like Picard, original Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took 
years to make captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of 
logic as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real deep 
space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to pilot the ship. 
WTF??? 

* I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First Officer. Spock 
was originally portrayed as supremely confident, maybe even arrogant. So he has 
one breakdown, freaks out, and comes back saying "Can I play with you?" If 
they're handing out ships to people with no experience, surely Spock--who at 
least had functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his 
own! 

* WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight Nero? They 
said several times it was in another system (name escapes me), and somehow 
we're to believe it couldn't come help the Enterprise? 

* This is an ongoing problem in Trek, but it's worse here: the speed of travel. 
How the heck close does Abrams think Vulcan is to Earth? From what I could 
tell, they zipped there from Earth in under an hour. Then they later zipped 
back to Earth in what appears even better time. Yet Chekhov said more than once 
"If we can just get up to Warp 4" Back then, the warp number was cubed to 
determine absolute velocity, meaning they were trying to get to around 64c. At 
that speed, it'd take nearly a week to get to Alpha Centauri, nevermind trying 
to reach Vulcan, which in (old) canon was 16 light years from Earth. What: did 
Nero's arrival push Vulcan into our solar system? Did it somehow improve warp 
drive? 

* Do they not have subspace communications at warp, or was Nero jamming the 
fleet's communications? I couldn't figure out why no one sent an alert message 
to Enterprise as it was in route to investigate what was at first thought to be 
an anomaly. 

* Where is that planet "Delta Vega" Kirk and old Spock were stranded on? Spock 
was able to look up in the sky and clearly see Vulcan destroyed, without a 
telescope. I'm assuming therefore they were on Vulcan's sister planet. But that 
planet is named T'Khut, which forms a binary planetary system with it. (some 
accounts say it's Vulcan's moon, but Spock himself once said "Vulcan has no 
moon"). I thought T'Khut was more of a hot, lava-covered planet, not an ice 
planet. 

* And isn't "Delta Vega" the name of the diluthium mining planet where Kirk 
abandoned Gary Mitchell in the OS ep "Where No Man Has Gone Before"? What's up 
with that? 

* Does Nero use insta-holes that close up after doing their job? 'Cause I'm 
trying to understand why a singularity powerful enough to swallow up Vulcan in 
mere moments didn't pull that ice planet in as well. That close there's no way 
the gravity wouldn't have been strong enough for that to

[RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Martin Baxter]

Reas ipse loquitor...





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! 
(Spoilers!)

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC)

 From : Keith Johnson 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com



I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that past Trek 
movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun story (violation of the 
Prime and Temporal Directives to give the secret of transparent aluminum for 
one). But still, there are a lot of points in the movie that bothered me. Some 
show lack of Trek knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy 
writing. Off the top of my head... 


* Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and destroy the 
Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years preparing Romulus for the 
future catastrophe?! He takes years to soup up his ship, evidently sits on his 
bridge muttering "Spock must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and 
plots to destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them of 
what was coming? With his technology and computer records, they'd have to 
believe him, and he'd have decades to save the planet--including his wife! 

* Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the anomaly as 
Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first appeared, yet he 
recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, and Pike himself didn't make 
the connection? And you're telling me an event of that magnitude isn't in all 
ships' database so that the computers would have made the connection and warned 
the ships? 

* I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too emotional. 
Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* Kirk onto a hostile ice 
planet where he very nearly gets eaten by monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have 
been traced back to Spock. And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, 
or even thrown in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock has trouble 
controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing! 

* Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and not even in 
good standing at that. He has one mission where he basically avoids getting 
killed, and they give him what was the flagship of the Federation? Even fast 
risers like Picard, original Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took 
years to make captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of 
logic as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real deep 
space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to pilot the ship. 
WTF??? 

* I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First Officer. Spock 
was originally portrayed as supremely confident, maybe even arrogant. So he has 
one breakdown, freaks out, and comes back saying "Can I play with you?" If 
they're handing out ships to people with no experience, surely Spock--who at 
least had functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his 
own! 

* WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight Nero? They 
said several times it was in another system (name escapes me), and somehow 
we're to believe it couldn't come help the Enterprise? 

* This is an ongoing problem in Trek, but it's worse here: the speed of travel. 
How the heck close does Abrams think Vulcan is to Earth? From what I could 
tell, they zipped there from Earth in under an hour. Then they later zipped 
back to Earth in what appears even better time. Yet Chekhov said more than once 
"If we can just get up to Warp 4" Back then, the warp number was cubed to 
determine absolute velocity, meaning they were trying to get to around 64c. At 
that speed, it'd take nearly a week to get to Alpha Centauri, nevermind trying 
to reach Vulcan, which in (old) canon was 16 light years from Earth. What: did 
Nero's arrival push Vulcan into our solar system? Did it somehow improve warp 
drive? 

* Do they not have subspace communications at warp, or was Nero jamming the 
fleet's communications? I couldn't figure out why no one sent an alert message 
to Enterprise as it was in route to investigate what was at first thought to be 
an anomaly. 

* Where is that planet "Delta Vega" Kirk and old Spock were stranded on? Spock 
was able to look up in the sky and clearly see Vulcan destroyed, without a 
telescope. I'm assuming therefore they were on Vulcan's sister planet. But that 
planet is named T'Khut, which forms a binary planetary system with it. (some 
accounts say it's Vulcan's moon, but Spock himself once said "Vulcan has no 
moon"). I thought T'Khut was more of a hot, lava-covered planet, not an ice 
planet. 

* And isn't "Delta Vega" the name of the diluthium mining planet where Kirk 
abandoned Gary Mitchell in the OS ep "Where No Man Has Gone Before"? What's up 
with that? 

* Does Nero use insta-h

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Daryle Lockhart]

Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin...

There's no way I can take all those questions,  but I'll address a  
couple:

Kirk was unconscious  but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles  
away.  Had he stayed in the pod (until  he was pried out and eaten)  
Spock would have gotten away with it.

Nero dug wholes for a living.  Probably not the sharpest  ears on  
Romulus.

Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet  until  he convinced himself  
otherwise.  First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship.  
You see how well it worked for Riker.

...and don't you know that  whenever there's an emergency you turn  
the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even  
getting PAID, why go into actual combat!?

On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Reas ipse loquitor...
>
>
>
>
>
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>
>  Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm...  
> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
>
>  Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC)
>
>  From : Keith Johnson 
>
>  To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that  
> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun  
> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the  
> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot  
> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek  
> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing.  
> Off the top of my head...
>
>
> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and  
> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years  
> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to  
> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock  
> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to  
> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them  
> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records,  
> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the  
> planet--including his wife!
>
> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the  
> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first  
> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs,  
> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me  
> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the  
> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships?
>
> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too  
> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious*  
> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by  
> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock.  
> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown  
> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death,  
> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock  
> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing!
>
> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and  
> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he  
> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the  
> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original  
> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took years to make  
> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic  
> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real  
> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to  
> pilot the ship. WTF???
>
> * I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First  
> Officer. Spock was originally portrayed as supremely confident,  
> maybe even arrogant. So he has one breakdown, freaks out, and comes  
> back saying "Can I play with you?" If they're handing out ships to  
> people with no experience, surely Spock--who at least had  
> functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his own!
>
> * WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight  
> Nero? They said several times it was in another system (name  
> escapes me), and somehow we're to believe it couldn't come help the  
> Enterprise?
>
> * This is an ongoing problem in Trek, but it's worse here: the  
> speed of travel. How the heck close does Abrams think Vulcan is to  
> Earth? From what I could tell, they zipped there from Earth in  
> under an hour. Then they later zipped back to Earth in what appears  
> even better time. Yet Chekhov said more than once "If we can just  
> get up to Warp 4" Back then, the warp number was cubed to  
> determine absolute velocity, meaning they were trying to get to  
> around 64c. At that speed, it'd take nearly a week to get to Alpha  
> Centauri, nevermind trying to reach Vulcan, which in (old) canon  
> was 16 light years from Earth. What: did Nero's arrival push Vulcan  

[RE][scifinoir2] Can't fix stupid

[Martin Baxter]

Ah, Civilization...

I'll be moving back into the trees, if anyone needs me.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : [scifinoir2] Can't fix stupid

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT)

 From : Augustus Augustus 

 To : atlantameetngre...@yahoogroups.com, bham_meet_n_gr...@yahoogroups.com, 
"LaToya R. Bishop" , Sci Fi , 
Mirhonda Studevant , Sherron Thomas 












 
 
 






Very FUNNY


 


 

 





 




 





 







 

 

 










































Can't fix stupid is right... unless you have a spatula!











 



















 It took me a second, but make sure you read the story under the picture. 

Keep in mind this actually did happen.  This is someone who was moving from an 
insurance claims office. 

 

 Okay so this is how I imagine this conversation went: 

Wal-Mart Employee:   'Hello 'dis be WalMarts, how can I help you?' 

Customer: ' I would like to order a cake for a going away party this week.' 

Wal-Mart Employee:  'Whats you want on da cake?' 

Customer:  'Best Wishes Suzanne ' and underneath that










   'We will miss you'. 
 
STOP LAUGHING!...You can't fix stupid








 

 

 







 











-- 
Sue
 



-- 
Scott Lewis }:>
 
 


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

[Martin Baxter]

As do I, Fate. Once I dove into the piece, I went full-immersion, and worked 
every scenario as a real-time combat sitch. Danger of being a long-time Risk 
player.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 07:21:56 -0700 (PDT)

 From : Augustus Augustus 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


but Martin, i give the author credit on some of his points.  the rumsfeld 
comment and the dhs were priceless!
 
Fate.

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter  wrote:


From: Martin Baxter 
Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 7:56 AM












Looks like a somewhat sound analysis. One problem that the author fails to take 
into account, though.

The Romulan ship is from the future. Its tech, ergo, is going to be 
head-and-shoulders above anything Starfleet can throw at it (unless the 
timeline alteration also handed them a massive upgrade int hat department, that 
is). It would probably take a concerted effort by everything 'Fleet had to 
throw at it. It's the only way they were able to stave off the Borg, the 
Dominion and the Breen until they were able to gain a technological advantage.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--
Subject : [scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 21:58:17 -0700
>From : "Mr. Worf" 
To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com

This is a pretty interesting look at the movie. What do you think? 

http://www.wired. com/dangerroom/ 2009/05/star- trek-a-military- analysis/ 



http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds 















 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[George Arterberry]

All,
 
I think Kirk was "frocked" as captain.
 
Military types should know what it means. 

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Daryle Lockhart  wrote:

From: Daryle Lockhart 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 5:49 PM








Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin...

There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a 
couple:

Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles 
away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten) 
Spock would have gotten away with it.

Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on 
Romulus.

Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself 
otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship. 
You see how well it worked for Riker.

...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn 
the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even 
getting PAID, why go into actual combat!?

On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Reas ipse loquitor...
>
>
>
>
>
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>
> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
>
> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC)
>
> From : Keith Johnson 
>
> To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that 
> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun 
> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the 
> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot 
> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek 
> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing. 
> Off the top of my head...
>
>
> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and 
> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years 
> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe? ! He takes years to 
> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock 
> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to 
> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them 
> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records, 
> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the 
> planet--including his wife!
>
> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the 
> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first 
> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, 
> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me 
> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the 
> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships?
>
> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too 
> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* 
> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by 
> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock. 
> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown 
> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock 
> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing!
>
> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and 
> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he 
> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the 
> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original 
> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy" ), took years to make 
> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic 
> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real 
> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to 
> pilot the ship. WTF???
>
> * I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First 
> Officer. Spock was originally portrayed as supremely confident, 
> maybe even arrogant. So he has one breakdown, freaks out, and comes 
> back saying "Can I play with you?" If they're handing out ships to 
> people with no experience, surely Spock--who at least had 
> functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his own!
>
> * WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight 
> Nero? They said several times it was in another system (name 
> escapes me), and somehow we're to believe it couldn't come help the 
> Enterprise?
>
> * This is an ongoing problem in Trek, but it's worse here: the 
> speed of travel. How the heck close does Abrams think Vulcan is to 
> Earth? From what I could tell, they zipped there from Earth in 
> under an hour. Then they later zipped back to Earth in what appears 
> even better time. Yet Chekhov said more than once "If we can just 
> get up to Warp 4" Back then, the warp number was cubed to 
> determine ab

[scifinoir2] The fate of Black America in Star Trek canon

[George Arterberry]

Was the majority of "us" wiped out in WW3? Remember in most novels Black 
characters were from the United States of Africa.I know I know, but its 
interesting that no novel has been written yet by a Black author.
 
 
 
Would love to see how President obama is woven into the Trek universe? There is 
a Black woman president added to Mount Rushmore that never made ST V final cut. 
 
Just thinking out loud. 



  

[RE][scifinoir2] The fate of Black America in Star Trek canon

[Martin Baxter]

And brilliant thoughts they are, George.

In most Dystopian novels/movies I've seen in which there are no people of 
color, I always think that they did what I would do in such a sitch -- get the 
first available transport as far away from the combat zne as possible. 
Australia is my first thought. And I await that weaving myself with joy.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : [scifinoir2] The fate of Black America in Star Trek canon

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 15:11:42 -0700 (PDT)

 From : George Arterberry 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


Was the majority of "us" wiped out in WW3? Remember in most novels Black 
characters were from the United States of Africa.I know I know, but its 
interesting that no novel has been written yet by a Black author.
 
 
 
Would love to see how President obama is woven into the Trek universe? There is 
a Black woman president added to Mount Rushmore that never made ST V final cut. 
 
Just thinking out loud. 



 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Martin Baxter]

Only thing that makes sense, George.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!)

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 15:06:47 -0700 (PDT)

 From : George Arterberry 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


All,
 
I think Kirk was "frocked" as captain.
 
Military types should know what it means. 

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Daryle Lockhart  wrote:

From: Daryle Lockhart 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 5:49 PM








Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin...

There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a 
couple:

Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles 
away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten) 
Spock would have gotten away with it.

Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on 
Romulus.

Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself 
otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship. 
You see how well it worked for Riker.

...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn 
the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even 
getting PAID, why go into actual combat!?

On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Reas ipse loquitor...
>
>
>
>
>
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>
> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
>
> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC)
>
> From : Keith Johnson 
>
> To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that 
> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun 
> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the 
> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot 
> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek 
> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing. 
> Off the top of my head...
>
>
> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and 
> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years 
> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe? ! He takes years to 
> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock 
> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to 
> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them 
> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records, 
> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the 
> planet--including his wife!
>
> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the 
> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first 
> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, 
> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me 
> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the 
> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships?
>
> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too 
> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* 
> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by 
> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock. 
> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown 
> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock 
> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing!
>
> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and 
> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he 
> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the 
> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original 
> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy" ), took years to make 
> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic 
> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real 
> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to 
> pilot the ship. WTF???
>
> * I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First 
> Officer. Spock was originally portrayed as supremely confident, 
> maybe even arrogant. So he has one breakdown, freaks out, and comes 
> back saying "Can I play with you?" If they're handing out ships to 
> people with no experience, surely Spock--who at least had 
> functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his own!
>
> * WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight 
> Nero? They said several times it was in another system (name 
> escapes me), and somehow we're to believe it couldn't come help the 
> Enterprise?
>
> * This is an ongoing problem in Trek, but it's worse here: the 
> speed of travel. How the heck close does Abrams think V

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Martin Baxter]

Missed me by that much... ;-)

And HOW does a post-hole digger get his hands on a warship AND a time-travel 
device? And, as for why they went into combat... heck. You know how those crazy 
kids can be!





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!)

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 17:49:43 -0400

 From : Daryle Lockhart 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin...

There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a 
couple:

Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles 
away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten) 
Spock would have gotten away with it.

Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on 
Romulus.

Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself 
otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship. 
You see how well it worked for Riker.

...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn 
the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even 
getting PAID, why go into actual combat!?

On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Reas ipse loquitor...
>
>
>
>
>
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>
> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
>
> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC)
>
> From : Keith Johnson 
>
> To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that 
> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun 
> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the 
> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot 
> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek 
> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing. 
> Off the top of my head...
>
>
> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and 
> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years 
> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to 
> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock 
> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to 
> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them 
> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records, 
> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the 
> planet--including his wife!
>
> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the 
> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first 
> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, 
> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me 
> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the 
> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships?
>
> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too 
> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* 
> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by 
> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock. 
> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown 
> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock 
> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing!
>
> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and 
> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he 
> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the 
> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original 
> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took years to make 
> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic 
> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real 
> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to 
> pilot the ship. WTF???
>
> * I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First 
> Officer. Spock was originally portrayed as supremely confident, 
> maybe even arrogant. So he has one breakdown, freaks out, and comes 
> back saying "Can I play with you?" If they're handing out ships to 
> people with no experience, surely Spock--who at least had 
> functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his own!
>
> * WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight 
> Nero? They said several times it was in another system (name 
> escapes me), and somehow we're to believe it couldn't come help the 
> Enterprise?
>
> * This is an ongoing problem in Trek, but it's worse here: the 
> speed of travel. How the heck close does Abrams think Vulcan is to 
> Earth? From what I could tell, they zipped there from Earth in 
> under an hour. Then they later zipped back to Earth in what appears 
> even better time. Yet Chekh

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

[Martin Baxter]

I would've known that if I hadn't been laid up with my bad back last week. I'd 
planned on an outing to my comics store.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 14:15:04 -

 From : "B. Smith" 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


In the prequel comic series Countdown it was explained that the ship was 
upgraded using Borg tech. The Romulans found a Borg cube with no living drones 
and managed to reverse engineer some of their tech including some of the 
weaponry and the adaptive ability of the Borg ships. 

That would go a long way in explaining why its weaponry went through TOS era 
shielding as if it didn't exist.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Baxter"  wrote:
>
> Looks like a somewhat sound analysis. One problem that the author fails to 
> take into account, though.
> 
> The Romulan ship is from the future. Its tech, ergo, is going to be 
> head-and-shoulders above anything Starfleet can throw at it (unless the 
> timeline alteration also handed them a massive upgrade int hat department, 
> that is). It would probably take a concerted effort by everything 'Fleet had 
> to throw at it. It's the only way they were able to stave off the Borg, the 
> Dominion and the Breen until they were able to gain a technological advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
-[ Received Mail Content ]--
> 
 Subject : [scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek
> 
 Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 21:58:17 -0700
> 
 From : "Mr. Worf" 
> 
 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
This is a pretty interesting look at the movie. What do you think?
> 
> http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/05/star-trek-a-military-analysis/
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds
>





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

[Martin Baxter]

After that "poke holes in the story" post here, I won't be partaking.

Martin (usually doesn't revel in being difficult...)





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 06:47:35 -0700 (PDT)

 From : Augustus Augustus 

 To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com


Martin, 
 
when u going?  i need 2 see it again, so i will tag along with u.
 
Fate.

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter  wrote:


From: Martin Baxter 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:01 AM












To everyone who's been trying to lure me into see this -- *that's* the bait. 
Even though McCoy never uttered that line, I still quote it when apropos in 
real life. I just night have to go, just for that thrill.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--
Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 19:31:00 -0400
>From : Justin Mohareb 
To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com

I'm sorry, you'll have to find out for yourself. 

Justin 

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 
> That's one constant I've been hearing in every review I've heard from people 
> who've seen this, that Urban's McCoy was truly a thing of beauty. One guy I 
> know even called it "channeling DeForrest Kelley". 
> 
> Spoil one thing for me, though. Does Urban-as-McCoy say The Line? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
> 
>  Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
> 
>  Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:27 - 
> 
>  From : "B. Smith" 
> 
>  To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
> 
> Well I'm late to the party but I have to say that I really, really, really 
> enjoyed the new movie. It was definitely a good time at the movies and it 
> delivered in a big way. The people in the theater actually applauded at the 
> end the movie. 
> 
> I think all of the main actors did really well in their roles with the 
> exception of Eric Bana who was sort of just there. The biggest surprise for 
> me was Karl Urban taking the McCoy role and running with it. Simon Pegg was 
> hilarious as Scotty. Chris Pine was a fun, rakish young Kirk. I liked Zachary 
> Quinto's take on a younger less in control Spock. Zoe Saldana did a lot with 
> her role and the Spock-Uhura romance made sense in the altered timeline. 
> 
> One of my favorite bits was the scene with Kirk and Uhura's roomate. That got 
> a huge audience reaction. 
> 
> The fate of the Kelvin was an epic opening scene. And seeing the Enterprise 
> in space the first time was gretted with cheers of joy. 
> 
> One plot point I loved was that: 
> 
> S 
> P 
> O 
> I 
> E 
> R 
> S 
> 
> B 
> E 
> L 
> O 
> W 
> 
> Kirk's altered timeline was merely a side effect of Nero's quest to hurt 
> Spock for the destruction of Romulus. 
> 
> And I have to say seeing Kirk come onto the bridge in the gold tunic at the 
> end was just awesome. I marked out like a little kid when I saw that. 
> 
> I had my concerns about what Abrams and Co. were going to so but they knocked 
> out of the park. I'll definitely watch it again. 
> 
> --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, "ravenadal"  wrote: 
>> 
>> Okay, Martin, I was with you all the way up to the Gabrielle Union in the 
>> "old school" Uhura uniform comment but, to paraphrase Ozzie Osbourne, you 
>> have just taken a ride on the bloody crazy train! 
>> 
>> (Uh, gentlemen, that Gabrielle Union home delivery of the DVD IS something I 
>> might be interested in!) 
>> 
>> ~rave! 
>> 
>> --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, "Martin Baxter"  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Not even if you were to buy me the Special Edition DVD when it came out, 
>> > wrapped that in C-notes and had it hand-delivered to me by Gabrielle Union 
>> > in an old-school Uhura uniform. (Let 'em doubt my sincerity NOW.) 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
>> > 
>> Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
>> > 
>> Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 16:14:32 -0700 
>> > 
>> From : "Tracey de Morsella" 
>> > 
>> To : 
>> > 
>> > 
>> C’mon, not even on DVD, the Internet or cable? 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On 
>> > Behalf Of Martin Baxter 
>> > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:39 PM 
>> > To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 
>> > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Fate, I'm on the record. Best I can do is to give it a lot of thought. In 
>> > recent months, I've resisted seeing a lot of movies I was told I *had* to 
>> > see, almost all of which turned out to be crap. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
>> > Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 
>> > Date : Sun, 10 May 2009 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) 
>> > From : Augustus Augustus 
>> > To

Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

[wlrouge]

Romulan ale...I have to say that I went to see it. I was surprise that it was 
good. The only problem that I had with it was that the relationship that they 
felt that had to interject with Spock. Seeing the flow of the movie I am glad 
that they did not use an older Kirk in this movie. It would not have made any 
sense. I like the nod they gave to Captain Archer in the movie. Great movie now 
enough with the Enterprise bring me a movie with DS9. Oh Mr. Baxter--hurry with 
the Ale. Where I am from in Georgia it is illegal.
--Lavender


From: Martin Baxter 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 7:32 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*




  I like the cut of your jib, Lavendar. Can I bring anything?





-[ Received Mail Content ]--
Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 01:00:13 -0400
From : 
To : 

I hope to see this tomorrow, which would be today when this email is 
posted. 
I too am a core trekkie. I am not saying that I am the one that is 
dressed 
in uniform as I am writing this. I have always felt that a movie needs 
to 
bring in a new crowd but with doing that not to loose the old one. We 
are 
the ones that are buying the product. I find it unlikely that we will 
see 
any newbie's at conventions this year based on this movie. I thought 
that it 
was cannon that the Vulcan's were a major player in Trek history. If 
this is 
not the case then who were? I would love a mention of TPol in this. I 
mean 
she might would have been the only person to really do a cross over 
without 
a time travel being involved. When I see this, I hope I get the feeling 
that he has done justice to the series. If not--I am going to Ace 
Hardware 
and get a deflector dish. Then I am going to bill a multiplexing 
beaking to 
put on top of it to contact the Borg to get rid of JJ Abrams and his 
crew. 
Then I going to invite Q over for dinner to try to convince him to fix 
this 
whole thing. Any one up for dinner? 
--Lavender 

-- 
From: "sincere1906" 
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:24 AM 
To: 
Subject: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS* 

> Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am just 
> getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing this on 
a 
> Red Stripe buzz, but here goes... 
> 
> S P O I L E R S ! ! ! 
> 
> I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent. 
There was 
> well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought 
> everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to Chekhov. 
So as 
> a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four. 
> 
> The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group like 
this, 
> is was it good Trek? 
> 
> On this, I'm truly torn. 
> 
> First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you know 
about 
> Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to that 
> Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's father, 
the 
> timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The 
Butterfly 
> effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love 
affar 
> between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This was 
a 
> bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an 
entire 
> alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with 
Vulcans 
> reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the Federation 
> could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha 
> Quadrant. They should call this "Ultimate Star Trek!" There's a sense 
of 
> loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called home no 
> longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know 
future 
> figures like Picard might never have been born. For the first time I 
can 
> recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek 
> universe. That will take some getting used to. 
> 
> Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure out 
where 
> this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its 
faults, 
> the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a 
Russian 
> main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this Trek 
taking 
> any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand in 
the 
> midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging a

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] The fate of Black America in Star Trek canon

[Augustus Augustus]

speaking of Blacks in Sci-Fi. did anyone other than me read DC Comic's Final 
Crisis books from July 98 - Feb 09?  it was a 7 issue mini that featured a 
Black President in the Finale.  not just a Black President, but he was Superman 
from a parallel Earth.  i thought that that was so kool, again, just me.

Fate.

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter  wrote:

From: Martin Baxter 
Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] The fate of Black America in Star Trek canon
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 6:20 PM
















  
 And brilliant thoughts they are, George.

In most Dystopian novels/movies I've seen in which there are no people of 
color, I always think that they did what I would do in such a sitch -- get the 
first available transport as far away from the combat zne as possible. 
Australia is my first thought. And I await that weaving myself with joy.





-[ Received Mail Content ]--

 Subject : [scifinoir2] The fate of Black America in Star Trek canon

 Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 15:11:42 -0700 (PDT)

 From : George Arterberry 

 To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com





Was the majority of "us" wiped out in WW3? Remember in most novels Black 
characters were from the United States of Africa.I know I know, but its 
interesting that no novel has been written yet by a Black author.

 

 

 

Would love to see how President obama is woven into the Trek universe? There is 
a Black woman president added to Mount Rushmore that never made ST V final cut. 

 

Just thinking out loud. 







  


http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds



 

  




 

















  

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Daryle Lockhart]

This is Romulus post - Nemesis. Dude's mining ship was tighter than  
anything 23rd Century Federation could deal with. They're just this  
side of polarizing the hull plating  for protection.


On May 12, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Missed me by that much... ;-)
>
> And HOW does a post-hole digger get his hands on a warship AND a  
> time-travel device? And, as for why they went into combat... heck.  
> You know how those crazy kids can be!
>
>
>
>
>
> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>
>  Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go  
> Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
>
>  Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 17:49:43 -0400
>
>  From : Daryle Lockhart 
>
>  To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin...
>
> There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a
> couple:
>
> Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles
> away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten)
> Spock would have gotten away with it.
>
> Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on
> Romulus.
>
> Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself
> otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship.
> You see how well it worked for Riker.
>
> ...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn
> the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even
> getting PAID, why go into actual combat!?
>
> On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>> Reas ipse loquitor...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>>
>> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm...
>> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
>>
>> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC)
>>
>> From : Keith Johnson
>>
>> To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that
>> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun
>> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the
>> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot
>> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek
>> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing.
>> Off the top of my head...
>>
>>
>> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and
>> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years
>> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to
>> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock
>> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to
>> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them
>> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records,
>> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the
>> planet--including his wife!
>>
>> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the
>> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first
>> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs,
>> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me
>> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the
>> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships?
>>
>> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too
>> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious*
>> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by
>> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock.
>> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown
>> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death,
>> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock
>> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy  
>> writing!
>>
>> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and
>> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he
>> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the
>> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original
>> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took years to make
>> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic
>> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real
>> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to
>> pilot the ship. WTF???
>>
>> * I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First
>> Officer. Spock was originally portrayed as supremely confident,
>> maybe even arrogant. So he has one breakdown, freaks out, and comes
>> back saying "Can I play with you?" If they're handing out ships to
>> people with no experience, surely Spock--who at least had
>> functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his  
>> own!
>>
>> * WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight
>> Nero? They said several times it was in another system (name
>> escapes me), and somehow we're to be

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Keith Johnson]

So Spock was about to leave Starfleet, but came back. So, why didn't he come 
back somewhere else? Why did he feel he was only fit to serve under Kirk? 
Doesn't make sense to me... 

So turn off the comm and let the Enterprise do the job? Funny! Although all 
those ships that were destroyed--as evidenced by the debris field the 
Enterprise warped into--probably wish they'd just stayed home! 

- Original Message - 
From: "Daryle Lockhart"  
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:49:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!) 








Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin... 

There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a 
couple: 

Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles 
away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten) 
Spock would have gotten away with it. 

Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on 
Romulus. 

Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself 
otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship. 
You see how well it worked for Riker. 

...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn 
the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even 
getting PAID, why go into actual combat!? 

On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 

> Reas ipse loquitor... 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
> 
> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!) 
> 
> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC) 
> 
> From : Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > 
> 
> To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that 
> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun 
> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the 
> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot 
> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek 
> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing. 
> Off the top of my head... 
> 
> 
> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and 
> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years 
> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to 
> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock 
> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to 
> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them 
> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records, 
> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the 
> planet--including his wife! 
> 
> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the 
> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first 
> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, 
> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me 
> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the 
> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships? 
> 
> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too 
> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* 
> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by 
> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock. 
> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown 
> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock 
> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing! 
> 
> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and 
> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he 
> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the 
> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original 
> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took years to make 
> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic 
> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real 
> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to 
> pilot the ship. WTF??? 
> 
> * I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First 
> Officer. Spock was originally portrayed as supremely confident, 
> maybe even arrogant. So he has one breakdown, freaks out, and comes 
> back saying "Can I play with you?" If they're handing out ships to 
> people with no experience, surely Spock--who at least had 
> functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his own! 
> 
> * WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight 
> Nero? They said several times it was in another system (name 
> escapes me), and somehow we're to believe it couldn't come help the 
> Enterprise? 
> 
> * This is an ongoing problem

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[wlrouge]

I have to chime in on this. The part of shooting Kirk out. When Pike left 
for Nero ship Spock was Captain and Kirk was the first officer. Isn't there 
a rule that states you can't just kill off of shoot someone out of the air 
lock. Or was President Roslyn Spock's aunt in this time line too. If Kirk 
was the first officer he would have been part of the senior staff. Also I 
think that Spock has said in the movies once before he has no desire for 
command. Perhaps this Spock has the same feeling as well.
--Lavender

--
From: "Daryle Lockhart" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:49 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

> Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin...
>
> There's no way I can take all those questions,  but I'll address a
> couple:
>
> Kirk was unconscious  but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles
> away.  Had he stayed in the pod (until  he was pried out and eaten)
> Spock would have gotten away with it.
>
> Nero dug wholes for a living.  Probably not the sharpest  ears on
> Romulus.
>
> Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet  until  he convinced himself
> otherwise.  First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship.
> You see how well it worked for Riker.
>
> ...and don't you know that  whenever there's an emergency you turn
> the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even
> getting PAID, why go into actual combat!?
>
> On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>> Reas ipse loquitor...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -[ Received Mail Content ]--
>>
>>  Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm...
>> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
>>
>>  Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC)
>>
>>  From : Keith Johnson 
>>
>>  To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that
>> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun
>> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the
>> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot
>> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek
>> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing.
>> Off the top of my head...
>>
>>
>> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and
>> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years
>> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to
>> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock
>> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to
>> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them
>> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records,
>> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the
>> planet--including his wife!
>>
>> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the
>> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first
>> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs,
>> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me
>> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the
>> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships?
>>
>> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too
>> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious*
>> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by
>> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock.
>> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown
>> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death,
>> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock
>> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing!
>>
>> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and
>> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he
>> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the
>> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original
>> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took years to make
>> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic
>> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real
>> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to
>> pilot the ship. WTF???
>>
>> * I don't buy Spock's resigning himself to being Kirk's First
>> Officer. Spock was originally portrayed as supremely confident,
>> maybe even arrogant. So he has one breakdown, freaks out, and comes
>> back saying "Can I play with you?" If they're handing out ships to
>> people with no experience, surely Spock--who at least had
>> functioned as an officer longer than Kirk--deserved a ship of his own!
>>
>> * WTF was the Federation fleet doing such that it couldn't fight
>> Nero? They said several times it was in another system (name
>> escapes me), and somehow we're 

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[wlrouge]

Shinzon of Remus perhaps?
--Lavender


From: Martin Baxter 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 6:29 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!)




  Missed me by that much... ;-)

  And HOW does a post-hole digger get his hands on a warship AND a 
time-travel device? And, as for why they went into combat... heck. You know how 
those crazy kids can be!





-[ Received Mail Content ]--
Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go 
Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)
Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 17:49:43 -0400
From : Daryle Lockhart 
To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com

Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin... 

There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a 
couple: 

Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles 
away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten) 
Spock would have gotten away with it. 

Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on 
Romulus. 

Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself 
otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship. 
You see how well it worked for Riker. 

...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn 
the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even 
getting PAID, why go into actual combat!? 

On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 

> Reas ipse loquitor... 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
> 
> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!) 
> 
> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC) 
> 
> From : Keith Johnson 
> 
> To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that 
> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun 
> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the 
> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot 
> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek 
> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing. 
> Off the top of my head... 
> 
> 
> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and 
> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years 
> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to 
> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock 
> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to 
> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them 
> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records, 
> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the 
> planet--including his wife! 
> 
> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the 
> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first 
> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, 
> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me 
> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the 
> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships? 
> 
> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too 
> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* 
> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by 
> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock. 
> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown 
> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock 
> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy 
writing! 
> 
> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and 
> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he 
> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the 
> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original 
> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took years to make 
> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic 
> as me??? The whole bridge staff is a bunch of people with no real 
> deep space experience. Hell, Sulu isn't even really trained to 
> pilot the ship. WTF??? 
 

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek

[Keith Johnson]

Not being a drinking man, and never having gone the strip club route, you know 
what I did the night before my wedding? Stayed up til 5 am laughing and joking 
with buddies, making milkshakes (my only weakness on Earth), and...playing Risk 
for hours! Of course I won every game. :) We used to modify Risk in ways to 
make it fun. We always entered into alliances, forming unions of nations 
wherein the members avoided attacking each other, promising to gang up on 
weaker countries, etc. The fun part was the inevitable moment when someone 
would yell "The Alliance is broken!" and then start attacking his former 
friend. 

A friend of mine who was in the Navy said they added an option to Risk called 
"Nuclear Flash": if you managed to roll three sixes at once as the attacker, 
the country you're attacking is instantly wiped out by a high megaton 
thermonuclear strike! Then you just mosey on end and take over. Now I think of 
it, I guess if you can immediately occupy the country, the bomb had to be a 
neutron bomb... 

- Original Message - 
From: "Martin Baxter"  
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 6:05:38 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek 








As do I, Fate. Once I dove into the piece, I went full-immersion, and 
worked every scenario as a real-time combat sitch. Danger of being a long-time 
Risk player. 






-[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek 
Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 07:21:56 -0700 (PDT) 
>From : Augustus Augustus  
To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 

but Martin, i give the author credit on some of his points. the rumsfeld 
comment and the dhs were priceless! 

Fate. 

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Martin Baxter wrote: 


From: Martin Baxter 
Subject: [RE][scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek 
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 7:56 AM 












Looks like a somewhat sound analysis. One problem that the author fails to take 
into account, though. 

The Romulan ship is from the future. Its tech, ergo, is going to be 
head-and-shoulders above anything Starfleet can throw at it (unless the 
timeline alteration also handed them a massive upgrade int hat department, that 
is). It would probably take a concerted effort by everything 'Fleet had to 
throw at it. It's the only way they were able to stave off the Borg, the 
Dominion and the Breen until they were able to gain a technological advantage. 





-[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
Subject : [scifinoir2] topic: A military analysis of Star Trek 
Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 21:58:17 -0700 
>From : "Mr. Worf" 
To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com 

This is a pretty interesting look at the movie. What do you think? 

http://www.wired. com/dangerroom/ 2009/05/star- trek-a-military- analysis/ 



http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds 


















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds 

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Keith Johnson]

yeah, but, it's a mining ship! But I see the explanation he reversed-engineered 
it with Borg tech. 
Which brings up the point again: this simple miner turned his ship into a 
dreadnought, took twenty-five years to do it, and still never thought of 
spending that time preparing Romulus for the future catastropher? 

Come on... 

- Original Message - 
From: "Daryle Lockhart"  
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:02:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!) 








This is Romulus post - Nemesis. Dude's mining ship was tighter than 
anything 23rd Century Federation could deal with. They're just this 
side of polarizing the hull plating for protection. 

On May 12, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 

> Missed me by that much... ;-) 
> 
> And HOW does a post-hole digger get his hands on a warship AND a 
> time-travel device? And, as for why they went into combat... heck. 
> You know how those crazy kids can be! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
> 
> Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go 
> Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!) 
> 
> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 17:49:43 -0400 
> 
> From : Daryle Lockhart < dar...@darylelockhart.com > 
> 
> To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> 
> Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin... 
> 
> There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a 
> couple: 
> 
> Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles 
> away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten) 
> Spock would have gotten away with it. 
> 
> Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on 
> Romulus. 
> 
> Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself 
> otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship. 
> You see how well it worked for Riker. 
> 
> ...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn 
> the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even 
> getting PAID, why go into actual combat!? 
> 
> On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 
> 
>> Reas ipse loquitor... 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
>> 
>> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
>> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!) 
>> 
>> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC) 
>> 
>> From : Keith Johnson 
>> 
>> To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that 
>> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun 
>> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the 
>> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot 
>> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek 
>> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing. 
>> Off the top of my head... 
>> 
>> 
>> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and 
>> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years 
>> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to 
>> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock 
>> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to 
>> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them 
>> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records, 
>> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the 
>> planet--including his wife! 
>> 
>> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the 
>> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first 
>> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, 
>> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me 
>> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the 
>> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships? 
>> 
>> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too 
>> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* 
>> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by 
>> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock. 
>> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown 
>> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
>> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock 
>> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy 
>> writing! 
>> 
>> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and 
>> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he 
>> basically avoids getting killed, and they give him what was the 
>> flagship of the Federation? Even fast risers like Picard, original 
>> Kirk, and Triala Scott (TNG Ep "Conspiracy"), took years to make 
>> captain. Is anyone else as bothered by that complete lack of logic 
>> as me??? The whole bridge staff i

Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, WTF?! (Spoilers!)

[Keith Johnson]

Well, rule or not, you don't go shooting people out airlocks in a military! 
That's just stupid and irrational. (Again, we get it JJ, we get it!) 

As for Spock not wanting command, that was older Spock the other continuity, 
the one who'd served thirteen years with Captain Pike. Before his little hissy 
fit on the bridge, this Spock was extremely confident being captain. And 
frankly, if their point is that he realizes he's too emotional fragile to be 
captain, then he'd stay completely away from the bridge, not be just one step 
from the Big Chair. 

- Original Message - 
From: wlro...@aol.com 
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:21:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... or, 
WTF?! (Spoilers!) 








I have to chime in on this. The part of shooting Kirk out. When Pike left 
for Nero ship Spock was Captain and Kirk was the first officer. Isn't there 
a rule that states you can't just kill off of shoot someone out of the air 
lock. Or was President Roslyn Spock's aunt in this time line too. If Kirk 
was the first officer he would have been part of the senior staff. Also I 
think that Spock has said in the movies once before he has no desire for 
command. Perhaps this Spock has the same feeling as well. 
--Lavender 

-- 
From: "Daryle Lockhart" < dar...@darylelockhart.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:49 PM 
To: < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > 
Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
or, WTF?! (Spoilers!) 

> Way to go, Keith, we almost had Martin... 
> 
> There's no way I can take all those questions, but I'll address a 
> couple: 
> 
> Kirk was unconscious but there WAS a federation outpost 14 miles 
> away. Had he stayed in the pod (until he was pried out and eaten) 
> Spock would have gotten away with it. 
> 
> Nero dug wholes for a living. Probably not the sharpest ears on 
> Romulus. 
> 
> Spock was about to LEAVE Starfleet until he convinced himself 
> otherwise. First Officer is logical...plus his girl's on the ship. 
> You see how well it worked for Riker. 
> 
> ...and don't you know that whenever there's an emergency you turn 
> the comm off and let them send the Enterprise? You're not even 
> getting PAID, why go into actual combat!? 
> 
> On May 12, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: 
> 
>> Reas ipse loquitor... 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -[ Received Mail Content ]-- 
>> 
>> Subject : [scifinoir2] "Star Trek" Things that Make You Go Hmmm... 
>> or, WTF?! (Spoilers!) 
>> 
>> Date : Tue, 12 May 2009 21:27:21 + (UTC) 
>> 
>> From : Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > 
>> 
>> To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm sorry, I know the movie's fun. I also freely acknowledge that 
>> past Trek movies have left strict canon and rules to tell a fun 
>> story (violation of the Prime and Temporal Directives to give the 
>> secret of transparent aluminum for one). But still, there are a lot 
>> of points in the movie that bothered me. Some show lack of Trek 
>> knowledge, some show disregard for it. Some's just sloppy writing. 
>> Off the top of my head... 
>> 
>> 
>> * Is there any reason that instead of trying to punish Spock and 
>> destroy the Federation, Nero didn't spend those twenty-five years 
>> preparing Romulus for the future catastrophe?! He takes years to 
>> soup up his ship, evidently sits on his bridge muttering "Spock 
>> must pay!" like some pointy-eared Captain Ahab, and plots to 
>> destroy Vulcan. Why didn't he jet on over to Romulus and warn them 
>> of what was coming? With his technology and computer records, 
>> they'd have to believe him, and he'd have decades to save the 
>> planet--including his wife! 
>> 
>> * Howcum Kirk's the *only* person in the fleet that recognizes the 
>> anomaly as Nero's ship? He was literally an infant when Nero first 
>> appeared, yet he recognizes the signs by having read Pike's logs, 
>> and Pike himself didn't make the connection? And you're telling me 
>> an event of that magnitude isn't in all ships' database so that the 
>> computers would have made the connection and warned the ships? 
>> 
>> * I stated in my review Abrams goes overboard showing Spock as too 
>> emotional. Anyone else bothered by him ejecting an *unconscious* 
>> Kirk onto a hostile ice planet where he very nearly gets eaten by 
>> monsters? If Kirk had died, it'd have been traced back to Spock. 
>> And why not just have the guy confined to quarters, or even thrown 
>> in the brig? No, waste an escape pod on the guy, risk his death, 
>> and make everyone in the audience go "oooh!". We get it JJ: Spock 
>> has trouble controlling his emotions, but this is just sloppy writing! 
>> 
>> * Okay Kirk is captain now. What?? He just left the Academy--and 
>> not even in good standing at that. He has one mission where he 
>> basically avoids getting killed, a

[scifinoir2] Star Wars v. Star Trek

[Augustus Augustus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KRc7fn434Y

Fate.



  

Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

[Daryle Lockhart]

I LOVED that Archer's dog is scattered in a transporter stream  
somewhere.


But, uh,  DS9...yeah, uhm... about that...

Given this timeline?  DS9 pretty much stays a Cardassian station. If  
the Federation DOES take it over? (Remember my theory on no Data and  
Klingons not checking for us) -- it's probably Captain RIKER that   
runs the joint.





On May 12, 2009, at 9:31 PM,  wrote:





Romulan ale...I have to say that I went to see it. I was surprise  
that it was good. The only problem that I had with it was that the  
relationship that they felt that had to interject with Spock.  
Seeing the flow of the movie I am glad that they did not use an  
older Kirk in this movie. It would not have made any sense. I like  
the nod they gave to Captain Archer in the movie. Great movie now  
enough with the Enterprise bring me a movie with DS9. Oh Mr.  
Baxter--hurry with the Ale. Where I am from in Georgia it is illegal.

--Lavender

From: Martin Baxter
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 7:32 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

I like the cut of your jib, Lavendar. Can I bring anything?




-[ Received Mail Content ]--
Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*
Date : Mon, 11 May 2009 01:00:13 -0400
From : 
To : 

I hope to see this tomorrow, which would be today when this email  
is posted.
I too am a core trekkie. I am not saying that I am the one that is  
dressed
in uniform as I am writing this. I have always felt that a movie  
needs to
bring in a new crowd but with doing that not to loose the old one.  
We are
the ones that are buying the product. I find it unlikely that we  
will see
any newbie's at conventions this year based on this movie. I  
thought that it
was cannon that the Vulcan's were a major player in Trek history.  
If this is
not the case then who were? I would love a mention of TPol in this.  
I mean
she might would have been the only person to really do a cross over  
without
a time travel being involved. When I see this, I hope I get the  
feeling
that he has done justice to the series. If not--I am going to Ace  
Hardware
and get a deflector dish. Then I am going to bill a multiplexing  
beaking to
put on top of it to contact the Borg to get rid of JJ Abrams and  
his crew.
Then I going to invite Q over for dinner to try to convince him to  
fix this

whole thing. Any one up for dinner?
--Lavender

--
From: "sincere1906"
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:24 AM
To:
Subject: [scifinoir2] New Trek- My take *SPOILERS*

> Okay it's 4am, I saw the new Trek movie about 8 hours ago and am  
just
> getting in after a night of debauchery. So I might be writing  
this on a

> Red Stripe buzz, but here goes...
>
> S P O I L E R S ! ! !
>
> I liked the movie. As a movie, it was good. The plot was decent.  
There was

> well-paced excitement, humor, etc. The cast was relatable. I thought
> everyone did a great job playing their roles--even down to  
Chekhov. So as

> a movie, good. I give it 3 stars out of four.
>
> The larger question, what I suppose matters the most on a group  
like this,

> is was it good Trek?
>
> On this, I'm truly torn.
>
> First off, I knew they said get ready to forget everything you  
know about
> Trek, but damn...I didn't know they were this serious! Thanks to  
that
> Romulan ship coming through a black hole and killing Kirk's  
father, the
> timeline that we know from that point on has been severed. The  
Butterfly
> effect has created a host of new phenomenon--right down to a love  
affar
> between Uhuru and Spock--which never seemed to exist before. This  
was a
> bold and daring move. The writers of this new Trek world have an  
entire
> alternate reality on their hands. They can do anything. And with  
Vulcans
> reduced to a virtual minor colony the entire course of the  
Federation

> could be altered, not to mention the balance of power in the Alpha
> Quadrant. They should call this "Ultimate Star Trek!" There's a  
sense of
> loss here knowing that the Trek reality that I've long called  
home no
> longer exists (or exists in some other timeline). For all we know  
future
> figures like Picard might never have been born. For the first  
time I can

> recall, we have a Trek spin off that cannot fit into the larger Trek
> universe. That will take some getting used to.
>
> Second, where a part of me is concerned, is I'm trying to figure  
out where
> this new story fits into Roddenberry's vision. Even with all its  
faults,
> the original Trek world was one that took radical positions--a  
Russian
> main character, a black main character, etc. I don't see this  
Trek taking
> any such bold moves. I don't see a vision here, even as we stand  
in the
> midst of a time almost as socially and politically challenging as  
the
> 1960s. Nothing illustrated this more than seeing product  
placement ads for
> Nokia, Budweiser and Jack Daniels. Pardon me for 

[scifinoir2] Top 10 real-life spy gadgets

[Tracey de Morsella]

Top 10 real-life spy gadgets

With the news that MI5 is looking for a Chief Scientific Adviser, spy
novelist Jeremy Duns reveals his ten favourite real espionage inventions

1. Poison-tipped umbrella 

Probably the most infamous real-life spy gadget is the umbrella used by the
Bulgarian secret services - with KGB help - to kill dissident writer and
broadcaster Georgi Markov. KGB technicians converted the tip of an ordinary
umbrella into a silenced gun that could fire a pellet containing a lethal
dose of ricin. On September 7 1978, Markov felt himself being jabbed in the
thigh as he walked across Waterloo Bridge. A man behind him apologised and
stepped into a taxi. Markov died four days later. No arrests have ever been
made. 

Times Archive: Tiny
  platinum ball
is link in attacks on Bulgarian defectors 

2. Dart gun 

It wasn't just Soviet bloc spies who used such techniques, though. In a 1975
US Senate hearing on intelligence, CIA director William Colby handed the
committee's chairman a gun developed by his researchers. 

Equipped with a telescopic sight, it could accurately fire a tiny dart -
tipped with shellfish toxin or cobra venom - up to 250 feet. Colby claimed
that, as far as he knew, this and other weapons had never been used, but he
couldn't entirely rule out the possibility. 

3. Compass buttons 

During the war, the Special Operations Executive - 'Churchill's secret army'
- created a wealth of Q-like devices. One ingenious invention was magnetized
trouser buttons, which were to be used for agent who became lost - if they
were taken prisoner, for example. By cutting off the buttons and balancing
them on each other, they turned into compasses. 

Times Archive: Cloak
  and Swordsmen 

4. Exploding briefcase 

Another SOE invention was a briefcase designed to hold sensitive documents,
but which would act as a booby trap for any enemy agent trying to open it
the wrong way. If the right-hand lock was held down and simultaneously
pushed to the right, the briefcase would click open safely; otherwise, the
left-hand lock would ignite. 

Churchill's
  Wizards reviewed by Max Hastings 

5. Exploding rats 

If exploding briefcases weren't enough, the SOE boffins created something
even more outlandish to battle the Nazis - exploding rats. Developed in
1941, the devices used the skins of real rats, with fuses concealed inside.
The idea was to use them to blow up German boilers, but they were quickly
discovered and so never put into production. 

SOE
  in the Land of the Eagle reviewed by Max
Hastings 

6. Cigarette-case gun 

In 1954, Soviet agent Nicolai Khokhlov was sent to Frankfurt to assassinate
an anti-Communist leader. But Khokhlov had a last-minute attack of nerves
and instead defected to the Americans. The Americans wasted no time in
showing the world press the would-be assassin's equipment, which included a
gold cigarette case that concealed an electrically operated gun capable of
firing cyanide-tipped bullets. In Ian Fleming's novel From Russia With Love,
fearsome assassin Red Grant tells his masters at SMERSH that they gave
Khokhlov's job to the wrong man: "I wouldn't have gone over to the Yanks." 

Times Archive: Surrender
  To Americans Of
Russian Terrorist 

7. Hollowed-out lighter 

In 1960, MI5 broke up a ring of KGB spies, at the centre of which were two
Americans, Morris and Lona Cohen. The Cohens lived in a bungalow in Ruislip
under cover as antiquarian booksellers Peter and Helen Kroger. But when MI5
searched the bungalow, they discovered an astonishing array of spy
paraphernalia, including a cigarette lighter made by Ronson (the same brand
as favoured by James Bond), inside which was hidden several one-time cipher
pads. These were printed on cellulose nitrate and impregnated with zinc
oxide so they would be easy to burn, thus destroying the evidence. But the
Cohens weren't quick enough, and they served eight years in prison. 

Times Archive: Little
  Suburban House
was Communication Centre for Spy Ring (more here
  ) 

8. Wallet document camera 

Most intelligence agencies want to recruit people with access to top-