Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
(standing ovation) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues Date : Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:04:24 + (UTC) From : Keith Johnson To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Two comments. One "anthropomorphism" is actually correct, because the robots are given human characteristics--both physical and behavorial. so *all* the robots outside of those that are animals or something, ar anthropomorphized, not just those that are racial stereotypes. Two, i think it comes back as always to quantity. When a film or franchise puts in *positive* black role models to offset the negative ones, then that's one thing. But when all we get is the negative, their power stays and lasts longer, and that's unfortunate. - Original Message - From: "Augustus Augustus" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:42:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues Mike, to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the movie and totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure escapism. the anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never crossed into my mind. i have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' was hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making fun of white geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought sucked, but a few funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. 'step brothers' poking fun at white people. remember how we all laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types picked at, so yes, sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before Sin jumps on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do believe the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants and have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled at that scene! but again, just my opinion. Fate. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: From: sincere1906 Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM Mike, And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention of racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The game usually works like this: black people (or other people who have faced oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv show, etc. The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation that it's absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she will assert they have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who are pointing out the perceived racial slight. Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, will usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity will be told to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their heads and that *they* are the racist ones being preoccupied with race. A few famous black apologists will be rolled out to say the black community should be worried about kids with low hanging pants (the scourge of the afrotocracy! ) or the like instead of a mere movie. Some will even come forth and say, "sure it's a stereotype-- but it's also true, so that makes it alright!" Oh and the Bill Cosby acolytes will naturally blame the rappers--who it seems invented a time machine, went back two centuries, and created all known black stereotypes- -forcing unwilling white masses to adopt them. So the powerful media mogul/company will be cast as the victim, and the usually oppressed grouping and the few vocal advocates will then be cast as the villains--trying to ruin everyone's fun. It's the old "switcheroo" --and its quite old. In 1906 when black new yorkers complained about the Bronx Zoo putting an African "pygmy" in a cage and displaying him as a type of ape, major NY papers dismissed them as overly sensitive complainers. When Birth of a Nation hit the screens and was decried by black advocates as racism, they were also told they were just overreacting. Woodrow Wilson said he didn't understand the uproar over the film, and that the only thing regretable about it was that it was all "true." And this theme has rolled on and on and on--from Vaudeville minstrels right down to our present day "jive-talking" and "gold-toothed" autobots. Sometimes, as in the case of Don Imus or Michael Richards, the complainers get a minor or temporary victory--but they must also endure alot of scorn, being cast as "troublemakers" or "not having a sense of humor," etc. There are two powerful
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
Two comments. One "anthropomorphism" is actually correct, because the robots are given human characteristics--both physical and behavorial. so *all* the robots outside of those that are animals or something, ar anthropomorphized, not just those that are racial stereotypes. Two, i think it comes back as always to quantity. When a film or franchise puts in *positive* black role models to offset the negative ones, then that's one thing. But when all we get is the negative, their power stays and lasts longer, and that's unfortunate. - Original Message - From: "Augustus Augustus" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:42:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues Mike, to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the movie and totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure escapism. the anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never crossed into my mind. i have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' was hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making fun of white geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought sucked, but a few funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. 'step brothers' poking fun at white people. remember how we all laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types picked at, so yes, sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before Sin jumps on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do believe the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants and have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled at that scene! but again, just my opinion. Fate. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: From: sincere1906 Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM Mike, And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention of racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The game usually works like this: black people (or other people who have faced oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv show, etc. The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation that it's absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she will assert they have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who are pointing out the perceived racial slight. Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, will usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity will be told to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their heads and that *they* are the racist ones being preoccupied with race. A few famous black apologists will be rolled out to say the black community should be worried about kids with low hanging pants (the scourge of the afrotocracy! ) or the like instead of a mere movie. Some will even come forth and say, "sure it's a stereotype-- but it's also true, so that makes it alright!" Oh and the Bill Cosby acolytes will naturally blame the rappers--who it seems invented a time machine, went back two centuries, and created all known black stereotypes- -forcing unwilling white masses to adopt them. So the powerful media mogul/company will be cast as the victim, and the usually oppressed grouping and the few vocal advocates will then be cast as the villains--trying to ruin everyone's fun. It's the old "switcheroo" --and its quite old. In 1906 when black new yorkers complained about the Bronx Zoo putting an African "pygmy" in a cage and displaying him as a type of ape, major NY papers dismissed them as overly sensitive complainers. When Birth of a Nation hit the screens and was decried by black advocates as racism, they were also told they were just overreacting. Woodrow Wilson said he didn't understand the uproar over the film, and that the only thing regretable about it was that it was all "true." And this theme has rolled on and on and on--from Vaudeville minstrels right down to our present day "jive-talking" and "gold-toothed" autobots. Sometimes, as in the case of Don Imus or Michael Richards, the complainers get a minor or temporary victory--but they must also endure alot of scorn, being cast as "troublemakers" or "not having a sense of humor," etc. There are two powerful forces at play here--both the usual white dismissal of black or "other" concerns as not really consequential but instead part of some emotional reaction; and secondly the persistent view of black culture/people as the entertaining figures in the w
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
;-D -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:16:12 -0400 From : "Reece Jennings" To : HAHAHAHAHAHA! I totally agree, but it did get a response from you! And as always, a wise response! I don't hate anything or anybody any more for the reasons you gave... _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:59 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues My friend, hate drains and lessens you, so don't. Make fun of it instead... ;-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9onI92OxBHY (hotlinking not available) -[ Received Mail Content ]------ Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:46:16 -0400 >From : "Reece Jennings" To : I hate Harry Potter. No reason. I just wanted to say it out loud. I'm good now... -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Street Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:15 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues I'll see Harry Potter cause I'm a big fan and have never been disappointed by any of the movies. I'm not sure about GI. Joe. The Barroness has no accent so I'm not sure about that movie as a whole. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Augustus Augustus wrote: > > > well, i am still waiting on Harry Potter (go ahead and > laughbut i do have an 8 year old and we (both her and i > and my wife) have all read the books. even caught my 17 year son > reading them too. so i am waiting on that one. also > 2012...the preview before transformers looked great! g. i. joe and the new ice age. so there is still hope my friend! > > Fate. > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Mike Street wrote: > > From: Mike Street > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise > race issues > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:57 PM > > True but those images are all controlled by white men who are making > fun at themselves from all the movies that you named. Our community > continues to allow others to control our images, language, and to > profit from that with out question. From Bob Johnson to Michael Bay. > If we find it unacceptable and we should not support them financially > they will get the message. So again all an opinion and I haven't seen > the movie. But I didn't enjoy the first one at all so I will pass on > this one. > > To me this has been a horrible summer movie season. > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Augustus > Augustus wrote: >> >> >> Mike, >> >> to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the >> movie and totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure >> escapism. the anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never >> crossed into my mind. >> i >> have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' >> was hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making >> fun of white geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought >> sucked, but a few funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. >> 'step brothers' poking fun at white people. remember how we all >> laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types picked at, so yes, >> sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before Sin jumps >> on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do believe >> the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is >> in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants >> and have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled >> at that scene! >> but again, just my opinion. >> >> Fate. >> --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: >> >> From: sincere1906 >> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race >> issues >> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM >> >> Mike, >> >> And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention >> of racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The >> game usually works like this: black people (or other people who have >> faced >> oppression) point out they find something degrading in
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
Funny I had a similar experience. They were putting together a forum website and requested pics from the members. There was quite a stir when they found out I was black, but they were mostly European and Asian so I don't think they had too much experience with blacks or yanks for that matter. I was not only the only black, but I was also the only Yank until a latina joined some time later. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Baxter" wrote: > > Everywhere I've ever posted, I'm presumed to be White until I announce that > I'm of color. One group even demanded that I post an image of myself, along > with objects chosen at random, as proof. > > > > > -[ Received Mail Content ]-- > Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:11:24 - > From : "votomguy" > To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > As a gamer and an anime fan, I often find myself in forums or chat groups where I'm the only black guy in the group. I often keep quiet about being black at first (so they can see that all black people aren't the way that they think). They are often surprised that I'm not what they expected. Of course, I'm not sure that this is because I'm a Yank or because I'm black or both. > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Street wrote: > > > > I don't think its hate at all. It is the systematic characterization > > of African-American culture in mainstream media. If it was a Jewish > > reference that their community found derogatory no one would question > > their rights to protest. And also the reason that if you go over seas > > most people think we are all rappers, hoes, and sell drugs. > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Augustus > > Augustus wrote: > > > > > > > > > Martin, > > > > > > before u dismiss this one too, u need 2 see it. i have been reading all > > > over the net about this and i honestly did not notice it during the movie. > > > sure, i saw the 2 bots, but it never cease 2 amaze me how people will > > > always > > > revert 2 anthropomorphism. the movie was fun. one of those nice summer > > > escapes that i was able 2 sit and enjoy for 2 1/2 hours with nothing but > > > explosions, robots, cars (and some nice concept one's too), plans and > > > humans. throw in some humor from both robots and humans and it was fun. > > > so > > > i really wish people would stop all the hate. i just wanted 2 see what > > > people were saying and i went 2 a couple of websites just 2 see and got > > > into > > > a couple (o.k. 5) typo's with some really simple minded people. i always > > > find it funny how racist people can be on the net when they are hiding in > > > obscurity. s i told them, it's one thing 2 call me out my name when u are > > > wherever, but forget me being a Marine. i gave them my name and location > > > and told them, whenever they are ready, let's get it on. sad 2 say, no > > > takers. > > > > > > Fate. > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > > > From: Martin Baxter > > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 8:46 AM > > > > > > That's another one on the banned-for-life list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -[ Received Mail Content ]-- > > > Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race > > > issues > > > Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:04:50 -0400 > > > From : Mike Street > > > To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com > > > > > > I wasn't that jazzed up to see this cause I hated the first film. This > > > makes me never want to see it cause when I saw Star Wars/Jar Jar Banks > > > I was totally outraged. Until we control our own images these type of > > > things will continue to happen. > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:36 PM, sincere1906 wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > > >> Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > > >> > > >> By SANDY COHEN > > >> > > >> LOS ANGELES Â Harmless comic characters or racist robots? The buzz over > > >> the > > >> summer blockbuster "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" only grew > > >> Wednesday > > >> as some said two jive-talking Chevy characters were racial caricatures. > > >> > > >> Skids and Mudflap, twin robots disguised as compact hatchbacks, > > >> constantly > > >> brawl and bicker in rap-inspired street slang. They're forced to > > >> acknowledge > > >> that they can't read. One has a gold tooth. > > >> > > >> As good guys, they fight alongside the Autobots and are intended to > > >> provide > > >> comic relief. But their traits raise the specter of stereotypes most > > >> notably > > >> seen when Jar Jar Binks, the clumsy, broken-English speaking alien from > > >> "Star Wars: Episode I Â The Phantom Menace," was criticized as a > > >> caricature. > > >> > > >> One fan called the Transformers twins "Jar Jar Bot
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
My friend, hate drains and lessens you, so don't. Make fun of it instead... ;-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9onI92OxBHY (hotlinking not available) -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:46:16 -0400 From : "Reece Jennings" To : I hate Harry Potter. No reason. I just wanted to say it out loud. I'm good now... -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Street Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:15 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues I'll see Harry Potter cause I'm a big fan and have never been disappointed by any of the movies. I'm not sure about GI. Joe. The Barroness has no accent so I'm not sure about that movie as a whole. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Augustus Augustus wrote: > > > well, i am still waiting on Harry Potter (go ahead and > laughbut i do have an 8 year old and we (both her and i > and my wife) have all read the books. even caught my 17 year son > reading them too. so i am waiting on that one. also > 2012...the preview before transformers looked great! g. i. joe and the new ice age. so there is still hope my friend! > > Fate. > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Mike Street wrote: > > From: Mike Street > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise > race issues > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:57 PM > > True but those images are all controlled by white men who are making > fun at themselves from all the movies that you named. Our community > continues to allow others to control our images, language, and to > profit from that with out question. From Bob Johnson to Michael Bay. > If we find it unacceptable and we should not support them financially > they will get the message. So again all an opinion and I haven't seen > the movie. But I didn't enjoy the first one at all so I will pass on > this one. > > To me this has been a horrible summer movie season. > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Augustus > Augustus wrote: >> >> >> Mike, >> >> to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the >> movie and totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure >> escapism. the anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never >> crossed into my mind. >> i >> have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' >> was hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making >> fun of white geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought >> sucked, but a few funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. >> 'step brothers' poking fun at white people. remember how we all >> laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types picked at, so yes, >> sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before Sin jumps >> on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do believe >> the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is >> in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants >> and have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled >> at that scene! >> but again, just my opinion. >> >> Fate. >> --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: >> >> From: sincere1906 >> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race >> issues >> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM >> >> Mike, >> >> And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention >> of racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The >> game usually works like this: black people (or other people who have >> faced >> oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv >> show, etc. >> The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation >> that it's absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she >> will assert they have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who >> are pointing out the perceived racial slight. >> >> Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, >> will usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity >> will be told to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their >> heads and that *they* are the racist ones being preoccupied with >> race. A fe
[RE][scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
Everywhere I've ever posted, I'm presumed to be White until I announce that I'm of color. One group even demanded that I post an image of myself, along with objects chosen at random, as proof. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:11:24 - From : "votomguy" To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com As a gamer and an anime fan, I often find myself in forums or chat groups where I'm the only black guy in the group. I often keep quiet about being black at first (so they can see that all black people aren't the way that they think). They are often surprised that I'm not what they expected. Of course, I'm not sure that this is because I'm a Yank or because I'm black or both. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Street wrote: > > I don't think its hate at all. It is the systematic characterization > of African-American culture in mainstream media. If it was a Jewish > reference that their community found derogatory no one would question > their rights to protest. And also the reason that if you go over seas > most people think we are all rappers, hoes, and sell drugs. > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Augustus > Augustus wrote: > > > > > > Martin, > > > > before u dismiss this one too, u need 2 see it. i have been reading all > > over the net about this and i honestly did not notice it during the movie. > > sure, i saw the 2 bots, but it never cease 2 amaze me how people will always > > revert 2 anthropomorphism. the movie was fun. one of those nice summer > > escapes that i was able 2 sit and enjoy for 2 1/2 hours with nothing but > > explosions, robots, cars (and some nice concept one's too), plans and > > humans. throw in some humor from both robots and humans and it was fun. so > > i really wish people would stop all the hate. i just wanted 2 see what > > people were saying and i went 2 a couple of websites just 2 see and got into > > a couple (o.k. 5) typo's with some really simple minded people. i always > > find it funny how racist people can be on the net when they are hiding in > > obscurity. s i told them, it's one thing 2 call me out my name when u are > > wherever, but forget me being a Marine. i gave them my name and location > > and told them, whenever they are ready, let's get it on. sad 2 say, no > > takers. > > > > Fate. > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > From: Martin Baxter > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 8:46 AM > > > > That's another one on the banned-for-life list. > > > > > > > > > > -[ Received Mail Content ]-- > > Subject : Re: [scifinoir2] Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > > Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:04:50 -0400 > > From : Mike Street > > To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com > > > > I wasn't that jazzed up to see this cause I hated the first film. This > > makes me never want to see it cause when I saw Star Wars/Jar Jar Banks > > I was totally outraged. Until we control our own images these type of > > things will continue to happen. > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:36 PM, sincere1906 wrote: > >> > >> > >> Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > >> Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > >> > >> By SANDY COHEN > >> > >> LOS ANGELES Harmless comic characters or racist robots? The buzz over > >> the > >> summer blockbuster "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" only grew > >> Wednesday > >> as some said two jive-talking Chevy characters were racial caricatures. > >> > >> Skids and Mudflap, twin robots disguised as compact hatchbacks, constantly > >> brawl and bicker in rap-inspired street slang. They're forced to > >> acknowledge > >> that they can't read. One has a gold tooth. > >> > >> As good guys, they fight alongside the Autobots and are intended to > >> provide > >> comic relief. But their traits raise the specter of stereotypes most > >> notably > >> seen when Jar Jar Binks, the clumsy, broken-English speaking alien from > >> "Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace," was criticized as a > >> caricature. > >> > >> One fan called the Transformers twins "Jar Jar Bots" in a blog post > >> online. > >> > >> Todd Herrold, who watched the movie in New York City, called the > >> characters > >> "outrageous. " > >> > >> "It's one thing when robot cars are racial stereotypes, " he said, "but > >> the > >> movie also had a bucktoothed black guy who is briefly in one scene who's > >> also a stereotype." > >> > >> "They're like the fools," said 18-year-old Nicholas Govede, also of New > >> York > >> City. "The comic relief in a degrading way." > >> > >> Not all fans were offended. Twin brothers Jason and William Garcia, 18, > >> who > >> saw the movie in Miami, said they related to the characters not their > >> illiteracy, but their bickering. > >> > >>
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
I hate Harry Potter. No reason. I just wanted to say it out loud. I'm good now... -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Street Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:15 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues I'll see Harry Potter cause I'm a big fan and have never been disappointed by any of the movies. I'm not sure about GI. Joe. The Barroness has no accent so I'm not sure about that movie as a whole. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Augustus Augustus wrote: > > > well, i am still waiting on Harry Potter (go ahead and > laughbut i do have an 8 year old and we (both her and i > and my wife) have all read the books. even caught my 17 year son > reading them too. so i am waiting on that one. also > 2012...the preview before transformers looked great! g. i. joe and the new ice age. so there is still hope my friend! > > Fate. > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Mike Street wrote: > > From: Mike Street > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise > race issues > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:57 PM > > True but those images are all controlled by white men who are making > fun at themselves from all the movies that you named. Our community > continues to allow others to control our images, language, and to > profit from that with out question. From Bob Johnson to Michael Bay. > If we find it unacceptable and we should not support them financially > they will get the message. So again all an opinion and I haven't seen > the movie. But I didn't enjoy the first one at all so I will pass on > this one. > > To me this has been a horrible summer movie season. > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Augustus > Augustus wrote: >> >> >> Mike, >> >> to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the >> movie and totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure >> escapism. the anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never >> crossed into my mind. >> i >> have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' >> was hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making >> fun of white geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought >> sucked, but a few funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. >> 'step brothers' poking fun at white people. remember how we all >> laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types picked at, so yes, >> sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before Sin jumps >> on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do believe >> the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is >> in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants >> and have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled >> at that scene! >> but again, just my opinion. >> >> Fate. >> --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: >> >> From: sincere1906 >> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race >> issues >> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM >> >> Mike, >> >> And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention >> of racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The >> game usually works like this: black people (or other people who have >> faced >> oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv >> show, etc. >> The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation >> that it's absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she >> will assert they have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who >> are pointing out the perceived racial slight. >> >> Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, >> will usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity >> will be told to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their >> heads and that *they* are the racist ones being preoccupied with >> race. A few famous black apologists will be rolled out to say the >> black community should be worried about kids with low hanging pants >> (the scourge of the afrotocracy! ) or the like instead of a mere >> movie. Some will even come forth and say, "sure it's a stereotype-- >> but it's also true, so that makes it alright!" Oh and the
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
I'll see Harry Potter cause I'm a big fan and have never been disappointed by any of the movies. I'm not sure about GI. Joe. The Barroness has no accent so I'm not sure about that movie as a whole. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Augustus Augustus wrote: > > > well, i am still waiting on Harry Potter (go ahead and laughbut > i do have an 8 year old and we (both her and i and my wife) have all read > the books. even caught my 17 year son reading them too. so i am waiting on > that one. also 2012...the preview before transformers looked > great! g. i. joe and the new ice age. so there is still hope my friend! > > Fate. > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Mike Street wrote: > > From: Mike Street > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race > issues > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:57 PM > > True but those images are all controlled by white men who are making > fun at themselves from all the movies that you named. Our community > continues to allow others to control our images, language, and to > profit from that with out question. From Bob Johnson to Michael Bay. > If we find it unacceptable and we should not support them financially > they will get the message. So again all an opinion and I haven't seen > the movie. But I didn't enjoy the first one at all so I will pass on > this one. > > To me this has been a horrible summer movie season. > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Augustus > Augustus wrote: >> >> >> Mike, >> >> to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the movie >> and >> totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure escapism. the >> anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never crossed into my mind. >> i >> have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' was >> hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making fun of >> white >> geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought sucked, but a few >> funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. 'step brothers' poking fun >> at >> white people. remember how we all laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all >> types >> picked at, so yes, sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, >> before >> Sin jumps on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do >> believe the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who >> is >> in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants and >> have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled at that >> scene! >> but again, just my opinion. >> >> Fate. >> --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: >> >> From: sincere1906 >> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues >> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM >> >> Mike, >> >> And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention of >> racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The game >> usually works like this: black people (or other people who have faced >> oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv show, >> etc. >> The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation that >> it's >> absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she will assert >> they >> have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who are pointing out the >> perceived racial slight. >> >> Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, will >> usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity will be >> told >> to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their heads and that *they* >> are the racist ones being preoccupied with race. A few famous black >> apologists will be rolled out to say the black community should be worried >> about kids with low hanging pants (the scourge of the afrotocracy! ) or >> the >> like instead of a mere movie. Some will even come forth and say, "sure >> it's >> a stereotype-- but it's also true, so that makes it alright!" Oh and the >> Bill Cosby acolytes will naturally blame the rappers--who it seems >> invented >> a time machine, went back two centuries, and created all known black >> stereotypes- -forcing unwilling white masses to adopt them. >> >> So the powerful media mogul/company will be cast as the victim, and the >> usually oppr
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
well, i am still waiting on Harry Potter (go ahead and laughbut i do have an 8 year old and we (both her and i and my wife) have all read the books. even caught my 17 year son reading them too. so i am waiting on that one. also 2012...the preview before transformers looked great! g. i. joe and the new ice age. so there is still hope my friend! Fate. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Mike Street wrote: From: Mike Street Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:57 PM True but those images are all controlled by white men who are making fun at themselves from all the movies that you named. Our community continues to allow others to control our images, language, and to profit from that with out question. From Bob Johnson to Michael Bay. If we find it unacceptable and we should not support them financially they will get the message. So again all an opinion and I haven't seen the movie. But I didn't enjoy the first one at all so I will pass on this one. To me this has been a horrible summer movie season. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Augustus Augustus wrote: > > > Mike, > > to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the movie and > totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure escapism. the > anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never crossed into my mind. i > have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' was > hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making fun of white > geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought sucked, but a few > funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. 'step brothers' poking fun at > white people. remember how we all laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types > picked at, so yes, sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before > Sin jumps on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do > believe the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is > in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants and > have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled at that > scene! > but again, just my opinion. > > Fate. > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: > > From: sincere1906 > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM > > Mike, > > And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention of > racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The game > usually works like this: black people (or other people who have faced > oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv show, etc. > The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation that it's > absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she will assert they > have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who are pointing out the > perceived racial slight. > > Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, will > usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity will be told > to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their heads and that *they* > are the racist ones being preoccupied with race. A few famous black > apologists will be rolled out to say the black community should be worried > about kids with low hanging pants (the scourge of the afrotocracy! ) or the > like instead of a mere movie. Some will even come forth and say, "sure it's > a stereotype-- but it's also true, so that makes it alright!" Oh and the > Bill Cosby acolytes will naturally blame the rappers--who it seems invented > a time machine, went back two centuries, and created all known black > stereotypes- -forcing unwilling white masses to adopt them. > > So the powerful media mogul/company will be cast as the victim, and the > usually oppressed grouping and the few vocal advocates will then be cast as > the villains--trying to ruin everyone's fun. It's the old "switcheroo" --and > its quite old. > > In 1906 when black new yorkers complained about the Bronx Zoo putting an > African "pygmy" in a cage and displaying him as a type of ape, major NY > papers dismissed them as overly sensitive complainers. When Birth of a > Nation hit the screens and was decried by black advocates as racism, they > were also told they were just overreacting. Woodrow Wilson said he didn't > understand the uproar over the film, and that the only thing regretable > about it was that it was all "true." > > And this theme has rolled on and
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
True but those images are all controlled by white men who are making fun at themselves from all the movies that you named. Our community continues to allow others to control our images, language, and to profit from that with out question. From Bob Johnson to Michael Bay. If we find it unacceptable and we should not support them financially they will get the message. So again all an opinion and I haven't seen the movie. But I didn't enjoy the first one at all so I will pass on this one. To me this has been a horrible summer movie season. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Augustus Augustus wrote: > > > Mike, > > to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the movie and > totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure escapism. the > anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never crossed into my mind. i > have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' was > hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making fun of white > geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought sucked, but a few > funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. 'step brothers' poking fun at > white people. remember how we all laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types > picked at, so yes, sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before > Sin jumps on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do > believe the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is > in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants and > have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled at that > scene! > but again, just my opinion. > > Fate. > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: > > From: sincere1906 > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM > > Mike, > > And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention of > racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The game > usually works like this: black people (or other people who have faced > oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv show, etc. > The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation that it's > absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she will assert they > have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who are pointing out the > perceived racial slight. > > Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, will > usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity will be told > to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their heads and that *they* > are the racist ones being preoccupied with race. A few famous black > apologists will be rolled out to say the black community should be worried > about kids with low hanging pants (the scourge of the afrotocracy! ) or the > like instead of a mere movie. Some will even come forth and say, "sure it's > a stereotype-- but it's also true, so that makes it alright!" Oh and the > Bill Cosby acolytes will naturally blame the rappers--who it seems invented > a time machine, went back two centuries, and created all known black > stereotypes- -forcing unwilling white masses to adopt them. > > So the powerful media mogul/company will be cast as the victim, and the > usually oppressed grouping and the few vocal advocates will then be cast as > the villains--trying to ruin everyone's fun. It's the old "switcheroo" --and > its quite old. > > In 1906 when black new yorkers complained about the Bronx Zoo putting an > African "pygmy" in a cage and displaying him as a type of ape, major NY > papers dismissed them as overly sensitive complainers. When Birth of a > Nation hit the screens and was decried by black advocates as racism, they > were also told they were just overreacting. Woodrow Wilson said he didn't > understand the uproar over the film, and that the only thing regretable > about it was that it was all "true." > > And this theme has rolled on and on and on--from Vaudeville minstrels right > down to our present day "jive-talking" and "gold-toothed" autobots. > Sometimes, as in the case of Don Imus or Michael Richards, the complainers > get a minor or temporary victory--but they must also endure alot of scorn, > being cast as "troublemakers" or "not having a sense of humor," etc. > > There are two powerful forces at play here--both the usual white dismissal > of black or "other" concerns as not really consequential but instead part of > some emotional reaction; and secondly the persistent view of black > culture/people as the entertaining figures in the white imagination. > > Of note, it's never always that cut-n-dry of course--as the first person who > I heard call these two figures "Amos n Andy offensive stereotypes, " was a > white movie reviewer. More power to him... > > Sin / Black Galactus > > --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Mike Street wrote: >> >> I wasn't that jazzed up
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues
Mike, to go further with what Sin just wrote, like i said, i watched the movie and totally enjoyed it. it was a good 2 1/2 hours of pure escapism. the anthropomorphism that i talked about earlier never crossed into my mind. i have seen movies that poked fun at white people too. 'Delta Farce' was hilarious to me. making fun of 'rednecks'. 'Superbad' making fun of white geeks. stoner movie 'Pineapple Express (which i thought sucked, but a few funny lines)' poked fun at stoner white guys. 'step brothers' poking fun at white people. remember how we all laughed at Ricky Bobby? we see all types picked at, so yes, sometimes you have to look pass the obvious. now, before Sin jumps on me, i am not making an apology 4 the characters, but i do believe the people are looking too hard at something. john turturo (who is in the movie) even makes fun of his self when she pulls off his pants and have on a S7 jock strap. we (the people in the theater) howled at that scene! but again, just my opinion. Fate. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, sincere1906 wrote: From: sincere1906 Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:44 AM Mike, And as you can guess, there is already uproar over the mere mention of racism or at the least racial insensitivity and stereotyping. The game usually works like this: black people (or other people who have faced oppression) point out they find something degrading in a film, tv show, etc. The maker of the film balks, asserting with righteous indignation that it's absolutely nonsense. With an air of white privilege he/she will assert they have no bias, and then turn the tables on those who are pointing out the perceived racial slight. Most of America, ever eager to dismiss black or "other" grievances, will usually chime in. Those complaining about racial insensitivity will be told to "get over it." They'll be told it's all in their heads and that *they* are the racist ones being preoccupied with race. A few famous black apologists will be rolled out to say the black community should be worried about kids with low hanging pants (the scourge of the afrotocracy! ) or the like instead of a mere movie. Some will even come forth and say, "sure it's a stereotype-- but it's also true, so that makes it alright!" Oh and the Bill Cosby acolytes will naturally blame the rappers--who it seems invented a time machine, went back two centuries, and created all known black stereotypes- -forcing unwilling white masses to adopt them. So the powerful media mogul/company will be cast as the victim, and the usually oppressed grouping and the few vocal advocates will then be cast as the villains--trying to ruin everyone's fun. It's the old "switcheroo" --and its quite old. In 1906 when black new yorkers complained about the Bronx Zoo putting an African "pygmy" in a cage and displaying him as a type of ape, major NY papers dismissed them as overly sensitive complainers. When Birth of a Nation hit the screens and was decried by black advocates as racism, they were also told they were just overreacting. Woodrow Wilson said he didn't understand the uproar over the film, and that the only thing regretable about it was that it was all "true." And this theme has rolled on and on and on--from Vaudeville minstrels right down to our present day "jive-talking" and "gold-toothed" autobots. Sometimes, as in the case of Don Imus or Michael Richards, the complainers get a minor or temporary victory--but they must also endure alot of scorn, being cast as "troublemakers" or "not having a sense of humor," etc. There are two powerful forces at play here--both the usual white dismissal of black or "other" concerns as not really consequential but instead part of some emotional reaction; and secondly the persistent view of black culture/people as the entertaining figures in the white imagination. Of note, it's never always that cut-n-dry of course--as the first person who I heard call these two figures "Amos n Andy offensive stereotypes, " was a white movie reviewer. More power to him... Sin / Black Galactus --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Mike Street wrote: > > I wasn't that jazzed up to see this cause I hated the first film. This > makes me never want to see it cause when I saw Star Wars/Jar Jar Banks > I was totally outraged. Until we control our own images these type of > things will continue to happen. > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:36 PM, sincere1906< sincere1906@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > > Jive-talking twin Transformers raise race issues > > > > By SANDY COHEN > > > > LOS ANGELES – Harmless comic characters or racist robots? The buzz over the > > summer blockbuster "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" only grew Wednesday > > as s
