Re: [scots-l] Tempi and other not so dumb questions
I find your observations interesting, especially in that a march usually listed as a retreat like "Battle of the Somme" seems to want-- at least for me-- to move along a bit. I guess these are mostly Amercan tunes, but how do you feel about "rattlers"--which are sometimes noted as retreats? "Morgan's Rattler" also seems to be kind of speedy, but maybe i'm playing it wrong. CliffA The retreat march is not, as Stan suggests, necessarily a march time tune which would be marched to - as often as not it was played as part of the evening ritual in the military camp as day duties gave way to night ones. It was not linked to the military manoeuvre of retreating in or from battle but was linked to the idea of refuge and safety in the camp. Some contemporary players, assuming that the retreat march is to be marched to, crank it up to a kind of swaggering, kilt swinging, tempo which robs the airs of the inherent melancholy quality which many possess. > > I hope this helps illustrate my earlier point. > > Stuart Eydmann __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Tempi and other not so dumb questions
Forgive my ignorance, but what does the word "birl" mean? Thanks. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Tempi and other not so dumb questions
Stan wrote: "Marches should be played at marching speed. Watch people going across the Millennium bridge. They are all going at more or less the same speed. As you play pretend you are marching home after you have escaped a bloody, painful death in a battle you were forced to go to avoid your house being burned. If you are only a few miles from your loved ones, and you see the hills of home you'll start to swing into a retreat march, and my won't the tune go, and be just "right"." This is, in fact, a good illustration of my suggestion that there are no universal right or wrongs in relation to tempi in Scottish traditional music. Take the march, for example. Functional military marching has always been influenced by the conditions under foot and the situation in hand and therefore the prescribed tempi varied considerably in time and place. The introduction of metalled roads in Scotland, for instance, coincided with the rise of the quickstep and quickest step. Then there were ceremonial marches which had there own requirements. In piping the great period of march composition was not for marching at all but for recital and competition performance with many tunes never intended for marching. The adoption of march tunes into the Scottish social dance tradition further complicated the situation and added to the sheer variety of tempi which can be employed. The retreat march is not, as Stan suggests, necessarily a march time tune which would be marched to - as often as not it was played as part of the evening ritual in the military camp as day duties gave way to night ones. It was not linked to the military manoeuvre of retreating in or from battle but was linked to the idea of refuge and safety in the camp. Some contemporary players, assuming that the retreat march is to be marched to, crank it up to a kind of swaggering, kilt swinging, tempo which robs the airs of the inherent melancholy quality which many possess. I hope this helps illustrate my earlier point. Stuart Eydmann Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Tempi and other not so dumb questions
Kate responded on my suggestion that confronted with printed fiddle music some classical musicians see the grace notes and immediately strive to give them an emphasis and value which they do not deserve or require with unfortunate consequences for the music stating: "I have to disagree here because in Cape Breton fiddling there is much use of emphasized grace notes with real note value. Or, I should say that one hears this type of grace note often anyway." I don't think were are disagreeing too much here. My comments were not aimed at the music I have heard from Cape Breton or most traditional fiddling this side of the pond but with that of some classically trained, score-centric fiddlers (there are quite a few here) whose training and experience does not encourage listening to/observing the tradition. If, in fast dance music, the traditional Cape Breton fiddlers are using grace notes which rob the melody notes of time they are doing so in the context of other traditional musical factors (which are also denied the classical player - such as the internal rhythmic ones discussed by Alexander) which taken together produce the special flavour/character/style which makes the tradition what it is. As Kate says, the traditional fiddler probably does their own thing anyway and I would go on to suggest that some do not have a mental concept (I'm struggling for the correct terms here!) of the music as mapped out in the conventional notation and that for them grace notes are an integral part of the melody. This contrasts with the conventional Western convention of grace notes as additions or emebelishments to the given melody. I am glad to note that transcriptions are being made of Cape Breton fiddling. There has been hardly any real transcription of fiddling in Scotland to date and next to nothing going on at present. There are no collections based on transcriptions from players most contemporary publications simply recycling settings from earlier publications. This in part, is due to the general lack of academic interest in Scottish fiddle here and the unfortunate opinion abroad in Scottish music circles that the study and analysis of the music will debase it somehow. Any other thoughts? Stuart Eydmann Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
