Re: [Scottish] ScotLUG 2004
If we wish to continue advocacy and to be taken seriously can we have some human names rather than the juvenile handles. I'll be there every month if that's what it takes to get some organization back into SLUG. Tony Dyer Original Message From: Ben Thorp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, Dec-22-2003 9:13 AM Subject: [Scottish] ScotLUG 2004 Following a discussion on Thursday night in the Counting House, we now have some offers of talks available, and I would like to propose the following calendar: January - Bring your favourite Linux book/gadget; time to show off all those cool things you got for Christmas, and inspire some geek envy. February - Neuro on Smoothwall March - gordonjcp on encryption (aimed at all levels) April - Easter Quiz (bigkevmcd? up for this again) May - Gaming on Linux (volunteers to demo some games?) June - Me (mrBen) on something - maybe Python or MagicPoint, or something like that? In addition, Tony (Dyer) has offered on the website to do a short beginners corner slot each month, and I suggest we take him up on this for any months he is present. Plus the usual Q+A session will be run. Also, Willie will try and get in contact with Bob Kerr (the guy responsible for getting OSS into libraries) and see if he is able to come and give a talk on one of the months (in which case the schedule above will change) As a point of note, the following issues were also raised: 1. Each week does not necessarily need to be a 'talk', nor does it necessarily need to be the realm of a single individual. We want everyone to feel that they are able to contribute to what happens. If you are comfortable doing a 'talk' or presentation, then that's fine, but if you would rather do things a little bit differently, then that's also fine. 2. The idea of a committee is one that brings fear into the heart of many, most of whom have served on committee's until they're blue in the face. Most open source projects successfully run without a committee, but rather by peer review and discussion. The feeling on Thursday was that this was the way forward, and that we should be able to organise ourselves without a rigid organisational structure. None of this is set in stone, but at least we now have something to go on. Please can those on IRC ensure that any additional discussion is also referenced to the list for completeness sake. Ben Thorp ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] ScotLUG 2004
Please note in the email I sign it with my known name of Tony Dyer and use in IRC WIlliam Nicol DYer i.e. my initials of my given names. What's your store? Original Message From: Kyle Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: SLUG-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, Dec-22-2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Scottish] ScotLUG 2004 Is that coming from the person who comes on IRC as 'Windy'?... Kyle Tony Dyer wrote: If we wish to continue advocacy and to be taken seriously can we have some human names rather than the juvenile handles. I'll be there every month if that's what it takes to get some organization back into SLUG. Tony Dyer Original Message From: Ben Thorp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, Dec-22-2003 9:13 AM Subject: [Scottish] ScotLUG 2004 Following a discussion on Thursday night in the Counting House, we now have some offers of talks available, and I would like to propose the following calendar: January - Bring your favourite Linux book/gadget; time to show off all those cool things you got for Christmas, and inspire some geek envy. February - Neuro on Smoothwall March - gordonjcp on encryption (aimed at all levels) April - Easter Quiz (bigkevmcd? up for this again) May - Gaming on Linux (volunteers to demo some games?) June - Me (mrBen) on something - maybe Python or MagicPoint, or something like that? In addition, Tony (Dyer) has offered on the website to do a short beginners corner slot each month, and I suggest we take him up on this for any months he is present. Plus the usual Q+A session will be run. Also, Willie will try and get in contact with Bob Kerr (the guy responsible for getting OSS into libraries) and see if he is able to come and give a talk on one of the months (in which case the schedule above will change) As a point of note, the following issues were also raised: 1. Each week does not necessarily need to be a 'talk', nor does it necessarily need to be the realm of a single individual. We want everyone to feel that they are able to contribute to what happens. If you are comfortable doing a 'talk' or presentation, then that's fine, but if you would rather do things a little bit differently, then that's also fine. 2. The idea of a committee is one that brings fear into the heart of many, most of whom have served on committee's until they're blue in the face. Most open source projects successfully run without a committee, but rather by peer review and discussion. The feeling on Thursday was that this was the way forward, and that we should be able to organise ourselves without a rigid organisational structure. None of this is set in stone, but at least we now have something to go on. Please can those on IRC ensure that any additional discussion is also referenced to the list for completeness sake. Ben Thorp ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
[Scottish] Forming New LUG
I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wish those who continue with SLUG every success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my co-creation. Tony Dyer -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. First class web hosting from 11 at http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954 ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Forming New LUG
I'll be posting the details over the festive season to, what I consider an appropriate medium, i.e. a website. I'll happily let the list know in due course. Nice to read your interest in the plans of the proposed UG. Tony Dyer In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Calum Morrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Tony Dyer wrote: I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wish those who continue with SLUG every success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my co-creation. Tony Dyer What's the addy for the new IRC channel? I'd like to find out what your plans are. -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. First class web hosting from 11 at http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954 ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3
I don't see what you are getting at. You want to move SLUG one way, I don't agree so I do my own thing. Is that not what freedom is all about? Tony Dyer Original Message From: kenny scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, Dec-22-2003 11:03 PM Subject: [Scottish] Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 in reply to tonys remarks. tony, your being selfish. your basically saying I want it this way or I'm leaving. Thats not the way to behave. Try and resolve the situation, in another way instead of storming off. It seems pointless to do so. there must be away to reslive this without this, find a happy middle groupnd, compromise, is the key word here. On Mon, 2003-12-22 at 22:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send Scottish mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Scottish digest... Today's Topics: 1. Forming New LUG (Tony Dyer) 2. Re: Forming New LUG (Calum Morrell) 3. IRC Debate logs (Kyle Gordon) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:31:41 + From: Tony Dyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Scottish] Forming New LUG To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wish those who continue with SLUG every success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my co-creation. Tony Dyer -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. First class web hosting from 11 at http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954 -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:37:35 + From: Calum Morrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Scottish] Forming New LUG To: SLUG-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Tony Dyer wrote: I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wish those who continue with SLUG every success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my co-creation. Tony Dyer What's the addy for the new IRC channel? I'd like to find out what your plans are. ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] IRC Debate logs
Nice to see how you act when someone challenges your views. So your colours are showed true here. Tony Dyer. In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kyle Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes For those that care, we have recently had a heated debate on #scotlug about the future and the direction of SLUG as a group. I am posting the logs for completeness and so that those who are not on IRC or have no interest in it can see what would otherwise be called 'behind the scenes' It's all open to your interpratation. The view presented here are the views of each individual person, which may or may not be a shared view of the situation - windy [EMAIL PROTECTED] has joined #scotlug 21:07 caagaard bagpuss_thecat, allways for you :-) 21:07 bagpuss_thecat evening windy 21:08 windy evening all 21:10 bagpuss_thecat well, it _was_ busy in here until about 4 minutes ago 21:10 tam interesting post to the list that was 21:10 tam bagpuss_thecat: well am trying to work...but more keep on coming in and i get bored as i see the queue getting more red 21:11 bagpuss_thecat an archive of talks would be nice, and advertising of the mailing list would also be helpful 21:12 bagpuss_thecat I would offer to organise that stuff, but don't have the time. And the last time I attempted to organise anything for scotlug I got slated for 'taking control' and not 'asking my peers' etc 21:12 windy My ears must have been burning 21:12 bagpuss_thecat tam: work... :-/ 21:13 bagpuss_thecat windy: indeed 21:13 windy so whats the gen? 21:13 bagpuss_thecat tam: I have damned american everywhere wanting answers for a 3 hour outage earlier on today 21:13 bagpuss_thecat a/american/americans/ 21:13 bagpuss_thecat windy: 'the gen'? 21:13 tam bagpuss_thecat: i've got 6 radiance cases in my queue 21:14 windy The thoughts? 21:14 tam i've done around 15 since i came in 21:14 bagpuss_thecat I don't have a terribly good grasp of abbreviations or acronyms :-p 21:14 bagpuss_thecat aah 21:14 tam make that 7 cases now 21:15 windy We need to become something more than we have been of late or we should stop kidding ourselves on. 21:16 bagpuss_thecat well, I speak for myself when I say that a comittee would be nice and would bring some order to the group. Unfortunately some believe that a committe is just the beginning of a big formal group, etc, etc, and is moving scotlug away from it's roots 21:16 bagpuss_thecat s/it's/its/ 21:16 bagpuss_thecat its roots being a loosely joined group of people with a common interest 21:16 windy If we want a drinking club or a meal club then form one of those 21:17 windy with a common interest in Linux and open source not drinking or eating 21:17 windy About growing as a group 21:17 bagpuss_thecat yes 21:18 sjmurdoch edward: IBM R31 - so yes, it would seem like you are correct 21:18 bagpuss_thecat I'm at a bit of a loss really 21:18 windy Some of us are in it for the long term not just passing through or being cool or fashionable 21:18 bagpuss_thecat everyone seems keen to talk and discuss, but noone wants to take on the responsibility 21:19 bagpuss_thecat tbh, I don't know of many who have just passed through 21:19 tam what is cool or fashionable about it? 21:19 tam windy: ^ 21:20 windy I've done it for four year and in spite of my premature demise as written by Mr Ben I now have the time and inclination to make a comeback 21:20 * Neil_ moves his idling stool closer 21:20 kenny so how would you see the committee being formed based on you needed a quarim of 5 people to hav ea meeting? what roles would you need? 21:21 tam kenny: a great speaker like you for a start 21:21 kenny im just good with the ladies tam 21:21 tam could give a talk oon how you got your soundcard working 21:21 bagpuss_thecat kenny: with some commas, it actually makes sense :-p 21:21 tam kenny: well we know that is just an exageration as you did give her 20 quid 21:21 kenny I did not give her 20 quid 21:21 bagpuss_thecat ladies, later 21:22 kenny hehe 21:22 tam kenny: IOU ? 21:22 radman anyone used a sharp zaurus? 21:22 radman # 21:22 radman woopsey 21:22 Neil_ first point of order, bigkevmcd recommned it might be a good idea to put an 'offical' scotlug presence into this: http://www.icm-computer.co.uk/events/events_current.asp 21:22 windy That is a matter of the individuals perception of a thing, it's when it comes to giving time and resources you seperate the commited from the fop 21:22 kenny but a committee needs a structure, the roles need to have a palce within the comittee, I mean is a treasurer needed? waht would the treasurers trole be? what is the need, its needs to be put down in a constitution 21:22 Neil_ but as we can't really define an offical scotlug presence at the moment we're a bit fscked, so here is a goal. 21:23 kenny what was the original goal of scotlug when it was launched? 21:23 bagpuss_thecat Neil_: looks good, and I like the idea 21:24 windy Why dont you announce
Re: [Scottish] IRC Debate logs
What about log sessions from other times? You are being selective to suit your case! Tony Dyer Original Message From: Kyle Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, Dec-22-2003 10:49 PM Subject: [Scottish] IRC Debate logs For those that care, we have recently had a heated debate on #scotlug about the future and the direction of SLUG as a group. I am posting the logs for completeness and so that those who are not on IRC or have no interest in it can see what would otherwise be called 'behind the scenes' It's all open to your interpratation. The view presented here are the views of each individual person, which may or may not be a shared view of the situation - windy [EMAIL PROTECTED] has joined #scotlug 21:07 caagaard bagpuss_thecat, allways for you :-) 21:07 bagpuss_thecat evening windy 21:08 windy evening all 21:10 bagpuss_thecat well, it _was_ busy in here until about 4 minutes ago 21:10 tam interesting post to the list that was 21:10 tam bagpuss_thecat: well am trying to work...but more keep on coming in and i get bored as i see the queue getting more red 21:11 bagpuss_thecat an archive of talks would be nice, and advertising of the mailing list would also be helpful 21:12 bagpuss_thecat I would offer to organise that stuff, but don't have the time. And the last time I attempted to organise anything for scotlug I got slated for 'taking control' and not 'asking my peers' etc 21:12 windy My ears must have been burning 21:12 bagpuss_thecat tam: work... :-/ 21:13 bagpuss_thecat windy: indeed 21:13 windy so whats the gen? 21:13 bagpuss_thecat tam: I have damned american everywhere wanting answers for a 3 hour outage earlier on today 21:13 bagpuss_thecat a/american/americans/ 21:13 bagpuss_thecat windy: 'the gen'? 21:13 tam bagpuss_thecat: i've got 6 radiance cases in my queue 21:14 windy The thoughts? 21:14 tam i've done around 15 since i came in 21:14 bagpuss_thecat I don't have a terribly good grasp of abbreviations or acronyms :-p 21:14 bagpuss_thecat aah 21:14 tam make that 7 cases now 21:15 windy We need to become something more than we have been of late or we should stop kidding ourselves on. 21:16 bagpuss_thecat well, I speak for myself when I say that a comittee would be nice and would bring some order to the group. Unfortunately some believe that a committe is just the beginning of a big formal group, etc, etc, and is moving scotlug away from it's roots 21:16 bagpuss_thecat s/it's/its/ 21:16 bagpuss_thecat its roots being a loosely joined group of people with a common interest 21:16 windy If we want a drinking club or a meal club then form one of those 21:17 windy with a common interest in Linux and open source not drinking or eating 21:17 windy About growing as a group 21:17 bagpuss_thecat yes 21:18 sjmurdoch edward: IBM R31 - so yes, it would seem like you are correct 21:18 bagpuss_thecat I'm at a bit of a loss really 21:18 windy Some of us are in it for the long term not just passing through or being cool or fashionable 21:18 bagpuss_thecat everyone seems keen to talk and discuss, but noone wants to take on the responsibility 21:19 bagpuss_thecat tbh, I don't know of many who have just passed through 21:19 tam what is cool or fashionable about it? 21:19 tam windy: ^ 21:20 windy I've done it for four year and in spite of my premature demise as written by Mr Ben I now have the time and inclination to make a comeback 21:20 * Neil_ moves his idling stool closer 21:20 kenny so how would you see the committee being formed based on you needed a quarim of 5 people to hav ea meeting? what roles would you need? 21:21 tam kenny: a great speaker like you for a start 21:21 kenny im just good with the ladies tam 21:21 tam could give a talk oon how you got your soundcard working 21:21 bagpuss_thecat kenny: with some commas, it actually makes sense :-p 21:21 tam kenny: well we know that is just an exageration as you did give her 20 quid 21:21 kenny I did not give her 20 quid 21:21 bagpuss_thecat ladies, later 21:22 kenny hehe 21:22 tam kenny: IOU ? 21:22 radman anyone used a sharp zaurus? 21:22 radman # 21:22 radman woopsey 21:22 Neil_ first point of order, bigkevmcd recommned it might be a good idea to put an 'offical' scotlug presence into this: http://www.icm-computer.co.uk/events/events_current.asp 21:22 windy That is a matter of the individuals perception of a thing, it's when it comes to giving time and resources you seperate the commited from the fop 21:22 kenny but a committee needs a structure, the roles need to have a palce within the comittee, I mean is a treasurer needed? waht would the treasurers trole be? what is the need, its needs to be put down in a constitution 21:22 Neil_ but as we can't really define an offical scotlug presence at the moment we're a bit fscked, so here
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
TEST Sending to both Willie and list by means of auto reply Tony D In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Willie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Thursday 11 December 2003 10:03, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 20:10, Ian Ruffell wrote: Did he now? I never got that msg which is kinda worrying.. Just for clarification: it's more a case of persuading folk like the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body to shift off MS; not to mention encouraging similar moves in the public sector at large. Pat talks about this (with text of parliamentary questions, etc.) on his website (www.patrickharviemsp.com). I'll have a look at that It's not so much getting politicians away from using Microsoft's products (although it could save a substantial amount) as getting them away from closed, secret, non-free document formats. I can foresee problems ahead when all those documents written in Word 95 suddenly aren't readable when Office 2005 comes out and support for older formats is dropped (not that Microsoft would do such a thing, would they?) That's not to say that other parties are not interested: I also saw Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP make positive noises abour open source software recently. As Willie was saying, coalitions ... Ahemm, I may be able to claim a bit of credit there. One time last year was sitting across from Nichola and another of her SNP colleagues on the train. I bent their ears all the way back to Queen St on the benefits of Open Source. Well, using an openly published document format (really, even using .RTF would be a start) would benefit everyone, in all parties. Well politcs is the art of the possible so lets tackle something that could make a difference and may be attainable. I havent thought this one through thoroughly yet,(thats what you guys are for!) but could we make a realistic costed case for keeping a copy of all Scottish Executive documents in a format other than .doc? Personally I'd go for Open Office formats but ,yes .RTF would be a start. Storage has never been cheaper and it should be reasonably(!) simple to implement. Internally, the Green machines in Glasgow are all on various flavours of Debian at the moment (putting our technology where our mouth is). Can't answer for the Edinburgh mob, though. Argh! Not Slackware? I'm definitely not voting for you! Vote SNP then. -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. First class web hosting from 11 at http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954 ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Making scotlug mailing list available via gmane news gateway?
Why are we wanting to change for change sake. The mailing list has served us well for four years. I vote for the status quo. If it's not broken don't fix it. Tony Dyer In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Marsh's list-reading hat [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Just wondering if a consensus had been reached as regards making this list available via the extremely useful gmane http://www.gmane.org/ news-list gateway? The discussion we had (a few days ago) seemed to have a few voices in favour, a few voices with understandable concerns (which I think we addressed?) but nobody actually against the idea. Can we go with this, then? David. -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. Tony Dyer email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.dyer.demon.co.uk/ ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Making scotlug mailing list available via gmane news gateway?
I thought that more was less and less was more. What's the benefit to ME again? I have one way that works why do I need another? In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Graeme Mathieson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Tony == Tony Dyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [ Using gmane ] Tony Why are we wanting to change for change sake. It isn't really a change; it's just an additional way of accessing the list. -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. Tony Dyer email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.dyer.demon.co.uk/ ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Re: Making scotlug mailing list available via gmane news gateway?
Can we keep control of a newsgroup i.e. can it be moderated and membership controlled and anti spam and bulk newsing prevented? In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Will Partain [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes David Marsh's list-reading hat [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was just wondering if anybody would think it would be a good idea to gateway the scotlug email list to gmane? ... gmane is a Beautiful Beautiful Thing -- heartily recommended. It's done by Lars Ingebrigtsen, who also wrote the (post-Japanese) version of GNUS, the Emacs news-and-mail reader which is the eighth wonder of the world. Will ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. Tony Dyer email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.dyer.demon.co.uk/ ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
