Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant

2014-01-17 Thread Markus Krötzsch 
On 17/01/14 15:09, Yaron Koren wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Markus - are you suggesting retroactively referring to, say, version
> 1.5.1 as version 5.1 - with a corresponding change to all the
> documentation, etc.? Or just jumping straight from version 1.9 to
> version 10.0? I'm assuming the latter, but in either case that seems
> like a bad idea, that will in fact cause confusion, without any obvious
> benefit.
>
> Yes, Java did it, but, as Wikipedia notes [1], that was strictly for
> marketing purposes, presumably because "Java 6" looks a lot nicer on a
> book cover than "Java 1.6". Behind the scenes, Java developers still
> refer to it as 1.6, etc. When the first "SMW Unleashed" book comes out,
> then maybe it makes sense to start talking about making the number look
> nicer. :)
>
> I think it's overly dramatic to say that SMW versioning will never move
> past 1.x. There are a few previous versions that could have merited a
> jump to 2.0, in my opinion - the most recent two, 1.8 and 1.9, being
> obvious candidates. Perhaps it was a mistake to not make the major
> number jump with either of them. (And by the way, maybe it's not too
> late to rename 1.9 to 2.0? It's only been out for two weeks now...) But
> trying to pretend that those *were* major version number changes seems
> like it would cause more problems than it's worth.

I was suggesting to use 10 as the next version, but to keep all old 
releases (including 1.9) named as before; otherwise we would really 
cause confusion (e.g. there are archived emails about those versions 
that we cannot edit). However, the suggestion not to jump but to simply 
leave away the initial "1." in the future. My reason was that the number 
"9" seems to be our current major version, rather than a minor version 
of major version "1". And if it is good enough for Java marketing, I 
don't see a problem using it for SMW ;-)

Anyway, I won't fight for either option :-) Version 2.0 also sounds nice 
in a way.

Cheers,

Markus

>
> Jeroen - the numbering decisions of the developers of core MediaWiki
> seem irrelevant to this discussion, I would think.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history
>
> -Yaron
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Jeroen De Dauw  > wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
>  > Markus:
>  > the next version should be 10.0.0
>
> Good point. +1 to this.
>
>  > Alexander:
>
>  > It is also important to tag all extensions. This is very often
> not the case yet...
>
> At least for SMW you can be sure all future releases will be tagged,
> since Composer essentially requires one to tag in order to create a
> release. The same is also true for SRF and Maps, and I hope more
> extensions will follow.
>
>  > Yaron:
>  > I can't imagine anyone would object to increasing the version
> number to 2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that.
>
> A discussion about the same question occurred quite some time back
> on wikitech. As you can probably guess, the outcome was rather
> different.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Jeroen De Dauw
> http://www.bn2vs.com
> Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3
> --
>
> 
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Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant

2014-01-17 Thread Yaron Koren 
Hi,

Markus - are you suggesting retroactively referring to, say, version 1.5.1
as version 5.1 - with a corresponding change to all the documentation,
etc.? Or just jumping straight from version 1.9 to version 10.0? I'm
assuming the latter, but in either case that seems like a bad idea, that
will in fact cause confusion, without any obvious benefit.

Yes, Java did it, but, as Wikipedia notes [1], that was strictly for
marketing purposes, presumably because "Java 6" looks a lot nicer on a book
cover than "Java 1.6". Behind the scenes, Java developers still refer to it
as 1.6, etc. When the first "SMW Unleashed" book comes out, then maybe it
makes sense to start talking about making the number look nicer. :)

I think it's overly dramatic to say that SMW versioning will never move
past 1.x. There are a few previous versions that could have merited a jump
to 2.0, in my opinion - the most recent two, 1.8 and 1.9, being obvious
candidates. Perhaps it was a mistake to not make the major number jump with
either of them. (And by the way, maybe it's not too late to rename 1.9 to
2.0? It's only been out for two weeks now...) But trying to pretend that
those *were* major version number changes seems like it would cause more
problems than it's worth.

Jeroen - the numbering decisions of the developers of core MediaWiki seem
irrelevant to this discussion, I would think.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history

-Yaron


On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Jeroen De Dauw wrote:

> Hey,
>
> > Markus:
> > the next version should be 10.0.0
>
> Good point. +1 to this.
>
> > Alexander:
>
> > It is also important to tag all extensions. This is very often not the
> case yet...
>
> At least for SMW you can be sure all future releases will be tagged, since
> Composer essentially requires one to tag in order to create a release. The
> same is also true for SRF and Maps, and I hope more extensions will follow.
>
> > Yaron:
> > I can't imagine anyone would object to increasing the version number to
> 2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that.
>
> A discussion about the same question occurred quite some time back on
> wikitech. As you can probably guess, the outcome was rather different.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Jeroen De Dauw
> http://www.bn2vs.com
> Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3
> --
>
>
> --
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>


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Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant

2014-01-17 Thread Jeroen De Dauw 
Hey,

> Markus:
> the next version should be 10.0.0

Good point. +1 to this.

> Alexander:
> It is also important to tag all extensions. This is very often not the
case yet...

At least for SMW you can be sure all future releases will be tagged, since
Composer essentially requires one to tag in order to create a release. The
same is also true for SRF and Maps, and I hope more extensions will follow.

> Yaron:
> I can't imagine anyone would object to increasing the version number to
2.0, 3.0 etc. if/when it makes sense to do that.

A discussion about the same question occurred quite some time back on
wikitech. As you can probably guess, the outcome was rather different.

Cheers

--
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http://www.bn2vs.com
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Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant

2014-01-17 Thread planetenxin 
+1 for using the semver.org definitions. This is especially important in 
managed (enterprise) IT environments (ITIL...) where major changes 
triggers different processes. It is also important to tag all 
extensions. This is very often not the case yet...

/Alexander

Am 17.01.2014 10:41, schrieb Markus Krötzsch:
> Hi,
>
> +1 to dropping the initial "1." that will never ever change.
>
> However, since the 1 was unchanged since we are out of beta, it seems to
> me that we are currently treating the second number as our major
> version. In other words, we are at version 9.0.1 and the next version
> should be 10.0.0. This is a bit like what was done for Java ;-).
>
> I don't think users will be overly confused or upset in any case. Having
> more relevant first digits will certainly be good for clarity.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
> On 16/01/14 20:34, Jeroen De Dauw wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> I think it would be nice if SMW was http://semver.org/ compliant.
>>
>> This means version numbers would look like MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH with a
>> possible stability suffix. This is very close to what we are already
>> doing, except that we are sticking a "1." in front of it. Having this
>> shifted by one might not be confusing to people familiar with the SMW
>> release cycle, though might be surprising to those who are not.
>>
>> How about switching to this schema for out next major release, which
>> would then end up being 2.0?
>>
>> If we make this switch, the next major release seems like the best point
>> to do this. Coincidentally one advantage to picking this release for
>> such a change is that it makes us skip 1.10, which some users might
>> think is smaller than 1.9.0.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>> Jeroen De Dauw
>> http://www.bn2vs.com
>> Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3
>> --
>>
>>
>> --
>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments&  Everything In Between.
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Re: [SMW-devel] Making SMW semver.org compliant

2014-01-17 Thread Markus Krötzsch 
Hi,

+1 to dropping the initial "1." that will never ever change.

However, since the 1 was unchanged since we are out of beta, it seems to 
me that we are currently treating the second number as our major 
version. In other words, we are at version 9.0.1 and the next version 
should be 10.0.0. This is a bit like what was done for Java ;-).

I don't think users will be overly confused or upset in any case. Having 
more relevant first digits will certainly be good for clarity.

Cheers,

Markus

On 16/01/14 20:34, Jeroen De Dauw wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I think it would be nice if SMW was http://semver.org/ compliant.
>
> This means version numbers would look like MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH with a
> possible stability suffix. This is very close to what we are already
> doing, except that we are sticking a "1." in front of it. Having this
> shifted by one might not be confusing to people familiar with the SMW
> release cycle, though might be surprising to those who are not.
>
> How about switching to this schema for out next major release, which
> would then end up being 2.0?
>
> If we make this switch, the next major release seems like the best point
> to do this. Coincidentally one advantage to picking this release for
> such a change is that it makes us skip 1.10, which some users might
> think is smaller than 1.9.0.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Jeroen De Dauw
> http://www.bn2vs.com
> Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3
> --
>
>
> --
> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
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>
>
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