ShopTalk: 7-iron 353 cpm grip on / 363 cpm grip off - how?

[Harry F. Schiestel]

What do you use solid steel rebar?  The recommended frequency of the 7-Iron is 
just under
X-Stiff flex.

 

So with grip off, lets assume the target frequency of this 7-iron per Lloyd's 
recommendation is 363
cpm.  Let's also assume a 37 inch 7-Iron.  How do you make a 7-Iron at 363cpm, 
10.2 Flex (+
Flex) . this is 4.7-X Stiff

 

7-IRON at 37" (no grip)

371 cpm, 11.0 Flex - I assume this to be X+ Flex

367 cpm, 10.5 Flex - I assume this to be X Flex

361 cpm, 10.0 Flex - I assume this to be + Flex

357 cpm, 9.5 Flex - I assume this to be  Flex

351 cpm, 9.0 Flex - I assume this to be XXX+ Flex

347 cpm, 8.5 Flex - I assume this to be XXX Flex

341 cpm, 8.0 Flex - I assume this to be XX+ Flex

337 cpm, 7.5 Flex - I assume this to be XX Flex

331 cpm, 7.0 Flex - I assume this to be X+ Flex

327 cpm, 6.5 Flex - I assume this to be X Flex

321 cpm, 6.0 Flex - I assume this to be S+ Flex

317 cpm, 5.5 Flex - I assume this to be S Flex

311 cpm, 5.0 Flex - I assume this to be R+ Flex

307 cpm, 4.5 Flex - I assume this to be R Flex

  _  

From: owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com [mailto:owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com] On 
Behalf Of Robert Devino
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:18 PM
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how?

 

grip on
 

Sincerely,
Robert Devino
14252 Delano St.
Van Nuys, Ca. 91401
(818) 770-0475 

  _  

From: Harry F. Schiestel 
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:18:56 AM
Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how?

When Lloyd's gizmo said 7-Iron at 353 cpm does his software assume grip on or 
grip off for this
value?   Just wondering the assumption.  Harry

  _  

 

Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how?

[Robert Devino]

grip on
 Sincerely,
Robert Devino
14252 Delano St.
Van Nuys, Ca. 91401
(818) 770-0475 





From: Harry F. Schiestel 
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:18:56 AM
Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how?


When Lloyd’s gizmo said 7-Iron at 353 cpm does his software assume grip on or 
grip off for this value?   Just wondering the assumption.  Harry





  

Re: ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

[Brad Smith]

Harry,
My info came from the slide show that was linked on Tim's site.  The  
slide show says it is a presentation by the PCS's Frequency Committee  
that developed the system/software.  One of the slides is of the "Data  
Input Chart".  It is filled out as an example.  It shows that for this  
case, the Calibrating shaft cpm measured by PCS and the frequency  
measured by the clubmakers system were the same.  It also shows that  
no adjustment is made for what they call "coefficient of flex value"  
which apparently is a fudge factor that can be applied for those  
shafts that play stiffer or weaker than their frequency.  In that  
table, they show a 38" 289 is a 4.0 and a 38" at 5.0 being 299.  I  
extrapolated what a 38" 6.0 would be (+10cpm = 309cpm) and that a 45"  
6.0 would be ( 7" longer @ 8cpm/in = minus 56cpm or309 - 56 = 253).

Brad

On Dec 13, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Harry F. Schiestel wrote:


Hi Brad, Andre, Tim, and ALL

Does everyone assume R flex is 4.5 Flex?  Years ago R flex was 5.5  
designation.
A few years ago SK Fiber published the PCS Equalizer chart in their  
shaft catalogue.

This is where I got the following cpm vs. #.# Flex designations:

What do you tell a customer when they want to know Letter and not  
Number flex?


Brad you stated: 5-Iron = 38" @ 6.0 be 309 cpm.
This is different from my PCS Equalizer chart as follows:
5-IRON at 38” (no grip)
318cpm, 6.5 Flex – I assume this to be X Flex
313cpm, 6.0 Flex – I assume this to be S+ Flex
308cpm, 5.5 Flex – I assume this to be S Flex
303cpm, 5.0 Flex – I assume this to be R+ Flex
298cpm, 4.5 Flex – I assume this to be R Flex

Brad you stated: Driver = 45" @ 6.0 be 253 cpm.
This is different from my PCS Equalizer chart as follows:
DRIVER at 45” (no grip)
258cpm, 6.5 Flex – I assume this to be X Flex
253cpm, 6.0 Flex – I assume this to be S+ Flex
248cpm, 5.5 Flex – I assume this to be S Flex
243cpm, 5.0 Flex – I assume this to be R+ Flex
238cpm, 4.5 Flex – I assume this to be R Flex

Tim Hewitt has stated, “The PCS flex values did not align to the
Rifle values even though they used the same numbering system.”
PCS's Equalizer software system: http://www.myostrichgolf.com/equalizer/

Thanks Harry S
www.myGolfDNA.com
Wingham, Canada
From: owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com [mailto:owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com 
] On Behalf Of Brad Smith

Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:41 AM
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

Andre,
 In the link from Tim, one of the charts shows a flex value of 4.0  
for a 38" iron at 289cpm.  That value was for a freq meter that read  
the same as the calibration shaft standard, according to the chart.   
That would make a 38" @ 6.0 be 309, or a 6.0 45" driver be  
253cpm.As I understand, these are for ungripped clubs..  Do you  
know if this is the "standard" for that system?

Thanks Brad

Re: ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

[Tim Hewitt]

I explain to them that they were fit to a custom frequency and it does 
not align to a letter or number value.


I also explain to them that there are no standards in the golf 
industry, and one company's R is another company's S and yet another 
company's A flex.


This usually works - though not always...

-t

On Dec 13, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Harry F. Schiestel wrote:
What do you tell a customer when they want to know Letter and not 
Number flex?

ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

[Harry F. Schiestel]

Hi Brad, Andre, Tim, and ALL

 

Does everyone assume R flex is 4.5 Flex?  Years ago R flex was 5.5 designation.

A few years ago SK Fiber published the PCS Equalizer chart in their shaft 
catalogue.

This is where I got the following cpm vs. #.# Flex designations:

 

What do you tell a customer when they want to know Letter and not Number flex?

 

Brad you stated: 5-Iron = 38" @ 6.0 be 309 cpm.

This is different from my PCS Equalizer chart as follows:

5-IRON at 38" (no grip)

318cpm, 6.5 Flex - I assume this to be X Flex

313cpm, 6.0 Flex - I assume this to be S+ Flex

308cpm, 5.5 Flex - I assume this to be S Flex

303cpm, 5.0 Flex - I assume this to be R+ Flex

298cpm, 4.5 Flex - I assume this to be R Flex

 

Brad you stated: Driver = 45" @ 6.0 be 253 cpm.

This is different from my PCS Equalizer chart as follows:

DRIVER at 45" (no grip)

258cpm, 6.5 Flex - I assume this to be X Flex

253cpm, 6.0 Flex - I assume this to be S+ Flex

248cpm, 5.5 Flex - I assume this to be S Flex

243cpm, 5.0 Flex - I assume this to be R+ Flex

238cpm, 4.5 Flex - I assume this to be R Flex

 

Tim Hewitt has stated, "The PCS flex values did not align to the 

Rifle values even though they used the same numbering system."

PCS's Equalizer software system: http://www.myostrichgolf.com/equalizer/

 

Thanks Harry S

www.myGolfDNA.com   

Wingham, Canada

  _  

From: owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com [mailto:owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com] On 
Behalf Of Brad Smith
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:41 AM
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

 

Andre,

 In the link from Tim, one of the charts shows a flex value of 4.0 for a 38" 
iron at 289cpm.  That
value was for a freq meter that read the same as the calibration shaft 
standard, according to the
chart.  That would make a 38" @ 6.0 be 309, or a 6.0 45" driver be 253cpm.
As I understand, these
are for ungripped clubs..  Do you know if this is the "standard" for that 
system?

Thanks Brad

  _  

 

Re: ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

[Tim Hewitt]

You can find a number of experts on the PCS Equalizer system in the 
forums at the International Clubmakers Guild website at 
www.clubmakersguild.com


These include Dave Eagar, the developer of the software.  Any questions 
you have about how the system was intended to help clubmakers "talk the 
same language" and manage the differences between frequency analyzer 
systems can be answered there.


The PCS flex values did not align to the Rifle values even though they 
used the same numbering system.


We used the system to match up clubs from three different shops and 5 
different frequency machine installations - where we often found as 
much as an 8 cpm difference between installations based on clamping 
pressure/size, power regulation and stability of the mounting system. 
We could easily match clubs built at one shop with clubs measured at 
another shop without having to measure the target club in the shop that 
was actually doing the work.


-Tim

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Re: ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

[Brad Smith]

Andre,
 In the link from Tim, one of the charts shows a flex value of 4.0  
for a 38" iron at 289cpm.  That value was for a freq meter that read  
the same as the calibration shaft standard, according to the chart.   
That would make a 38" @ 6.0 be 309, or a 6.0 45" driver be 253cpm. 
As I understand, these are for ungripped clubs..  Do you know if this  
is the "standard" for that system?

thanks
Brad


On Dec 12, 2008, at 4:42 AM, André Cantin wrote:

Brad. The calibration stick came with a heavy tip weight attached to  
the shaft. Ungripped.
The frequency chart is based on  a 5 inch clamp/raw shaft. If your  
meter comes up with a different value the software adjusts the data  
accordingly. Then if you and I compare our flex values we end up  
with the same data.



André.



From: Brad Smith
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:30 AM
Subject: ShopTalk: PCS Equalizer

I went to Tim Hewitt's site that Andre mentioned about the defunct  
PCS's Equalizer software system.   http://www.myostrichgolf.com/equalizer/


It made me curious.  Can someone explain exactly how a clubmaker was  
supposed to use this calibration shaft/software combo.  The slide  
show that Tim had linked at the site above  didn't explain just what  
the clubmaker was supposed to do with this calibrated shaft except  
"measure it" and put the freq into the software.But with what,  
for example, as a tip weight?  Did it come with one?  Was it gripped?


One of the tables said that you input their software the stated  
calibrated shaft freq and then also what that same shaft reads on  
your freq meter into their software.  Then the software will make  
the necessary adjustment and tell you what freq to build to on your  
meter, the way you clamp, to come up with a certain numerical flex  
or letter rating that will be constant among clubmakers using the  
system.  The system has graphs for both.


Am I guessing correctly that what it does is this: after you measure  
their shaft with their tip weight you know how much higher or lower  
your freq meter reads than their "standard" for this same shaft/ 
weight combo.  Then by inputting this difference into their  
software, it "re-draws" the flex slope lines (whether 2.0 -7.0  or   
LARSX either higher or lower by this difference amount.  Is that  
pretty much what it did?

thanks

Brad

ShopTalk: Recommend a putterhead with negative offset?

[Vincent]

Just tinkering with club ideas for the off-season.  I'm currently
using a center-shafted putter with very little negative offset.   I'm
thinking something with even more negative offset would help someone
who's left-eye and right-hand dominant (like me).  To me at least, I
believe I can see the putterhead connect with the ball more clearly.

I'd love to know what component heads come recommended.   Balance
should fall in between face-balanced and slight (10 degree?) toe-hang.
  It's not a strong requirement, since I'm also thinking about the
Ping 1-A.   Putterhead needs to be center-shafted for me and its
weight needs to fall on the hefty side, since I find myself on fast
greens with bent grass (like Pinch Brook in NJ).

I just might ask Mr. Murphy in Clark to make this putter for me.
That Callaway S2H2 head's still sitting on my desk.   Ugh.

Thanks for reading!
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