Re: [sig-policy] Proposal to revise SIG guidelines

[Adam Gosling]

Hi Randy

Just a couple of references - inline

 On 6/09/2016, 10:35, "Randy Bush"  wrote:

hi:

this kludge is not very well thought out.

not that i am advocating, but an ietfish approach would be a requirement
to have attended n previous meetings.  makes more sense to me than this
proposal.  but ...
   
The NRO NC election process a similar requirement. 
Individuals who are on site and are registered for either the current 
APNIC Conference they are attending, or have been registered for at least one 
previous APNIC Conference since APNIC 10, are entitled to one vote.
https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/elections/nro-elections/nro-election-process

Voting in EC elections is restricted to Members.
 https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/elections/ec/voting/who-can-vote

personally, i am not sure there is a real problem.  so what if the old
guard gets thrown out and some new unknown folk get elected.  it might
be a breath of fresh air.  what actual damage could some fresh blood do?
some radical change in apnic across the board just might benefit the
internet.

[ historical note: this descends from the first taipei meeting, where
  there were no voting restrictions.  a bunch of folk showed up just for
  the ec election and voted in an outsider, shock and horror!  of
  course, all sorts of rules and restrictions to protect the old guard
  were immediately put in place. ]

randy


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Re: [sig-policy] Proposal to revise SIG guidelines

[Randy Bush]

hi:

this kludge is not very well thought out.

not that i am advocating, but an ietfish approach would be a requirement
to have attended n previous meetings.  makes more sense to me than this
proposal.  but ...

personally, i am not sure there is a real problem.  so what if the old
guard gets thrown out and some new unknown folk get elected.  it might
be a breath of fresh air.  what actual damage could some fresh blood do?
some radical change in apnic across the board just might benefit the
internet.

[ historical note: this descends from the first taipei meeting, where
  there were no voting restrictions.  a bunch of folk showed up just for
  the ec election and voted in an outsider, shock and horror!  of
  course, all sorts of rules and restrictions to protect the old guard
  were immediately put in place. ]

randy
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Re: [sig-policy] Proposal to revise SIG guidelines

[Skeeve Stevens]

This is worrying re Confer as I am quite sure I could register 100,000
people with unique addresses.

We've entered a new era of bots - this would not be hard.


...Skeeve

*Skeeve Stevens - Senior IP Broker*
*v4Now - *an eintellego Networks service
ske...@v4now.com ; www.v4now.com

Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve

facebook.com/v4now ;  
linkedin.com/in/skeeve

twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com ; Keybase:
https://keybase.io/skeeve


IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Adam Gosling  wrote:

> Hi Randy
>
>
>  On 5/09/2016, 20:52, "Randy Bush"  wrote:
>
> >> [ this is address policy? ]
>
> No this is not address policy. The SIG Guidelines are the rules of
> procedure for all SIGs. The proposal was also sent to the other SIG mailing
> lists, but will be discussed in the Policy SIG as there is more agenda time
> there.
>
> >> Secondary, it can be used by fraud, like hijacking the position of
> >> Chair agaist the Community by inviting many persons who never attend
> >> the community discussion.
> >> ...
> >> I would like to propose limiting eligible voters of SIG Chair
> election
> >> to registered participants of APNIC Conference where the election is
> >> held.
> >>
> >> In this context, registered participants include remote participants
> >> who register to Confer, or its successor in future.
>
> is there an unstated assumption that many persons could attend the
> meeting who are not registered locally or remotely?  does that
> assumption hold?
>
> The Secretariat doesn’t physically check registrations at the door to the
> Policy SIG sessions, I guess a bunch of extra people could wander in
> without badges. I’m not sure if we would notice.
>
> At present remote participation (using the CONFER tool) only requires a
> simple registration with unique email address. We tried more stringent
> registration procedures with the Webcasting (like ARIN) and got a lot of
> negative feedback.
>
>
> > I would like to propose aligning Chair' term with Co-Chair's term,
> > which means that Chair and all Co-Chair will serve for same two
> years.
>
> could make for a tough transition if both are replaced at the same
> time.
>
>
> randy
>
>
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Re: [sig-policy] Proposal to revise SIG guidelines

[Adam Gosling]

Hi Randy


 On 5/09/2016, 20:52, "Randy Bush"  wrote:

>> [ this is address policy? ]

No this is not address policy. The SIG Guidelines are the rules of procedure 
for all SIGs. The proposal was also sent to the other SIG mailing lists, but 
will be discussed in the Policy SIG as there is more agenda time there.
  
>> Secondary, it can be used by fraud, like hijacking the position of
>> Chair agaist the Community by inviting many persons who never attend
>> the community discussion.
>> ...
>> I would like to propose limiting eligible voters of SIG Chair election
>> to registered participants of APNIC Conference where the election is
>> held.
>> 
>> In this context, registered participants include remote participants
>> who register to Confer, or its successor in future.

is there an unstated assumption that many persons could attend the
meeting who are not registered locally or remotely?  does that
assumption hold?

The Secretariat doesn’t physically check registrations at the door to the 
Policy SIG sessions, I guess a bunch of extra people could wander in without 
badges. I’m not sure if we would notice.

At present remote participation (using the CONFER tool) only requires a simple 
registration with unique email address. We tried more stringent registration 
procedures with the Webcasting (like ARIN) and got a lot of negative feedback.


> I would like to propose aligning Chair' term with Co-Chair's term,
> which means that Chair and all Co-Chair will serve for same two years.

could make for a tough transition if both are replaced at the same time.


randy


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Re: [sig-policy] Proposal to revise SIG guidelines

[Masato Yamanishi]

Hi All,

As you know, it is our current practice that Chair/Co-Chair doesn't
propose a policy by himself/herself in recent APNIC Policy SIG.

However, while it seems that many community members basically agreed with
these problem when I presented them at Singapore
<
https://conference.apnic.net/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/58992/ambiguouts-points-in-pdp-2013027_1361972669.pdf
>,
nobody has picked them up and propose solutions even after 3 years.
In addition, I believe I'm one of persons who felt these problems most
seriously through my service as Co-Chair/Chair.
So, I decided to propose these solutions by myself.

Please note that I have asked Chair's responsibility of this proposal in
Policy SIG discussion to Sumon, Co-Chair,
to avoid a conflict of interests related with this proposal. Also, I will
not run Policy SIG Chair when my term will be end at APNIC 43 in next Feb
or Mar.
so that I don't have a conflict of interests in that meaning as well.

Thus, please accept my replies and comments for this proposal as one of
community views, not Chair's view.

Regards,
Matt



2016-09-05 19:08 GMT+09:00 Adam Gosling :

> Dear SIG members
>
>
>
> A proposal to modify the APNIC SIG Guidelines relating to the election
>
> of SIG Chairs and Co-Chairs has been submitted for consideration at
>
> APNIC 42 im Colombo, Sri Lanka.
>
>
>
> https://www.apnic.net/sig-chair-elections/proposed-revision.txt
>
>
>
> If agreed. these changes will affect all APNIC SIGs from APNIC 43 in Ho
>
> Chi Minh City, Vietnam.
>
>
>
> Discussion and call for consensus will take place in the Policy SIG.
>
>
>
> https://www.apnic.net/mailinglists
>
>
>
> If successful in the Policy SIG, a consensus call will be made at the
>
> APNIC Member Meeting. There will be no final Comment Period.
>
>
>
> To ensure those not travelling to APNIC 42 are able to participate in
>
> the discussion, you are invited to comment on the Policy SIG Mailing
>
> List before the conference.
>
>
>
> More background to this proposal is available at:
>
>
>
> https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/chair-elections
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Revising eligible voters of Chair election and Chair's term
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Proposer:   Masato Yamanishi
>
> myama...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> 1. Problem statement
>
> 
>
>
>
> 1. Eligible voters in SIG Chair election
>
> In current SIG guidelines, we have no rule or guideline about eligible
>
> voters in SIG Chair election and we have two issues by the lack of such
>
> rule.
>
>
>
> Firstly, we need to have clear guideline whether remote participants
>
> have voting rights for SIG Chair election since current practice is
>
> different in each election.
>
>
>
> Secondary, it can be used by fraud, like hijacking the position of Chair
>
> agaist the Community by inviting many persons who never attend the
>
> community discussion.
>
>
>
> 2. SIG Chair's term of service
>
> While SIG guidelines says "Elections occur yearly. Chair elections and
>
> Co-Chair elections occur in alternate years.", both elections were held
>
> at same meeting in many cases, in particular when a current Co-Chair
>
> stand for the position of Chair. With this current practice having both
>
> elections at same meeting, we are not seeing any significant issues for
>
> long time.
>
>
>
> In addition, there is no alternative condition for the successor's term
>
> if current Chair/Co-Chair resigned or was removed though such
>
> alternative condition is necessary to maintain staggered term as
>
> requested by SIG guideline. (a.k.a. the successor's term of service is
>
> same as remaining term of resigned or removed Chair)
>
>
>
>
>
> 2. Objective of policy change
>
> -
>
>
>
> The objective is preventing confusions related to remote participant as
>
> well as mitigating possible frauds in SIG Chair election by setting
>
> clear rule for eligible voters.
>
>
>
> In addition, we can also expect aligning SIG guideline with current
>
> practice as well as resolving unclearness of the successor's term when
>
> current Chair/Co-Chair resigned or was removed by revising SIG Chair's
>
> term of service.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3. Situation in other regions
>
> -
>
>
>
> Please refer following page made by Adam Gosling
>
>
>
> Comparison of RIR SIG/WG Chair Election Processes
>
> https://www.apnic.net/sig-guidelines/chair-elections/other-rirs
>
>
>
>
>
> 4. Proposed policy solution
>
> ---
>
>
>
> 1. Eligible voters in SIG Chair election
>
> I would like to propose limiting eligible voters of SIG Chair election
>
> to registered participants of APNIC Conference where the election is
>
> held.
>
>
>
> In this context, registered participants include remote participants who
>
> register to Confer, or its 

Re: [sig-policy] Proposal to revise SIG guidelines

[Randy Bush]

[ this is address policy? ]

> Secondary, it can be used by fraud, like hijacking the position of
> Chair agaist the Community by inviting many persons who never attend
> the community discussion.
> ...
> I would like to propose limiting eligible voters of SIG Chair election
> to registered participants of APNIC Conference where the election is
> held.
> 
> In this context, registered participants include remote participants
> who register to Confer, or its successor in future.

is there an unstated assumption that many persons could attend the
meeting who are not registered locally or remotely?  does that
assumption hold?

> I would like to propose aligning Chair' term with Co-Chair's term,
> which means that Chair and all Co-Chair will serve for same two years.

could make for a tough transition if both are replaced at the same time.

randy
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[sig-policy] Proposal to revise SIG guidelines

[Adam Gosling]

Dear SIG members

A proposal to modify the APNIC SIG Guidelines relating to the election
of SIG Chairs and Co-Chairs has been submitted for consideration at
APNIC 42 im Colombo, Sri Lanka.

https://www.apnic.net/sig-chair-elections/proposed-revision.txt

If agreed. these changes will affect all APNIC SIGs from APNIC 43 in Ho
Chi Minh City, Vietnam.

Discussion and call for consensus will take place in the Policy SIG.

https://www.apnic.net/mailinglists

If successful in the Policy SIG, a consensus call will be made at the
APNIC Member Meeting. There will be no final Comment Period.

To ensure those not travelling to APNIC 42 are able to participate in
the discussion, you are invited to comment on the Policy SIG Mailing
List before the conference.

More background to this proposal is available at:

https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/chair-elections

Regards

Adam


---

Revising eligible voters of Chair election and Chair's term

---

Proposer:   Masato Yamanishi
myama...@gmail.com


1. Problem statement


1. Eligible voters in SIG Chair election
In current SIG guidelines, we have no rule or guideline about eligible
voters in SIG Chair election and we have two issues by the lack of such
rule.

Firstly, we need to have clear guideline whether remote participants
have voting rights for SIG Chair election since current practice is
different in each election.

Secondary, it can be used by fraud, like hijacking the position of Chair
agaist the Community by inviting many persons who never attend the
community discussion.

2. SIG Chair's term of service
While SIG guidelines says "Elections occur yearly. Chair elections and
Co-Chair elections occur in alternate years.", both elections were held
at same meeting in many cases, in particular when a current Co-Chair
stand for the position of Chair. With this current practice having both
elections at same meeting, we are not seeing any significant issues for
long time.

In addition, there is no alternative condition for the successor's term
if current Chair/Co-Chair resigned or was removed though such
alternative condition is necessary to maintain staggered term as
requested by SIG guideline. (a.k.a. the successor's term of service is
same as remaining term of resigned or removed Chair)


2. Objective of policy change
-

The objective is preventing confusions related to remote participant as
well as mitigating possible frauds in SIG Chair election by setting
clear rule for eligible voters.

In addition, we can also expect aligning SIG guideline with current
practice as well as resolving unclearness of the successor's term when
current Chair/Co-Chair resigned or was removed by revising SIG Chair's
term of service.


3. Situation in other regions
-

Please refer following page made by Adam Gosling

Comparison of RIR SIG/WG Chair Election Processes
https://www.apnic.net/sig-guidelines/chair-elections/other-rirs


4. Proposed policy solution
---

1. Eligible voters in SIG Chair election
I would like to propose limiting eligible voters of SIG Chair election
to registered participants of APNIC Conference where the election is
held.

In this context, registered participants include remote participants who
register to Confer, or its successor in future.

2. SIG Chair's term of service
I would like to propose aligning Chair' term with Co-Chair's term, which
means that Chair and all Co-Chair will serve for same two years.
To keep this alighment, I would like to propose limiting the successor's
term to remaining term of current Chair/Co-Chair if current
Chair/Co-Chair resigned or was removed.



5. Advantages / Disadvantages
-

Advantages:
By setting clear rule for eligible voters,

  - we can avoid confusion whether remote participant cast vote for SIG
Chair election or not
  - we can mitigate frauds in SIG Chair election

By revising SIG Chair's term of service
  - we can resolve a conflict between SIG guideline and current practice
  - we can resolve unclearness of the successor's term when current
Chair/Co-Chair resigned or was removed



Disadvantages:
APNIC staff may need to spend some additional time to confirm whether
each voter is registered participants.

There is no disadvantage by revising SIG Chair's term of service.


6. Impact on resource holders
-

No direct impact


7. References
-

Chair Election Procedure Review by Adam Gosling
https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/chair-elections

Comparison of RIR SIG/WG Chair Election Processes
https://www.apnic.net/sig-guidelines/chair-elections/other-rirs

APNIC SIG Guidelines
https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/sig-guidelines



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