Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate
Peccavi. Isn't that in Pakistan? There is an urban legend linking this word to the province of Sind in Pakistan, and it depends on an awful pun. And yes, Sindh is in Pakistan, which indicates that Biju probably had prior knowledge of this most atrocious pun. -- Sumant Srivathsan http://sumants.blogspot.com
Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate
--- On Sun, 22/3/09, Sumant Srivathsan suma...@gmail.com wrote: From: Sumant Srivathsan suma...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Sunday, 22 March, 2009, 11:30 AM Peccavi. Isn't that in Pakistan? There is an urban legend linking this word to the province of Sind in Pakistan, and it depends on an awful pun. And yes, Sindh is in Pakistan, which indicates that Biju probably had prior knowledge of this most atrocious pun. -- Sumant Srivathsan http://sumants.blogspot.com Hmmmph. Suspected as much. Tricky customer, that Chacko chap. Needs to be watched like a hawk. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/
Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate
On Sunday 22 Mar 2009 11:30:38 am Sumant Srivathsan wrote: Peccavi. Isn't that in Pakistan? There is an urban legend linking this word to the province of Sind in Pakistan, and it depends on an awful pun. And yes, Sindh is in Pakistan, which indicates that Biju probably had prior knowledge of this most atrocious pun. Well Pakistan has sinned pretty badly and it appears that Biju knows this. shiv
Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate
--- On Sun, 22/3/09, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: From: ss cybers...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Sunday, 22 March, 2009, 1:08 PM -Inline Attachment Follows- On Sunday 22 Mar 2009 11:30:38 am Sumant Srivathsan wrote: Peccavi. Isn't that in Pakistan? There is an urban legend linking this word to the province of Sind in Pakistan, and it depends on an awful pun. And yes, Sindh is in Pakistan, which indicates that Biju probably had prior knowledge of this most atrocious pun. Well Pakistan has sinned pretty badly and it appears that Biju knows this. shiv Venkat, you bad man, it's all YOUR fault. Any moment, now, Ram will swing by on a curtain, brandishing his Smith and Wagah. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/
[silk] Thanks for a warm welcome
Hello Folks: Sorry for the delay in my response; I am trying to figure out how to make a GMail address work well with Yahoo! Groups and some sort of a digest option (of course, without top-posting in one's response ;-)) Deepa, Radhika thanks for the warm welcome and the support for both my ideas on getting into the Food business ;-) Charles, I sure do remember you from our work together though never could make it to one of your Poker parties when you were in Bangalore!! Cheeni, good to know there are other Googlers including yourself on the list. Thanks again everyone for the welcome and I look forward to enjoying the discussion on this list. Cheers, Amit
Re: [silk] Thanks for a warm welcome
Amit Somani wrote, [on 3/22/2009 5:15 PM]: Sorry for the delay in my response; I am trying to figure out how to make a GMail address work well with Yahoo! Groups While that may be a worthwhile project, it is not required for this list. For historical reasons, this list is *archived* on yahoo groups, but not *hosted* there. and some sort of a digest option (of course, without top-posting in one's response ;-)) You can set yuor membership to 'digest' here: http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/silklist Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate
2009/3/22 Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in: Ram will swing by on a curtain, brandishing his Smith and Wagah. Swat a Wagah, you mean. Ram
[silk] Major differences between Indian and Western music
Hello silklister, I am hoping that the many clever people on this list can provide me with some credible resources examining the major theoretical and practical differences between Indian and Western music, particularly the classical forms of each. I'm just an enthusiastic n00b, but some of what I've gathered so far: 1. Unlike Western music's equal temperament, Indian music is generally just-tempered, with small microtonal variations in notes of the scale between Gharanas. 2. Indian music does not generally use triads or chords (of course this is changing with the influence of Western music). 3. (following from 2 above) Indian music doesn't use counterpoint. This is common in every style of music from this region including western- influenced pop music (AR Rahman seems to be warming to the idea though!) 4. Where key changes are common in Western music, Indian music is more likely to feature rhythm shifts and poly-rhythms (this is one of the things I like about authentic bhangra drumming, as opposed to the repetitive crap in the movies with excruciatingly fake punjabi accents), esp looking at popular music of both Western and Indian music. Indian music rarely features key changes. 5. Many of the above points are null and void for jazz and blues, which enthusiastically embrace polyrhythms, microtones and amodality. 6. The harmonium is a horrible instrument that has no business being in any kind of music and must be eradicated for the benefit of all cultures.[1] What should I be reading to add to this list? Any other obvious differences I have missed? -Taj. [1] This is a fact, not an opinion. It doesn't matter if its easier to tune to a custom scale than any other piano-keyed instrument, a well-tuned pig- squeal is still a pig-squeal.
Re: [silk] Major differences between Indian and Western music
On 22-Mar-09, at 9:01 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: Hello silklister, I am hoping that the many clever people on this list can provide me with some credible resources examining the major theoretical and practical differences between Indian and Western music, particularly the classical forms of each. I'm just an enthusiastic n00b, but some of what I've gathered so far: Having suffered through Carnatic Classical music (on the violin) for about a decade and a half, here are a few of my observations (apart from yours, all of which I agree with, even the Harmonium bit) 1. Indian classical music generally involves much more improvisation than Western Classical, where the most leeway a performer has is restricted to interpretations in terms of tempo and other acoustic characteristics such as tremolo, sustain etc. A composition in Indian classical music is at most a loosely defined template for extensive improvisation. 2. Rhythm in Indian classical music has much more variety. Time signatures of 5/4, 7/4 and even 9/4 are pretty common. 3. While key changes are uncommon, they are not unheard of. In Carnatic concerts, one particular key change (to the fourth) is reasonably commonplace for certain kinds of compositions. For example, if a male vocalist generally sings in the key of C, he will shift to F for a song like Krishna Nee Begane Baaro. 4. The role of accompanying artistes (such as a violinist or a harmonium player) is very different from that of a western orchestra. A violinist in a Carnatic concert provides alternative improvisations for the Aalaapana (which is an exploration of the Raaga) and Kalpana Swara (which is an exploration of the raga set to beat) and also Niraval(explorations of actual song phrases), but does not stop at just doing that. The violinist still follows the vocalist, note for note when he is singing. There is also an unspoken rule that the accompanist shall not outdo the vocalist in musical creativity. It is considered rude to do so. 5. Indian Classical music has generally had an uneasy relationship with technology. My grandmother, who is 90, still reminisces about some of the performers of her age, who could hold forth without microphones. The acoustics at most concerts is still fairly atrocious, and it is perfectly acceptable for vocalists to clear their throats, percussionists to constantly tune their instruments (by beating them with a smooth stone, no less). In fact among Carnatic vocalists, voice training is not very common. Creativity and improvisation is valued more than a sonorous voice. Some of the stalwarts such as Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer had voices that could, rather literally, fall in the genre Industrial
Re: [silk] Thanks for a warm welcome
I second that emotion. Thanks for the warm welcome. And the incisive interchange that I've been a voyeur to in the past few days. I'll tell my native species, from the planet where the sentient race is logical and fair, to send back the assult fleet -- there is, indeed, intelligence on this watery rock. And Rock, as well. :-)
Re: [silk] Major differences between Indian and Western music
Could someone tell me why the harmonium is a terrible instrument? for sentimental reasons, i have recently requested my mother to bring my grandmom's harmonium as i am learning hindustani classical and it is my teacher's preferred instrument. all I know is that harmonium is either foreign or modified from the accordion and was introduced in the 19th century to India. I am interested to know what are the deficiencies versus say a Shruti box On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Krish Ashok krishas...@gmail.com wrote: On 22-Mar-09, at 9:01 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: Hello silklister, I am hoping that the many clever people on this list can provide me with some credible resources examining the major theoretical and practical differences between Indian and Western music, particularly the classical forms of each. I'm just an enthusiastic n00b, but some of what I've gathered so far: Having suffered through Carnatic Classical music (on the violin) for about a decade and a half, here are a few of my observations (apart from yours, all of which I agree with, even the Harmonium bit) 1. Indian classical music generally involves much more improvisation than Western Classical, where the most leeway a performer has is restricted to interpretations in terms of tempo and other acoustic characteristics such as tremolo, sustain etc. A composition in Indian classical music is at most a loosely defined template for extensive improvisation. 2. Rhythm in Indian classical music has much more variety. Time signatures of 5/4, 7/4 and even 9/4 are pretty common. 3. While key changes are uncommon, they are not unheard of. In Carnatic concerts, one particular key change (to the fourth) is reasonably commonplace for certain kinds of compositions. For example, if a male vocalist generally sings in the key of C, he will shift to F for a song like Krishna Nee Begane Baaro. 4. The role of accompanying artistes (such as a violinist or a harmonium player) is very different from that of a western orchestra. A violinist in a Carnatic concert provides alternative improvisations for the Aalaapana (which is an exploration of the Raaga) and Kalpana Swara (which is an exploration of the raga set to beat) and also Niraval(explorations of actual song phrases), but does not stop at just doing that. The violinist still follows the vocalist, note for note when he is singing. There is also an unspoken rule that the accompanist shall not outdo the vocalist in musical creativity. It is considered rude to do so. 5. Indian Classical music has generally had an uneasy relationship with technology. My grandmother, who is 90, still reminisces about some of the performers of her age, who could hold forth without microphones. The acoustics at most concerts is still fairly atrocious, and it is perfectly acceptable for vocalists to clear their throats, percussionists to constantly tune their instruments (by beating them with a smooth stone, no less). In fact among Carnatic vocalists, voice training is not very common. Creativity and improvisation is valued more than a sonorous voice. Some of the stalwarts such as Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer had voices that could, rather literally, fall in the genre Industrial
Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Peccavi. Isn't that in Pakistan? -- b It means I have committed a sin. It's in Latin. It was my way of apologising to Venkat and sending him away somewhere else before his rollicking sense of humour completely overwhelmed his dicretion. There is an urban legend linking this word to the province of Sind in Pakistan, and it depends on an awful pun. The pun only works if you translate that as I have sinned. BTW, I would have the thought the allusion would have been obvious -- where the heck else would those of us who missed out on a classical education have come across the word? :-) -- b
Re: [silk] Major differences between Indian and Western music
On Mar 23, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Radhika, Y. wrote: Could someone tell me why the harmonium is a terrible instrument? for sentimental reasons, i have recently requested my mother to bring my grandmom's harmonium as i am learning hindustani classical and it is my teacher's preferred instrument. all I know is that harmonium is either foreign or modified from the accordion and was introduced in the 19th century to India. I am interested to know what are the deficiencies versus say a Shruti box As I understand it - unlike a shruti box, the harmonium allows you to follow melody lines and to play the tonic drone in any key. Unlike other non-electronic piano-keyed instruments, it allows you to modify each note to fit a custom scale very easily, which is a requirement for Indian music. Unfortunately it sounds terrible doing all of this. -Taj.
Re: [silk] Major differences between Indian and Western music
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com wrote: Could someone tell me why the harmonium is a terrible instrument? The harmonium is extremely whiny. Its the instrumental equivalent of 10 hrs of K. L. Sehgal. Every time I here it I'm thinking deenyaan jalaaoonn... I can't remember the last time I heard the harmonium being the hero of a great performance. So is it just a teaching instrument? Can we do better? Adit.
Re: [silk] Major differences between Indian and Western music
well i am sitting in vancouver and don't have any control over the instrument used by my teacher-it is her decision! oh, well, i am learning to sing so hopefully the harmonium won't affect that too much. On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Aditya Kapil blue...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com wrote: Could someone tell me why the harmonium is a terrible instrument? The harmonium is extremely whiny. Its the instrumental equivalent of 10 hrs of K. L. Sehgal. Every time I here it I'm thinking deenyaan jalaaoonn... I can't remember the last time I heard the harmonium being the hero of a great performance. So is it just a teaching instrument? Can we do better? Adit.
