Re: [silk] silklist Digest, Vol 45, Issue 9

2013-08-20 Thread Bonobashi
Oh, great. Very well timed, Sir. VERY well timed.

Indrajit Gupta

On Aug 20, 2013, at 1:04 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 It's on Friday 30th, not Saturday 31st.



Re: [silk] Collateral damage

2013-08-20 Thread Bonobashi
No right to privacy yet, anywhere, but it has been argued in India that it 
exists. The leagles would know, surely.

Indrajit Gupta

On Aug 21, 2013, at 9:22 AM, SS cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, 2013-08-21 at 07:47 +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote:
 Shades of if you aren't doing anything wrong, why do you object? in
 your response. I'll revisit this later.
 
 Yes, but I will explain below. First let me respond to this quote
 
 
 its currency in a society. The Haunted Land, a book that delineates how
 East German society was completely reforged around the authority of
 secretly collected personal data illustrates how caustic routinized
 surveillance can become. Spouses ratted each other out to the
 authorities, in ways resonant with the odd stories of kids turning in
 their parents for smoking dope in the back yard. No one could have a
 personal life worthy of the name. In an environment of permanent
 legitimized electronic surveillance, you could argue the establishment
 of an East German scenario here is only a matter of time
 
 None of this is new. George Orwell predicted it. It happened in Stalin's
 Russia, and China has been well into this for decades. 
 
 Power and control have always meant control over what people say. The
 anger and indignation in my view comes from the idea that some free
 societies were somehow immune to this.
 
 To my mind the only way to counter this is by subversion from within the
 system, not by fighting the system. The system looks out for those who
 fight it. The system needs to be inundated with people who are doing no
 wrong. A world of sheeple who do not worry about surveillance makes it
 easier to look out for those who are avoiding surveillance. In my view
 the thing to do is to accept surveillance, embrace it, and set up the
 mechanism for subterfuge. Only that route can allow creative ways of
 spooking the system to emerge. 
 
 If I were a criminal, this is exactly what I would do. Surveillance is
 designed to discourage criminals (specifically terrorists) from using
 the existing system and restricting their ability to communicate and
 plan. A useful side effect for the government is that everyone gets
 watched. The criminal would be the last person to complain about being
 watched - only honest people do - although criminals might add to the
 protests acting like Honest people who genuinely want privacy simply
 as a political ploy to pressurize governments who are high on their
 ability to control. 
 
 I am not trying to criticize or mock anyone, but I have noticed that in
 America the constitution guarantees certain freedoms and those freedoms
 are being removed, leading to protests. If I extrapolate this I predict
 that there is an outside chance that Americans might win court battles
 that protect US citizens, but non US citizens will continue to face
 everything that can be thrown at them by way of control and monitoring.
 Under the circumstances,  I see no option other than to simply cooperate
 with the system and discover my own ways of doing what I might want to
 do in private.
 
 Incidentally is there a right to privacy?. I have no idea.
 
 shiv
 
 
 



Re: [silk] The weirdest languages

2013-07-06 Thread Bonobashi
Of course you are right. That is precisely why we speak Latin and Greek to this 
day.

Indrajit Gupta

On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:
 Much more, including the full spreadsheet with all 21 'weirdness
 features' for all the languages, at the URL below.
 
 Also, it amuses me that this list says the most 'normal' language is
 Hindi. :-)
 
 It depresses me a little to say this, but market share matters more
 than features in the end. The way we are headed in a hundred years or
 less we will all speak the same language out of practicality for the
 most part.
 
 It won't be the most technically efficient language, but the one
 geopolitics elects as the winner. English and Mandarin are the only
 two real contestants in this world view, and their present hegemony is
 thanks mainly to a violent imperial past, and has nothing to do with
 technical brilliance.
 



Re: [silk] The weirdest languages

2013-07-06 Thread Bonobashi
I have a headache. I think I shall retire from the fray, preferably to a Sri 
Lankan beach free of nerds who know too much.

Indrajit Gupta

On Jul 6, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 
 Of course you are right. That is precisely why we speak Latin and Greek to 
 this day.
 
 [I claim that] Cheeni is right, but he oversimplified to exclude Black
 Swans [1] like the Mule [2].
 
 Udhay, maniacally mixing and mangling metaphors
 
 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_%28Foundation%29
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 



Re: [silk] The weirdest languages

2013-07-06 Thread Bonobashi
Hmmm.

Would out of India and Aryan invasion theory have anything to do with this 
attack of jaundice, Shiv? Anything at all? No, nothing? Oh, all right, then. 
Just asked.

Indrajit Gupta

On Jul 6, 2013, at 2:41 PM, SS cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, 2013-07-05 at 17:49 +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote:
 Thoughts?
 
 I would say watch out! Don't take this stuff too seriously. Linguists
 have done a lot of bullshitting in the past and will continue to do so
 for the foreseeable future. University language departments don't get
 funding easily and they are quite capable of coming up with theories
 that attract the attention of some sucker who will fund them to come up
 with more crap.
 
 shiv
 
 



Re: [silk] The weirdest languages

2013-07-06 Thread Bonobashi
Summary in five words: 

Linguistics earns less than Medicine.

On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:08 PM, SS cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, 2013-07-06 at 15:23 +0530, Bonobashi wrote:
 Would out of India and Aryan invasion theory have anything to do with
 this attack of jaundice, Shiv? Anything at all? No, nothing? Oh, all
 right, then. Just asked.
 
 My late father, after acquiring the degrees BS, MS and PhD used to say
 that they stand for Bullshit, More of Same and Piled higher and deeper. 
 
 I thought it was a joke until I started digging into the work of
 linguistics departments. The bullshitting started decades, if not over a
 century ago. What we see today is stuff that is built upon the original
 stuff - piled higher and deeper.
 
 The big take away lesson that I got from that is when it comes to new
 language theories
 1. Be rigid
 2. Be aggressive 
 3. Misquote, misinterpret and mislead to your heart's content because no
 one else will understand it and linguists are all doing the same thing
 anyway.
 4. Accuse others of bigotry and less than honourable motives.
 
 Incidentally if you understood what was in that blog please post a
 summary in five words or less. 
 
 shiv
 
 
 
 
 



Re: [silk] The weirdest languages

2013-07-06 Thread Bonobashi
That was a five word summary of an existing text. I have been informed that a 
useful adage for the circumstances is GIGO.

Indrajit Gupta

On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:11 PM, Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 06, 2013 at 07:54:53PM +0530, Bonobashi wrote:
 Summary in five words: 
 
 Linguistics earns less than Medicine.
 
 Not so sure about that anymore.
 



Re: [silk] Intro!

2013-07-03 Thread Bonobashi
And worshipped by that class of women who prefer men never to get married, so 
that they themselves are always needed.

On Jul 2, 2013, at 7:46 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Ashwin Kumar ashw...@live.in wrote:
 
 
 If you want real entertainment, watch the new Mahadev serial. They add
 their own spice into mythology. I had never heard of Ganesha being married
 (at least in South Indian temples I have never seen Ganesha with his
 wives), or Shiva/Parvathi having a daughter.
 There was an article (on silk?) which mentioned an increase in number of
 Vaishno Devi temples after the cult classic Jai Maa Vaishno Devi.
 
 
 Alas, I am Sitting (Baby-sitting, actually, for two more silk-listers) in
 St.Louis, and the last thing I would wish for is a cable connection that
 gives me these serials :)
 
 But Ashwin...it may not be their own addition...there may be such folklore.
 I have a friend who says that in his part of Andhra Pradesh, Hanuman is
 married. His wife (as, indeed, many of the girls from that town, and my
 friend's wife, too) is called Suvarchala. This was the first time I'd ever
 heard of Anjaneya being married. Karthikeya (Murugan) is twice-married in
 south Indian mythology, but is a celibate in Bengal.
 
 



Re: [silk] Intro!

2013-07-03 Thread Bonobashi
I am surprised at your choice of Duryodhana, although so many have pointed to 
the large number who were loyal to him throughout as indicating his charisma. 
As far as the narration is concerned, he was a rich man's spoilt brat, used to 
having his own way, resentful and envious of his better endowed cousins, a 
thorough woman-hater, to a vindictive degree that bordered on the psychopathic, 
murderous and open to any ruse or strategy that would kill a hated opponent, 
manipulative and adept at using emotional blackmail on his elders - really find 
it difficult to understand your choice. 

On Jul 2, 2013, at 7:43 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Ashwin Kumar ashw...@live.in wrote:
 Karna and Duryodhana are my
 
 favourite characters from the Mahabharata.
 
 Interesting choice of characters. Why them?
 
 
 
 Karna...made his way in life, through the worst odds possible. I liked both
 the Tamizh movie about him and R S Manohar's play about him (no matter how
 much the melodrama.) He lost to Arjuna, only because of his promise to a
 mother who never did, or could, publicly recognize him as her son. Now,to
 drift my own thread, I enjoyed the mythological plays of R S Manohar very
 much, with their lavish sets and loud declamationsI saw him, just
 before his death, in one of the re-staging of his plays, and it was very
 pathetic.
 
 Duryodhana...though he is so reviled, I think that some of the things that
 the angelic Pandavas did were much worse than any of his actions. And he
 recognized Karna and honoured him for his qualities,not for his birth, when
 everyone else talked only about his being the son of a charioteer. In our
 caste-ridden Indian society, that's an example to emulate :)
 
 I am a hopeless romantic at heart!



Re: [silk] Intro!

2013-07-03 Thread Bonobashi
Hey! What a coincidence! Ram makes me sick too!

Oh, you meant Rama. Throw in Lakshman, that other back-stabbing four-flusher, 
and you have a deal.

Indrajit

On Jul 2, 2013, at 7:59 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian 
 sur...@hserus.netwrote:
 
 
 Much more understandable if you think of it in the terms of greek plays,
 with the concept of Hamartia, the fatal flaw.  Duryodhana's was an
 overbearing pride and jealousy.
 
 
 Therefore I like the Mahabharata with the real people much more than the
 idealized namby-pambies of the Ramayana :D Rama always made me sick, and my
 saying   this did not endear me to my relatives in the Tambram community.
 My parents were told that I was Not a Good Girl (with meaningful looks.)
 I'm afraid I have proved them Completely Correct.



Re: [silk] Intro!

2013-07-03 Thread Bonobashi
Sneak.

On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On 04-Jul-13 5:29 AM, Bonobashi wrote:
 
 Hey! What a coincidence! Ram makes me sick too!
 
 Oh, you meant Rama. Throw in Lakshman, that other back-stabbing 
 four-flusher, and you have a deal.
 
 Indrajit
 
 For the benefit of those listmembers who missed it, allow me to point
 out that it is only when this particular epic gets discussed that IG
 uses his 'real' name on silklist.
 
 Udhay
 



Re: [silk] Fwd: Wine tasting is bullshit. Here's why.

2013-05-29 Thread Bonobashi
One must share your well-founded fears. One might go so far as to say that one 
is apPauled.

On May 29, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 On 29 May 2013 18:39, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:
 
 The closest approximation to infinite threads (at least on silk) are
 pun cascades.
 
 
 Yoko. Here we go again.
 
 Ram



Re: [silk] India Considers Banning Pornography as Reported Sexual Assault Rises - NYTimes.com

2013-05-03 Thread Bonobashi
Not too bad an idea. 

Indrajit Gupta

On Apr 26, 2013, at 12:24 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 On 26 April 2013 12:06, Ingrid Srinath ingrid.srin...@gmail.com wrote:
 The problem with this scenario is that porn, increasingly violent porn, is 
 the only source of learning on the subject of sex for many boys/men.
 
 Young Indian men are taught from an early age, by movies, that sexual
 harassment and violence against women is the path to true love.
 
 Let's ban mainstream Indian cinema, then.
 
 Ram
 



Re: [silk] Intro

2013-04-03 Thread Bonobashi
You spelt the poor bugger's name wrong.

Bonobashi

On Apr 4, 2013, at 2:47 AM, Anish Mohammed anish.moham...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Frozencemetry,
 Welcome to the gang, might possibly share some acquaintances, as i happen to 
 be security researcher in the past and know a couple from CMU...
 Regards
 Anish 
 
 Anish Mohammed
 Twitter: anishmohammed
 http://uk.linkedin.com/in/anishmohammed
 
 On 3 Apr 2013, at 15:54, frozencemetery rharw...@club.cc.cmu.edu wrote:
 
 I've been told it's good form to post an introduction, so: hello!
 
 I'm a computer scientist and security researcher currently at Carnegie
 Mellon University.  I'm also a free speech, animal rights, and political
 activist, and am part of the Civic Counsel group (a not for profit that,
 when established, will promote free information, institutional
 transparency, personal privacy, and civic engagement through code,
 education, advocacy, and research.).  I think the Debian project is
 wonderful, though currently I am a Red Hat employee (and I neither speak
 for nor represent either organization).
 
 If this introduction's presentation seems weak, that's because it is;
 Tomasz created too hard of an act to follow.
 
 Cheers,
 --frozencemetery
 



Re: [silk] What is happiness?

2013-03-17 Thread Bonobashi
On Mar 17, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Shoba Narayan sh...@shobanarayan.com wrote:

 ing happiness possible. 
 
 For decades I have insisted that happiness is inside the head, between
 one's ears.
 
 Over 20 years ago when I used to live in the UK I found Indians who had
 achieved their dream of leading a wealthy life abroad lamenting that
 they wanted to go back to India. There were whiny and unhappy. 
 
 I was planning on going back to India anyway, but did not want to regret
 that I did not try something that I could have done. I had decided
 against the US simply because I had medical qualifications from India
 and the UK and had no intention of requalifying in the US at an age when
 I could be teaching my teachers something. 
 
 I decided to check out Canada. For me the checking out route meant
 buying a practice and what was available was a practice in the town of
 Wadena (pop 1000), Saskatchewan.I visited Bangalore briefly before going
 to Canada. In Bangalore I happened to meet the mother of a young man
 living in Saskatoon who instantly (and very kindly) arranged for me to
 use his home as base while I checked out Wadena, 60 odd miles away. She
 spoke glowingly of her son and his wife. They had double of everything.
 Two cars. Two TVs. Two whatnots. Four bathrooms. This was 1989. 
 
 In February 1989 I flew out to Toronto and thence to Saskatoon. I flew
 Wardair that served their food in Wedgwood crockery, and went out of
 business in a year or so. The temperature in Saskatoon was -20
 centigrade. My breath was freezing on my moustache. People who parked
 cars at the airport did not turn off their engines. Cheap oil. The
 couple I stayed with were very warm and hospitable. But they lamented
 that they wanted to be back in India. Look outside they said. 5 feet of
 snow. 
 
 Wadena had two hotels. One was called Hotel Motel where I got a room and
 spent a night. The mayor who had heard that a doctor was visiting came
 up in the morning and had breakfast with me. He was very friendly and
 genuinely welcoming. He drove me around that little town in his pick up
 truck. I asked him what there was to do in town, and he told me that I
 could go moose hunting on his estate and indicated that there were snow
 scooters I could use. I had visions of telling my wife to pick up the
 rifle and go moose hunting because I was held up at the clinic and that
 I would join her later. 
 
 Canada was not the place for me. I returned to India the next year.
 People in India were amazed that I was idiot enough to return to India
 after having made it in the west. I told them that I had been living
 in the north of England and had suffered a nervous breakdown. The
 previous summer I had seen a bright light in the sky that scared me
 witless leading to the breakdown. When I recovered people told me that
 the light was actually the sun. I had not seen the sun for 2 years in
 the north of England and had forgotten about it. Scary innit? 
 
 Happiness is in one's head. There is a digitized 8 mm home movie of me
 as a 4 year old child carrying a toy gun. I still love shooting. There
 is something compellingly satisfying about pulling a little lever
 attached to a pipe in front of you and seeing a Coke can explode dozens
 of yards away. I have received warning letters from the Society for
 Prevention of Cruelty to Tin cans. But what do I care? Happiness is
 doing things that you feel like doing. Things that relax you and keep
 your mind empty like that recently perforated Coke can.
 
 shiv
 
 
 Lovely writing, Shiv.

I agree, this needs - deserves public homage.



Re: [silk] Introductions

2013-03-11 Thread Bonobashi


Indrajit Gupta

On Mar 11, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I have a thesis that it depends is the correct answer to _any_
 technical question. I do not have a formal proof but I'm yet to come
 across a counter example.
 
 There is a marvelous proof, but this mailing list is too small to contain it.
 
 Udhay
 
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 



Re: [silk] Introductions

2013-03-11 Thread Bonobashi

On Mar 11, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I have a thesis that it depends is the correct answer to _any_
 technical question. I do not have a formal proof but I'm yet to come
 across a counter example.
 
 There is a marvelous proof, but this mailing list is too small to contain it.
 
 Udhay
 
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 

My understanding, based on rare and highly bewildering interactions with that 
tribe, is that IIM Ahmedabad discovered this and patented it thirty five years 
ago.


Re: [silk] Introductions

2013-03-11 Thread Bonobashi


Indrajit Gupta

On Mar 11, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 
 My understanding, based on rare and highly bewildering interactions with 
 that tribe, is that IIM Ahmedabad discovered this and patented it thirty 
 five years ago.
 
 It depends.
 
 -- b
 

In canonical form, It all depends..


Re: [silk] What is happiness?

2013-03-10 Thread Bonobashi
This is not funny. Cuts too close to the bone. You are hereby warned to cease 
and desist.

Indrajit Gupta

On Mar 11, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 We've discussed this here before (e.g. [1] [2]), but here's another
 worthwhile take, from a former colleague at Yahoo! and a recent silklister.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 Udhay
 
 [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silk-list/message/4965
 [2] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silk-list/message/37925
 
 http://blog.mizannethrope.com/post/45039337095/happiness-is-pine-sol-and-clorox-and-like-them-both
 
 Happiness is Pine Sol and Clorox and Like Them Both, Probably Toxic in
 Large Quantities
 
 Happiness. There are a lot of books written on this topic. I know
 because I’ve read them all. ALL of them. This is a matter that mankind
 has pursued throughout time. It’s fundamental to our very existence.
 It’s what separates us from the beasts of the wild. What is happiness?
 How do we get it? If we have it, how do we keep it? Or more precisely,
 how do we prevent ourselves from losing it? When we have it, how do we
 know we have it?
 
 I started seeing a therapist when my mother was diagnosed with advanced
 stomach cancer. I probably should have started years earlier. Years.
 Maybe at birth. One of the first things she asked me was, “What makes
 you happy?” I kind of stumbled when she asked that so she rephrased the
 question. “Can you tell me a time, recently, when you felt really happy?”
 
 After sitting there for a moment, I said the first thing that popped
 into my head. That’s what you are supposed to do in therapy, right? Not
 over-think the question but rather, respond naturally so you reveal your
 true self. So I told the unedited, unvarnished, unmitigated truth. Or as
 Oprah would say, I told MY truth. So here it is. I am happiest when….
 
 “The hour after the cleaning people leave my house. When everything is
 clean, orderly, and smells like Pine Sol. That’s when I am happiest.”
 
 You know you’ve achieved something when your therapist looks a little
 puzzled.
 
 I joke all the time about being OCD. In reality, I do not suffer from
 obsessive-compulsive disorder. At least not in a clinically diagnosable
 way. I really shouldn’t joke about it because plenty of people really do
 have debilitating issues associated with OCD. I am just a freak about
 tidiness and thus, my Twitter handle: @clean_freak.
 
 Many people apparently take me at face value. Ergo, some of my Twitter
 followers include: @scrubblingbubble, @cleanercleaning, @abhousekeeping,
 @goofoffpro (a cleaning agent, apparently), @acepressurewash, and
 @bugoffseatcover.
 
 I will readily admit that the smell of cleaning products makes me feel,
 well, happy. Those same products are probably going to give me brain
 cancer. Although to be clear, I’m not sniffing them in open containers
 like gasoline or airplane glue. The smell of cleaning products just
 gives me a weird feeling of comfort when I’m cleaning or otherwise at
 home. Like all things revealed in therapy, this too, can be traced back
 to my mother. My very Korean mother.
 
 Margaret Cho does a great routine about her Korean mother. After her mom
 suffered a heart attack, she came to live with Margaret. Her mother told
 her about her near-death experience. In broken English, she said to
 Margaret, “After I die, my spirit float out my body. I float far, far
 away. I go you house. I look down. Ay-gu! Why so messy?”
 
 And that folks, is probably what my mother is doing right now. Looking
 down at my house today and thinking, “Ay-gu! Why so messy?” (Because I
 was away on a business trip for 5 days, mom! Don’t judge me!)
 
 But to get back to my earlier point, what is happiness anyway? I think
 my initial response to my therapist hit the nail on the head. Happiness
 is not some big, grand destination. Or even some fanciful life-long
 journey. It’s the sum of all the little things. For me, it’s
 crystallized in that moment of peace and serenity when everything is
 just-so. In a house with 3 dogs and 3 kids, it’s rare. It’s the calm
 sense of accomplishment I feel when I am getting things done. Not huge
 things. Little things.
 
 I remember when I was in school, I’d get incredibly stressed during
 exams. I always thought I’d feel so relieved when they were over. But
 the moment I turned in my last test, the feeling of lightness I thought
 I’d have never materialized. Or if it did, it was never as uplifting as
 I imagined it would be. The quest for happiness seldom results in a
 sustainable sense of overwhelming joy. If it comes, it usually lasts
 only for a fleeting moment.
 
 And really, if you felt happy all the time, how would you know what it
 is to be happy?
 
 There is a beautiful passage in The Prophet -
 
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can
 contain.
 
Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in
 the potter’s oven?
 
 I read that to mean that to truly experience 

Re: [silk] Looking for Kolkata-Chinese who live in Singapore

2013-01-30 Thread Bonobashi

On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Adrianna Tan skinnyla...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hey guys,
 
 A friend of mine is on the search for Kolkata-Chinese people who live in
 Singapore.
 
 Let me know if anyone knows anyone!
 
 
 Adrianna Tan
 +65 9221 2066

There is a lurking member of the list, who should respond. Or is he no longer a 
member?


Re: [silk] Looking for Kolkata-Chinese who live in Singapore

2013-01-30 Thread Bonobashi
On Jan 31, 2013, at 7:49 AM, Adrianna Tan skinnyla...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 There is a lurking member of the list, who should respond. Or is he no
 longer a member?
 
 
 I don't know this person!

Looks like he's left the list. Let me get in touch with Tony aka Yang Yen-Thaw, 
and ask him to contact you.


Re: [silk] Looking for Kolkata-Chinese who live in Singapore

2013-01-30 Thread Bonobashi
On Jan 31, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:

 On Jan 31, 2013, at 7:49 AM, Adrianna Tan skinnyla...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 There is a lurking member of the list, who should respond. Or is he no
 longer a member?
 
 
 I don't know this person!
 
 Looks like he's left the list. Let me get in touch with Tony aka Yang 
 Yen-Thaw, and ask him to contact you.

I've just been informed that that person does not exist. In the case of the 
outrageous possibility that he does, anybody referring to him might cease to 
exist. 

I can take a hint. 

Bye, cruel list.


Re: [silk] Andy Deemer Does Bangalore Breakfast Joints

2013-01-29 Thread Bonobashi
On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Chew Lin Kay chewlin@gmail.com wrote:

 Tangetially related to starting the day right:
 
 http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/fighting-fat-at-india-inc-one-dosa-at-a-time/
 
 Fighting Fat at India Inc., One Dosa at a TimeBy SARITHA
 RAIhttp://india.blogs.nytimes.com/author/saritha-rai/
 [image: A screenshot of the]Courtesy of HealthifyMeA screenshot of the
 “HealthifyMe” application.
 LIFE AND LOVE IN THE NEW
 BANGALOREhttp://india.blogs.nytimes.com/category/life-and-love-in-the-new-bangalore/
 
 Tales of ambition and youth from India’s outsourcing hub.
 
 Six-footer Sanjay Jain is at least 15 kilograms (33 pounds) overweight at
 95 kilograms. Typical of many of his Bangalore peers, Mr. Jain puts on
 weight, loses weight and then starts the whole cycle anew.
 
 Like many professionals in Bangalore and urban Indians everywhere, Mr.
 Jain, 46, works late hours, trains in stops and bursts, and, until
 recently, paid scant attention to what, when and how much he ate.
 
 But a few months ago Mr. Jain, a software industry professional and a
 budding entrepreneur at the Silicon Valley venture capitalist Vinod
 Khosla’s Khosla Labs in Bangalore, decided to lose weight and signed up as
 a tester for an app called HealthifyMe. http://healthifyme.com/ For the
 first time, the vegetarian began measuring what he ate, not just in
 calories but also in nutritional content.
 
 Mr. Jain, who said he considered himself well educated about dietary
 choices, was jolted when he found out that his carbohydrate-laden diet
 contained barely any proteins. “I was stunned to see that 70 percent or
 more of my intake consisted of carbs, and it was a high-fat and low-protein
 diet,” he said.
 
 Mr. Jain’s struggle parallels that of HealthifyMe’s co-founder Tushar
 Vashisht, a University of Pennsylvania graduate and former investment
 banker who gained 18 kilograms within a year of returning to India to work
 for the country’s Unique Identity project.
 
 “Corporate India happened to me,” said Mr. Vashisht, who confessed that he
 used to unthinkingly order entire vegetarian menus at fast food restaurants.
 Courtesy of Tushar VashishtTwo of the co-founders of HealthifyMe, Tushar
 Vashisht, left, and Mathew Cherian.
 
 Starting on a fitness regimen was hard enough, but when it came to his
 diet, Mr. Vashisht said he was flummoxed. In a country of a billion-plus
 people and a food heritage of thousands of years, there was no easy way to
 track nutrition and calories in common Indian dishes. Calorie counters
 developed in the West could not tally the calories of Mr. Vashisht’s
 beloved Indian food.
 
 Around him in Bangalore, entrepreneurs were starting to tackle uniquely
 Indian problems by devising their own innovative technology solutions. So
 Mr. Vashisht, 28, and Mathew Cherian, also 28, a computer science graduate
 from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, set to work creating an
 application for the Indian diet. (Mr. Vashisht and Mr. Cherian once
 conducted a month-long experiment on the diet of poor Indians by living on
 100 rupees a 
 dayhttp://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/living-like-the-other-half/
 .)
 
 The two were joined later by a third co-founder, Sachin Shenoy, a holder of
 five patents who helped build many consumer products at Google.
 
 “India Inc. is a one-way ticket to being obese, diabetic and hypertensive,”
 said Mr. Vashisht, who cited a study by the Indian Council for Research on
 International Economic Relations that suggested that half of white-collar
 India is prone to lifestyle diseases and that 71 percent of the workforce
 and 82 percent of chief executives were overweight.
 
 “Living on salads is unworkable in India, so we need solutions that can
 work for our own food and eating culture,” he said.
 
 Mr. Vashisht and Mr. Cherian first digitized hundreds of pieces of data on
 Indian raw ingredients, with their micro- and macro-nutrient counts, from
 dusty files at the National Institute of Nutrition in Hyderabad. They
 integrated them with records from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
 database of 10,000 raw ingredients.
 
 After stitching the two together, they built a comprehensive database of
 nutritional values for thousands of standardized Indian recipes. With
 expert help from endocrinologists, dieticians and gym trainers, HealthifyMe
 is set to become the country’s first comprehensive calorie tracker for
 everything from thepla (a western Indian flatbread with greens) to bisibele
 bath (a rice and lentil dish from the south) to sabudana khichdi (a savory
 pudding made from sago pearls and peanuts).
 
 In India, even diet experts, fitness professionals and hospitals struggle
 to provide their clients accurate calorific counts and nutritional data,
 said Sheela Krishnaswamy, a clinical dietician based in Bangalore.
 
 “Making a database of all Indian foods across cuisines and regions and
 enumerating their key nutrients and calories is a 

Re: [silk] silklist Digest, Vol 38, Issue 9

2013-01-08 Thread Bonobashi
On Jan 8, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Dave Long dave.l...@bluewin.ch wrote:

 Encrusted, port-swilling diehards
 
 dluohs lla uoy kniht I dna ,seY
 be grateful that some of our
 retfa neve tcatni niamer srennam
 having swilled too much port ...
 I taht stseggus netfo noercanA
 respond to something on silk-list
 ni ylikcul tub ,nodehportsuob ni
 almost all these instances, the
 etilop fo snoitatsurcni gniniamer
 behavior *usually* restrain.
   evaD-
 
 
Boustrophedon yet. O tempora, o mores(I no longer have the energy to place 
an exclamation mark there, far less exclaim


Re: [silk] Why don't women write or reply more on Silk?

2013-01-08 Thread Bonobashi
On Jan 8, 2013, at 4:21 PM, Caitlin Marinelli caitlin.marine...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 For me, I guess, it's because I can't always meaningfully contribute.
 Also the two or three times I have posted something - I've gotten no
 response. I sent an article about strong women this morning for
 example - and it didn't get a response. Someones post yesterday about
 wine in Chennai got much more. Even when I've responded to others I
 find little personal response. Not sure if I'm posting things that
 don't interest the group, or if I'm not asking the right questions to
 elicit responses.
 
 -- 
 Caitlin Marinelli
 
 blog: http://caitlinmarinelli.wordpress.com/
 cell (Mumbai): +91 9820207217
 

Happens. Nothing to worry about. Just that nobody has anything pithy and 
properly epigrammatic to say back, or suitably encyclopaedic to make a building 
on  your argument.


Re: [silk] What's this word?

2013-01-07 Thread Bonobashi
The best of luck in your immortal quest.

Indrajit Gupta

On Jan 8, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 I am trying to recall a word for a figure of speech. It's a typical Brit
 thing where you deliberately make a really weak analogy (as slippery as
 a really slippery thing, or, as you can see below)
 
 Anyone?
 
 __
ZAPHODHey, this rock...
FORDMarble...
ZAPHODMarble...
FORDIce-covered marble...
ZAPHODRight... it's as slippery as... as... What's the slipperiest
 thing you can think of?
FORDAt the moment? This marble.
ZAPHODRight. This marble is as slippery as this marble.
 
 -- Zaphod and Ford trying to get a grip on things in Brontitall, Fit the
 Tenth.
 



Re: [silk] Why don't women write or reply more on Silk?

2013-01-07 Thread Bonobashi
True.

Indrajit Gupta

On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:47 AM, thew...@gmail.com wrote:

 But why is top posting a problem? Its an archaic and arbitrary dictum that is 
 largely meaningless today.
 Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
 From: Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com
 Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 21:57:05 -0800
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Subject: Re: [silk] Why don't women write or reply more on Silk?
 
 
 I thought I had better answer this - else it would be too ironic! I see you 
 and Deepa most often on Silk whereas the other women do seem absent. 
 Sometimes I don't reply because I am too afraid of top posting by mistake 
 (have been guilty a number of times!)
 
 Radhika


Re: [silk] Top-posting

2013-01-07 Thread Bonobashi
Encrusted, port-swilling diehards

Indrajit Gupta

On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:52 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 11:47 AM,  thew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 But why is top posting a problem? Its an archaic and arbitrary dictum that
 is largely meaningless today.
 
 Groan. Not this again. There are very good reasons for NOT
 top-posting, to do with the way humans process information, as well as
 having the courtesy to not append enormous amounts of cognitive junk
 to your postings.
 
 I recognise that many mail clients and platforms almost force people
 to top-post, which is why I don't usually make too much of a fuss.
 However, it continues to be a rule of the list. Your breaking the rule
 is being overlooked due to the fact that your mail client is poorly
 designed, but that doesn't make it a virtue.
 
 Udhay
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 



Re: [silk] Chennai Silk meet this week?

2012-12-31 Thread Bonobashi
You should explain that Khader Nawaz Road is due west from Mylapore, whereas 
Adyar is due south.

Indrajit Gupta

On Jan 1, 2013, at 12:15 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote:

 Well, khader nawaz khan road is within half an hour of mylapore.  And so am 
 I, in Adyar.
 
 By taxi of course, I wouldn't recommend walking.
 
 --srs (iPad)
 
 On 01-Jan-2013, at 11:59, Chew Lin Kay chewlin@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Wait confused now. Which location for the 12 and which for the 19?
 
 Am doing a walk in Mylapore on the morning of the 19th, so will appreciate 
 somewhere in that general vicinity (that being relative, for some for a 
 country known euphemistically as the little red dot)
 
 



Re: [silk] Fifteen

2012-12-06 Thread Bonobashi
Some more need to be in on this, Anil, as I am myself uncertain about that date 
and about Delhi later this month at all. Your best bet might be to be in 
Bangalore itself, chicken-hearted though that might sound.

Indrajit Gupta

On Dec 6, 2012, at 12:15 AM, Anil Kumar anilkumar.naga...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 
 
 
 On Dec 5, 2012, at 22:48, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 
 Cal or Delhi, anyone?
 
 Indrajit Gupta
 
 I'm in if it's in Delhi.
 
 
 On Dec 5, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I'm in. 
 Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com
 Sender: silklist-bounces+nikhil.mehra773=gmail@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 14:27:05 
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Subject: Re: [silk] Fifteen
 
 On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Absolutely.
 
 So let's say 7pm Friday 21st December, at a place To Be Named Later. :)
 
 Works for all?
 
 Udhay
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 
 
 



Re: [silk] Fifteen

2012-12-05 Thread Bonobashi
Cal or Delhi, anyone?

Indrajit Gupta

On Dec 5, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm in. 
 Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com
 Sender: silklist-bounces+nikhil.mehra773=gmail@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 14:27:05 
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Subject: Re: [silk] Fifteen
 
 On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Absolutely.
 
 So let's say 7pm Friday 21st December, at a place To Be Named Later. :)
 
 Works for all?
 
 Udhay
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 



Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-15 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 15, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 Bonobashi is forest dweller, not forester. Subtle, but present.
 
 Oh, like Kattukaran? You're not related to Gabin by any chance, are you?
 
 -- b
 


No, no, I'm not, we're not related. Forest dwellers are not related to anybody. 
They are shy creatures who avoid the glare and noise of the outer world, and 
keep to themselves. As you have noticed.


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-15 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 15, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote:

 that's a thought. next long weekend silkmeet in a jungle lodge type place 
 like kabini
 
 --srs (iPad)
 
 On 15-Oct-2012, at 11:59, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Oct 15, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 Bonobashi is forest dweller, not forester. Subtle, but present.
 
 Oh, like Kattukaran? You're not related to Gabin by any chance, are you?
 
 -- b
 shiver
 
 

losing hope

Is nothing sacred? Imagine my frayed nerves, at the mere thought of more than 
three silk-listers gathered together, drifting threads. Imagine the ecological 
damage. Imagine the economic consequences of, say, three silk-listers 
abstaining, ALL AT THE SAME TIME, from productive work. Why can't you meet in 
Pecos or something?


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-15 Thread Bonobashi
Three, three. You and he, however charitably we look at the primordial merit 
oozing out of you two, still make one less than three. 

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 15, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On 15-Oct-12 12:06 PM, Bonobashi wrote:
 
 Imagine my frayed nerves, at the mere thought of more than three 
 silk-listers gathered together, drifting threads. Imagine the ecological 
 damage. Imagine the economic consequences of, say, three silk-listers 
 abstaining, ALL AT THE SAME TIME, from productive work.
 
 Ram, I believe that was your cue.
 
 Udhay
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 



Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-15 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 15, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 threads. Imagine the ecological damage. Imagine the economic consequences 
 of, say, three silk-listers abstaining, ALL AT
 THE SAME TIME, from productive work. Why can't you meet in Pecos or 
 something?
 
 Productive work? Silklisters? They're all too busy plotting thread
 drift (and bad puns) to bother with work.
 
 -- b
 
Unkind, very. Silk-listers arrive at the list after sailing through their work. 
We might make an exception for Shiv. The imagination boggles at the thought of 
him sailing through HIS work.


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-15 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 Not fair to Noddy. This is a chestnut, which, considering its vintage, may be 
 considered fresh maal once again. It dates back to the Anglo-Indian era in 
 quizzing, when one could ask the QM to hang on until one explained to a 
 skeptical bearer exactly what was going wrong with the gin-and-lime.
 
 ...eheu, fugacesand all that.
 
 
 Perhaps I should explain my reasoning. One does not find many contemporary 
 uses of the term Mau plateau. The region these days is referred to as 
 Central Province (shortened to Central). Most references to Mau plateau 
 that I have across are online, and a majority of them are about Kenya being 
 considered as a potential home for the Jewish people.  So when I find someone 
 using a dated phrasing I muttered to myself o tempora, o moraes and  fired 
 off a reply.
 
 
 Actually the part of the Mau Plateau that was promised to the Jews was not 
 what is covered by the modern Central Province (that was already by then 
 becoming the White Highlands ) ... but the part of the Mau plateau that 
 extends into Rift Valley province and Western province (think going east from 
 Mt. Elgon - including parts of uganda  and West from Nakuru .. ) 
 
 

Coming hot on the heels of Thaths and his blasted o tempora, o Frank instead 
of the usual, hackneyed orthography, one is pleased to see that the practice of 
putting an 'actually' before a particularly conclusive dismissal of another 
citizen's opinion continues. Rule, Britannia

Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-15 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 15, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Dave Long dave.l...@bluewin.ch wrote:

 ... it would only inflame passions to point out that it should be a chukkah, 
 played for 7 1/2 minutes, on old regimental polo grounds ...
 
 In the spirit of distinguishing chassepôt rifles from javelins, a bit of 
 pedantry:
 
 7 1/2, unless it's the last chukka (and unless a penalty has been awarded 
 within the last 5 seconds of the last chukka)
 
 Polo?  inflame passions?  Never.  (what, never?)  Well, hardly ever...
 
 -Dave
 
 cf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlHb3NOhEE8 (but only if you wish to wait 
 almost 3 minutes to actually see some polo, compared to the argies
 http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/videohub/video/clipDeportes?id=1434118cc=7586
  who manage to get the action going in about 45 seconds)
 

But of course, Dave.

It's a pity those two old buzzards never did one on polo, although Joe Shearer 
had started CPC in 1861, and they started their musicals ten years after that. 
I suppose the closest they got was a thoroughly modern Major General; Joe was a 
Major General, after all.


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-15 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:21 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 On 16 October 2012 02:04, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com wrote:
  As a Bambaiyya ex-colleague of mine used to say, gaand faadke darwaza bana 
  diya.
 
 I know, replying to oneself, and bad form, and all that sort of stuff...
 
 but I think that's one line where I could have added /rimshot.
 
 Now you are being fecestious.
 
 Thaths


Hmm. Demands introspection?


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-13 Thread Bonobashi
On Oct 13, 2012, at 7:28 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote:

 bonobashis should know all about foresters
 
 --srs (iPad)
 
 On 13-Oct-2012, at 7:10, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Oct 13, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 And I suppose it would only inflame passions to point out that it should be 
 a chukkah, played for 7 1/2 minutes, on old regimental polo grounds, and 
 other polo grounds alike. I write in my alter ego of 'Joe Shearer', of 
 course.
 
 Sure your English alter ego ought to be Joe Forester.
 
 Why Joe Forester? What did he do for the game?
 
  
 Thaths
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
 

groan

Bonobashi is forest dweller, not forester. Subtle, but present.

Joe Shearer was an historical character.

Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-12 Thread Bonobashi
.and how would i/we cope with mili-metternichs left with nothing to 
criticize?

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 12, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Naresh xxx...@yahoo.com wrote:

 BTW that's half-point kodi.Ahh! these long term Bangalorevaasis who don't 
 know Kannada yet...and living in Malleswaram too!!
 
 
 On 11-Oct-2012, at 8:40 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 
 aiyo!
 
 seri, parvagilla, half-point kuri, saar.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:31 PM, xxxrum xxx...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 Facebook sirji not yearbook!!!
 
 
 Sent from Samsung Mobile
 
 Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 Dear Noddy,
 
 In my enthusiasm to celebrate your impending beatification, I forgot; 
 Brandy, Yearbook, Humpty Dumpty and Hymen. I have little or nothing to do 
 with the world of figures.
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [silk] Quiz help

2012-10-12 Thread Bonobashi
Allahabad - that's where the east-west midpoint was determined, and the time 
zone derived from that .

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 12, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Naresh xxx...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Thanks everyone for the quiz help (more audio -visual question banks welcome) 
  and Mr Bonobashi for the encouraging noises!!
 
 
 I always wondered about this...Mr Cecil from The Straight Dope has nailed it..
 
 Naresh
 
 Why is India 30 minutes out of step with everybody else?
 
 June 5, 1981
 Dear Cecil:
 
 It must be these uncertain times, but once again I find myself coming to you 
 to find the solution to a tantalizing enigma. In banks and other places that 
 want to give that continental effect, one sees rows of clocks showing the 
 time in various locales--New York, Paris, London--you know what I mean, being 
 a man of the world. Anyway, the hour hand varies, but the minute hand is 
 always the same--except for Bombay! It's always half an hour off. Or is the 
 rest of the world half an hour off? I'm very concerned about this. Please 
 explain so if I ever go to Bombay I can set my watch correctly.
 
 — Garnet J., Seattle
 
 Dear Garnet:
 
 Bombay, and India generally, isn't the only place chronometrically out of 
 step with the rest of the world. Lots of countries, particularly in Asia, are 
 a half-hour out of sync, including Burma, Sri Lanka, and Afghanistan.
 
 Some have even stranger quirks. If my handy time-zone map here is to be 
 believed--I am a little dubious about some of it--Nepal is 40 minutes off the 
 mark. Saudi Arabia, ever the trailblazer, has some bizarre system in which 
 clocks are supposedly reset to midnight every day at sunset. Keeping one's 
 watch properly attuned aboard the Riyadh-Rangoon express must be an 
 exhausting experience.
 
 All of this traces back to the haphazard system of timekeeping prevalent 
 before the 1884 Washington conference that established Greenwich Mean Time 
 (GMT) as the international reference point. The conferees divided the world 
 into 24 zones, the time in each of which was  to differ from a whole number 
 of hours from GMT.
 
 Prior to this, people made use of local mean time, i.e., they figured out 
 approximately when the sun was directly overhead, called that noon, and went 
 from there. City A's time would thus differ by some odd number of minutes 
 from that of cities B and C to the east and west. For instance, in 1880, 
 England established two times zones for the British Isles--GMT for England, 
 and Dublin Mean Time, 25 minutes earlier (or later, depending on how you look 
 at it), for Ireland.
 
 After the standardization conference, most countries rounded off their 
 local time, as it were, so that it differed by a whole hour(s) from GMT and 
 from adjoining time zones. But some, for reasons of geography or politics, 
 rounded off to the half-hour. Newfoundland, for example, was (I think) three 
 hours, 35 minutes, and some seconds behind GMT before standardization, and 
 elected to round off to three hours, 30 minutes--owing, I suppose, to the 
 native perversity of its inhabitants, who delighted in being out of sync with 
 the rest of Canada.
 
 India, as it happens straddles two time zones, but for obvious reasons 
 preferred to have one uniform time throughout the country. Rather than choose 
 between GMT+5 and GMT+6 (which would make dawn and dusk in the far reaches of 
 the country either unusually early or unusually late), the government 
 apparently decided to split the difference. I can't explain Saudi Arabia, but 
 nobody else ever has either.
 
 — Cecil Adams
 
 
 
 On 11-Oct-2012, at 8:38 PM, Ingrid Srinath ingrid.srin...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Do peruse: 
 http://old.qi.com/links/
 
 Especially:
 
 http://www.straightdope.com/
 
 
 Ingrid Srinath
 
 


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-12 Thread Bonobashi
Not fair to Noddy. This is a chestnut, which, considering its vintage, may be 
considered fresh maal once again. It dates back to the Anglo-Indian era in 
quizzing, when one could ask the QM to hang on until one explained to a 
skeptical bearer exactly what was going wrong with the gin-and-lime.

...eheu, fugacesand all that.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 12, 2012, at 11:46 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Mau plateau, Kenya
 
 Did you use web search in coming up with the answer?
 
 Which bring me to the reason I have moved away from quizzing circles. Web 
 search, Wikipedia and Google book search have not only made it unnecessary to 
 remember obscure trivia but also made the lives of quiz masters easier. Quiz 
 masters can now ask questions (to the strain of Humpty Dumpty, no less) about 
 little known cannons in Colchester without needing the ability to locate 
 Essex on a map or knowing who fought whom in the English Civil War.
 
 Thaths
 
  
 Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
 From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com
 Sender: silklist-bounces+nikhil.mehra773=gmail@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:36:59 -0700
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Subject: Re: [silk] quiz help
 
 Speaking of abstruse trivia
 
 1. How are the Indian Railways and the San Francisco-Bay Area BART linked?
 
 2. In 1903 the British government offered to home 5,000 square miles of land 
 to the World Zionist Organization to set up a homeland for the Jews. The 
 offer was declined in 1905. Where was this land that could have become the 
 new Israel?
 
 Thaths
 
 
 
 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:20 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:
  I must thank this thread. You people just gifted me one of the quiz
 
 Tcchah, I meant, one round of the quiz.
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
 
 
 
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-12 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 13, 2012, at 4:22 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 Not fair to Noddy. This is a chestnut, which, considering its vintage, may be 
 considered fresh maal once again. It dates back to the Anglo-Indian era in 
 quizzing, when one could ask the QM to hang on until one explained to a 
 skeptical bearer exactly what was going wrong with the gin-and-lime.
 
 ...eheu, fugacesand all that.
 
 
 Perhaps I should explain my reasoning. One does not find many contemporary 
 uses of the term Mau plateau. The region these days is referred to as 
 Central Province (shortened to Central). Most references to Mau plateau 
 that I have across are online, and a majority of them are about Kenya being 
 considered as a potential home for the Jewish people.  So when I find someone 
 using a dated phrasing I muttered to myself o tempora, o moraes and  fired 
 off a reply.
 
 Now that you mention the Ango-Indian quizzing milieu, I am forced to mutter a 
 mea culpa and admit that, for a chappie of the sort you describe, Mau 
 plateau is as pucca as a chakar around the old regimental polo grounds.
 
 Thaths

And I suppose it would only inflame passions to point out that it should be a 
chukkah, played for 7 1/2 minutes, on old regimental polo grounds, and other 
polo grounds alike. I write in my alter ego of 'Joe Shearer', of course.

 
  
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Oct 12, 2012, at 11:46 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Mau plateau, Kenya
 
 Did you use web search in coming up with the answer?
 
 Which bring me to the reason I have moved away from quizzing circles. Web 
 search, Wikipedia and Google book search have not only made it unnecessary 
 to remember obscure trivia but also made the lives of quiz masters easier. 
 Quiz masters can now ask questions (to the strain of Humpty Dumpty, no less) 
 about little known cannons in Colchester without needing the ability to 
 locate Essex on a map or knowing who fought whom in the English Civil War.
 
 Thaths
 
  
 Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
 From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com
 Sender: silklist-bounces+nikhil.mehra773=gmail@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:36:59 -0700
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Subject: Re: [silk] quiz help
 
 Speaking of abstruse trivia
 
 1. How are the Indian Railways and the San Francisco-Bay Area BART linked?
 
 2. In 1903 the British government offered to home 5,000 square miles of land 
 to the World Zionist Organization to set up a homeland for the Jews. The 
 offer was declined in 1905. Where was this land that could have become the 
 new Israel?
 
 Thaths
 
 
 
 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:20 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:
  I must thank this thread. You people just gifted me one of the quiz
 
 Tcchah, I meant, one round of the quiz.
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
 
 
 
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
 
 
 
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-12 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 13, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 And I suppose it would only inflame passions to point out that it should be a 
 chukkah, played for 7 1/2 minutes, on old regimental polo grounds, and other 
 polo grounds alike. I write in my alter ego of 'Joe Shearer', of course.
 
 Sure your English alter ego ought to be Joe Forester.

Why Joe Forester? What did he do for the game?

  
 Thaths
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-11 Thread Bonobashi
Dear Noddy,

I am glad to tell you that you are a dead duck. It is probable that KQA 
members, the geriatrics, at any rate, will eat you alive when you turn up with 
only five questions. It was against this greatest nightmare for any wanna-be QM 
that Neil and Son maintain question banks of some 10 to 15,000 questions.

if you survive your ordeal, do let us have a blow-by-blow account.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 11, 2012, at 7:33 PM, Naresh xxx...@yahoo.com wrote:

 
 Dear Silklisters
 
 I have to set a quiz for a bunch of 50 somethings (part of a quiz group that 
 i have been in for the past 20 yrs) and horror of horrors;it is on this 
 saturday 13th october...And I totally forgot..
 Can the group point me to web resources (not the competition success kind 
 ,please) or any ready compilations  that can be shared with me urgently? The 
 questions have to be of a general nature , not too esoteric and guessable and 
 above all interesting..And definitely not too highbrow!!!  My direct email is 
 xxx...@yahoo.com
 
 Please do help..some of the questions I have put together to give you a 
 flavour are below.Audio visual questions are a great hit too!!!  I have 
 Gangnam style already!!! I need about 150 questions...
 
 
 1.   In 1512, a Dutch merchant searching for ways to transport large 
 quantities of wine found that by boiling the wine he could remove the water 
 in it and thus transport more wine in the same volume. At the destination, he 
 would just add the missing water. But he found that people were more 
 interested in the boiled concentrate than the wine and made a killing by 
 selling the boiled concentrate. How do we better know this boiled concentrate?
 
 2.   What is the common name for a college publication distributed at the 
 start of the academic year by university administrations with the intention 
 of helping students get to know each other better? 
 
 3.   According to the website of the Colchester tourist board, during the 
 English Civil War a large cannon was placed strategically on the wall of the 
 castle. A shot from the parliamentary army managed to destroy the wall under 
 the cannon and caused it to tumble to the ground. The Cavaliers (who were 
 loyal to the King) tried to raise the cannon but could not do so as it was 
 too heavy. What was the name of the cannon and how has it been immortalized?
 
 4.   Accordingly to Greek mythology, he is the God of Marriage and 
 specifically the Marriage Hymn. He holds a burning torch in one hand and is 
 considered the protector of female virginity. Which God?
 
 5.   What are algorithms like the layer method, the block method, the 
 corner method and the super-flip used to solve?
 
 Probably a nice exercise to answer these too
 
 Thanks in advance
 Naresh
 


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-11 Thread Bonobashi
Dear Noddy,

In my enthusiasm to celebrate your impending beatification, I forgot; Brandy, 
Yearbook, Humpty Dumpty and Hymen. I have little or nothing to do with the 
world of figures.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 11, 2012, at 7:33 PM, Naresh xxx...@yahoo.com wrote:

 
 Dear Silklisters
 
 I have to set a quiz for a bunch of 50 somethings (part of a quiz group that 
 i have been in for the past 20 yrs) and horror of horrors;it is on this 
 saturday 13th october...And I totally forgot..
 Can the group point me to web resources (not the competition success kind 
 ,please) or any ready compilations  that can be shared with me urgently? The 
 questions have to be of a general nature , not too esoteric and guessable and 
 above all interesting..And definitely not too highbrow!!!  My direct email is 
 xxx...@yahoo.com
 
 Please do help..some of the questions I have put together to give you a 
 flavour are below.Audio visual questions are a great hit too!!!  I have 
 Gangnam style already!!! I need about 150 questions...
 
 
 1.   In 1512, a Dutch merchant searching for ways to transport large 
 quantities of wine found that by boiling the wine he could remove the water 
 in it and thus transport more wine in the same volume. At the destination, he 
 would just add the missing water. But he found that people were more 
 interested in the boiled concentrate than the wine and made a killing by 
 selling the boiled concentrate. How do we better know this boiled concentrate?
 
 2.   What is the common name for a college publication distributed at the 
 start of the academic year by university administrations with the intention 
 of helping students get to know each other better? 
 
 3.   According to the website of the Colchester tourist board, during the 
 English Civil War a large cannon was placed strategically on the wall of the 
 castle. A shot from the parliamentary army managed to destroy the wall under 
 the cannon and caused it to tumble to the ground. The Cavaliers (who were 
 loyal to the King) tried to raise the cannon but could not do so as it was 
 too heavy. What was the name of the cannon and how has it been immortalized?
 
 4.   Accordingly to Greek mythology, he is the God of Marriage and 
 specifically the Marriage Hymn. He holds a burning torch in one hand and is 
 considered the protector of female virginity. Which God?
 
 5.   What are algorithms like the layer method, the block method, the 
 corner method and the super-flip used to solve?
 
 Probably a nice exercise to answer these too
 
 Thanks in advance
 Naresh
 


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-11 Thread Bonobashi
aiyo!

seri, parvagilla, half-point kuri, saar.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:31 PM, xxxrum xxx...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Facebook sirji not yearbook!!!
 
 
 Sent from Samsung Mobile
 
 Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 Dear Noddy,
 
 In my enthusiasm to celebrate your impending beatification, I forgot; Brandy, 
 Yearbook, Humpty Dumpty and Hymen. I have little or nothing to do with the 
 world of figures.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Oct 11, 2012, at 7:33 PM, Naresh xxx...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 Dear Silklisters
 
 I have to set a quiz for a bunch of 50 somethings (part of a quiz group that 
 i have been in for the past 20 yrs) and horror of horrors;it is on this 
 saturday 13th october...And I totally forgot..
 Can the group point me to web resources (not the competition success kind 
 ,please) or any ready compilations  that can be shared with me urgently? The 
 questions have to be of a general nature , not too esoteric and guessable 
 and above all interesting..And definitely not too highbrow!!!  My direct 
 email is xxx...@yahoo.com
 
 Please do help..some of the questions I have put together to give you a 
 flavour are below.Audio visual questions are a great hit too!!!  I have 
 Gangnam style already!!! I need about 150 questions...
 
 
 1.   In 1512, a Dutch merchant searching for ways to transport large 
 quantities of wine found that by boiling the wine he could remove the water 
 in it and thus transport more wine in the same volume. At the destination, 
 he would just add the missing water. But he found that people were more 
 interested in the boiled concentrate than the wine and made a killing by 
 selling the boiled concentrate. How do we better know this boiled 
 concentrate?
 
 2.   What is the common name for a college publication distributed at 
 the start of the academic year by university administrations with the 
 intention of helping students get to know each other better? 
 
 3.   According to the website of the Colchester tourist board, during 
 the English Civil War a large cannon was placed strategically on the wall of 
 the castle. A shot from the parliamentary army managed to destroy the wall 
 under the cannon and caused it to tumble to the ground. The Cavaliers (who 
 were loyal to the King) tried to raise the cannon but could not do so as it 
 was too heavy. What was the name of the cannon and how has it been 
 immortalized?
 
 4.   Accordingly to Greek mythology, he is the God of Marriage and 
 specifically the Marriage Hymn. He holds a burning torch in one hand and is 
 considered the protector of female virginity. Which God?
 
 5.   What are algorithms like the layer method, the block method, the 
 corner method and the super-flip used to solve?
 
 Probably a nice exercise to answer these too
 
 Thanks in advance
 Naresh
 


Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-11 Thread Bonobashi
Oh, you poor thing! Dyslexic, and you didn't even know!

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 11, 2012, at 9:55 PM, SS cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 19:33 +0530, Naresh wrote:
 quiz for a bunch of 50 somethings 
 I thought people over 50 did not have enough brain cells left for a
 quiz. Luckily for me I'm only 25
 
 shiv
 
 



Re: [silk] quiz help

2012-10-11 Thread Bonobashi
what happened to KQA?

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 12, 2012, at 7:34 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:43 PM,  surabhi.to...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 I have to set a quiz for a bunch of 50 somethings (part of a quiz group 
 that i have been in for the past 20 yrs) and horror of horrors;it is on 
 this saturday 13th october...And I totally forgot..
 
 
 I thought Deepa was supposed to be the qm this month?
 
 This seems to be a different quiz group, Surabhi. I *am* conducting
 the quiz for QuizFamilies and Saturdaywhy don't Vinit,Vir and you
 come by at least for a while? It's at Subash's place.
 
 I'd like to know about other quiz groups in Bangalore.The one I've
 been part of since 1992, and which I've been moderating for more than
 a decade now, is called QuizFamilies, and we meet once a month.
 
 Our quizzing is not very intense, the object is to make a lot of noise :)
 
 Deepa.
 



Re: [silk] musings on identity and culture.

2012-08-31 Thread Bonobashi
That is true.

Soon, there will be no S N**. Ram has been engaged for the job, and is 
waiting for the next flight out.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 1, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:
 Or, if you prefer, identity and culture.
 
 I was looking at this morning's edition of Mint Lounge [1] and I noticed
 that Shoba's column for today [2] namechecks silklist while talking
 about where to eat in Chennai. :)
 
 I thought we shot listers who mention silk to people who don't know
 the secret handshake.
 
 -- b
 



Re: [silk] LOTR and Ayn Rand

2012-08-08 Thread Bonobashi
I think we are reading too much into these works in politically correct 
hindsight. There is no getting away from the fact that Sanders of the River 
(and Major Hamilton, and Lt. Bones), Biggles, Bulldog Drummond - for that 
matter, even Billy Bunter - were racist somewhere deep below, but this was an 
irritant that one just brushed aside and got on with reading the breathtaking 
stuff. It was racist times, and the only good native was the brave, upright 
native chief, sometimes one with an endearing rascally streak in him, all the 
more to separate him out from the prim WOGs whom it was meet and proper to 
despise - even for prim WOGs reading the tales. There was simply no alternative 
narrative, not unless one dived into Bankimchandra, or a delightful series 
about a teenager in Maratha times called Sadashiv-er Hoi Hoi Kando. Stirring 
stuff, both sets, and so orthogonal to Anglo-Indian narrative that the 
contradictions didn't come up. Not until Kim, anyway. The babu in Kim was a 
real person, btw, who led an unbelievable life beggaring anything that Sandy 
Arbuthnot might have dreamt of. Kipling was nothing if not ambiguous. 

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Landon Hurley ljrhur...@gmail.com wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA512
 
 On 08/08/2012 03:17 AM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram wrote:
 On 8 August 2012 12:24, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:
 Udhay (first encountered LotR and Rand in high school, disliked both on 
 sight)
 
 I read them both in high school as well. I found Rand hard to read, as
 you could see the point some 2000 words before she got there, but
 slogged through all her fiction because they came highly recommended.
 
 Tolkien was a tedious read too, but the Peter Jackson movies made them
 watchable, unlike the Rand movies. I read the books again with my son,
 and realised that I had missed the racism completely the first time.
 
 Ram
 
 Perhaps because of my own misfortune in being raised catholic, I always
 interpreted the colour symbolism to be more demons vs angels than any
 ethnic biases. Now one could make the strong argument that these colour
 choices are directly drawn from ethnic divisions, but I don't think of
 that as racist, just inheriting the dichotomy and symbolism of previous
 generations. That certainly hasn't changed even today, and tbh,
 introducing novel symbolism to address this seems beyond the scope of
 his writing, as well as tedious, because it makes the writing less
 accessible.
 
 If I recall correctly, there also wasn't a discrete equation between
 good and evil, black and white. Gandalf was grey originally, which is,
 as I interpret it, a cross between his pursuit of magic, an unearthly
 power (thus white), and his constant involvement in ordinary affairs,
 that of mortals. So his purpose is mixed. Furthermore, there is Saurumon
 the White, who, if I recall correctly, was almost exclusively involved
 in the ethereal, but was ultimately completely evil. LOTR certainly was
 an epic, but I never felt that there was anything ridiculously deep
 about the symbolism. Then again, I haven't read it since elementary school.
 
 //landon
 
 - -- 
 Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
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 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
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Re: [silk] LOTR and Ayn Rand

2012-08-08 Thread Bonobashi
Regarding the class system that Tolkien depicts, it was the fairly rigid class 
system that still existed in his time which comes through without much 
conscious effort. That is the way it was, and a look at Sir Nigel or The White 
Company will tell us oodles more about it, again in spontaneous form.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 8, 2012, at 10:53 PM, Heather Madrone heat...@madrone.com wrote:

 On 8/8/12 8:36 AM August 8, 2012, ss wrote:
 On Wednesday 08 Aug 2012 12:47:58 pm Ramakrishnan Sundaram wrote:
 Tolkien was a tedious read too, but the Peter Jackson movies made them
 watchable, unlike the Rand movies. I read the books again with my son,
 and realised that I had missed the racism completely the first time.
 I am re reading those Tolkien books right now. I'm afraid I haven't yet got 
 to
 parts that I can say are definitely racist. I am about 30% through - with my
 first reading having been done about 30 years ago.
 
 Tolkien's world amazes me mostly for the class rigidity. Position in society 
 is largely determined by birth. For all Sam Gamgee's heroism, he's still the 
 hired help when he gets back home. Elves are the true aristocracy in 
 Tolkien's world, and they exist in a realm far above men and hobbits. I guess 
 you could see racist overtones in that, but I think the class overtones are 
 far more sinister.
 
 To me, the most important aspect of Tolkien's work is the way he used it to 
 work out his own experience with early industrialized warfare. He served in 
 WWI, and many of the scenes from _The Two Towers_ (like the trip through the 
 dead marshes) are taken from his battle experience.
 
 Years ago, I read that the Nazgul were based on the German Stuka divebombers.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89eRBGqtVBo
 
 The Stuka were one of the tools of warfare tested by the Germans in the 
 Spanish civil war and used to terrorize in the blitzkrieg.
 
 Sometimes it seems to me that British science fiction writers told the story 
 of the world wars over and over again in the 20th century. Even Harry Potter 
 seems like another retelling of WWII.
 
 Tolkien is perhaps the prime example of the way the world wars gripped the 
 British imagination. He wrote much of _The Lord of the Rings_ under the 
 influence of WWII.
 
 One of the overarching messages of _The Lord of the Rings_ is that evil tools 
 cannot be used for good ends. Many of the terrifying aspects of Sauron's 
 power are manufactured, a sort of evil technology that cannot possibly be 
 used for good. Even the orcs (which might be the basis of some of the claims 
 of racism) are an engineered species rather than a natural one.
 
 When Sam and Frodo return to the Shire, they discover that it has been 
 despoiled and polluted by the war. For the rest of their lives, they are 
 slowly poisoned by the evil they encountered on the war, much as WWI veterans 
 died slowly due to gas exposure and other aftereffects of trench warfare.
 
 So, for me, _The Lord of the Rings_ is mostly interesting because of what it 
 reveals about the interior experience of early industrial warfare.
 
 -- 
 Heather Madrone  (heat...@madrone.com)
 http://www.sunsplinter.blogspot.com
 
 Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its 
 best is power correcting everything that stands against love.
 - Martin Luther King
 
 



Re: [silk] Trolling as counter-terrorism

2012-08-02 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 3, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 8:52 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
 If you listen to recordings of telephone conversations of the 26/1 Mumbai
 terrorists after they hijacked an Indian fishing vessel and cut the captain's
 throat, the leader was asked by a controller in Karachi what he did to the
 captain, and he repiles Zabiha. Zabiha was done to Daniel Pearl as well.
 \
 
 Er, they were eaten to satisfy the need for food?

That's what we were just told. Where's the confusion?
 



Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-21 Thread Bonobashi
Internalised.

Hmmm.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 21, 2012, at 7:37 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Saturday 21 Jul 2012 7:07:45 pm Nikhil Mehra wrote:
 I think racism came to be recognized as unacceptable as a matter of law
 only after WW II.
 
 Probably.  Europe, the dominant continent before WW2 were in search of some 
 ancient history and Germany found that in the form of Aryan and stuck a 
 finger up the backside of the rest of Europe.
 
 The first Indian to emigrate to the US as per Wiki was a Bengali
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.K._Mozumdar
 In 1913 Mozumdar became the first Indian-born person to earn U.S.
 citizenship, having convinced the Spokane district judge that he was in
 fact Caucasian and thereby met the requirements of naturalization law then
 restricting citizenship to free white persons.
 
 Ten years later a Punjabi was refused immigration on the following grounds
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_Thind
 The eligibility of this applicant for citizenship is based on the sole fact
 that he is of high caste Hindu stock, born in Punjab [Amrit Sar], one of
 the extreme northwestern districts of India, and classified by many
 scientific authorities as of the Caucasian or Aryan race...In the Punjab
 and Rajputana [Rajasthan], while the invaders seem to have met with more
 success in the effort to preserve their racial purity, intermarriages did
 occur producing an intermingling of the two and destroying to a greater or
 less degree the purity of the “Aryan” blood. The rules of caste, while
 calculated to prevent this intermixture, seem not to have been entirely
 successful... the given group [Asian Indian] cannot be properly assigned
 to any of the enumerated grand racial divisions. The type may have been so
 changed by intermixture of blood as to justify an intermediate
 classification. Something very like this has actually taken place in
 India. Thus, in Hindustan [India] and Berar [town in India] there was such
 an intermixture of the “Aryan” invader with the dark-skinned Dravidian
 
 It is ironic that the Bengali got in and the Punjabi was turned down because 
 a 
 few decades later the Muslims among the two ethnic groups (Bengali and 
 Punjabi) were clubbed together in one country united by Islam as West 
 Pakistanis and East Pakistanis. Benazir Bhutto once said that she had been 
 taught in school that West Pakistans were tall, had white skin and ate wheat. 
 East Pakistanis were short, had a dark complexion and ate rice. 
 
 Of course the original Gunga Din of Kipling was from the Indian northwest - 
 which included Indian and Pakistani Punjab and the North West Frontier 
 Province, whence the Taliban come from. But after the Indian army revolt of 
 1857 the British army made it a point to recruit the relatvely apolitical 
 north-western Indian and were suspicious of the politicking Bengalee. The 
 former were praised as martial races who were immune to syphilis among 
 other 
 valuable traits. This mythical trait, I am told, was internalized by the 
 Pakistan army.
 
 LOL
 
 shiv
 



Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-20 Thread Bonobashi
I wonder what he meant by the raw kaffir.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 15, 2012, at 2:03 AM, Venky ve...@duh-uh.com wrote:

 On Saturday 14 July 2012 at 6:38 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote:
 Kipling is Gandhi's contemporary, funny how they came to rather
 different conclusions about the fate of the races.
 
 
 With quotes likes these, I don't know if I buy the theory of Gandhi being a 
 champion of racial equality:
 
 “A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little 
 better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children 
 are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is 
 being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.”
 
 “Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted 
 upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw 
 Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a 
 certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in 
 indolence and nakedness.”
 
 Venky (the Second).
 
 
 



Re: [silk] Just So Stories

2012-07-14 Thread Bonobashi
Not just that but some of his sea stories and whimsical forays were eminently 
'readable'; not a popular word in the age of deconstruction. Of everything 
including styles of speech and accents.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 14, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote:

 the codeword for forget the critique and enjoy it is those books were a
 product of their times
 
 John Sundman [14/07/12 02:05 -0400]:
 I wonder what you-all think of Kipling's Just So Stories?
 
 I myself find them delightful -- especially when read in facsimile of the 
 original printing, with Kipling's own illustrations. The Just So Stories are 
 some of my favorite children's stories ever. I love the voice, tone, 
 whimsey, humor, use of language, gentleness, kindness, subtlety, etc. In 
 fact, when my wife  I opened our children's book  toy store in 1988 we 
 named it The Elephant's Child.
 
 I know a little bit about Kipling's standing as the Voice of Empire and 
 Racist Hegemony.  But having never been to India nor studied much of its 
 history, I'm sure that I miss much of the nuance in both Kipling's writings 
 and the critiques of them.
 
 So I wonder: What do Silklisters (especially Indians or members of the 
 Indian diaspora) make of the Just So Stories?
 
 Do you find them innocent  lyrical  funny  potent as I do, or do you find 
 them obnoxious and all of the same cloth as his other white man's burden 
 imperialist writings?
 
 Curiously,
 
 jrs
 
 
 
 
 



Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Just So Stories

2012-07-14 Thread Bonobashi
gag

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 15, 2012, at 2:15 AM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com
 
 Is whimsey the right (er, Kipling British) spelling or it is whimsy? I
 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Peter_Wimsey
 



Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-13 Thread Bonobashi
It was. That was just Shiv in mid-flow demonstrating that he DOESN'T squirm. He 
tends to get carried away proving his balance and refusal to be carried away.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:34 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:00 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Friday 13 Jul 2012 7:12:33 pm Eugen Leitl wrote:
  http://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/whnoj/as_an_indian_never_reali
  zed_that_these_words_from/
 
 Big deal. Ever since Macaulay made the learning of English compulsory for the
 natives of India who were up until then studying useless Sanskrit and
 Arabic,
 
 Ummm. I thought the language of the Moghul court was Persian
 
 Thaths
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders


Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-13 Thread Bonobashi
I can't bear the burden.

This really belongs to Ram and functional equivlents.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:43 PM, Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com wrote:

 that sounds...recursive.  must be hard for him ;-)
 
 On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 It was. That was just Shiv in mid-flow demonstrating that he DOESN'T squirm. 
 He tends to get carried away proving his balance and refusal to be carried 
 away.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 


Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-13 Thread Bonobashi
No. Shiv is right. Mainstream (and, for Muslims, compulsory) education was in 
madrasahs, and started with Arabic. It was not exclusively Arabic, and study of 
Persian was taken up when the course of study defined demanded it.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:56 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 10:05 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Friday 13 Jul 2012 9:34:32 pm Thaths wrote:
  Ummm. I thought the language of the Moghul court was Persian
 You haven't been reading history have you? Naughty naughty.
 
 The court language and the language of the courtesans too perhaps was never
 the language of education. It was madrassas and Arabic.
 
 Sanskrit and Arabic might have been studied (by a minority who could afford 
 education) for liturgical purposes. But weren't the language of the bazaars 
 the likes of Urdu, Hindustani, Bhojpuri, Awadhi, etc.?
 
 Thaths
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders


Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-13 Thread Bonobashi
Persian was not only the court of language but the language of administration 
as well, until 1832, when English replaced it.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:23 PM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:

 No. Shiv is right. Mainstream (and, for Muslims, compulsory) education was in 
 madrasahs, and started with Arabic. It was not exclusively Arabic, and study 
 of Persian was taken up when the course of study defined demanded it.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:56 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 10:05 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Friday 13 Jul 2012 9:34:32 pm Thaths wrote:
  Ummm. I thought the language of the Moghul court was Persian
 You haven't been reading history have you? Naughty naughty.
 
 The court language and the language of the courtesans too perhaps was never
 the language of education. It was madrassas and Arabic.
 
 Sanskrit and Arabic might have been studied (by a minority who could afford 
 education) for liturgical purposes. But weren't the language of the bazaars 
 the likes of Urdu, Hindustani, Bhojpuri, Awadhi, etc.?
 
 Thaths
 -- 
 Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
 Carl:  Nuthin'.
 Homer: D'oh!
 Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
 Homer: Woo-hoo!
 Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders


Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-13 Thread Bonobashi
Of course it's not true! Indians spoke English to the 'manor' born, with no 
slips or stumbles! Anybody who denies that is a lackey of the Marxist hordes 
ruling Indian history - and economics, and anthropology, and sociology and that 
whole pack of nonsense outside the good ole professions - and probably thinks 
that we speak what we do because the 
Aryans came riding in, two by two, hurrah.

Having thrown You Know Who off the scent, we can re-convene under the rowan 
bushes, or, since there isn't much rowan growing in India, the rhododendrons, 
and plot how to send out the truth, which is ... Aaack! He's got me! 
We've been betrayed! Scatter, you fools!

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 14, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 6:00 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
 [...]
 
 The most well adjusted Indian is the one who is not conscious and apologetic
 about his English and his accent and does not squrim in the presence of other
 indians who speak out of date English. It is not out of date in India.
 
 The British didn't help exactly in this respect you know,
 
 Mundy, Talbot. King of the Khyber Rifles:
 
 He spoke English well enough. Few educated foreign gentlemen could
 have spoken it better, although there was the tendency to use slang
 that well-bred natives insist on picking up from British officers; and
 as he went on, here and there the native idiom crept through,
 translated.
 
 This is Mundy who was supposed to be understanding of the natives,
 Kipling no doubt would have fainted at so much praise being offered to
 a native.
 



Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-13 Thread Bonobashi
The exception to Shiv's colourfully phrased but authentic description was the 
Punjab' which had an astonishingly modern system that was uprooted by the 
British. The consequence is Banta and Santa jokes.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 14, 2012, at 9:04 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Friday 13 Jul 2012 10:56:58 pm Thaths wrote:
 Sanskrit and Arabic might have been studied (by a minority who could afford
 education) for liturgical purposes. But weren't the language of the bazaars
 the likes of Urdu, Hindustani, Bhojpuri, Awadhi, etc.?
 
 Oh absolutely. But there was a system of education in India that, in 
 retrospect was as elitist as it is now.
 
 All the texts containing knowledge for Hindus was in Sanskrit, which they 
 studied. All that was required to be studies by Muslims was in Arabic. For 
 centuries before Macaulay both Hindu and Muslim kings has subsidzed education 
 in both Arabic and Sanskrit (at least that is what Macaulay said). Initially 
 the Brits continued these subsidies in the areas they got involved in. 
 
 What Macaulay did was to stop Britidh subsidies for Sanskrit and Arabic 
 education and introduced English. So what we have now is that the vast mass 
 of 
 Indians speak Indian languages , but the few elite educated (who used to be 
 Sanskrit/Arabic scholars) are now English speakers. Democratization of 
 education does not seem to have existed in old times and still does not 
 exist. 
 You learn an elite language to become elite and take on the mannerisms and 
 attitudes that the elite language brings with it. 
 
 shiv
 
 



Re: [silk] outdated words in Indian English

2012-07-13 Thread Bonobashi
There you go, despising your fellow Indian, just because you've done your bit 
impressing furriners.

You've just proved You Know Who right. 

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 14, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 14 July 2012 03:09, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 Persian was not only the court of language but the language of
 
 Silver surfer moment?
 
 Ram
 



Re: [silk] How the Woosters captured Delhi

2012-06-07 Thread Bonobashi
But you referred to this effect your own lily-pink self, Shiv! Some 200 posts 
ago.

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 7, 2012, at 8:00 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tuesday 05 Jun 2012 12:58:41 pm thew...@gmail.com wrote:
 Standards have fallen, though.
 
 That actually depends on whose standards you consider as the right 
 standards. Indian school children of the shiv in Poona class (and tens of 
 thousands of others)  were taught that Ye olde Britishe Public schoole was 
 the standard to follow. Typically they liked Wodehouse. 
 
 But the bunch I was thrown with after I joined Medical college, all of whom 
 scored marks near the top of a competitive entrance exam, mostly did not like 
 Wodehose or English classics. Decades on they are none the worse for their 
 ignorance of what was considered essential in my own schooling. 
 
 But funnily enough, my own friends circle today  seems to include those very 
 Wodehouse fans of that era, and fewer of those who did not like Wodehouse, 
 suggesting to me that this sort of education also imbued a kind of Old 
 School 
 Network/Public School Caste like personality on many of us. 
 
 shiv
 



Re: [silk] How the Woosters captured Delhi

2012-06-03 Thread Bonobashi
Swapan-da?

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 3, 2012, at 12:08 PM, thew...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dragging this back to the original thread- how widely read is PGW today? Does 
 he still attract fresh batches of public school readers, or is his appeal 
 limited to those who started reading him in the 90s or before and have fond 
 memories of Mr. Wodehouse's idyllic world? 
 
 This article, remember, was written in 2002. I remember Swapan-da once 
 slicing apart Tharoor, saying that he was prouder of being President of the 
 Wodehouse Society than of being Deputy Secretary General of the United 
 Nations. 
 
 On a personal note- PGW was a personal favorite through much of school, but 
 the only book of his on my current reading list is Wodehouse at the Wicket. 
 That said, I still think I got all my Shakespeare quotes from PGW. 
 
 
 Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
 From: Deepa Mohan apeedna...@gmail.com
 Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 03:23:28 +0530
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Subject: Re: [silk] How the Woosters captured Delhi
 
 
 
 On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 1:03 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
 Shashi Tharoor on The Master.
 
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jul/20/classics.pgwodehouse\
 
 
 We will have to accept that there is a whole world of readers out there who 
 do not know their Plums from their peaches.
 
 I feel that Plum's world is like another writer in Tamizh that I know 
 of...his pen name is Marina, and his plays deal with the leisurely world of 
 the Brahmin community in Chennai, a community, like the members of the Drones 
 Club, that no longer exists. Has anyone read Marina's work?
 
 Deepa. 


Re: [silk] How the Woosters captured Delhi

2012-06-02 Thread Bonobashi
There was, actually, an Anglo-Indian (as in Brigadier Hugh Stevens, not as in 
Sir Henry Gidney) accent that preferred it to be 'wottah'. So, too, 'caw', as 
in 'moto-caw', of which you bought the best you could buy, to impress the 
'gels'. A terminal 'g' was never, ever pronounced. People with proper RP 
accents like Philip Crossley, Assistant Editor of The Statesman, visibly 
blenched when they encountered this variant (except for dropping the 'g'). But 
that was a clash of extremes. Steven Miles, a career diplomat, had a far easier 
accent, one closest to the older breed of Indian Army Indian officers, and 
quite easy to cope with.

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 2, 2012, at 10:11 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wednesday 30 May 2012 1:03:25 am Thaths wrote:
 So how do you pronounce it -
 is it Woad-house or Wood-house?
 
 It's ironic that Wodehouse's main character Bertie Wooster bears a name that 
 is a spoof on Worcester. 
 
 It believe that World war I - (a war  fought between nations who thought that 
 the plains of western Europe constituted the whole world) was the great 
 leveller that brought the British upper (uppah) classes down to the same 
 level 
 as the lower classes. 
 
 The uppah class of course had all these wierd liinguistic, sartorial and 
 culinary affectations including the intense need to keep their language pure 
 and different from the hoi polloi. Even today Prince Charles is likely to say 
 hice for house. About the house is abite the hice in the upper class 
 Bertie Worcester accent. 
 
 The female who cleans your house is a woman, not a lady. A lady is a lady, 
 not 
 a woman. The Brits threw off the uppah class affectations ages ago, but 
 Indians 
 have tended to hang on to them with fond, if faux, memories of days gone by.
 
 Some time in the late 1980s I was somewhere in England and needed to meet the 
 man in charge of something or other (accommodation IIRC) I was told that I 
 needed tomeet Mr. Woodwood? Woodwood? wtf, I asked. I was told  Not 
 Woodwood. 
 Woodwood. Eventually I asked for a spelling and got Woodward 
 
 And for the Kannada speakers I have this one. My sister in law from the US 
 was 
 baby-sitting her niece from England for a while in Bangalore. The little girl 
 said I want woota. So my SiL thought the little girl is aking for a meal 
 (oota) in Kannada. But the girl said No not oota. Woota
 
 She meant water which the Brits pronounce as woota. My SiL from America 
 thought water was wa'er in Americanese. It is, of course wah-tarr for 
 Indians. 
 
 shiv
 
 



Re: [silk] How the Woosters captured Delhi

2012-06-02 Thread Bonobashi
Oh, great! I can't download or listen to it!! You Microsoft sell-out, you!!! 
You...you anti-Semite!

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 3, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On 03-Jun-12 9:19 AM, John Sundman wrote:
 
 Your narration is quite good. Isn't it lovely, and curious, how we 
 descendants of former subjects of the British crown can speak with such 
 distinctive accents, yet still understand each other?
 
 Or, at least, I understood you. Remains to be determined whether others 
 understood me.
 
 I converted your file and uploaded to the silklist page on facebook [1].
 Interestingly, facebook was only prepared to accept it if I converted to
 WMA (I tried MP4, MP3 and WMA)
 
 Udhay
 
 [1] https://www.facebook.com/groups/silklist/
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 



Re: [silk] Help!--linguistic brain-tapping needed, please

2012-05-25 Thread Bonobashi
Shiv is always so helpful. 

Sent from my iPad

On May 25, 2012, at 8:12 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Friday 25 May 2012 4:50:19 pm Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
 Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
 
 Blocked nose? I know the feeling. Try a good shot of brandy.
 
 shiv
 



Re: [silk] India's dangerous capitalism

2012-05-17 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 18, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com wrote:

 Amen to that post that, Divya.
 Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
 From: Divya Sampath divyasamp...@yahoo.com
 Sender: silklist-bounces+nikhil.mehra773=gmail@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.netsilklist@lists.hserus.net
 ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Subject: Re: [silk] India's dangerous capitalism
 
 
 I actually started reading it then got lost. Does she always write like 
 this? 
 
 Yes, she does. Her writing defies parody because really, who could possibly 
 out-do her own stock of entitled, delusional, condescending, endlessly 
 recycled, logic-defying, inane rhetoric? The State is evil! Check. Sinister 
 Global capitalist forces (of Indian origin)! Check. Vast Right-Wing Media 
 conspiracy! Check. 
 
 A few things in the article are worth giggling over - she now describes 
 herself as part of the Indian middle class. The same middle class that in the 
 world of Arundhati Roy as recently as last year were 'incredibly hostile, 
 abusive, and dangerous' to her. Apparently, the pernicious, 
 reality-challenged middle class in India were a privileged lot who had 
 'seceded to outer space' and were disconnected to everything but 'their own 
 andolan, their own Jessica Lal, their own media, their own controversies'. In 
 other words, people who choose to rally around anything other than 
 Arundhati's chosen andolans, media and controversies are detached from 
 reality.
 The worst part? She is such a terrible, disingenuous pseudo-intellectual that 
 it makes me cringe when she espouses a cause that I care about. (It happens 
 frequently). I'd rather not have my issues advocated for so ineptly.
 
 cheers
 Divya
 

She's a double-barreled menace. She hijacks issues, and permanently skews them 
with her high-decibel manifestos, and she also manages to attract right wing 
troglodytes in massive numbers, forcing people to defend her right to free 
speech rather than presenting the merits of the original issues involved.
 


Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-06 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6 May 2012 10:53, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:
 Now all this thread needs is the entry of Ram with deadpan face and
 hobnailed boots. We can't be banned from our own list, can we? ;-)
 
 Oh, if you insist: some 15+ years ago, there was an infamous thread
 about onanism
 
 If I recall correctly, the thread, originally, was not about onanism.
 I suspect that was my, err, contribution.
 
 (And now someone who has the bloody archives will step in, and say,
 no, that isn't true.)
 
 Also, the original banner is now touchy only about Apple (good) vs
 Android (bad). Or so it seems. I'm sure Mahesh (Murthy) has an opinion
 on that.
 
 (cf. Udhay, Shuriken, the throwing around of)
 
 Ram
 
 -- 
 Ramakrishnan Sundaram | r.sunda...@gmail.com | +91 860 501 585

It was, sadly , your contribution. And you refused to stop, err, contributing. 
One of those unforgettable moments when one peers at life's lees and finds 
them, err, grim.


Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-06 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram r.sunda...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6 May 2012 11:03, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
 
 Do you remember Shiv's epic first post 'after coming out'?
 
 No. Do tell us about Shiv coming out.
 

On second thoughts, some things had best remain 'in'.
 



Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-06 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 5:14 PM, John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com wrote:

 
 On May 6, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Bonobashi wrote:
 
 It was, sadly , your contribution. And you refused to stop, err, 
 contributing. One of those unforgettable moments when one peers at life's 
 lees and finds them, err, grim.
 
 The more time goes by, the more honored and astounded I am to find myself on 
 this list.
 
 jrs


Dear Sir,

You are a most fortunate man. You have not had to endure those stark, early 
days when an unkempt, ragged band found itself outside the warm comfort of the 
original BBS, huddled together and laughing nervously at each other's quite 
appalling jokes.

Things have improved considerably. Ram has gone into exile to a 
bandwidth-starved location. It is safe to come out. Nothing can be done about 
Shiv's North British (or functional equivalent) disposition, manners and syntax 
since he insists on playing golf.

Having relieved myself of which, I shall seek the solace of my own company in 
as distant a brooding forest as I can find. The list may not be a place of 
peace much longer.

Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-06 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 6:52 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sunday 06 May 2012 5:14:23 pm John Sundman wrote:
 The more time goes by, the more honored and astounded I am to find myself
 on this list.
 
 Don't feel honored. You need to be alarmed. Insanity is only a hair's breadth 
 away with this bunch. Luckily I'm bald so the breadth of hair does not bother 
 me. 
 
 shiv

There's another hairsbreadth left? Scheiss!
 



Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-05 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 5, 2012, at 8:30 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 Forwarding this one also, from IG - but people, PLEASE trim your posts,
 else they will get trapped by the list filters. And I can't be depended
 on to forward them forever.
 
 Udhay
 
  Original Message 
 Subject:Re: [silk] Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'
 Date:Sat, 5 May 2012 00:27:28 +0530
 From:Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in
 To:silklist@lists.hserus.net silklist@lists.hserus.net
 
 
 
 Oh Lor'!
 
 Just finished getting this same jack-ass article slung at me to prove
 that our oppressed were better off being our oppressed than being
 anywhere else. And all because some NGO jockey has got right wing
 foundation fever in his old age!
 
 Have you no mercy?
 
 And how did you get into Ashok Chowgule, that neutral, fair and unbiased
 observer of this social activism phenomenon, and president of the Mumbai
 chapter of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad in his spare time?
 
 Sent from my iPad
 

Sorry about the trimming, Udhay. I really got worked up on that one.



Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-05 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 7:20 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Saturday 05 May 2012 8:30:22 am Udhay Shankar N wrote:
  Original Message 
 Subject:Re: [silk] Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'
 Date:   Sat, 5 May 2012 00:27:28 +0530
 From:   Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net silklist@lists.hserus.net
 
 
 
 Oh Lor'!
 
 Just finished getting this same jack-ass article slung at me to prove
 that our oppressed were better off being our oppressed than being
 anywhere else. And all because some NGO jockey has got right wing
 foundation fever in his old age!
 
 Have you no mercy?
 
 
 LOL 
 
 IG but doesn't your comment fit exactly into the steroetype that Yoginder 
 Sikand disses in his article. You instantly place a person who fails to meet 
 the exacting standards of being uncompromisingly sympathetic to 
 pre-determined 
 definitions of being  oppressed as someone who belongs to the right wing. 
 
 This is like saying that everyone on my right is right wing. 
 
 
 shiv

Aren't they?


Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-05 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 9:21 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sunday 06 May 2012 8:56:50 am Bonobashi wrote:
 
 This is like saying that everyone on my right is right wing.
 
 
 shiv
 
 Aren't they?
 
 Yes IG, but the observation tempts me to retype and post a footnote that I 
 had 
 earlier decided against posting. This is in the genre of mundane truisms 
 masquearing as fundamental philosophical truths handed down by God or some  
 similar authority. Such as a mullah. 
 
 I was recently looking for Islamic injunctions on onanism and found that the 
 rules, after much deliberation and multiple references to holy texts and 
 historic precedents, state that one must not do it unless one must. 
 
 shiv
 


Duly noted that you did not post that till you had to. Good, that should ensure 
no hair on your palms.
 





Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-05 Thread Bonobashi
What seems to be happening is a rather deeper, more far-reaching phenomenon 
that effectively reverses the trend to make allowances for the underprivileged.

As long as it was a talking point in cocktail parties and seminar lunch-breaks, 
as long as 99% of administrative and professional opportunities go to the 
privileged, effectively the Hindu upper castes with a satisficing sprinkling of 
Christians, Muslims and Sikhs who had gone to the right schools, talking with 
great sincerity about the serious and compelling need to do something for the 
underprivileged was safe enough. Those were the days.

Things happened. Mainly reservations. The steely grip that 'we' had on schools, 
colleges, engineering schools, medical training and professional opportunities 
or government jobs was pried loose. Sachar came along and raised a stink. 
Mayavati came along and spread the shit around. Brother-in-law Sashi's son 
failed to make it to medical school because some half-literate idiot with 
nowhere near his marks got a quota seat. All of a sudden, the vague discomfort  
began.

Nothing direct and damaging, you understand. Nothing against the Scheduled 
Castes, no, that's not the word, is it, Harijans, no, no,that's the older word, 
Dalit, that's the word, not a word against them. Though they are such tiresome 
people, dahling, they keep snarling all the time, when they aren't whining, you 
know? It's just that it's so difficult to get along with them, they're so 
insistent on talking about the same dreary things all the dreary time.

And hey, nothing against the Muslim either. Some of my best friends are Muslim, 
you know that? I know how to greet them on Eid, and what each Eid holiday is, 
and I say Adab on meeting them, Khuda Hafiz with a rueful smile and a quip 
about how the Tablighis don't say Khuda any moreit's just that they're so, 
I don't want to sound negative or anything, but set in their ways, somehow, not 
willing to compromise even a wee bit, rigid, is that the word I'm looking for? 
They're all converted Dalit anyway, why they give themselves such airs and 
graces, I can't imagine, they should be grateful that they get to lead such 
peaceful lives, look at the way they breed, their birth rate is way higher than 
Hindus, they'll be overtaking us soon.

Which leads to the Great Question. And that's when it starts unravelling.

Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:

 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On May 6, 2012, at 9:21 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Sunday 06 May 2012 8:56:50 am Bonobashi wrote:
 
 This is like saying that everyone on my right is right wing.
 
 
 shiv
 
 Aren't they?
 
 Yes IG, but the observation tempts me to retype and post a footnote that I 
 had 
 earlier decided against posting. This is in the genre of mundane truisms 
 masquearing as fundamental philosophical truths handed down by God or some  
 similar authority. Such as a mullah. 
 
 I was recently looking for Islamic injunctions on onanism and found that the 
 rules, after much deliberation and multiple references to holy texts and 
 historic precedents, state that one must not do it unless one must. 
 
 shiv
 
 
 
 Duly noted that you did not post that till you had to. Good, that should 
 ensure no hair on your palms.
 
 
 
 



Re: [silk] Fwd: Re: Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'

2012-05-05 Thread Bonobashi


Sent from my iPad

On May 6, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On 06/05/12 06-May-2012;10:30 AM, Bonobashi wrote:
 
 Duly noted that you did not post that till you had to. Good, that should 
 ensure no hair on your palms.
 
 Now all this thread needs is the entry of Ram with deadpan face and
 hobnailed boots. We can't be banned from our own list, can we? ;-)
 
 (for the rest of the list: inside joke, nothing to see here, move along.
 Oh, if you insist: some 15+ years ago, there was an infamous thread
 about onanism on a BBS that several of the denizens of this list used to
 frequent, that led to the PUNS forum being shut down and lots of
 shouting done. Heh.)
 
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Not unless you want to start something called Rayon next. Do you remember 
Shiv's epic first post 'after coming out'?


Re: [silk] Fwd: Justice

2012-05-02 Thread Bonobashi
What is it you are asking?

Richard was killed by two imbeciles for an unbearably stupid reason; there is a 
growing movement demanding justice and fair play, though the authorities have 
been tap-dancing around it.

I don't know if this is a genuine petition.

Sent from my iPad

On May 2, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Mahesh Murthy mahesh.mur...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm not based in Bangalore, and haven't heard of this.
 
 Have any of you?
 
 Is this legit?
 
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Dr. L Rajesh m...@change.org
 Date: Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:35 PM
 Subject: Justice
 To: mahesh.mur...@gmail.com
 
 
  
 Help Our Son Get Justice
  
 Email the Commissioner
 Mahesh -
 
 Our son didn’t deserve to die. Richard was just 19 years old and studying at 
 Archarya NRV School of Architecture in Bangalore (India). On the night of 
 April 17th, his head was smashed by two students from his hostel.
 
 What makes his death so much harder is knowing that we were only informed by 
 the college authority about our son's death the next day at 3.30 pm and the 
 accused Vishal Banerjee (1st year B. Arch student) and Syed Afzal Ali (1st 
 year MBA student), who brutally killed him are still not arrested.
 
 But we hope for justice. We have started a petition asking the Police 
 Commissioner of Bangalore, B. Jyoti Mirji to arrest the accused and file 
 charges against them.
 
 Witnesses have revealed that Syed Afzal Ali repeatedly hit Richard’s head and 
 face. The photographic images and preliminary post-mortem report also support 
 this. However, the college authorities are trying to cover up by linking our 
 son's death to a minor accident he had a few days before and drug abuse which 
 is clearly an attempt to defame our loving son.
 
 The support that everyone has shown by organizing protests gives us strength 
 to stand our ground.
 
 CNN-IBN and other news agencies have already reported on the issue, but we 
 need to put more pressure on the Police Commissioner to arrest the accused 
 and put them on trial.
 
 Even though the accused have been booked for murder, they havent been 
 arrested yet. Two weeks have passed, and we are still demanding a fair and 
 transparent investigation.
 
 Please help us in getting justice for our son, Richard - we will be very 
 grateful for your support.
 
 Thank you,
 Dr. L Rajesh (Loitam Richard's father)
 Dr. RK Vidyabali Devi (Loitam Richard's mother)
 
 This email was sent by Change.org to mahesh.mur...@gmail.com   |   Start a 
 petition 
 Unsubscribe. Edit your email notification settings.
 
 
 
 


Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me

2012-04-24 Thread Bonobashi

Or you could use the equivalent of Noel Coward's St Dunstan's explanation.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 24, 2012, at 1:17 PM, Mahesh Murthy mahesh.mur...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 When I was a kid, gay meant carelessly happy. I cannot tell my 7 year old 
 what it means now. Rather, I don't know how to.
 
 See, sometimes one uncle loves another uncle. Sometimes, aunties love other 
 aunties too. This is perfectly normal, kiddo.
 
 


Re: [silk] The Bhansali Stork

2012-04-19 Thread Bonobashi
Congratulations.

Nice way to manage the new arrival.

My Mum was playing poker and was on a winning streak and was reportedly 
extremely reluctant to retire gracefully. As the District Surgeon, a family 
friend, was present, he pulled rank and restored discipline.

Sadly, nobody, then or later, noticed my own good looks, or if they did, they 
didn't mention it as they ought to have. Life isn't, umm, a bed of roses.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 18, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Anil Kumar anilkumar.naga...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 
 
 
 On Apr 18, 2012, at 11:16, Vinit Bhansali vi...@bhansalimail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Deepa Mohan apeedna...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am very happy to tell everyone that Vinit Bhansali and Surabhi Tomar found 
 a baby boy in a bed of rose petals on Sunday, April 15. The little one, in 
 Vinit's words, is so good-looking that we are wondering which couple have 
 left their baby with us.
 
 Emailing them might be better than calling them, but it's up to each person.
 
 Cheers, Deepa.
 
 Sharing some interesting news based on the SilkMeet from the 13th.
 For people who were there and wondering why Surabhi disappeared halfway 
 through the evening ... She had just gone into labour!
 
 Though it lasted longer and our baby Vir was only born on Sunday, I can 
 safely say that he did start kicking to get out during the SilkMeet (to meet 
 my wonderful SilkList friends)
 
 So thanks SilkList for having this meet at our place and literally 
 kickstarting our baby's birth! 
 
 
 Congratulations Vinit and Surabhi!


Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query

2012-04-14 Thread Bonobashi
Srabonti Bagchi might have got closer with mukhpora, kopalpora, hatobhaga than 
her own effort.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 14, 2012, at 6:49 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
 sur...@hserus.net wrote:
 Well well .. I sort of suspected someone would have written a paper on this.
 
 http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/rev/8/2/113/
 
 Citation
 Database: PsycARTICLES
 [ Journal Article ]
 The psychology of profanity.
 
 Profanity when it is not cathartic is a weapon isn't it? The idea is
 to shock and wound the opponent. The subject of the profanity
 therefore is anything that the opponent values which can be degraded.
 What profanity gets used though depends on context, even if the
 aggravation levels are the same across contexts.
 
 When it is two soldiers exchanging abuses across trenches, it is
 usually about nationality. When it is neighbors cursing each other,
 kids, spouses and pets seem to be invoked. Kids in a playground prefer
 unflattering comparisons to body parts, mothers and scatology. In each
 context the perceived identities of the parties is different, and this
 chooses the language.
 
 Now, men historically seem to have fought more often than women, so
 the body of non-physical violence is mostly equipped with curses that
 are effective against men. The profusion of unflattering references to
 women in curses is a natural outcome of this. Most men after all place
 their identity in their women, and it's an excellent object of attack.
 
 Cheeni
 



Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query

2012-04-14 Thread Bonobashi
Variations of the Ill-fated:

Mukhpora - burnt face, blackened face, disgraced in public

Kopalpora - burnt forehead, forsaken by good fortune

Hatobhaga - whose fate is killed; no prospects, doomed 

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 14, 2012, at 7:24 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Saturday 14 Apr 2012 7:02:54 pm Bonobashi wrote:
 Srabonti Bagchi might have got closer with mukhpora, kopalpora, hatobhaga
 than her own effort.
 
 IG who are these people mukhpora, kopalpora and hatobhaga?
 
 shiv
 



Re: [silk] How To Be More Interesting

2012-01-20 Thread Bonobashi
For you, the war is over!
Ve haff ways to make you talk!

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote:

 thew...@gmail.com [20/01/12 14:46 +]:
 Achtung, Englander?
 
 ach ja.
 



Re: [silk] Why this Kolaveri di?

2011-11-28 Thread Bonobashi
It is. Pack your plate armor.


Sent from my iPad

On Nov 28, 2011, at 7:01 PM, Chew Lin Kay chewlin@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 
 as for quizzing for fun and profit try your luck here (once you fly down to
 one of these cities)
 
 bangalore - http://kqaquizzes.org/
 hyderabad - http://www.kcircle.com
 chennai - http://quizfoundation.com/
 
 there are more, in one indian city or the other
 
 Reason #2501 I need to visit India. And then of course I remember that 
 quizzing is a blood sport in that country...  
 


Re: [silk] Why this Kolaveri di?

2011-11-28 Thread Bonobashi
You missed Noddy.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 28, 2011, at 8:06 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote:

 Srini RamaKrishnan [28/11/11 14:46 +0100]:
 idea of holistic development, and most quiz heads I met were these
 answer spewing, buzzer tapping monsters on stage who seemed to *ahem*
 lack other skills.
 
 ha ha yes. among quizzers on silk, for instance, samanth is only a
 published author and successful journalist. mahesh murthy is a vc among
 other things, then there's udupa, me, sumanth srivathsan, ashwin .. no
 shortage of people holding down regular jobs and hanging on silk.
 
 I also grew up without the oversight of the traditional Indian school
 system which seems to hop up normal kids into competitive tiger kids.
 
 Not all that many of us were tiger kids. Lots of chennai quizzers seem to
 have been the misfits of PS Senior / PSBB (so exactly the opposite of the
 ideal PS kid who aces his IIT, IIM, etc)
 



Re: [silk] Why this Kolaveri di?

2011-11-28 Thread Bonobashi
No. 

Try not to break down and get emotional, but there is at least one other.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 28, 2011, at 11:03 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Monday 28 Nov 2011 7:01:30 pm Chew Lin Kay wrote:
 as for quizzing for fun and profit try your luck here (once you fly down
 to one of these cities)
 
 bangalore - http://kqaquizzes.org/
 hyderabad - http://www.kcircle.com
 chennai - http://quizfoundation.com/
 
 there are more, in one indian city or the other
 
 Reason #2501 I need to visit India. And then of course I remember that
 quizzing is a blood sport in that country...
 
 Am I the only one on this list who has gradually learned to be bored to death 
 by quizzing?
 
 shiv
 



Re: [silk] Query on wines.... and snobbery

2011-11-14 Thread Bonobashi
Apart from that, surely far more entertaining as well?

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 15, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I've always thought of pot as fairly harmless (though I may be wrong
 -- facts welcome), but I'm in two minds about whether it should be
 legalized. On the one hand, I don't see why alcohol and tobacco are
 any different from pot -- they can be addictive and they have long
 term consequences to ones health if consumed in excess.
 
 No comment on the rest of the debate, but this page on the relative
 addictiveness of various substances may be of interest. Marijuana is,
 in fact, significantly less addictive than tobacco or alcohol.
 
 http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/addictiv.htm
 
 Udhay
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
 



Re: [silk] Assuming goodwill

2011-08-06 Thread Bonobashi
Couldn't agree more vehemently.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 6, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote:

 In other words, screw the right wing trolling, the pseud-intellectual
 trolling etc etc etc?
 
 Fully agree.
 
 Shiv, Anand, if you guys have any sort of remotely useful point to make
 in periodically winding people up with chaddiwala and chomsky arguments
 please do enlighten us.  Else, start making the effort to talk about
 some damned thing other than your favorite hobby horses, kthxbai.
 
 On Saturday 06 August 2011 10:21 AM, Biju Chacko wrote:
 Y'know:
 
 After this latest (of a series) episode it's becoming increasingly
 difficult to assume the goodwill of posters who I don't know for sure
 are real people.
 
 As it is, the tone and level of discourse on silk has changed over the
 years. A few years ago, it felt like the conversation of people who
 knew and respected each other, now it often feels like the impersonal,
 points scoring discussions of dozens of other mailing lists and news
 groups scattered around the 'net.
 
 If this place is also going to become the focus of people's silly
 intellectual games, I'm afraid I'm not going to work up the enthusiasm
 to spend my copious free time on it.
 
 If we want to continue to have intelligent conversations here it may
 be time for us add a other rule: Do unto others as you would have
 done to you.
 
 -- b
 
 



Re: [silk] Subramanian Swamy

2011-08-05 Thread Bonobashi
That is ridiculous. Switzerland is Catholic in significant parts, but was also 
the home of Zwingli and one of the original bases of Calvinism. Neither the 
Roman Catholic Church nor Protestant denominations dominate the country; while 
it is Christian, it is not ruled by any specific type of Christian.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 5, 2011, at 11:33 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Heather Madrone heat...@madrone.com wrote:
 On 8/4/11 7:18 PM August 4, 2011, ss wrote:
 
 What is a secular democracy? How would a non secular democracy work?
 Does anyone have any examples of a non secular democracy?
 
 Israel.
 
 Switzerland is Catholic on paper, but of course in reality it is quite
 secular, notwithstanding the brouhaha over minarets a couple of years
 back.
 
 Cheeni
 




Re: [silk] I'm Back, I Hope

2009-05-27 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Wed, 27/5/09, Bruce Metcalf bruce.metc...@figzu.com wrote:

 From: Bruce Metcalf bruce.metc...@figzu.com
 Subject: [silk] I'm Back, I Hope
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Wednesday, 27 May, 2009, 10:36 AM
 All,
 
 I'm back. Never really left, just got so damn busy that
 something had to
 give. At first it was Silk. I've decided that was the wrong
 thing to cut
 and have made an adjustment. Hi again.
 
 Two years ago, my wife and I were named executive directors
 of a
 non-profit historical group (The Augustan Society
 http://www.augustansociety.org), in addition to my
 two other jobs
 which I still have. What was supposed to be a part-time
 role with two
 small trucks of material turned out to be a more than
 full-time job for
 both of us, and four large truckloads for the library,
 museum, and
 business records. Stashed the first two groups in storage
 and we're now
 living with the latter all over our home. Great fun, but a
 whale of a
 lot of work for an embarrassingly small stipend.
 
 I gave up on my Silk backlog and read the past month's
 worth. I'll send
 along a couple of relevant posts directly. We'll all see
 just how long
 my new commitment to the community lasts. Feels good to be
 back though.
 
 Bruce


Nice to have you back, Bruce.


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Re: [silk] On the rights of (harmless) bigots

2009-05-23 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Sat, 23/5/09, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote:

 From: Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] On the rights of (harmless) bigots
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Saturday, 23 May, 2009, 6:18 PM
 Can both of you avoid both
 
 a) top-posting (no, mine is not a top-post, your messages,
 hopelessly
 mixed up are below as a reminder) and
 
 b) quoting several dozen lines of irrelevant material?
 
 Udhay
 
 Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote, [on 5/23/2009 5:19 PM]:
 
  Harmless indeed, also gormless. 
  
  I don't know if you know me that well but if you're so
 sure, I'll agree. I'm anything but gormless as well. :). 
  
  Nobody will hurt you - promise - if you render that
 'I'm sure it's not I...' rather than the way you did serve
 it up.
  
  Ummm...ok. So now you're going to hurt me or what?
  
  Kiran
 
 -- 
 ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com))
 ((www.digeratus.com))


Sorry, wrong address. Hopelessly mixed up is the way I received it, and 
hopelessly mixed up is the way I answered it. 

Try the next street.


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Re: [silk] More on India in Illiad cartoons

2009-05-23 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Sat, 23/5/09, Lawnun lawnun+mailingl...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Lawnun lawnun+mailingl...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] More on India in Illiad cartoons
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Saturday, 23 May, 2009, 10:41 PM
 I'll preface this with I'm not
 Indian but...
 
 I must admit, the whole comic screams gross caraciture, and
 not terribly
 funny to boot.  That being said, userfriendly ceased
 being entertaining (at
 least to me) about 3 years ago.
 
 By design though, I understand Illiad's need to yank in the
 generalizations
 for an attempt at comedic effect -- he works in a medium
 that falls back on
 such conventions regularly. In some respects, particularly
 in the case of
 the three-panel daily comic, I think you need to employ
 caricature and
 generalization to hit the succinct punchline at the end of
 the third panel.
 That India (and to a lesser extent, Indians, are the brunt
 of this
 particular thread) seem only to serve the current story
 arc, and I'm not
 sure it'd be fair to extrapolate ignorance of India(ns) to
 the creator (and
 even less so, to the comics' readership).
 
 Given that, I'm curious, in an 'across-the-pond' sort of
 way -- do you ask
 the same questions (or generate the same 'datasets' that
 Bonobashi did) --
 regarding Indian comics that exaggerate or generalize about
 the U.S. or
 Canada (or anywhere considered away for that matter)?
 
 Carey

FWIW, I only read Doonesbury; used to read Peanuts but haven't got used to 
Lucy's primaeval violence and dropped out after a while. 

I haven't tried to form a mapping of the Doonesbury world because Trudeau has 
explicitly done it already. 

I don't think this strip is more or less ignorant than expected, about India 
and Indians. That is because Indians themselves are not well informed about 
India. I've just finished explaining to a college contemporary who is a Kannada 
speaking Bunt, and whom I inadvertently insulted by asking if she spoke Tulu, 
that no, I didn't think before moving to Bangalore in 86 that all Southies were 
Madrasis.

To find a (well-informed about India) cartoonist in the west is hugely 
unlikely. I think. This is the cue for some busybody to refer me to the work of 
Nalini Thimayya who cartoons for the Mid-West Patriot and whose cartoons are 
about South Asia. Yeah, right.


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Re: [silk] Hello

2009-05-21 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Thu, 21/5/09, Dr. John Marshall Johnson johnso...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Dr. John Marshall Johnson johnso...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Hello
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 11:45 AM
 On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:48 PM, ss
 cybers...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I have donned saffron clothes, joined the Hindutva
 brigade and I throw stones
  at people called Johnson :D
 
 Oh ! I am surrounded by the Saffron brigade. Need to run !!
 But where ?
 Like Churchilll said - If England is conquered, we will go
 to Canada and fight.
 But ( I would love to visit Canada), Bangalore is my place
 where I was
 born, bred and buttered ...
 and I have got so many good friends ...
 
  No seriously - I am fine.
 
 I know that. You may have your views, but then most of us
 know you well.
 So, golfing Mmm!!, looks like you have been succesful in
 life. Great !
 
 johnson


C'mon Doc, you can make out when the man's kidding, can't you?

Trouble is, Shiv has been scaring kids with these saffron clothes and large 
tilak, and garland of skulls (plastic, stamped Made in China) for so long, he 
feels if he doesn't keep doing it, he'll lose his mojo.

Inside, he's just the same old Shiv, kicking the s**t out of anyone who lets a 
syllogism go haywire. If the Hindutva Brigade turned up on his doorstep without 
an invitation, I have a sneaky suspicion we'd see some world land speed records 
broken.

Shiv is a secularist fallen among, erm, very strange company, and doesn't know 
how to ask them politely to shift their collective Taj Mahal and let him take 
his next shot - a difficult one with trees on the left and a horrible bunker to 
the right.


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Re: [silk] Hello

2009-05-21 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Thu, 21/5/09, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Hello
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 4:19 PM
 On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:14 PM,
 Ramakrishnan Sundaram
 r.sunda...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  2009/5/20 Dr. John Marshall Johnson johnso...@gmail.com:
 
  Well, can see Shiv, Mahesh, IG, Chetan,
  Venkat, Ram  out here.  Hi !! guys.
 
  Hi, JMJ.
 
 No, no, Ram...JMJ in general parlance stands for Joseph
 Mary Jesus! I
 know of schools and businesses which are called JMJ (much
 like the
 ubiquitous SLV or Sri Lakshmi Venkateshwara) and I found
 this out.
 
 Deepa.


I no understand.

Now Doc is to call himself SLV? Whyfor? Confuje, phull.


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Re: [silk] Hello

2009-05-20 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Wed, 20/5/09, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Hello
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 10:05 PM
 On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:43 PM,
 Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in
 wrote:
 
 
  Hi, Doc.
 
  How it going?
 
 Oh, it's now passe to say, what's up, Doc? It Bugs you?


No, not at all. 

I have this deep humanitarian urge to leave the cliches to those of mature 
years who NEED to say them off.

It's wonderful seeing the relieved looks on their faces afterwards. a greatly 
rewarding thing.


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Re: [silk] Why have Indian exit polls been so off lately?

2009-05-20 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Thu, 21/5/09, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: ss cybers...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Why have Indian exit polls been so off lately?
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 9:14 AM
 OK IG here is my answer ( I presume
 this is the one that you meant)
 
 On Wednesday 20 May 2009 9:38:03 am Bonobashi wrote:
  But based on what I have produced as evidence on my
 stand on the subject,
  you have a perfect right to arraign me on that count.
 The question is, and
  I leave it to you, having 'framed charges', so to
 speak, would you then
  allow me the right to plead? If you do, then I intend
 to indicate very
  clearly what my examples were (hint: they were
 examples), and my stand on
  the cut-off line.
 
 
 Franky I am inclined to let the matter drop for purely
 selfish reasons. 
 Anything anyone says will tempt me to make long winded
 responses and maybe 
 there are other things people want to do and and other
 things that I ought to 
 be doing - like getting down to reading 4 books that I
 bought as part 
 of redeeming Citibank reward points (and 3 others bought
 before that)
 
 I was just having a ball experimenting with the concept of
 If you (not you 
 personally) think I am North pole I will show how you can
 never be neutral, 
 but represent South pole
 
 In fact - I am tempted to get verbose again - i believe
 that this concept is 
 exactly the one that has led to the very visible failure of
 Hindutva as a 
 driving force in the last election. A very likely outcome
 if you start 
 believing that you are always North pole and the other is
 always South pole., 
 so to speak. To me the real mystery state is Karnataka.
 
 shiv

I am anguished at Karnataka. How could it do what it did? 

Well, so be it. The humiliation of it all; labelled pseudo-secularist and not a 
tap in sight, not a drop of water in sight.

I suppose I shall have to console Suresh by sending him your (battle) responses 
and my calm, considered exercises in polished, immaculate logic which are of 
such transcendent superiority that even you throw in the towel with one final, 
brave and obviously defeated effort before going off to practice short 
approaches to the green from the bunkers.

[SRS: QUICK. BOOK THOSE TICKETS TO THAT ISLET OFF MACAO BEFORE HE CHANGES HIS 
MIND AND HEADS BACK THIS WAY. REMEMBER, BOOK THE TICKETS IN STRANGE NAMES. CALL 
ME AGHA HILALY OR SOMETHING]



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Re: [silk] Why have Indian exit polls been so off lately?

2009-05-19 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Tue, 19/5/09, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: ss cybers...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Why have Indian exit polls been so off lately?
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 9:55 AM
 On Monday 18 May 2009 10:14:56 pm
 Bonobashi wrote:
   there is nothing hypocritical in my condemnation
 of the Gujarat massacres,
  and that you can use this only against a specific
 party and specific
  individuals from that party and from elsewhere who
 have actually
  demonstrated the hypocrisy that you have rightly
 pilloried.
 
  The point? Not everybody falls within your
 classification, and it does not
  seem logical to use arguments which depend on these
 categories as universal
  categories.
 
  Now it would be interesting for you to state those
 other issues which are
  being suppressed under the Modi smoke-screen. Please
 go ahead and list
  them, and see how secularism or its absence affects
 those issues. Or our
  responses to those issues.
 
 IG I will try and address the following issues in my reply
 (and will hopefully 
 answer your questions as well). 
 
 1) I will try and illustrate why the use of what I term as
 a torn shirt 
 versus open fly argument leads inexorably into a slippery
 slope where 
 anything can be connected up with anything else leading to
 irreconcilable 
 argument without the ability to see some important 
 issues.
 
 2) I will also try and show why the views you have
 expressed, while being 
 valid, still count as pseudosecular in their ability to
 obfuscate and
 suppress certain opinions. 
 
 3) How the suppression of certain inconvenient viewpoints
 has a negative  
 effect on Indian society today. 
 
 if you felt personally targeted by my comments, I must
 admit that my 
 comments (while not targeted at you personallly) were meant
 to hurt anyone 
 who counters what is seen as a Hindutva argument with a
 reminder that Modi 
 represents genocide. 



 
 i don't think any one of us on this list needs a reminder
 that Modi stands 
 accused of representing genocide. I don't think anyone on
 this list is a 
 supporter or abettor of murder. 
 
 Let me merely point out how you have fallen into the
 standard Hindutva trap by 
 raising the Modi is a killer card as soon as your
 Hindutva detection 
 meter sounds a warning. But you will have to listen to a
 fundamntalist Hindu
 viewpoint that I will state here because this is exactly
 what is said (and 
 let me point out that is is another egregious example of
 torn shirt versus 
 open fly - where one fact does not make another irrelevant
 or false)
 
 Al Beruni has documented the murder of Hindus in the past.
 There are records 
 of other massacres of Hindus including that of 500 brahmins
 in Melkote. 
 Despite this, I will explain why would it be wrong for a
 Hindutvadi to call 
 all Muslims murderers on the basis of documented history.
 
 No matter who committed murder in the past there are two
 incontrovertible 
 facts:
 
 1) All Muslims are not murderers and do not support or abet
 murder
 2) For all the murder that was commited by some people, a
 lot of innocent 
 people are being smeared merely for representing a
 different viewpoint
 
 Now apply that to Hindutva and BJP
 
 1) All Hindutvadis and BJP supporters are not murderers and
 do not support or 
 abet murder
 2) For all the murders commited by Modi and his goons, a
 lot of innocent 
 people are being smeared merely for representing a
 different viewpoint.
 
 The pseudosecular argument is as follows:
 
 You represent Hindutva. Modi represents Hindutva. Modi is
 a murderer, and 
 therefore your opinions coincide with that of a murderer.
 No decent human 
 would agree wth you. You need to shut up
 
 The counter argument made by Hindutvadis is similar:
 
 Islam is a murderous religion. Muslim opinions represent a
 murderous 
 religion. And your support to them represents support of
 murder and Hindu 
 genocide. You do not represent real secularism when you
 fail to criticize 
 genocide by Muslims in the past, while you criticize murder
 by Hindus more 
 recently. You are pseudosecular. You need to shut up
 yourself
 
 This is the slippery slope that you are getting into when
 you use Modis 
 guilt to suppress an opinion expressed by somenone else -
 in this case Bharat 
 Shetty. 
 
 How does all this impact Indian society? How is
 pseudosecularism as damaging 
 to society as a misrepresentation of all Muslims as
 fundamentalists?
 
 You and me and everyone else on this list, as decent,
 secular people claim 
 to fully understand the angst of religious minorities in
 India such as 
 Muslims and Christians. But what does not get expressed so
 often is that 
 the majority community of Hindus have their own reasons
 for dissatisfaction 
 and angst.
 
 In a secular and democratic country such as India, if we
 must go to great 
 lengths to reduce the angst and suffering of the religious
 minorities' it 
 also means that we have to be willing

Re: [silk] Why have Indian exit polls been so off lately?

2009-05-19 Thread Bonobashi



--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Bharat Shetty bharat.she...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Why have Indian exit polls been so off lately?
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 3:27 PM
 IG,
 
 -- I am arguing against Bharat making the mistake of those
 who admired
 Hitler, and before him, Mussolini, the original model, for
 making the
 trains run on time.
 
 Strongly agree with most of your points. But I do not like
 this,
 anyways. I did not champion Modi nor do I admire Modi. If
 you felt so,
 it wasn't to be, honestly.
 
 -- Bharat | http://twitter.com/shettyb



Don't be stupid, it wasn't meant personally. I was attacking your views, not 
you personally.

I am fond, very fond of Shiv. One of the few people without cant and hypocrisy. 

That doesn't stop me from looking at the views he's expressed, and saying out 
loud what I feel. Sometimes we agree. Other times, I keep quiet. Unless he says 
something outrageous, like he did.

Likewise, if you think my views suck, say so. I don't feel personal about it.

Except if it's Chetan. Now Chetan comes under the classification of game. For 
historical reasons. He can be guaranteed to provide entertainment. Just as soon 
as I finish making you wish you hadn't been born, I have some stuff in the 
kettle for him.




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