Re: CS>Acid/alkaline silver generator?
On Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:18:07 -0800, Ed Kasper wrote: >Quite a few years ago I recall a "miracle water" machine made by some >engineer that used a "vortex" as part of his machine. It just hooked up >under the sink. All stainless steel and a bit pricy for me so I never >pursued that. The information sent to be (this was before the internet) was >several pages of his creditenials and explanation of how it worked. I seem >to recall that the super fast moving water was critical and maybe it moved >around a magnet or something. Showed pictures before/after of plants, blood >cells. A lot of details, sure wish I could find that. Sounds to me like the >ORP you talked about. This is something that Austrian guy discovered back in the '20's (having a senior moment right now :) I read about water conditioning by using a vortex in "Secrets of the Soil" by Bird. -- Dean -- from (almost) Des Moines -- KB0ZDF -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>RE: a reason to buy 400ppm CS
Dear Ken, Of course, you are right that in lots of places making CS is do-able, but I'll give you an example of just how tough it is here in Bangladesh. I mentioned that several of us are putting together generators based on Terry Chamberlain's design (BTW Terry, I hope you're better!!) It's taken the better part of two months, off and on, to get the various components together, hiring people to source the various materials. Finding things has been all the more difficult because this is best accomplished in the Bengali language. We located a jewelers supplier that sells .999 silver, processed in Switzerland, and finally found someone in the market who could roll this into the size strips we need. And after a search in several of the markets we were able to come up with locally blown, glass jars, each 4.5 liters. Fortuitously there is a locally made plastic lid that fits the jar beautifully. Now we finally located someone who can take our 220volts AC and convert this to 110DC, maximum 15 to 20mA. But the water is what has taken us the longest to source. (A big problem with acid rain here makes solar distillation out of the question. You'd be surprised how much air polution there is in less developed countries.) Every brand of distilled water we have tested has been too high TDS to do the job. Even some of the de-ionized water is no good. For a month or so we thought we'd have to make our own de-ionized water, but then we found somebody who sells this to a couple of industries. What luck! But I consider Bangladesh to be highly developed when compared with most of Africa. A really good primer on why it is that nothing works in Africa, and much of the third world, is the novel, 'Things Fall Apart,' by the Nigerian author Chinua Achebe. Take for example the millions of tube wells that have been installed by UNICEF and other UN agencies. The vast majority of these are unused and rusting, for the fact is that when the very first part on the pump breaks, there are no parts to replace this. This phenomenon has lead to the new watchword of developers 'sustainability.' Perhaps 99.9% of all development ideas for Africa have been rejected as unsustainable and wishful thinking. Even if the resources were available most of the good ideas would require staff who are dedicated, intelligent and posessed of a lot of initiative. Such people can be a rarity. To make CS in Africa is theoretically possible, but only if there is concerted effort. Then again, a lot of education and awareness building would be key. You would also have to contend with health professionals who would be ready to quote the FDA and WHO viewpoint on colloidal silver. If the truth can't come to light in North America, what about the dark continent? Anyhow, I'm thrilled about our new Bangladeshi generators, because I don't feel right about setting somebody up to sell expensive CS, then exploit people. We must teach people to make CS and to make CS generators. There's a saying in poor countries that if you teach someone to fish you feed them for life. Bye for now. Reid P.S. You asked the price of Microdyn and I do think it's about 10 cents a gallon, once diluted. But this is not generally available outside Mexico and North America. Ode Coyote wrote: I'll bet that every village has at least one motor vehicle with a battery. Even a marginal junk battery that won't start a car or motor bike will do. Solar distillers, rain/dew collectors and the like are dirt cheap to build out of junk, if not absolutely free. The only expense would be the silver at $6 or so an oz. One oz .999 fine Bullion coins cost between $8 and $12 to literally make barrels of CS. If they have the infrastucture to get to the store or have things brought in and the money to buy Microdyne, they can make their own CS a lot cheaper...probably for less than 10 cents a gallon. How much does Mycrodyne cost? Ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re: a reson to buy 400ppm CS
Dear Ole Bob, I have no doubt that the particles are large. What I am saying is that diluting a CS 20:1 with water should be an indication that that CS is indeed concentrated. Perhaps I could concentrate even further and ascertain the ratio where the T.E. goes away. Reid Ole Bob said: Hi Reid, Some time ago the technical source of light adsorption by particle size was cited on this list and as Marshall of Roger pointed out the the T.E. is affected to the first power by the concentartion and the brightness to the thrid power of the particle size. Alos the color adsorption that happens when white light is passed through it is a function of particle size. So a bright T.E. and a green color screams "large particles." The people on this list have been schooled that color means large particles. "Ole Bob" -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Acid/alkaline silver generator?
Duncan, I had forgotten something previously gleaned at www.h-minus-ion.org. The desired species of hydrogen is H-, presumably occurring as a hydrated "cage" structure. This requires a double-reduction process at the cathode: H3O+ + e --> H2O + H H + e --> H- Maybe stirring is then not such a good idea? Anyone understand the electochemistry involved here? It seems a little ironic that one of the touted benefits of "reduced water" as the electrolytically alkalized water it is also known, is it's ability to counteract the deleterious effects of oxidizing free radicals, chief among them being ozone and hydrogen peroxide! From that it's safe to assume one shouldn't be swigging reduced water while taking an ozone sauna! regards, Kevin Nolan - Original Message - From: Kevin Nolan To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:48 PM Subject: Re: CS>Acid/alkaline silver generator? That translates into maximising the level of dissolved hydrogen. What is not clear is whether the hydrogen is simply dissolved H2 or "nascent" hydrogen as single-atom H, but presumably it is the latter. In that case I would think vigorous stirring around the area of the negative electrode is advisable - sweep hydrogen away before it can combine to produce H2 gas. How much nascent H can water hold?
Re: CS>Re: a reason to buy 400ppm CS
Reid, Wow, what pops in my mind is the word "nonsequitur". I merely said "DOUBLE YUCK!". You don't know me or my history, and you most certainly know nothing about what I have been through and survived in my life. Therefore, it is ridiculous on your part to assume how I would react to poor people or that I could not survive in such circumstances based on the two words "DOUBLE YUCK!" Perhaps you should be better prepared to defend your case rather than try to defeat an opinion via personal attack. Shame on YOU for passing judgement on ME! Leacy Life is Good! Sometimes in spite of those who try to make the path difficult! GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Sea Silver
Thank you for your input! Valerie _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>FDA and FTC
What US suppliers are doing for Canadian customers who can't get certain supplements that are unavailable in Canada, is to simply send them via courier. It's the RECEIVING of the package that's illegal. Until the dust settles on the silver issue, distribution from points north (or south) of the border may be a viable option. It's a matter of enforcement. Also, the FTC and FDA have no authority over the content of Canadian or foreign websites, and Health Canada is very reluctant to rule on anything other than safety issues (but could be induced to). ciao Duncan --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.264 / Virus Database: 136 - Release Date: 7/2/01 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>one more returned email
looks like you put a space between jon and nelson. Just a thought. CK - Original Message - From: "Terry Chamberlin" To: Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: CS>one more returned email | I sent an email to jon_nel...@3com.com, twice returned | both times. Jon, What's happening! | | __ | Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca | | | -- | The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. | | To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: | silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com | with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. | | To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com | Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html | List maintainer: Mike Devour | |
Re: CS>Acid/alkaline silver generator?
Hi Kevin; I had read that you can separate ions by their charge by using either DC potential, OR by using magnets. You don't need current. <> It won't be catastrophic as I've been using it for a year now. Disappointing? Well, it has enough power to hydrolize the water. <> For hydrolizing the water, yes. But it is the potential that attracts/repels the ions. <<5: What exactly are we trying to achieve - is it alkaline pH, negative ORP (oxidation/reduction potential), or "microclustering" of the water?>> I want the ORP and the alkaline...both are easy to do. <> When you split water you get OH- and H+...in other words the hydrogen keeps an extra electron. That's why it gives a high ORP. <> H- will be reluctant to go near another H- <<6: There is one site that nicely provides the clues for making a cheap unit - http://www.quantumbalancing.com/e-water.htm. Notice that carbon electrodes seem to be used.>> Thanks for the link ciao Duncan --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.264 / Virus Database: 136 - Release Date: 7/2/01 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>one more returned email
I sent an email to jon_nel...@3com.com, twice returned both times. Jon, What's happening! __ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
RE: CS>Acid/alkaline silver generator?
Kevin, thanks for those links. Makes more sense to me now especially where
others were talking about using C-S as the mineral necessary for
conductibility in distilled water, for a second stage Acid/alkaline silver
generator.
Quite a few years ago I recall a "miracle water" machine made by some
engineer that used a "vortex" as part of his machine. It just hooked up
under the sink. All stainless steel and a bit pricy for me so I never
pursued that. The information sent to be (this was before the internet) was
several pages of his creditenials and explanation of how it worked. I seem
to recall that the super fast moving water was critical and maybe it moved
around a magnet or something. Showed pictures before/after of plants, blood
cells. A lot of details, sure wish I could find that. Sounds to me like the
ORP you talked about.
Ed Kasper LAC
Santa Cruz, CA
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Nolan [mailto:ken...@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 2:49 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Acid/alkaline silver generator?
Hi, Duncan.
Firstly, I'm a newbie to this game and have yet to
construct my own unit. Hopefully there are experienced users of
Acid/Alkaline makers that can contribute - hello Nina. Having said that, the
following observations may help.
1: Magnets will do nothing in respect of separating ions in solution.
("Magnetic conditioning" of water is a separate field of which I have no
firm opinion on at this point).
2: You seem to be referring to the DIY plans at angelfire.com.au when
talking about 12V as the suggested value. Attempting to use 4000 volts would
likely prove either catastrophic or disappointing, depending on the
available current draw. A potential (voltage) without current can do
nothing - it is current flow over time that matters. Optimum voltage - who
knows? I'd try about 30V initially, based on the following.
3: The whole area is "wooley" - there are loose parameters such as
appropriate water conductivity, current draw, electrolysing time etc that
are just not properly discussed anywhere I have found. An example of trying
to "back-figure": Most commercial units seem to be rated at around 50-100
watts. Assuming 12 V DC at the electrodes, that works out at about 4-8 amps
current through the cell. That is supposed to be using just filtered tap
water. This seems way out. I have done a quick experiment, modifying my CS
unit. Two silver plate electrodes, each having a wetted area of 160mm X 40mm
X 2(both sides of plate included), separated by 62mm, with 23.7 V applied
between them, gave the following current draws:
Distilled water:
1.5 mA
Tap water:
21.3 mA
Tap water plus 1/2 level tsp potassium citrate dissolved in: 393 mA
While some vendors of batch type units recommend adding a pinch of sea
salt, it would have to be an awfully big pinch to get even 1 amp flowing. So
there are big question marks. Tap water conductivity will vary enormously
from one locale to another, which to me makes nonsense of any standard
procedure assuming tap water, which is just what most units do. Output must
be markedly dependent on input.
5: What exactly are we trying to achieve - is it alkaline pH, negative ORP
(oxidation/reduction potential), or "microclustering" of the water? All
three are variously claimed to be "the" important factor. If it's pH, then
just adding a pinch of lime to plain water would suffice. If microclustering
is the thing, then despite the impression given by most vendors, only a tiny
fraction of the water could be converted, given the running times and likely
currents applying to their machines. I think the fellow at
www.h-minus-ion.org makes most sense - a highly negative ORP seems to be the
number one factor. That translates into maximising the level of dissolved
hydrogen. What is not clear is whether the hydrogen is simply dissolved H2
or "nascent" hydrogen as single-atom H, but presumably it is the latter. In
that case I would think vigorous stirring around the area of the negative
electrode is advisable - sweep hydrogen away before it can combine to
produce H2 gas. How much nascent H can water hold? How much is desirable?
What factors affect it's stability? I have not even seen these questions
asked let alone answered. So without solid parameters to aim for, I'm afraid
much is left to anecdotal accounts and vendor statements that often
conflict. Vendors can't be blamed for unwillingness to divulge all, but it
would help to get some really useful info!
6: There is one site that nicely provides the clues for making a cheap
unit - http://www.quantumbalancing.com/e-water.htm. Notice that carbon
electrodes seem to be used.
Hope the above helps. Regards, Kevin Nolan ken...@optusnet.com.au
Original message:
Hi Kevin;
The instructions for the alkaline water maker say that 12 volts is
enough...
some instructions I saw somewhere indicate you could also use one or 2
magnets to separate the wat
CS>Sweating
Another way to induce sweating is to drink a good quality soup. I just happen to notice that if I am having chicken soup and I drink a lot of the broth, I just start sweating. It's usually annoying but I guess it can be therapeutic.
Re: CS>***Re: Infrared saunas
- Original Message - From: Ode Coyote To: Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 7:24 AM Subject: Re: CS>***Re: Infrared saunas > OK , could be mistaken...but why the ground level atmospheric ozone > warnings? > Ken Because the weather people are a bunch of IGNORAMUSES, that's why! They NEVER thought to question the negative reports of "ozone," which was really ozone COMPOUNDS. And they believe what the government tells them. It's like the information all over the net about how Colloidal Silver causes argyria. Now you and I and everyone on this list knows that the argyria is caused by Silver COMPOUNDS, but does anyone take the trouble to check it out? NO! And they don't think to. What we need on the ground is MORE, not less ozone. Then at least there would be a better chance of all those pollutants getting cleaned up. You might want to join the oxyplus list. oxyplus-subscr...@egroups.com Also, go to http://plasmafire.com and ask Dr. Saul Pressman for his free booklet. This will help to clear out a lot of the misinformation. Best, Nina -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: a reason to buy 400ppm CS
I'll bet that every village has at least one motor vehicle with a battery. Even a marginal junk battery that won't start a car or motor bike will do. Solar distillers, rain/dew collectors and the like are dirt cheap to build out of junk, if not absolutely free. The only expense would be the silver at $6 or so an oz. One oz .999 fine Bullion coins cost between $8 and $12 to literally make barrels of CS. If they have the infrastucture to get to the store or have things brought in and the money to buy Microdyne, they can make their own CS a lot cheaper...probably for less than 10 cents a gallon. How much does Mycrodyne cost? Ken At 07:22 PM 12/7/01 +0600, you wrote: >Dear Ken, >In the U.S. and Europe there is superb infrastructure (good roads, >working phones, etc.) educated people, and vibrant markets. But in less >developed countries all of these things are lacking. Stand back and try >to imagine a completely different economy. None of the resources you're >talking about are generally available. The key is sustainability. What >can be accomplished with minimal rescources and infrastructure? It is >necessary to crawl before walking. >Reid > >Ode Coyote said: >I fail to see how buying any commercial CS at any price could be cheaper > >than a couple of silver wires , a handful of batteries or the neighbors >car >and a few cups of rain water or dew when the only real expense is the >silver at $6 an oz and one ounce makes many many gallons of CS. >Ken > > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >List maintainer: Mike Devour > >
CS>FDA and FTC
Good morning All, The Colloidal Silver Database website has been updated to include further information on the ongoing actions of both the FDA and the FTC regarding silver products. The update includes: *the letter written by ebay.com *an FTC letter sent to a site that contains information only on colloidal silver *a brief commentary on the FDA's actions to date http://silverdata.20m.com/fda.html However, I am missing one of the FDA letters I saved. The "cyber letter" that I have posted was written on Jan 1, 2001. I saw ( and thought I saved ) a RECENT FDA letter that contained different language than the original "stock" letter that had been sent out in the past. There are a few key sentance changes, if I remember correctly, and I would very much like to highlight those changes. If anyone ( James? ) has a copy, I would very much appreciate a copy ( silverd...@hotmail.com ). Thank You! Jason _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>***Re: Infrared saunas
OK , could be mistaken...but why the ground level atmospheric ozone warnings? Ken At 07:12 AM 12/6/01 -0500, you wrote: > >- Original Message - >From: Ode Coyote >To: >Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:16 AM >Subject: Re: CS>***Re: Infrared saunas > > >> I would be cautious with ozone [O3] It is highly corrosive, will eat >the >> tires right off your car, has high atmospheric level warnings in weather >> reports for people with respiratory problems and probably acts as a very >> potent free radical in the body...the sort of thing that people take >> antioxidents for. >> Ken > >Ken, >It is absolutely not true that O3 acts as a free radical in the body. The >only true statement is that O3 will corrode certain materials with time. > >As I said in a previous post, there is lots of misinformation about >ozone--primarily based on experiments done almost 70 years ago with ozone >COMPOUNDS. These compounds are what is at the ground level, and which the >weather people make such a fuss about. Most writers--even those who praise >ozone therapy--make the mistake of confusing the effects of PURE ozone with >the effects of CONTAMINATED ozone, or ozone COMPOUNDS (one of which contains >nitrogen). *Pure ozone is not toxic.* At high levels it will irritate the >respiratory tract, in which case one should simply stop breathing it. But >this is a lot different from your implication of a more generalized, >inherent ozone toxicity. > >Parenthetically, many ozone generators do not emit pure ozone, which is why >some people have a problem with them. A friend loaned me an "ozone" air >purification unit and even at a low setting I could not tolerate it because >it was so foul. This is not pure ozone. Ozone mixed with other gases is not >ozone. > >There is a wonderful article by Clark E. Thorp, called "The Toxicity of >Ozone: A Report and Bibliography" that originally appeared in Industrial >Medicine and Surgery, 19:2, 45-57, February, 1950. He does an extensive >review of the literature and goes into great detail about how and why the >misconceptions about ozone took place. In fact, one researcher realized that >a report he'd made about ozone was really about NITROGEN compounds; and then >went back and redid the entire study. > >Ozone is unstable. When in the body, it breaks down into OXYGEN. This makes >it so useful for fighting infections. > >I go into this in much greater detail in my upcoming *Handbook of Rife >Frequency Healing.* There is a 10-page section in my book on oxygen >therapies, for which I consulted some experts in the field. > >Regards, >Nina Silver, Ph.D. > >Author, *The Handbook of Rife Frequency Healing* >Order the book on my website http://www.heart-of-healing.com > > > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >List maintainer: Mike Devour > >
Re: CS>Acid/alkaline silver generator?
Hi, Duncan.
Firstly, I'm a newbie to this game and have yet to
construct my own unit. Hopefully there are experienced users of Acid/Alkaline
makers that can contribute - hello Nina. Having said that, the following
observations may help.
1: Magnets will do nothing in respect of separating ions in solution.
("Magnetic conditioning" of water is a separate field of which I have no firm
opinion on at this point).
2: You seem to be referring to the DIY plans at angelfire.com.au when talking
about 12V as the suggested value. Attempting to use 4000 volts would likely
prove either catastrophic or disappointing, depending on the available current
draw. A potential (voltage) without current can do nothing - it is current flow
over time that matters. Optimum voltage - who knows? I'd try about 30V
initially, based on the following.
3: The whole area is "wooley" - there are loose parameters such as appropriate
water conductivity, current draw, electrolysing time etc that are just not
properly discussed anywhere I have found. An example of trying to
"back-figure": Most commercial units seem to be rated at around 50-100 watts.
Assuming 12 V DC at the electrodes, that works out at about 4-8 amps current
through the cell. That is supposed to be using just filtered tap water. This
seems way out. I have done a quick experiment, modifying my CS unit. Two silver
plate electrodes, each having a wetted area of 160mm X 40mm X 2(both sides of
plate included), separated by 62mm, with 23.7 V applied between them, gave the
following current draws:
Distilled water:
1.5 mA
Tap water:
21.3 mA
Tap water plus 1/2 level tsp potassium citrate dissolved in: 393 mA
While some vendors of batch type units recommend adding a pinch of sea salt, it
would have to be an awfully big pinch to get even 1 amp flowing. So there are
big question marks. Tap water conductivity will vary enormously from one locale
to another, which to me makes nonsense of any standard procedure assuming tap
water, which is just what most units do. Output must be markedly dependent on
input.
5: What exactly are we trying to achieve - is it alkaline pH, negative ORP
(oxidation/reduction potential), or "microclustering" of the water? All three
are variously claimed to be "the" important factor. If it's pH, then just
adding a pinch of lime to plain water would suffice. If microclustering is the
thing, then despite the impression given by most vendors, only a tiny fraction
of the water could be converted, given the running times and likely currents
applying to their machines. I think the fellow at www.h-minus-ion.org makes
most sense - a highly negative ORP seems to be the number one factor. That
translates into maximising the level of dissolved hydrogen. What is not clear
is whether the hydrogen is simply dissolved H2 or "nascent" hydrogen as
single-atom H, but presumably it is the latter. In that case I would think
vigorous stirring around the area of the negative electrode is advisable -
sweep hydrogen away before it can combine to produce H2 gas. How much nascent H
can water hold? How much is desirable? What factors affect it's stability? I
have not even seen these questions asked let alone answered. So without solid
parameters to aim for, I'm afraid much is left to anecdotal accounts and vendor
statements that often conflict. Vendors can't be blamed for unwillingness to
divulge all, but it would help to get some really useful info!
6: There is one site that nicely provides the clues for making a cheap unit -
http://www.quantumbalancing.com/e-water.htm. Notice that carbon electrodes seem
to be used.
Hope the above helps. Regards, Kevin Nolan ken...@optusnet.com.au
Original message:
Hi Kevin;
The instructions for the alkaline water maker say that 12 volts is enough...
some instructions I saw somewhere indicate you could also use one or 2
magnets to separate the water into ionic components, and that current was
not required; only the potential was.
Or are we interested in not only ionic separation, but hydrolization to get
those hydrogen ions?
The 12-volt thing takes several hours...how about if I was to try the 4000
volt microwave circuit I use to make colloidal silver?? Do you think I could
make a batch in several minutes?
Anyone got some details/ideas on this?
Duncan Crow
