CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[André Juthe]

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

/André

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Tam Gray]

Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe like
myself?

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com wrote:


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

 /André



-- 
~Tam
www.tamgrayphotography.com

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[nessie]

  
  
Excellent question Tam.
  I am another "common Joe".
  I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
  Grant.
  **
  On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:


  Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does
this mean for a Joe like myself?
  
On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André
  Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  

  http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF
  
  
  
  http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF
  
  
  
  
  /André 

  




-- 
~Tam
  www.tamgrayphotography.com

  


  



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The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Gary Hilt]

II USE SILVER IM MY DRY EYES ALL THE TIME NO PROBLEM

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:40 PM, nessie nes...@shaw.ca wrote:

  Excellent question Tam.
 I am another common Joe.
 I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
 Grant.
 **
 On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:

 Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe like
 myself?

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

  /André



  --
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com


  -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe:  Archives:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
 Off-Topic discussions:  List Owner: Mike Devour



-- 
Eph 1:2  Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord
Jesus Christ.
Gary  Lennie

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[André Juthe]

Gary, that's like arguing: I have smoked all my life without cancer, no
problem . . .

2014-12-17 18:43 GMT+01:00 Gary Hilt sobertogod1n...@gmail.com:

 II USE SILVER IM MY DRY EYES ALL THE TIME NO PROBLEM

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:40 PM, nessie nes...@shaw.ca wrote:

  Excellent question Tam.
 I am another common Joe.
 I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
 Grant.
 **
 On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:

 Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe
 like myself?

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

  /André



  --
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com


  -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe:
 Archives:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
 Off-Topic discussions:  List Owner: Mike Devour



 --
 Eph 1:2  Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the
 Lord Jesus Christ.
 Gary  Lennie

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Tam Gray]

Andre, I simply don't understand the Conclusion of these studies.
I'm not trying to argue.  I genuinely want to know what it is that I need
to be concerned about.
Can you please advise?

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:56 PM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com wrote:

 Gary, that's like arguing: I have smoked all my life without cancer, no
 problem . . .

 2014-12-17 18:43 GMT+01:00 Gary Hilt sobertogod1n...@gmail.com:

 II USE SILVER IM MY DRY EYES ALL THE TIME NO PROBLEM

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:40 PM, nessie nes...@shaw.ca wrote:

  Excellent question Tam.
 I am another common Joe.
 I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
 Grant.
 **
 On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:

 Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe
 like myself?

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

  /André



  --
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com


  -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal
 Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe:
 Archives:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
 Off-Topic discussions:  List Owner: Mike Devour



 --
 Eph 1:2  Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the
 Lord Jesus Christ.
 Gary  Lennie



-- 
~Tam
www.tamgrayphotography.com

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[mgperrault]

You can see the little nano bits of silver or gold in the photos.  They 
are there in the tissue, and spread through your body, not just eyes.  
Is it totally harmless to have them in your tissues, mitochondria and 
interstitial spaces? Probably not.  Its the choice one makes to use a 
fairly harmless antibiotic.  A certain amount of silver exists in 
food.Becker found that silver could de-differentiate cells.  A 
powerful bioactive metal, potentially useful for healing, altering or 
killing.



M


On 12/17/2014 10:40 AM, nessie wrote:

Excellent question Tam.
I am another common Joe.
I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
Grant.
**
On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:
Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe 
like myself?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com 
mailto:andre.ju...@gmail.com wrote:



http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

/André



--
~Tam
www.tamgrayphotography.com http://www.tamgrayphotography.com


-- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal 
Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: 
Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html 
Off-Topic discussions: List Owner: Mike Devour 

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Marshall]

There are several things which make me question this study.

First it is In Vitro, which does not necessarily correspond to in vivo 
application.


Second this was done with a growing culture.  That is tremendously 
different than tissue that is not growing.  For instance in an adult 
there are three things which are continually growing, hair, fingernails, 
and the dermis.  And as we know any sign of argyria shows up in these 
three areas.  That is silver tends to be captured by growing tissue.  So 
although this might apply to a fetus, it certainly does not to an adult.


Third they say that this solution is citrate stabilized.  This doesn't 
make a lot of sense to me.  It sounds like they are saying that silver 
ions present are reacted with citric acid to produce silver citrate to 
maintain solubility.  This should have nothing to do with the particles, 
which they are suppose to be studying.  However it is known that silver 
citrate transverses barriers in the body that most other forms of silver 
do not.  This is a concern.


Fourth they indicate that they are adding silver nitrate to the particle 
solution.  This, if I am reading it correctly, completely invalidates 
the results, since the nitrate is highly toxic to tissues, and very 
prone to plating out on the particles making them grow (photo 
development process).


Fifth, they attribute the toxicity of silver nitrate to the silver ions, 
which is incorrect, the toxicity is from the nitrate ion.  Other forms 
of silver, such as silver oxide, silver hydroxide, silver citrate and so 
forth do not have this toxicity.


Because of the above, I think it is impossible to draw any conclusions 
when applied to normal usage of colloidal silver.


Marshall




On 12/17/2014 11:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:
Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe 
like myself?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com 
mailto:andre.ju...@gmail.com wrote:



http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

/André



--
~Tam
www.tamgrayphotography.com http://www.tamgrayphotography.com

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[André Juthe]

When I have time I may read the studies, I have only seen the interviews by
the researchers. Here is a google translation of it:

Two years ago, New Technology report on the fears surrounding the
nanoparticles of silver can contribute to more disease-causing bacteria
become resistant to antibiotics. Now, reports researchers at Lund
University that nanosilver affect stem cells that give rise to neurons in
the brain and retina.

The studies were partly on human cells in culture, and cell models of the
retina in mice. The cells were exposed to low doses of nanoparticles of
silver and gold. The particles had a diameter of 20 and 80 nanometers
(billionths of a meter). It is far less than the size of a cell and allows
them to slip into our cells which are liable to affect them biologically.

The research results show that cell damage is primarily caused by silver
ions released from the nanoparticles. That silver nanoparticles, or
nanosilver as it is often called, is more harmful than other silver depends
on ytförstoringseffekten of nanomaterials. A larger effective surface
releases more silver ions and exhibits greater toxicity, it is pointed out
in a press release.

- Our results are indeed alarming, says Fredrik Johansson at Lund
University.

Silver nanoparticles are mainly used as anti-bacterial coating in many
products. These include, for example, refrigerators, washing machines,
sports clothing and shoes. The reason is that the silver ions released from
the silver is bactericidal. Silver ions are also present in products in
alternative medicine, so-called colloidal silver. The studies also show
that the gold particles can be harmful.

Now my opinion is that one still has to be careful before jumping into any
firm conclusion. See how the study was done, doses and also compare with
other studies that support that it is not harmful.

/André

2014-12-17 19:47 GMT+01:00 mgperrault mgperra...@aol.com:

  You can see the little nano bits of silver or gold in the photos.  They
 are there in the tissue, and spread through your body, not just eyes.  Is
 it totally harmless to have them in your tissues, mitochondria and
 interstitial spaces? Probably not.  Its the choice one makes to use a
 fairly harmless antibiotic.  A certain amount of silver exists in food.
 Becker found that silver could de-differentiate cells.  A powerful
 bioactive metal, potentially useful for healing, altering or killing.


 M



 On 12/17/2014 10:40 AM, nessie wrote:

 Excellent question Tam.
 I am another common Joe.
 I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
 Grant.
 **
 On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:

 Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe like
 myself?

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

  /André



  --
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com


 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe:  Archives:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
 Off-Topic discussions:  List Owner: Mike Devour

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[André Juthe]

Thank you Marshall, for your review. There is also the concern with the
dose, while a certain dose maybe very harmful for a foetus, it may be
completely non-harmful for a being with larger size, even if the dose is
proportional to the size. Not every compound operate proportional to the
size of the individual.

However, do you have any reference to the claim that toxicity is from the
nitrate ion and not the other types of silver you mentions?

/André

2014-12-17 20:03 GMT+01:00 Marshall mdud...@king-cart.com:

  There are several things which make me question this study.

 First it is In Vitro, which does not necessarily correspond to in vivo
 application.

 Second this was done with a growing culture.  That is tremendously
 different than tissue that is not growing.  For instance in an adult there
 are three things which are continually growing, hair, fingernails, and the
 dermis.  And as we know any sign of argyria shows up in these three areas.
 That is silver tends to be captured by growing tissue.  So although this
 might apply to a fetus, it certainly does not to an adult.

 Third they say that this solution is citrate stabilized.  This doesn't
 make a lot of sense to me.  It sounds like they are saying that silver ions
 present are reacted with citric acid to produce silver citrate to maintain
 solubility.  This should have nothing to do with the particles, which they
 are suppose to be studying.  However it is known that silver citrate
 transverses barriers in the body that most other forms of silver do not.
 This is a concern.

 Fourth they indicate that they are adding silver nitrate to the particle
 solution.  This, if I am reading it correctly, completely invalidates the
 results, since the nitrate is highly toxic to tissues, and very prone to
 plating out on the particles making them grow (photo development process).

 Fifth, they attribute the toxicity of silver nitrate to the silver ions,
 which is incorrect, the toxicity is from the nitrate ion.  Other forms of
 silver, such as silver oxide, silver hydroxide, silver citrate and so forth
 do not have this toxicity.

 Because of the above, I think it is impossible to draw any conclusions
 when applied to normal usage of colloidal silver.

 Marshall





 On 12/17/2014 11:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:

 Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe like
 myself?

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

  /André



  --
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Dee]

You can use CS in the eyes, I always have...Dee

Sent from my iPad

 On 17 Dec 2014, at 18:20, Tam Gray shadesofgra...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Andre, I simply don't understand the Conclusion of these studies. 
 I'm not trying to argue.  I genuinely want to know what it is that I need to 
 be concerned about.  
 Can you please advise?
 
 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:56 PM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com wrote:
 Gary, that's like arguing: I have smoked all my life without cancer, no 
 problem . . .
 
 2014-12-17 18:43 GMT+01:00 Gary Hilt sobertogod1n...@gmail.com:
 
 II USE SILVER IM MY DRY EYES ALL THE TIME NO PROBLEM
 
 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:40 PM, nessie nes...@shaw.ca wrote:
 Excellent question Tam.
 I am another common Joe.
 I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
 Grant.
 **
 On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:
 Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe 
 like myself?
 
 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF
 
 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF
 
 /André 
 
 
 -- 
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com
 
 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. 
 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic 
 discussions: List Owner: Mike Devour
 
 
 -- 
 Eph 1:2  Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord 
 Jesus Christ. 
 Gary  Lennie
 
 
 -- 
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Marshall]

Silver nitrate has two ions, silver and the nitrate.  Compounds of 
silver, such as silver citrate, silver acetate, silver chloride, silver 
oxide and silver hydroxide are not particularly toxic.  Nitrates on the 
other hand are somewhat toxic.  This includes hydrogen nitrate (aka 
nitric acid), potassium nitrate (ORAL (LD50): Acute: 3750 mg/kg), sodium 
nitrate (ORAL (LD50): Acute: 1267 mg/kg ), ammonium nitrate (Ammonium 
nitrate: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 2217 mg/kg).  Silver nitrate has a toxicity 
of ORAL (LD50): Acute: 1173 mg/kg, which is right in line with the other 
nitrates.


For compounds of silver (except silver nitrate), I find either the msds 
shows N/A, or a health rating of 0 (which means benign), or in on one 
MSDS sheet as being greater than 10 grams per kg.  Note that table salt 
is 3 gram per kg, so that means it is less toxic than table salt.


http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1517-8382201300033script=sci_arttext
Silver-based antimicrobials can be effective in the treatment of 
infections on account non-toxicity of active Ag^+ to human cells (4)


I had read that the nitrate ion is responsible for the toxicity of 
silver nitrate long ago, but am unable to find the reference now.


Marshall

On 12/17/2014 2:11 PM, André Juthe wrote:
Thank you Marshall, for your review. There is also the concern with 
the dose, while a certain dose maybe very harmful for a foetus, it may 
be completely non-harmful for a being with larger size, even if the 
dose is proportional to the size. Not every compound operate 
proportional to the size of the individual.


However, do you have any reference to the claim that toxicity is from 
the nitrate ion and not the other types of silver you mentions?


/André

2014-12-17 20:03 GMT+01:00 Marshall mdud...@king-cart.com 
mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com:


There are several things which make me question this study.

First it is In Vitro, which does not necessarily correspond to in
vivo application.

Second this was done with a growing culture.  That is tremendously
different than tissue that is not growing.  For instance in an
adult there are three things which are continually growing, hair,
fingernails, and the dermis.  And as we know any sign of argyria
shows up in these three areas.  That is silver tends to be
captured by growing tissue.  So although this might apply to a
fetus, it certainly does not to an adult.

Third they say that this solution is citrate stabilized.  This
doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  It sounds like they are saying
that silver ions present are reacted with citric acid to produce
silver citrate to maintain solubility.  This should have nothing
to do with the particles, which they are suppose to be studying. 
However it is known that silver citrate transverses barriers in

the body that most other forms of silver do not.  This is a concern.

Fourth they indicate that they are adding silver nitrate to the
particle solution.  This, if I am reading it correctly, completely
invalidates the results, since the nitrate is highly toxic to
tissues, and very prone to plating out on the particles making
them grow (photo development process).

Fifth, they attribute the toxicity of silver nitrate to the silver
ions, which is incorrect, the toxicity is from the nitrate ion. 
Other forms of silver, such as silver oxide, silver hydroxide,

silver citrate and so forth do not have this toxicity.

Because of the above, I think it is impossible to draw any
conclusions when applied to normal usage of colloidal silver.

Marshall





On 12/17/2014 11:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:

Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a
Joe like myself?

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe
andre.ju...@gmail.com mailto:andre.ju...@gmail.com wrote:


http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

/André



-- 
~Tam

www.tamgrayphotography.com http://www.tamgrayphotography.com

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Victor Cozzetto]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Marshal. I would add...

We know historically that countless people have been using colloidal silver
in their eyes for decades, without any ill effects. Furthermore, it was
common medical practice in the early to mid twentieth century to put drops
of silver nitrate in babies' eyes. Such a medical practice is practically a
worst case scenario with regard to silver use, and yet even that wide
spread practice has no recorded side effects (other than temporarily
turning the baby's eyes black).

Victor

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 4:04 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com wrote:

 When I have time I may read the studies, I have only seen the interviews
 by the researchers. Here is a google translation of it:

 Two years ago, New Technology report on the fears surrounding the
 nanoparticles of silver can contribute to more disease-causing bacteria
 become resistant to antibiotics. Now, reports researchers at Lund
 University that nanosilver affect stem cells that give rise to neurons in
 the brain and retina.

 The studies were partly on human cells in culture, and cell models of the
 retina in mice. The cells were exposed to low doses of nanoparticles of
 silver and gold. The particles had a diameter of 20 and 80 nanometers
 (billionths of a meter). It is far less than the size of a cell and allows
 them to slip into our cells which are liable to affect them biologically.

 The research results show that cell damage is primarily caused by silver
 ions released from the nanoparticles. That silver nanoparticles, or
 nanosilver as it is often called, is more harmful than other silver depends
 on ytförstoringseffekten of nanomaterials. A larger effective surface
 releases more silver ions and exhibits greater toxicity, it is pointed out
 in a press release.

 - Our results are indeed alarming, says Fredrik Johansson at Lund
 University.

 Silver nanoparticles are mainly used as anti-bacterial coating in many
 products. These include, for example, refrigerators, washing machines,
 sports clothing and shoes. The reason is that the silver ions released from
 the silver is bactericidal. Silver ions are also present in products in
 alternative medicine, so-called colloidal silver. The studies also show
 that the gold particles can be harmful.

 Now my opinion is that one still has to be careful before jumping into any
 firm conclusion. See how the study was done, doses and also compare with
 other studies that support that it is not harmful.

 /André

 2014-12-17 19:47 GMT+01:00 mgperrault mgperra...@aol.com:

  You can see the little nano bits of silver or gold in the photos.  They
 are there in the tissue, and spread through your body, not just eyes.  Is
 it totally harmless to have them in your tissues, mitochondria and
 interstitial spaces? Probably not.  Its the choice one makes to use a
 fairly harmless antibiotic.  A certain amount of silver exists in food.
 Becker found that silver could de-differentiate cells.  A powerful
 bioactive metal, potentially useful for healing, altering or killing.


 M



 On 12/17/2014 10:40 AM, nessie wrote:

 Excellent question Tam.
 I am another common Joe.
 I sort of gathered that you should not use c/s on the eyes.
 Grant.
 **
 On 17/12/2014 8:50 AM, Tam Gray wrote:

 Can you translate this?  In conclusion, what does this mean for a Joe
 like myself?

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:03 AM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0105359representation=PDF


 http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058211representation=PDF

  /André



  --
 ~Tam
 www.tamgrayphotography.com


 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe:
 Archives:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
 Off-Topic discussions:  List Owner: Mike Devour

RE: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Neville]

Of course you can Dee, that paper does not refer to anything remotely similar 
to what we make and use.
As with all...studies?... none relate to LVDC and pure DW, besides which they 
are all designed to give results according to what results they want to get, 
and based on who provides the funding to achieve that end.
The old N/A would be apropos here.

N.

Subject: Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain
From: d...@deetroy.org
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 19:34:17 +
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

You can use CS in the eyes, I always have...Dee

Sent from my iPad
On 17 Dec 2014, at 18:20, Tam Gray shadesofgra...@gmail.com wrote:

Andre, I simply don't understand the Conclusion of these studies. 
I'm not trying to argue.  I genuinely want to know what it is that I need to be 
concerned about.  
Can you please advise?

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:56 PM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com 
wrote:Gary, that's like arguing: I have smoked all my life without cancer, no 
problem . . .
2014-12-17 18:43 GMT+01:00 Gary Hilt sobertogod1n...@gmail.com:II USE SILVER 
IM MY DRY EYES ALL THE TIME NO PROBLEM



  

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Jim Holmes]

I am reminded of the studies where concentrated LSD was placed on human
cell cultures, and they were damaged.  This in vitro sutdyt has nothing to
do with what happens in vivio.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Neville one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Of course you can Dee, that paper does not refer to anything remotely
 similar to what we make and use.

 As with all...studies?... none relate to LVDC and pure DW, besides which
 they are all designed to give results according to what results they want
 to get, and based on who provides the funding to achieve that end.

 The old N/A would be apropos here.

 N.

 --
 Subject: Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain
 From: d...@deetroy.org
 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 19:34:17 +
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com

 You can use CS in the eyes, I always have...Dee

 Sent from my iPad

 On 17 Dec 2014, at 18:20, Tam Gray shadesofgra...@gmail.com wrote:

 Andre, I simply don't understand the Conclusion of these studies.
 I'm not trying to argue.  I genuinely want to know what it is that I need
 to be concerned about.
 Can you please advise?

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:56 PM, André Juthe andre.ju...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Gary, that's like arguing: I have smoked all my life without cancer, no
 problem . . .

 2014-12-17 18:43 GMT+01:00 Gary Hilt sobertogod1n...@gmail.com:

 II USE SILVER IM MY DRY EYES ALL THE TIME NO PROBLEM

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver for eye and brain

[Victor Cozzetto]

Well said.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Neville one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Of course you can Dee, that paper does not refer to anything remotely
 similar to what we make and use.

 As with all...studies?... none relate to LVDC and pure DW, besides which
 they are all designed to give results according to what results they want
 to get, and based on who provides the funding to achieve that end.

 The old N/A would be apropos here.

 N.

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver

[Phil Morrison]

I read both studies.

How in the world does one measure inflammation and
oxidative stress in artificial tissue?   Where are the amino
acids, minerals, proteins, enzymes, and oxidation cell
regulators, etc that a real body rallies to fight
inflammation?

The use of silver nitrate in this study contaminates the
whole field.   One is reminded that CS should be used
in babies' eyes, not caustic silver nitrate.

And the implication that CS might be involved in
Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, or ALS is better left unmentioned,
since we know these diseases are caused by aluminum
plus mineral deficiencies.

Re: CSTwo studies shows risk with nanosilver

[John Popelish]

On 12/17/2014 09:10 PM, Phil Morrison wrote:



I read both studies.

How in the world does one measure inflammation and
oxidative stress in artificial tissue?   Where are the amino
acids, minerals, proteins, enzymes, and oxidation cell
regulators, etc that a real body rallies to fight
inflammation?

The use of silver nitrate in this study contaminates the
whole field. Â  One is reminded that CS should be used
in babies' eyes, not caustic silver nitrate.

And the implication that CS might be involved in
Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, or ALS is better left unmentioned,
since we know these diseases are caused by aluminum
plus mineral deficiencies. Â


Actually, I think they gave colloidal silver a break, in
these tests, because they used silver nitrate as the control
(same silver content, in ionic form) to compare with the
trials of nano particles. Why they didn't use a silver free
control, I don't understand.

Did I read this wrong?

--
Regards,

John Popelish


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