CSArgyria risk...
Neville,
You write:
... I know two women who swear by EIS/CS...
They drag out an old battery unit, 250-300ml glass of rainwater, 3-5
minutes brewing {analysed at 40+ppm} drinking it straight down
immediately after brewing...issue 'terminated'. They *may* make and
take a second glass at the end of the day, to be sure, to be sure.
I met a couple, farmers, who took a daily glass of CS made using a
'pinch of salt' as 'starter' in a home made 3-nines generator, and did
this for several years. They learned about CS during the run-up to Y2K,
and followed exactly instructions that were widely disseminated on
survival-related sites back then.
Those of you who remember that period will recall that we were actively
trying to get the word out to people that the no-salt, lower
concentration approach to making CS was as effective and much safer.
Well, we were right. When I met these folks in '06, they were both
suffering from a cosmetically obvious case of argyria on their faces
and hands. She had a mask-like discoloration on the lower half of her
face, his was more uniform.
Given their occupation, one expects they both get a lot of sun. Other
issues, like local soil selenium content and dietary habits can also
affect excretion of metals, increasing the risk of argyria.
But the bottom line is, you might want to suggest to them, Neville,
that they should not use that kind of CS on a daily basis but only when
needed, just as you described that they do now, and be sure they have
an adequate amount of selenium and vitamin E in their diet or
supplement program.
Be well,
Mike D.
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself... ]
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RE: CSArgyria risk...
No worries Mike. It's OK, they only do it on the odd occasion when the need
arises, in fact one of them hasn't had a need to use it since she began taking
a daily amount with me {using more appropriate equipment and production methods
of course}.
I do have a philosophy though that if the need should arise {in an emergency
type situation} hitting it hard and fast sometimes I believe is
necessary/preferable. The solution in question may contain a high total silver
count {not forgetting whatever else may be present in that rainwater to form
compounds} but the silver will be mostly ionic immediately after production
which means it would/should pass through the body rather quickly, hence the
rapid flushing of the plumbing and theoretically equally rapid elimination of
silver and any compound/s with it.
I consider there are two types of EIS, a high ionic solution and a more
stabilized particulate solution, and I've always believed both can be used with
efficacy in their own right for a particular circumstance.
The point you make about the salt etc is perfectly valid of course as I'm fully
aware, but I believe most people who make this stuff today would/should have
learnt *something* from those who have gone before us, if not, then they
haven't read appropriate literature.
Finally g I think when people write about using EIS for anything they should
be including what *type* of solution they used, in my mind there is a big
difference. That was the point I was trying to make about UTI's, praps
'colloidal silver' was being used whereas a high ionic solution {using DW if
preferred} may have been more efficacious, that certainly appears to be the
case from my observation. I'm also interested in what effect the pH level
*immediately* after production {higher base or alkaline?} as opposed to the pH
level some time later when that solution has stabilized {back to normal or
around 7.0} has on efficacy as well...If any? I'm developing my own thoughts
on that as well. Praps someone could offer their thoughts on this?
N.
From: mdev...@eskimo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:20:23 -0500
Subject: CSArgyria risk...
Neville,
You write:
... I know two women who swear by EIS/CS...
They drag out an old battery unit, 250-300ml glass of rainwater, 3-5
minutes brewing {analysed at 40+ppm} drinking it straight down
immediately after brewing...issue 'terminated'. They *may* make and
take a second glass at the end of the day, to be sure, to be sure.
But the bottom line is, you might want to suggest to them, Neville,
that they should not use that kind of CS on a daily basis but only when
needed, just as you described that they do now, and be sure they have
an adequate amount of selenium and vitamin E in their diet or
supplement program.
Be well,
Mike D.
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com ]
[Speaking only for myself... ]
--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
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RE: CSArgyria risk
Stan Jones had barely perceptible blue-grey on his eyelids and fingernails from drinking a wretched brew made without following any of the basic guidelines for making safe CS. The blue pictures of him circulated in the major media were obvious Photoshop fakes. JOH -Original Message- From: Garnet [mailto:garnetri...@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:37 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSArgyria risk Are you not aware of the Stan Jones case? Garnet I am not aware of any cases. Do you have any information on this? Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSArgyria risk
Everyone seems to be missing a couple of points. The risk factor 3 to 9 grams [assuming the range rather than the figure] ACCUMULATED over a lifetime could be days, months or decades and is not 'especially' relevent to the form of silver injested though it's probably a major factor...a factor, specific to 'EIS' [electrically isolated colloidal and ionic silver in water], that the studies don't address at all. Silver arsephenamine is something like thousands of PPM silver? [I think it was once used to treat gonorrhea? ..and the other element is Arsenic.] If it's injected over a short period of time, you get ALL of that silver and virtually no time to eliminate any, so it will be retained in short order. Who knows what the Arsenic does to elimination rates? Even then argyria was not a given but an extreme exception, probably because the treatment only lasted for a few days with the exeptions having to do with other unbalances that prevented normal elimination. If you make CS in tap or salt water without any process controls at all, you only make a certain amount of silver salts before the minerals are used up. What is happening though, is extreme runaway where you wind up with hundreds and hundreds of PPM [probably black] silver sludge. If you drink copious amounts of that every day for years [like Stan did]...you are at risk. You have not allowed any elimination time to speak of and the doses are quite high. Running a cup of highly conductive water with no controls for an hour could easily make very low quality 200+ PPM CS. I'll bet that Stan ran through electrodes like mad. If you use CS at 10 to 20 PPM, you can't consume enough silver before the water... or old age ...kills you to overwhelm the elimination rate. MAYBE you can develop argyria in 150 years of daily substitution of water with that CS...point being, people don't live long enough to accumulate 3-9 grams when 94+ % is leaving every 24 hours. [Someone who's good at math can figure it out?] ...and only people who have life threatening illness would even consider using that much CS for that long. The majority of people with those illnesses are older to start with. Silver , in oral doses, gets eliminated at the rate of around 94% in 24 hours. How much actually gets absorbed is a factor there too. Inhaled doses of silver dust, 90+% in 30 days. It ALL must be processed. Injected silver, likewise. [Don't know the elimination rate but obviously, you won't be injecting gallons of 10-20 PPM CS daily over a period of years ] Very small particles and ions should be processed much faster than the chunks [dust] and stable compounds that were used to establish elimination rates, so, the established elimination rates are slow in our specific application of relatively small doses over short and long periods of time. Ode At 09:53 AM 4/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: Terry said: I have read that CS should be taken on an empty stomach for it to be effective. Obviously you feel there is also value in taking CS even if combined with various foods...could you elaborate? The whole 'under the tongue' or 'on an empty stomach' thing is relevant if you are buying CS and taking small amounts of it to minimize the cost. When you drink it freely, I doubt that it matters. I seriously doubt that one teaspoon under the tongue will give my body as much CS or any more benefit than 6-8 oz drunk in a cup of herb tea. If I needed to economize, I would use it carefully. When the cost of CS is only slightly higher (and I mean slightly) than the cost of distilled water, I don't economize. I need to drink plenty of water anyway, I just make a large portion of it water with silver in it. The woman who reported to me that she had had marvelous success against her MS drinking 16-24 oz/day alerted me to the dynamic of copious quantities of CS. I have explored the EPA site (http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0099.htm) thoroughly, and it is irrelevant to the CS we make and ingest. Please notice what they are talking about: Gaul and Staud (1935) reported 70 cases of generalized argyria following organic and colloidal silver medication, including 13 cases of generalized argyria following intravenous silver arsphenamine injection therapy... Argyria developed after a total dose of 4, 7 or 8 g in some patients, while in others, argyria did not develop until after a total dose of 10, 15 or 20 g. The authors concluded that argyria may become clinically apparent after a total accumulated i.v. dose of approximately 8 g of silver arsphenamine. The book entitled Argyria. The Pharmacology of Silver reached the same conclusion, that a total accumulative i.v. dose of 8 gm silver arsphenamine is the limit beyond which argyria may develop (Hill and Pillsbury, 1939). Despite their use of the words colloidal silver, they are talking about silver compounds, NOT electrically isolated silver particles (and absolutely not ionic silver). They are NOT talking about what we use, they are
Re: CSArgyria risk
He was not drinking CS made with distilled water. He was making a witches brew with tap water which contained mostly compounds of silver which we all know will cause CS. Once again I ask, do you know of ANY examples of a person getting argyria from CS made from pure silver and distilled water. I am not aware of any. Marshall Garnet wrote: Are you not aware of the Stan Jones case? Garnet I am not aware of any cases. Do you have any information on this? Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSArgyria risk
Are you not aware of the Stan Jones case? Garnet I am not aware of any cases. Do you have any information on this? Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSFw: CSArgyria risk
- Original Message - From: Ron r...@megsinet.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: Re: CSArgyria risk Stan admittedly used shed water to make his CS -duh - Original Message - From: Garnet garnetri...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:37 AM Subject: Re: CSArgyria risk Are you not aware of the Stan Jones case? Garnet I am not aware of any cases. Do you have any information on this? Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSFw: CSArgyria risk
Shed water? On Sat, 2004-04-10 at 10:56, Ron wrote: - Original Message - From: Ron r...@megsinet.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: Re: CSArgyria risk Stan admittedly used shed water to make his CS -duh - Original Message - From: Garnet garnetri...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:37 AM Subject: Re: CSArgyria risk Are you not aware of the Stan Jones case? Garnet I am not aware of any cases. Do you have any information on this? Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSArgyria risk
Garnet said: Argyria is real and it is a real risk to those making their own CS. It is not that hard to produce a Silver Chloride or Nitrate. Look at the Senator from Montana, he did it in a matter of years, by not being smart about what he was doing. I have to emphatically disagree. I would not call one case of argyria in the last 100 years a real risk. Stan Jones used tap water (most likely polluted city water), brewed his batches for one hour until they looked like coffee, and drank 8 ounces per day for two years. I am not saying there has only been one case of argyria in the last 100 years, I am saying there has been only one case of argyria from CS *made with silver and distilled water.* Every other case of argyria (of which there have not been many) in the last century have been the result of large doses of silver compounds, or even silver dust (such as a silver-smith might be in frequent and regular contact with). Using distilled or deionised water and pure silver and electricity of any voltage less than 120 volts will not 'accidently' make CS that is dangerous. If you cook it to a coffee-color, maybe there is a concern. Anyone on this list drinking coffee-colored CS? I didn't think so. I drink 16-24 oz/day of crystal-clear CS, have done so for over four years. I put CS in everything in our diet I can put it in. Pancake batter in my house is 2 cups of CS with the dry ingredients. Soup is 1 or 2 quarts of CS to cook the vegetables in. Fruit juice (the frozen kind) is made only with CS. Our drinking water (distilled water) is 30% CS. Anytime a liquid is needed in our diet, for drinking or cooking, it's CS. My children are being raised on CS. CS goes in eyes, ears, noses, throats and on anything on the outside of the body it can go on. It treats burns, rashes, stings, cuts and scrapes. It is one of the first things we turn to for health or medical issues. My children are pink and flesh-colored (except where they are tanned). I have no blue gills (or fingernails). My oldest daughter drinks copious amounts of CS (has for the last 4+ years). Her 6-month old son gets CS each day, as well as what he got within his mom. He is pink and healthy and energetic. But no one in my family gets sick. Never. Zip. My kids friends all share their dieases with each other, passing around whatever they have. Haven't you heard? There's a bug going around, does not apply to my family. What did Stan Jones do to get blue? He drank CS-coffee. OK, don't brew CS-coffee (actually, I make my coffee each morning with CS only - I'm talking about coffee-colored CS). I not only don't need to be careful to avoid what Stan Jones did, I would have to try to accomplish it. Colloidal Silver is not something you need to fear, or even be careful about. Think about it: Apart from Stan Jones (who obviously didn't have a clue what he was doing), THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE CASE OF ARGYRIA FROM COLLOIDAL SILVER IN THE LAST CENTURY that was made as we are making it. There have been more reports of overdoses and toxic reactions to virtually every other nutrient our bodies need than to CS. When I was a kid, my friends and I used to deliberately hyperventilate and then hold our breaths in order to make ourselves faint. Then I saw one of my friends go into some kind of seizure doing that, and I stopped. So it's possible to hurt myself with wierd breathing, but I am not careful about breathing, I just do it. So also I use pure silver and pure water and I brew it a bit and I drink it without restraint. Nothing too careful about that. I don't know of a single other nutrient that is safer than CS. My rambling two cents. Terry Chamberlin __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSArgyria risk
I was not speaking of the incidence of Argyria, but rather the chance that one can produce Silver Salts. I know from personal experience how easy it is to contaminate a batch. From that perspective I know the risks to be significant by my own mistakes. Garnet On Fri, 2004-04-09 at 12:22, Terry Chamberlin wrote: Garnet said: Argyria is real and it is a real risk to those making their own CS. It is not that hard to produce a Silver Chloride or Nitrate. Look at the Senator from Montana, he did it in a matter of years, by not being smart about what he was doing. I have to emphatically disagree. I would not call one case of argyria in the last 100 years a real risk. Stan Jones used tap water (most likely polluted city water), brewed his batches for one hour until they looked like coffee, and drank 8 ounces per day for two years. I am not saying there has only been one case of argyria in the last 100 years, I am saying there has been only one case of argyria from CS *made with silver and distilled water.* Every other case of argyria (of which there have not been many) in the last century have been the result of large doses of silver compounds, or even silver dust (such as a silver-smith might be in frequent and regular contact with). Using distilled or deionised water and pure silver and electricity of any voltage less than 120 volts will not 'accidently' make CS that is dangerous. If you cook it to a coffee-color, maybe there is a concern. Anyone on this list drinking coffee-colored CS? I didn't think so. I drink 16-24 oz/day of crystal-clear CS, have done so for over four years. I put CS in everything in our diet I can put it in. Pancake batter in my house is 2 cups of CS with the dry ingredients. Soup is 1 or 2 quarts of CS to cook the vegetables in. Fruit juice (the frozen kind) is made only with CS. Our drinking water (distilled water) is 30% CS. Anytime a liquid is needed in our diet, for drinking or cooking, it's CS. My children are being raised on CS. CS goes in eyes, ears, noses, throats and on anything on the outside of the body it can go on. It treats burns, rashes, stings, cuts and scrapes. It is one of the first things we turn to for health or medical issues. My children are pink and flesh-colored (except where they are tanned). I have no blue gills (or fingernails). My oldest daughter drinks copious amounts of CS (has for the last 4+ years). Her 6-month old son gets CS each day, as well as what he got within his mom. He is pink and healthy and energetic. But no one in my family gets sick. Never. Zip. My kids friends all share their dieases with each other, passing around whatever they have. Haven't you heard? There's a bug going around, does not apply to my family. What did Stan Jones do to get blue? He drank CS-coffee. OK, don't brew CS-coffee (actually, I make my coffee each morning with CS only - I'm talking about coffee-colored CS). I not only don't need to be careful to avoid what Stan Jones did, I would have to try to accomplish it. Colloidal Silver is not something you need to fear, or even be careful about. Think about it: Apart from Stan Jones (who obviously didn't have a clue what he was doing), THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE CASE OF ARGYRIA FROM COLLOIDAL SILVER IN THE LAST CENTURY that was made as we are making it. There have been more reports of overdoses and toxic reactions to virtually every other nutrient our bodies need than to CS. When I was a kid, my friends and I used to deliberately hyperventilate and then hold our breaths in order to make ourselves faint. Then I saw one of my friends go into some kind of seizure doing that, and I stopped. So it's possible to hurt myself with wierd breathing, but I am not careful about breathing, I just do it. So also I use pure silver and pure water and I brew it a bit and I drink it without restraint. Nothing too careful about that. I don't know of a single other nutrient that is safer than CS. My rambling two cents. Terry Chamberlin __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSArgyria risk
Terry Chamberlin wrote: Garnet said: Argyria is real and it is a real risk to those making their own CS. It is not that hard to produce a Silver Chloride or Nitrate. Look at the Senator from Montana, he did it in a matter of years, by not being smart about what he was doing. I have to emphatically disagree. I would not call one case of argyria in the last 100 years a real risk. Stan Jones used tap water (most likely polluted city water), brewed his batches for one hour until they looked like coffee, and drank 8 ounces per day for two years. I am not saying there has only been one case of argyria in the last 100 years, I am saying there has been only one case of argyria from CS *made with silver and distilled water.* I am not aware of any cases. Do you have any information on this? Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
