Re: CSCredit where due
I can agree with that statement concerning the structure of the FDA [who does what and how it's funded definitely needs a work over] but the people who work there, are just like anyone else..NOT a pack of Devils, but people working within the constrains of a faulty structure and doing the best they can with what they have to work with. EVERY group has an element of corruption.haven't seen a church or bridge club yet, that didn't. With that, comes considering alternatives and the fallout from what it takes to accomplish them. Without that consideration , you get Tyranny...swings toward simplistic absolutes that none of us will like the restrictive results of, nor can pay for. This sucks..go control THEM Always winds up controlling YOU. Are we to be trusted to police ourselves any more than the Pharm or the farm? Isn't that why an attempt was made to get a handle on safety to start with? OK, so it doesn't work very wellso what... NOW ? Careful what you wish for. If it's not thought though, it'll be your worse nightmare, worse than this merely bad dream. Imagine what it would take to prevent a simple e-coli outbreak. Can you say invasive continual interruptions of operations and millions of inspectors? As it is, if 5 people get sick, thousands of tons of lettuce hits the landfill and whole meat packing companies recall themselves out of business...voluntarily, under mere threat of an FDA edict.No business, no employees. There's just no way to track were a deer may have gone or watch every piece of meat from the hoof to the shelf. It's not just China...it's here and everywhere. Always has been, always will be. Who is going to pay all those millions of inspectors? You? With the same incentive to corrupt as many as possible? Lead in paint? When was the last time anyone even thought about that here?? 50 years ago, no one here thought about it at all. Why would China, with a pollutant laden industrial structure that's similar to ours 50 years ago? Is it a wonder that no one thought to check? What happened when they did? MASSIVE recalls. Billions down a big black hole. You can bet China is thinking about it now. Checking themselves would have been a LOT cheaper, but, even knowing that... they didn't. You suppose that was on purpose ??? Think! If the police are to prevent almost any crime, you would have a cop looking over every shoulder 24/7/365. Every third person would have to be a cop...every 100th cop may be on the take. Are all the police forces corrupt because crimes are committed and there may be a few on the take? Who is going to pay all those cops? That would be you with an incentive to bribe them. NOW, who is the corrupt Devil? Be glad they don't have the power and enforcement capabilities you think they should. Be glad for the relative chaos, for that gives you ways around to take, should you even try. Security and freedom can't be used in the same sentence and still make any sense. With absolutes, everything IS it's own opposite. If the abortion issue was about absolutes like Right to Lifers insist, every unwanted kid born, automatically makes an anti-abortionist a Mommy or a Daddy...or a hypocrite. I haven't seen any lines forming to accept the responsibility which that absolute sets up. Get anyone to cover your ass for you, and it's their ass to push around. and you'll be paying them to push it. Think balance Balances are FOREVER teetering with the un-fore-seen. The consumer has ALL the power over every industry. That dollar determines what lives and what dies...YOUR dollar... how it's made and how it's spent. No choice doesn't have consequences and effects. Don't like it? Don't buy itthen deal with what happens next. No one wins a fight, everyone loses something. Do you want enemies to fight, or friends to help make a change? Spending time vilifying the very people you are trying to influence the spending and earnings of, probably won't work. Every attack creates its own resistance and self defense.It's a self defeating tactic. It's about *reason*, not about forcing people just like yourself in another pair of difficult shoes. So pay close attention to what's reasonable. Give them that better idea. You think you'll force them to have it for you? I think not.. That takes careful consideration...something that *simplistic solutions haters*, seem to be entirely lacking. It takes seeing the big virtually endlessly detailed picture of inevitable interaction. If that can't be understood, just assume it's there...because it is. Then assume that NO ONE can see OR understand it...because they can't...and that means you...and me. You create what you think and experience the averages. You get what you give as a reflection of your own projected image. Which way to you *really* want to tip the balances? You cannot not *choose* and you cannot not *do*. Best stop and
Re: CSCredit where due
On 10/26/2007, Jonathan B. Britten (jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp) wrote: For all the criticism of the FDA here, most of it deserved, they have to get credit for lifting the ban eventually. I hadn't known. Surely you don't think it was voluntary? There was much pressure, for a long time, to do so. It was interesting that there was a Newseek Cover Story only 4 days after l-tryptophan was banned singing the praises of prozac. There is a special place in hell (if you believe in that sort of thing) reserved for these monsters - and no, I don't mean every doctor or pharmacist, I mean the people who KNOW better and are directly responsible for both covering up the efficacy of natural products (like l-tryptophan) and pushing dangerous chemicals like prozac instead, purely for monetary gain. And no, I have nothing against free enterprise - only fraud, extortion, racketeering and murder. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCredit where due
The FDA is not a pack of Devils. They are, however, in a compromising funding position due to the way testing is structured. [who does it and who pays for it ] Makes for some weird and biased conclusions now and then. The FDA mission is protecting the public, however, they don't know much about what's not in their little bible. Therefore, if no great harm is in sight, they'll turn a blind eye to most activities...and add a bit of over cautionary propaganda as urged to by their odd funding bed buddies. Being someones reluctant friend does not make them everyone elses absolute enemy. Reading the alt health cautionary dog tails, it is purposefully chock full of legalese loopholes. For example: Not proven safe and effective does not mean Proven unsafe and ineffective It means they haven't tested it and can't test hardly anything because of how the testing funding is structured. The FDA doesn't have the funds to do much *in house* testing of anything and cannot possibly oversee the vast empires of food processors. All they have to work with is the acid testwhen people start getting burned, they kick over and start tracking things down. When the fire is put out, they go back to looking the other way. [ distractedly sucking big bucks butt for funds ] I've known doctors to prescribe turkey sandwiches [for the tryptophan] instead of prozac etc. Doctors are people with all their flaws and graces. But, they are paid to be right and sued when wrong, caught between a rock and a hard place. Going by the book is safer, so that's what they usually do. [ and blame the book if something goes wrong ] If writing something in the margins isn't likely to hurt, they'll sometimes do that as well. Neither can tell you what to do in private. You can kill yourself if you want to. But they'll hang you for murder if you succeed and try to hide those ropes away from the public as best they can afford to...till the public stops screaming for protection. If by chance you guess right and save yourself, you get a new life sentence...oh well. Just good for an official shrug. ode At 01:09 PM 10/26/2007 +0900, you wrote: For all the criticism of the FDA here, most of it deserved, they have to get credit for lifting the ban eventually. I hadn't known. Thanks for the information. On Thursday, Oct 25, 2007, at 01:47 Asia/Tokyo, faith gagne wrote: That ban was lifted in 2002. You should be able to get it at any health food store, or google for L-Tryptophan and you will find lots of on-line sources. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1093 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 5:38 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1093 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 5:38 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1093 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 5:38 PM
Re: CSCredit where due
Ode Coyote, on 10/26/2007 8:29 AM, said the following: The FDA is not a pack of Devils. For the most part, you are wrong - but not everyone who works there is in a position of power. Many people who have attempted to blow the whistle on all of the insider machinations that go on have been totally discredited and fired. They are, however, in a compromising funding position due to the way testing is structured. [who does it and who pays for it ] They are in far more compromising positions than that. Ever compared lists of former FDA heads and current Pharmaceutical Board Member lists? There are so many extraordinarily perverse conflicts of interest between the Pharmaceutical Companies and the ones who are SUPPOSED to be overseeing them (the FDA) there simply is no way to tell the two apart. Makes for some weird and biased conclusions now and then. Yeah, and results in the murder of a large number of people. The FDA mission is protecting the public, however, they don't know much about what's not in their little bible. Which is written by the Pharmaceutical Companies. Therefore, if no great harm is in sight, they'll turn a blind eye to most activities... They couldn't care less about what causes harm - they only care about protecting their masters (hint: it sure ain't you and me). -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCredit where due
At 02:03 PM 10/26/2007, you wrote: Ode Coyote, on 10/26/2007 8:29 AM, said the following: The FDA is not a pack of Devils. More than a Pack. A whole Battalion. The article in the Lancet summed it up nicely. It stated, The FDA is so corrupt that it is beyond repair. It should be Destroyed. Wayne -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSCredit where due
For all the criticism of the FDA here, most of it deserved, they have to get credit for lifting the ban eventually. I hadn't known. Thanks for the information. On Thursday, Oct 25, 2007, at 01:47 Asia/Tokyo, faith gagne wrote: That ban was lifted in 2002. You should be able to get it at any health food store, or google for L-Tryptophan and you will find lots of on-line sources. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
