CSanother matter ( Amp Meter )
includes the bleachers and parking lot. Hooking up an ammeter will help considerably. [and you'll see how varied the timing can get... stir and watch the current change dramatically] I suppose, being a half fast technician of sorts, when I first started making CS, I used an amp meter with every batch. I record the elapsed time into the batch, and the current flow. I made a one page entry into a small note book for each batch. After at time, I quit doing this as I developed an instinct that seems to work ok. From time to time, I still use the current meter. I know I should build a nice unit with a digital current meter, timers, ect. I suppose the reason I don't do this, I would much rather build a computer controlled system to monitor the current and log the results. I have a reasonably sophisticated data logging and control system that I use for many things. The main function is to feed plants based on sunlight and humidity. The design is very intelligent. I have seen this system feed plants, once per day, three times per day, and up to 12 times per day, fully automatically. It has a user input correction factor to allow for the growth stage of the plants and/or grower instinct. The system controls the heat in my office and logs deer movement in my back fields. I can write multiple data files, including DBF format at will. At one time this critter ran for two years and never crashed or locked up. I did all the programming in C. The program is over 10,000 lines. Presently, I have 8 analog input channels, 8 output channels, 4 temperature sensors, two humidity sensors, one sunlight sensor, and two channels of event counting. I have two analog EC sensors that are not on line at the present. All this works via RS-485 and will run from 3 different computers over a single pair of communication lines up to 4000 feet. Total system capability is near 20,000 points of data logging. After about 10,000 hours of playing with this system over 10 years, one gets bored with the high tech stuff and simply does it by the seat of the pants. I tell every one, there are two ways to make wine. One is by the book and the other is by the seat of the pants. Wayne -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSanother matter
Since the CS300 is a constant voltage device [not constant current], will 'run away' and has no way of regulating or referencing what it is making, PPM will be a total crap shoot. Timing a batch is completely useless unless the exact same water is used at the exact same temperature and timed to the second. Just a varience of a few microsiemens of initial water conductance can change the timing by an hour, more or less. Further, simple variations in water circulation will throw everything WAY off in an entirely unpredictable manner. The bigger the batch and the longer the generator is run, the further off it can get. A stirring device will help a lot but you'll still only get to within a great big ballpark of repeatability that includes the bleachers and parking lot. Hooking up an ammeter will help considerably. [and you'll see how varied the timing can get... stir and watch the current change dramatically] The CS300 works exactly like a pack of batteries. [batteries are also 'constant voltage' devices where current varies with the load or conductivity] $149 is a lot to pay for something that does exactly the same unpredictable thing as a pack of batteries. As bad as a meter is, yes..get a PWT, use it every 30 seconds towards the last part of the timing range and you might have a prayer. [and you'll graphically see everything the CS300 generator can't do] The TDS meter is probably repeatable but the courseness of the resolution will be somewhat of a factor. [Read it at a point where it can't quite decide what to say?] The CSPro system? WARNING!! THIS IS A VERY POWERFUL SYSTEM! FORGETTING TO STOP THE PROCESS CAN RESULT IN DAMAGING THE TANK AND ELECTRODES. ALLOWING THE ELECTRODES TO TOUCH WITH POWER APPLIED CAN DAMAGE THE ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS. 'CS PRO' ASSUMES NO LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES DUE TO NOT FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS OR FROM NEGLIGENT OPERATION! Apparently there is no current regulation in these either. If there was, you could short it out without harming anything. If current is not held constant, timing is useless as above. Also, I see the larger particle [larger is still not huge] yellowish CS is being touted as the very best. If it's yellow at a mere 10 PPM, it's being made with too high a current density [too fast/ too high a current for the electrode size] Not that a pale yellow CS is bad Installing a bubbler to stir will help considerably. Install an ammeter so you can tell where you are at any given time. If you open the box on the generator [It would be interesting to see what's in there], you'll probably see a wire that connects to all the electrodes on one side and another that connects to the other side. Snip one of those wires [before it branches] and hook up a digital ammeter in series. Digital multimeters that include an ammeter function can be had for under $10 I don't know what Pulse Phasic means. Perhaps the frequency and wave form of the AC line has been modified, so, the ammeter set on 'AC milliamps' [or amps?] will probably not be accurate as the RMS values will be different, but it will still be repeatable. ken At 09:25 PM 10/25/02 EDT, you wrote: thanks for some understanding on the tds/pwt meters but, once again the newbie needs some advice... i posted this on another cs board, but as of yet i've had no response, so i'd like to pose it here too: about 2 months ago we purchased the cs300 to produce our own cs, but soon found out that making 8oz. at a time was too time consuming, esp. when we were using large quantities ourselves, and giving it away to family and friends by the gallon (great reports by the way)... anyway, within a month i knew our needs far exceeded this small unit's output unless i was to spend every minute brewing cs... so, a month ago we purchased a cspro to make a gallon at a time... this has been wonderful, and out of my first 5 gallons, i've given 3 of them away... today i went to brew another gallon for ourselves (the 6th) and i noticed that the rods were not looking the same as with the first 5 gals lots more of the dark stuff, none of the 'smokey' silver in the water, etc... i realize the 'tds' meter doesn't register the true ppm, but i do use it as a comparison guage, and was getting a reading of 000 to 001 after 15 mins now 15 mins. would normally bring me a brew of 10 or better... anyway, here's my question(s): how many gallons should i be getting from .999 silver 12 guage wire? is the wire solid silver or overlay, and when the coating is gone, does the black flaky stuff appear? in cases such as this do i brew it longer, or do i just replace the silver rods? i was thinking i could supply everyone with tons of cs, with such a minimal cost (and i guess it still is, considering a gal. goes for about $75.-$100.)... this new generator is so great, but i did think i'd get more than 5-6 gallons from one set of silver rods... please give me some indications as to what 'normal' is where the lifespan of the
Re: CSanother matter ( Amp Meter )
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:49:43 -0500, Wayne Fugitt wrote: [snip] I tell every one, there are two ways to make wine. One is by the book and the other is by the seat of the pants. There is only one way to make consistently great wine... and anatomy plays no part in it. What works initially (time and current wise) to produce a fair product will give you an increasingly inferior product when the electrodes 'erode' to the point where current density increases past 10 uA/mmý or so. Those who plan to produce their own CS should pull their heads out of their seat of the pants and pay attention to the entire process. This is the only way to be consistent with so many variables involved. Wayne Regards, George Martin -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSanother matter
thanks a ton for all the input! deb
CSanother matter
thanks for some understanding on the tds/pwt meters but, once again the newbie needs some advice... i posted this on another cs board, but as of yet i've had no response, so i'd like to pose it here too: about 2 months ago we purchased the cs300 to produce our own cs, but soon found out that making 8oz. at a time was too time consuming, esp. when we were using large quantities ourselves, and giving it away to family and friends by the gallon (great reports by the way)... anyway, within a month i knew our needs far exceeded this small unit's output unless i was to spend every minute brewing cs... so, a month ago we purchased a cspro to make a gallon at a time... this has been wonderful, and out of my first 5 gallons, i've given 3 of them away... today i went to brew another gallon for ourselves (the 6th) and i noticed that the rods were not looking the same as with the first 5 gals lots more of the dark stuff, none of the 'smokey' silver in the water, etc... i realize the 'tds' meter doesn't register the true ppm, but i do use it as a comparison guage, and was getting a reading of 000 to 001 after 15 mins now 15 mins. would normally bring me a brew of 10 or better... anyway, here's my question(s): how many gallons should i be getting from .999 silver 12 guage wire? is the wire solid silver or overlay, and when the coating is gone, does the black flaky stuff appear? in cases such as this do i brew it longer, or do i just replace the silver rods? i was thinking i could supply everyone with tons of cs, with such a minimal cost (and i guess it still is, considering a gal. goes for about $75.-$100.)... this new generator is so great, but i did think i'd get more than 5-6 gallons from one set of silver rods... please give me some indications as to what 'normal' is where the lifespan of the silver rods are concerned, as i certainly don't want to be throwing them out if there is still life in them... but, i don't want to brewing stuff for 45 min. just to get the ppm up either... i know that i must certainly invest in a 'pwt' meter, and will do so as soon as i can come up with the funds... you're input is greatly appreciated as always... in advance, thanks! deb
RE: CSanother matter
Well, the patent is legit in as far as it has been granted by the patent office. I suggest you join this list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microelectricitygermkiller/ where your other questions may well be answered. Ivan. -Original Message- From: kaselo...@aol.com [mailto:kaselo...@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, 26 October 2002 2:26 p.m. To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSanother matter thanks for some understanding on the tds/pwt meters but, once again the newbie needs some advice... i posted this on another cs board, but as of yet i've had no response, so i'd like to pose it here too: about 2 months ago we purchased the cs300 to produce our own cs, but soon found out that making 8oz. at a time was too time consuming, esp. when we were using large quantities ourselves, and giving it away to family and friends by the gallon (great reports by the way)... anyway, within a month i knew our needs far exceeded this small unit's output unless i was to spend every minute brewing cs... so, a month ago we purchased a cspro to make a gallon at a time... this has been wonderful, and out of my first 5 gallons, i've given 3 of them away... today i went to brew another gallon for ourselves (the 6th) and i noticed that the rods were not looking the same as with the first 5 gals lots more of the dark stuff, none of the 'smokey' silver in the water, etc... i realize the 'tds' meter doesn't register the true ppm, but i do use it as a comparison guage, and was getting a reading of 000 to 001 after 15 mins now 15 mins. would normally bring me a brew of 10 or better... anyway, here's my question(s): how many gallons should i be getting from .999 silver 12 guage wire? is the wire solid silver or overlay, and when the coating is gone, does the black flaky stuff appear? in cases such as this do i brew it longer, or do i just replace the silver rods? i was thinking i could supply everyone with tons of cs, with such a minimal cost (and i guess it still is, considering a gal. goes for about $75.-$100.)... this new generator is so great, but i did think i'd get more than 5-6 gallons from one set of silver rods... please give me some indications as to what 'normal' is where the lifespan of the silver rods are concerned, as i certainly don't want to be throwing them out if there is still life in them... but, i don't want to brewing stuff for 45 min. just to get the ppm up either... i know that i must certainly invest in a 'pwt' meter, and will do so as soon as i can come up with the funds... you're input is greatly appreciated as always... in advance, thanks! deb -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
