Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood
This message is broken into 2 parts due to the 20 K limit of this list. Mike Monett wrote: Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:35:14 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79705.html I don't favor one over the other. I think the best is a mix of the two. Particles don't react with the HCl in the stomach and can thus pass directly into the blood steam. What is your definition of a particle? The only one I know in cs is silver hydroxide: Ag(+) + OH(-) -- AgOH (Actually silver hydroxide is a doublet of that) No silver hydroxide would be an ionic form of silver when dissolved. Any that exceeds the limit of solubility is a silver hydroxide precipitate, and not being discussed. What most people call ionic silver is a combination of silver hydroxide and silver oxide in solution. When you evaporate it, then the silver hydroxide converts to silver oxide. The reason for this is that since silver oxide and silver hydroxide are continually forming from each other when in solution, when silver oxide and water is formed, the water evaporates, leaving only the silver oxide behind with no water to reform silver hydroxide again. A silver particle is a colloidal suspension of a clump of silver atoms of 2 or more atoms that is sufficiently small and with sufficient zeta to stay in colloidal form. Analyze the meaning of the words, silver particle, that means a particle of silver. So typical EIS is about 90% silver hydroxide/silver oxide, and about 10% colloidal silver particles. The silver particles are easy to determine since they absorb light depending on their size, so the color that you see is the complement of the absorbed color. The color they absorb vs size is available in scientific literature, and I have posted the graphs here previously, and the colors one gets as the particles grow conform quite well to theory and the curves. I have not only researched the scientific literature on this, but have run photospectrometer absorption graphs of EIS and confirmed that the absorption wavelength drops with particle size exactly as the literature claims it does. Frank Key's Dr. Maass claims silver hydroxide is soluble to 13.3 ppm in his paper, Solubility Products Involving Silver Compounds. The pdf file is on Frank's web page http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/papers.html but the site seems to be down at the moment so I can't give the exact url. Anyway, his calculation is wrong. That is correct, the best estimate is that it is soluble to about 13 ppm. However so is the solubility of silver oxide, and since both are in the solution, the total solubility of the ionic portion of EIS can approach 27 ppm for solutions with a pH of around 7. Silver hydroxide is insoluble, as shown in my proof at http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79117.html and http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78851.html I have seen no such proof. Everything I can find indicates that silver hydroxide has some solubility, from a low of 13 to about 100 ppm. It has a KNOWN solubility product of about 7.7, that makes it impossible to be insoluble, but is instead sparingly soluble, the math shows it to be soluble to about 13 ppm. If it was not soluble then there could not be ionic silver since ionic silver is a combination of silver oxide and silver hydroxide. If either were insoluble, then all would convert to the insoluble form and precipitate out, making it impossible to have ionic silver. By claiming that silver hydroxide is insoluble, you are also claiming that there is no such thing as ionic silver, which I am sure is not your intention. You did post something about taking an electrode that had silver powder on it that was black, and rubbing it and it became silver colored as expected, and I explained that phenomena to you some time back, that silver is very malleable, and the powder forms larger particles that are then silver colored. Silver hydroxide spontaneously forms silver oxide when it dries out, and silver oxide is not reduced by simply rubbing it. Also silver oxide or hydroxide cannot possibly plate out on an electrode, the electric field moves the silver ions toward the cathode, where they plate out as black silver powder, and moves the OH- toward the anode, where oxygen can be evolved as if forms oxygen and water. They travel in opposite directions, and thus cannot plate out as a compound (one that is sparingly soluble as well). Now on one electrode we should get black silver powder, and on the other electrode we have O atoms appearing. O (not O2) is extremely active, and can react with the silver electrode producing silver oxide Ag2O. Initially this will dissolve off into the water increasing the ionic portion of the EIS. However as one approaches the solubility limit of silver oxide in water, it can and will start forming a coating on the electrode (also any
CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood
Continued from previous message. Silver nitrate causes Argyria - where are the particles? Huh, they form in the skin. Silver nitrate becomes silver chloride in the stomach, it is then absorbed into the blood stream where it is exposed to chemicals that make it want to plate out. But there is nothing to plate out on. Some will end up in the skin where it is exposed to light, and photoreduced to silver atoms. Once some silver particles (atoms) are produced in the skin, the silver compound in the blood immediately plates out on them, and they grow very rapidly until they get stuck in the skin causing argyria. I have explained this many times. The science is extremely well known and researched by Eastman Kodak. Franks tests that show no silver compounds in the blood after taking EIS also support this. Please for heavens sake, get a good book on the photographic process. It is all explained there. I am amazed that someone can continually claim that the photographic process does not occur, when people have been using it successfully for over 100 years. It is possible to make cs with very low silver hydroxide content. Yes, if you make very low ppm of EIS, or somehow make the particle content much larger than the typical 10%. Nobody has got Argyria from ionic cs, but plenty have from MSP and other products. See Jason's articles on Argyria: http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria-cases.html http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria.html Yes, that supports my theory. Colloidal silver is a prophylactic to argyria, that means that it prevents it. Ionic silver improves healing due to it's ability to make injured cells de-differentiate. I agree completely. I have had some near-miraculous healing of second degree burns by placing ordinary bandages over the open wounds and keeping them soaked with 20uS cs. A week or two later, the layers of skin are replaced with fresh skin and you cannot tell where the damage occurred. There is no scar whatsoever. That ionic forms of silver enhance healing has been very well documented. I am simply interested in know exactly how all this works, and I really don't care if it is the ions or particles that do certain things, since any good EIS will have both. I don't believe this is true. As mentioned above, it is possible to make high ionic cs with very low silver hydroxide content. No, it is not. Silver hydroxide has about 13 ppm of solubility as does silver oxide. Between the two of them it sets an upper level of ionic concentration of about 26 to 27 ppm, which is right where things really begin falling apart. What are you considering high ionic content? The silver hydroxide particles give cs the yellow tint. It is desirable from a cosmetic point of view to minimize it. This means finding ways to minimize the production of silver hydroxide. No, silver hydroxide when dissolved in water is totally clear and colorless. The yellow tint is from the particles, this has been proven time and again, it is documented in scientific literature dating back decades. I have run photospectrographic samples of EIS and find that they obey the published absorption curves exactly. If you freeze EIS, then thaw it, the color disappears, as the particulate portion is precipitated out, but the ionic portion, IE the silver hydroxide and silver oxide is not. If you add salt to EIS, it will still keep the same yellow color since salt does not react with the particles, and silver chloride is colorless which is formed from the silver oxide and silver hydroxide when dissolved, but forms a white precipitate when it exceeds it's very limited solubility. All this is known and proven. I believe that in the body both ions and particles end up being particles in the end, so it does not really matter what you start with. The pople who make MSP products claim you need extremely large concentrations in the bloodstream - several thousand ppm for invive, and perhaps 40,000 ppm for tetrasilver. You do for MSP, it is trapped in a protein. I don't know anything about tetrasilver, up until recently I thought it was insoluble. Tetrasilver is a compound of silver, so not relevent anyway to how silver particles work. If particles have any biological effect, why do these products have such high silver concentration? Because when trapped in a protein they lose activity. I am surprised they work at all. Tetarsilver is a compound, and not relevent to particles at all. I believe the only thing in cs that has any effect is the ions. The silver hydroxide particles are insoluble, inert, and have no biological activity. If it were insoluble, then there could be no such thing as ionic silver. We all know it exists. And if you say that the particle portion of EIS is ineffective, and now you are saying that the ionic portion is
Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood
Mike Monett wrote: Marshall, Can you tell me again the reason you dropped your excellent analysis on the solubility of silver chloride at: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m77225.html The references you provide are first-rate. Especially the photo in http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/demonstrations/Gen_Chem_Pages/15precippage/silverchloridedissolvesinxs.htm I am at a loss at to why you think I dropped the analysis (do you mean no long think it is correct). I still stand behind that analysis. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood
Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:25:39 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79696.html I am at a loss at to why you think I dropped the analysis (do you mean no long think it is correct). I still stand behind that analysis. Marshall Thanks, Marshall. That is very good. I guess I got the wrong impression from your reply to Frank Key and from your particle theory postings. Sometimes there seems to be two different Marshall Dudley's posting to the list. One in favor of ions, the other in favor of particles. However, I will soon post results of a new experiment that goes a long way to explain how cs enters the body. But I needed to verify your analysis still held. Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood
Mike Monett wrote: Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:25:39 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79696.html I am at a loss at to why you think I dropped the analysis (do you mean no long think it is correct). I still stand behind that analysis. Marshall Thanks, Marshall. That is very good. I guess I got the wrong impression from your reply to Frank Key and from your particle theory postings. Sometimes there seems to be two different Marshall Dudley's posting to the list. One in favor of ions, the other in favor of particles. I don't favor one over the other. I think the best is a mix of the two. Particles don't react with the HCl in the stomach and can thus pass directly into the blood steam. Ions become silver chloride in the stomach, and thus are metered into the blood stream at a slower rate, but can be inproved by mixing with an electrolyte solution before taking. Ionic silver alone can cause argyria, but when there are particles present they act as a prophylatic and prevent argyria. Ionic silver improves healing due to it's ability to make injured cells de-differentiate. I am simply interested in know exactly how all this works, and I really don't care if it is the ions or particles that do certain things, since any good EIS will have both. I believe that in the body both ions and particles end up being particles in the end, so it does not really matter what you start with. However, I will soon post results of a new experiment that goes a long way to explain how cs enters the body. But I needed to verify your analysis still held. Yeh, I would be very interested in seeing it. Marshall Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood
Re: CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:35:14 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79705.html I don't favor one over the other. I think the best is a mix of the two. Particles don't react with the HCl in the stomach and can thus pass directly into the blood steam. What is your definition of a particle? The only one I know in cs is silver hydroxide: Ag(+) + OH(-) -- AgOH Frank Key's Dr. Maass claims silver hydroxide is soluble to 13.3 ppm in his paper, Solubility Products Involving Silver Compounds. The pdf file is on Frank's web page http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/papers.html but the site seems to be down at the moment so I can't give the exact url. Anyway, his calculation is wrong. Silver hydroxide is insoluble, as shown in my proof at http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79117.html and http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78851.html Any silver ions that may plate out on the cathode at very low current density are captured by Van der Waals forces, so they are not likely to go back into solution. Instead, they make a sludge. I haven't seen any balanced equations or credible explanations to show how other particles are produced. Ions become silver chloride in the stomach, and thus are metered into the blood stream at a slower rate, but can be inproved by mixing with an electrolyte solution before taking. I find sublingual absorption to be most effective. However, a simple test proves the silver ions combine with salt in the saliva to produce AgCl. This is why I was so interested to see your silver chloride solubility post. Ionic silver alone can cause Argyria, but when there are particles present they act as a prophylatic and prevent Argyria. I don't think so. Do you have any balanced equations to show this? Silver nitrate causes Argyria - where are the particles? It is possible to make cs with very low silver hydroxide content. Nobody has got Argyria from ionic cs, but plenty have from MSP and other products. See Jason's articles on Argyria: http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria-cases.html http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria.html Ionic silver improves healing due to it's ability to make injured cells de-differentiate. I agree completely. I have had some near-miraculous healing of second degree burns by placing ordinary bandages over the open wounds and keeping them soaked with 20uS cs. A week or two later, the layers of skin are replaced with fresh skin and you cannot tell where the damage occurred. There is no scar whatsoever. I am simply interested in know exactly how all this works, and I really don't care if it is the ions or particles that do certain things, since any good EIS will have both. I don't believe this is true. As mentioned above, it is possible to make high ionic cs with very low silver hydroxide content. The silver hydroxide particles give cs the yellow tint. It is desirable from a cosmetic point of view to minimize it. This means finding ways to minimize the production of silver hydroxide. I believe that in the body both ions and particles end up being particles in the end, so it does not really matter what you start with. The pople who make MSP products claim you need extremely large concentrations in the bloodstream - several thousand ppm for invive, and perhaps 40,000 ppm for tetrasilver. If particles have any biological effect, why do these products have such high silver concentration? I believe the only thing in cs that has any effect is the ions. The silver hydroxide particles are insoluble, inert, and have no biological activity. Steve Quinto's time/kill analysis of Mesosilver shows that the ions kill quickly, but the chlorides and particles are inert in comparison to the ions. http://tinyurl.com/3qb4v Silverlon bandages claim the body fluids convert elemental silver into ions, but you have to wet the bandage with dw first. The photos on their web site clearly show healing does take place. But it would seem to be much more effective if plain bandages were soaked in high ionic cs and placed on the wounds. Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS Marshall, Tell me again about 0.9 ppm for blood
Marshall, Can you tell me again the reason you dropped your excellent analysis on the solubility of silver chloride at: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m77225.html The references you provide are first-rate. Especially the photo in http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/demonstrations/Gen_Chem_Pages/15precippage/silverchloridedissolvesinxs.htm In your post, you state: Your expert needs to go back to school. That equation is valid only for very low concentrations of Cl ions. For the blood, which is over 0.1 M it is not valid at all. Silver chloride at medium and higher concentrations of Cl ions forms complexes (AgCl2, AgCl3, AgCl4 etc.), which are very soluble. The correct equation for this is: 2X10^-10/[Cl] + 6.3X10^-7 + 3.4X10^-3[Cl] where the [Cl] is the chlorine concentration in Moles, including the dissolved AgCl. This works out to very close to 0.9 ppm for blood (.145 Mole), which is coincidently almost exactly the same as it is in pure water. With higher concentrations of the chloride ion it is even higher. I have posted a graph from Ref #2 that shows this to a previous message to this newsgroup. For the concentrations we are concerned with, the left hand side A would be the applicable graph. Your explanation shows excellent theoretical and practical reasons for the increased solubility of silver ions in the blood. I haven't seen a good explanation from Frank to explain why it isn't valid. He has not explained why the solution clears up in the photo: http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/demonstrations/Images/15precip/agcldissovesinxs.jpg You explanation makes good sense. It is very difficult to get a silver ion concentration close to 0.9ppm by ingestion. For example, it would require a complete absorption of 10 oz of 15uS cs. (Mercury equations provided at the end.) I can find no data to indicate the efficiency of absorption of silver ions, but perhaps a value of 5 to 10% might be appropriate. This means 100 to 200 oz of 15uS cs could be required to reach the solubility limit. That is a LOT of cs! You explanation is also consistent with the work I have done to increase the silver ion concentration in cs. Each time I figure out how to make stronger cs, it solves problems that the previous cs could not solve. So it might be good to explore this area some more. Thanks, Mike Monett ; Blood Volume Calculations ; Roger Schafly's Mercury is available at ; http://www.mindspring.com/~schlafly/eureka.htm ; http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/.html ; http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/mrcry209.zip ; Conversion Factors Bloodppb = 1e3 * Milligrams / BloodVol Litres = MilliLitres / 1000 ; convert milliLitre to Litre Milligrams = Grams * 1000 ; convert grams to milligrams MilliLitres = 29.57 * Ounces ; convert ounces to milliliters uS = Milligrams / Litres; 1 uS is 1 milligram per litre ; Parameters Bloodppb = 900; Marshall's solubility equation BloodVol = 5 ; typical blood volume in litres Ounces = 10 ; amount of cs ; Solution Bloodppb= 900.00 BloodVol= 5. Grams = 0.0045 Litres = 0.2957 Milligrams = 4.5000 MilliLitres = 295.70 Ounces = 10.000 uS = 15.218 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRE: Shock me again baby
Mike: Got two copies of Bill's post; one with the CS on subject line and one without. This whole thing gets complicated don't it??? Dean -Original Message- From: Tai-Pan [mailto:l...@fbtc.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 3:31 PM To: woodw...@educelec.com Cc: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Shock me again baby Hi Dean and list, Be careful now,we like you around. Had a problem once at Naval Station in Memphis Tenn. Built a new Technical training complex for Aviation Electronics schools.First class of students were getting shocked all over the place. Seems the wiring all over the place was wrong. We staff people said we could fix it right,but they forced the contractors to do it. They couldn`t fix it after three weeks. So the local SeaBee Reserve Unit was activated to do it. After a week they did ask us to help, week later all was well.:-) Seems the main power coming down the road was a old WW2 four phase system which was then ran into a new three phase Delta-Y system thru a polygon tranformer substation. We staff did all the phasing and wire IDing and the CB`s did the wiring. Did the whole complex in one week and had classes going again. Seems I have digressed here,back to Deans house.I will tell you what I`ve done in the past and you can do it if you want to. Take the cover off of you power panel and connect a long wire (so it will reach where ever you want it to) to the neutral buss and get the end of it into your kitchen. This wire is your house ground. Measure from it to your sink,should be zero volts(have seen hot sinks because of disposal problems). Next measure from the house ground wire (the one you brought to the kitchen)to your wall receptical to the round ground hole, should be zero volts. Next measure to the longer of the two slots, (its a system ground) should be zero volts. Next measure to the shorter of the two slots. Should be 115 to 120 volts. If all of this is good, problem is not the house wiring. Read from short slot to sink,should read line volts(115 to 120). Read long slot to sink, should be zero. Now plug in the distiller, leave top off (don`t plug it in),don`t push in the power switch (don`t want it on yet).Read from the neutral wire you brought into the kitchen to the pot,should be zero volts (maybe a few millivolts with a digital meter).If its not zero volts there is a problem in the distiller. The distiller has a nut on the bottom (just one nut).UNPLUG the distiller and remove the nut. This will let you take it apart. Check for any water inside the wiring. If its wet dry it with a hair drier. Make sure its dry where the heater wires are. After its dry and no wires are pinched put it back together. TEST from the neutral wire to the pot again (has to be plugged in). If its not zero volts,take it in for service. Hope this helps some. :-) Bless you Bob Lee -- oozing on the muggy shore of the gulf coast l...@fbtc.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSShock me again baby
Hi Dean and list, Be careful now,we like you around. Had a problem once at Naval Station in Memphis Tenn. Built a new Technical training complex for Aviation Electronics schools.First class of students were getting shocked all over the place. Seems the wiring all over the place was wrong. We staff people said we could fix it right,but they forced the contractors to do it. They couldn`t fix it after three weeks. So the local SeaBee Reserve Unit was activated to do it. After a week they did ask us to help, week later all was well.:-) Seems the main power coming down the road was a old WW2 four phase system which was then ran into a new three phase Delta-Y system thru a polygon tranformer substation. We staff did all the phasing and wire IDing and the CB`s did the wiring. Did the whole complex in one week and had classes going again. Seems I have digressed here,back to Deans house.I will tell you what I`ve done in the past and you can do it if you want to. Take the cover off of you power panel and connect a long wire (so it will reach where ever you want it to) to the neutral buss and get the end of it into your kitchen. This wire is your house ground. Measure from it to your sink,should be zero volts(have seen hot sinks because of disposal problems). Next measure from the house ground wire (the one you brought to the kitchen)to your wall receptical to the round ground hole, should be zero volts. Next measure to the longer of the two slots, (its a system ground) should be zero volts. Next measure to the shorter of the two slots. Should be 115 to 120 volts. If all of this is good, problem is not the house wiring. Read from short slot to sink,should read line volts(115 to 120). Read long slot to sink, should be zero. Now plug in the distiller, leave top off (don`t plug it in),don`t push in the power switch (don`t want it on yet).Read from the neutral wire you brought into the kitchen to the pot,should be zero volts (maybe a few millivolts with a digital meter).If its not zero volts there is a problem in the distiller. The distiller has a nut on the bottom (just one nut).UNPLUG the distiller and remove the nut. This will let you take it apart. Check for any water inside the wiring. If its wet dry it with a hair drier. Make sure its dry where the heater wires are. After its dry and no wires are pinched put it back together. TEST from the neutral wire to the pot again (has to be plugged in). If its not zero volts,take it in for service. Hope this helps some. :-) Bless you Bob Lee -- oozing on the muggy shore of the gulf coast l...@fbtc.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: ME AGAIN
Mike, For me, it is a good level handful of vitamins Big silly smile Darn thing is that I just keep finding good things to add, but when I consider how much improved my health is with the vitamins, it is worth it. I sound a bit like that old shaver commercialI liked the vitamins so well, I bought the store!!! Take care. Vern -Original Message- From: M. G. Devour mdev...@mail.id.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 9:59 AM Subject: Re: ME AGAIN I'll be the first to admit that was the first place I ever heard about this concept. But I've seen other items from government and medical nutrition sources as well. I also can't deny that I feel a *lot* better when taking a good vitamin and mineral supplement. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: ME AGAIN
On 20 May 98 at 0:39, Vern wrote: ... the whole idea was that chemical application is somehow robbing the soil of things that would be replenished with natural fertilizers and such. The trace minerals are being taken up by the plants, harvested, and eaten. But guess what? The fertilizers being used to keep the soil producing more plants every season do not contain trace minerals. The economics of mass agriculture dictate that fertilizers contain *only* the minimum that the plants need. So the trace minerals are exhausted from the soil and never replaced. Of course, a whole bunch of this literature is pushed by those who are selling mineral supplements, so I really don't know what to think. I'll be the first to admit that was the first place I ever heard about this concept. But I've seen other items from government and medical nutrition sources as well. I also can't deny that I feel a *lot* better when taking a good vitamin and mineral supplement. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: ME AGAIN
Darryl, I have not seen anything that suggests plants are without nutrient, but I have read several papers that suggest that various levels of nutrients are on the decrease. Off the top of my head, I remember reading that selenium levels in cantaloupe (maybe?!) was about 1/50th that of those tested 40 or so years ago. I do not know how accurate the numbers are, but the whole idea was that chemical application is somehow robbing the soil of things that would be replenished with natural fertilizers and such. Of course, a whole bunch of this literature is pushed by those who are selling mineral supplements, so I really don't know what to think. I like the idea of drinking distilled water, and in fact got an almost new distiller at auction for 5 bucks!! I would however, like to see some kind of research before I start drinking just distilled water. I think I'll start with that book by Dr. Banik if I can find it. Thanks for the info. Vern -Original Message- From: Darryl vital.ea...@hunterlink.net.au To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, May 17, 1998 2:51 PM Subject: Fw: ME AGAIN We don't eat the soil we eat the plants, I have seen nothing that suggests yet that plants are somehow without nutrient ?? In any case where are barren soils producing plants? Or conversely what is wrong with adding some organic nutrients say worm casts made from your kitchen scraps to your soil if you are growing your own, or only buying certified organic produce. Get you nutrients from the plants in their organic form, and dump the toxins your liver rejects into a water such as pure water [ ie distilled ] able to uptake and rid your body of the rejected stuff. Darryyll -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: Fw: ME AGAIN
On 18 May 98 at 6:41, Darryl wrote: Most of what's in the world is soluble in water at least to some extent. grin If you drink some distilled water, osmosis will take place until some equilibrium is reached between what's going on in your tissues and the water you've added to your system. Mike ...are you suggesting that distilled water will dissolve your body??? The analogy I'm thinking of treats the whole body as a semi-permeable membrane, with inter- and intracellular fluids on one side, and the gut on the other. As you pour in fresh water the osmotic pressure of every substance in the body will drive *some* of each into the volume of the new water, even as some of the water comes in through the membrane, until a balance is reached. Every membrane in the body is there solely to control transport of water, electrolytes, and other substances in and out of the cells or tissues. As such, there's probably not a milligram of distilled water to be found in your body, as all the fluid present is full of chemicals of one sort or another. grin Some minerals from your body will end up dissolved in the additional water. Not really the water passes through your bowels not your body, it is blood that flows through your body not water, if you want to dump unwanted toxins from your body you need a blotting paper water [ such as distilled ] Don't think of the body as static. When you take in fluid, a *process* begins which ends with it being a part of the blood and intracellular fluids. The whole bowel lining serves in part to regulate *transport* of water to maintain proper hydration. The blotting paper analogy is exactly what I'm thinking about. If there is a substance in your body that you want to get rid of you have to give it a place to go where there is less of it. But now consider a *valuable* substance, such as a particular trace mineral, and being surrounded by an environment with no measurable amounts of it. Over time the body will lose it, to the extent that the ability of the membranes to keep it is not perfect. In essence you'll slowly leach it out. We're probably arguing angels on the head of a pin. My suggested mechanism of distilled water causing loss of minerals depends entirely upon a severe *lack* of those minerals in the diet. So all I'm talking about, really, is a possible mechanism for a nutrient deficiency to have its effect. ... why is the soil not barren and the flowers dead, and the plants not flourishing, and the animals dying, if distilled water is something so dangerous as to be avoided? Once again, you'll not find a milligram of distilled water in them, as it is all working at transporting the minerals the plants need from the soil to the cells! *IF* you have a diet strongly deficient in a given trace mineral ... After time your body would become as barren as the soil in which your food is grown. We don't eat the soil we eat the plants, I have seen nothing that suggests yet that plants are somehow without nutrient ?? In any case where are barren soils producing plants? Isn't this is a basic premise of nutritional supplementation? The soil on which we've been growing our crops and feeds for generations has been depleted of *many* trace minerals. Our chemical fertilizers only replace those absolutely necessary for the plant to grow leaves and stems and fruit. So you have a perfectly healthy looking plant that has *none* of the extras that make it a healthy source of nutrients for us. And many trace minerals have virtually disappeared from the mainstream diet as a result. As you can see I believe in distilled water ...25 years of drinking it, cooking with it, and now making C/S with it, and 25 years of good health, have lead me to one conclusion the myths about the negative aspects of distilled water, are nothing more than myths, and every time you examine these myths with an open mind they are easily demolished. I'd say it's reasonable to expect the body to be able to handle pure water just fine in general. If most of your diet comes from local sources, drinking the ground water *might* give you access to some of the minerals you'd otherwise get from your food. But that's nowhere near as good as getting your minerals from plants grown on *undepleted* soils. As Jim says, if you're in a position to be hurt by drinking distilled water, you'd be unhealthy anyway. It's been an interesting debate, which I don't think either of us needs to worry about winning. Thanks, Daryll. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the
Re: ME AGAIN
Thank you kindly Dean...also Cindy -Original Message- From: Dean Woodward woodw...@educelec.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Monday, 18 May 1998 13:21 Subject: RE: ME AGAIN Do you know what Daryyll? You made a bunch of good points, and you made it without insulting anyone. Let's respect one another as God's creatures who share this earth. I am interested enough to pursue this question from a scientific point of view. It is really a simple question. Is pure water (i.e. distilled water) bad for you or good for you. If science can't answer that, we're indeed in bad shape. God Bless Dean -Original Message- From: Darryl [mailto:vital.ea...@hunterlink.net.au] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 1998 3:42 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Fw: ME AGAIN -- I can at least speculate a mechanism where distilled water might not be the best thing going under certain circumstances. Most of what's in the world is soluble in water at least to some extent. grin If you drink some distilled water, osmosis will take place until some equilibrium is reached between what's going on in your tissues and the water you've added to your system. Mike ...are you suggesting that distilled water will dissolve your body??? Some minerals from your body will end up dissolved in the additional water. Not really the water passes through your bowels not your body, it is blood that flows through your body not water, if you want to dump unwanted toxins from your body you need a blotting paper water [ such as distilled ] , not an overloaded tap water, mineral water, spring water, etc If you want good water to make your blood from, why have the water laced with all the intentionally, and accidentally added chemicals found in tap water? Also what do you mean by additional water ? Try thinking of tap water as a substance with additional unwanted contaminants, not pure [distilled water ] as additional water Or worse the overloaded minerals of dreaded mineral water [ better known as fossil water ]. God [ Nature which ever ] gave us cleaned distilled rain water for us to drink, he/her [ nature ! ] provides this for the plants we eat, the lawn we grow, the flowers we plant, why is the soil not barren and the flowers dead, and the plants not flourishing, and the animals dying, if distilled water is something so dangerous as to be avoided? Did you ever notice how well your garden, farm, lawn, livestock improved after good old rain [ distilled water ] falls did you ever try to get the same result with bore water full of fossil minerals? you will probably kill the plants, lawn etc. Did you never notice that farmers pray for rain, not a tap? Good old distilled water !!! If your body needs calcium for example, get it from milk, drinking fossil water from an underground aquifer is the wrong type of calcium. While these myths abound about distilled water people are denied the one thing that is so simple to do to regain your health drink PURE water. There are no bugs in distilled water because there is no nutrient for them to live on! A small home distiller is all you need for all your drinking water, cooking water, and colloidal silver making, keep the lid on after you make distilled water, and the pH will be just right, almost all modern home distillers are not closed systems, and are designed to re oxygenate the distilled water as they make it. *IF* you have a diet strongly deficient in a given trace mineral, wouldn't it gradually be diluted and depleted from your tissues to some fairly low level? After time your body would become as barren as the soil in which your food is grown. We don't eat the soil we eat the plants, I have seen nothing that suggests yet that plants are somehow without nutrient ?? In any case where are barren soils producing plants? Or conversely what is wrong with adding some organic nutrients say worm casts made from your kitchen scraps to your soil if you are growing your own, or only buying certified organic produce. Get you nutrients from the plants in their organic form, and dump the toxins your liver rejects into a water such as pure water [ ie distilled ] able to uptake and rid your body of the rejected stuff. This assumes, of course, that your tap water normally contains enough of the same trace mineral to help the body obtain and retain it. Your body can not uptake inorganic minerals from tap water, but it can be harmed by the many chemicals in tap water, so better not assume. This is simple-minded speculation on my part. I don't have a good gut feeling one way or another on whether distilled water is bad/good for you, or under which circumstances it's even important. I think we've seen some good comments on both sides of the issue. As you can see I believe in distilled water ...25 years of drinking it, cooking with it, and now making C/S with it, and 25 years of good health, have lead me to one conclusion
Fw: ME AGAIN
-- I can at least speculate a mechanism where distilled water might not be the best thing going under certain circumstances. Most of what's in the world is soluble in water at least to some extent. grin If you drink some distilled water, osmosis will take place until some equilibrium is reached between what's going on in your tissues and the water you've added to your system. Mike ...are you suggesting that distilled water will dissolve your body??? Some minerals from your body will end up dissolved in the additional water. Not really the water passes through your bowels not your body, it is blood that flows through your body not water, if you want to dump unwanted toxins from your body you need a blotting paper water [ such as distilled ] , not an overloaded tap water, mineral water, spring water, etc If you want good water to make your blood from, why have the water laced with all the intentionally, and accidentally added chemicals found in tap water? Also what do you mean by additional water ? Try thinking of tap water as a substance with additional unwanted contaminants, not pure [distilled water ] as additional water Or worse the overloaded minerals of dreaded mineral water [ better known as fossil water ]. God [ Nature which ever ] gave us cleaned distilled rain water for us to drink, he/her [ nature ! ] provides this for the plants we eat, the lawn we grow, the flowers we plant, why is the soil not barren and the flowers dead, and the plants not flourishing, and the animals dying, if distilled water is something so dangerous as to be avoided? Did you ever notice how well your garden, farm, lawn, livestock improved after good old rain [ distilled water ] falls did you ever try to get the same result with bore water full of fossil minerals? you will probably kill the plants, lawn etc. Did you never notice that farmers pray for rain, not a tap? Good old distilled water !!! If your body needs calcium for example, get it from milk, drinking fossil water from an underground aquifer is the wrong type of calcium. While these myths abound about distilled water people are denied the one thing that is so simple to do to regain your health drink PURE water. There are no bugs in distilled water because there is no nutrient for them to live on! A small home distiller is all you need for all your drinking water, cooking water, and colloidal silver making, keep the lid on after you make distilled water, and the pH will be just right, almost all modern home distillers are not closed systems, and are designed to re oxygenate the distilled water as they make it. *IF* you have a diet strongly deficient in a given trace mineral, wouldn't it gradually be diluted and depleted from your tissues to some fairly low level? After time your body would become as barren as the soil in which your food is grown. We don't eat the soil we eat the plants, I have seen nothing that suggests yet that plants are somehow without nutrient ?? In any case where are barren soils producing plants? Or conversely what is wrong with adding some organic nutrients say worm casts made from your kitchen scraps to your soil if you are growing your own, or only buying certified organic produce. Get you nutrients from the plants in their organic form, and dump the toxins your liver rejects into a water such as pure water [ ie distilled ] able to uptake and rid your body of the rejected stuff. This assumes, of course, that your tap water normally contains enough of the same trace mineral to help the body obtain and retain it. Your body can not uptake inorganic minerals from tap water, but it can be harmed by the many chemicals in tap water, so better not assume. This is simple-minded speculation on my part. I don't have a good gut feeling one way or another on whether distilled water is bad/good for you, or under which circumstances it's even important. I think we've seen some good comments on both sides of the issue. As you can see I believe in distilled water ...25 years of drinking it, cooking with it, and now making C/S with it, and 25 years of good health, have lead me to one conclusion the myths about the negative aspects of distilled water, are nothing more than myths, and every time you examine these myths with an open mind they are easily demolished. Darryyll -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
