Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
Rachel Smithies wrote: Hello, I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions... Please can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing agyria problems? Many thanks Rachel Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free. Try it Now! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ Most silver solutions, what we call EIS, are a combination of both ionic silver and colloidal silver. The colloidal part is made up of small silver particles of a few nanometers each held into suspension by browning movement and charge. The ionic part is made up of ionized silver atoms, which are linked to either oxygen or the oh radical in the water. Pure ionic silver will cause argyria, colloidal portion is believe by me to prevent argyria, thus a combination of the two is generally safe was well. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
At 04:09 PM 5/3/2009 +, you wrote: Hello, I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions... Please can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and ionic silver? Colloidal suspension: Particles small enough to stay suspended in water. Ionic solution: One atom plus or minus an electron, dissolved in water. Both are safe to ingest. Neither will cause Argyria unless enough silver is RETAINED in the body. Either can cause Agyria..except..ionic silver has a maximum concentration before it becomes colloidal when the solubility limits of the water are exceeded...unless the silver is in a more highly soluble compound such as Silver Citrate..also considered an ionic solution. Having an abnormal metals elimination system is almost a requirement for Smurfdom at virtually any exposure level and duration. Agyria is a **combination** of problems that include silver, therefore, silver doesn't **cause** it...it's the combination that does. The Agyria rate for those who work silver...miners, refiners etc that are exposed to massive amounts daily for decades is around 1 in 2,000. Normally, Oral doses of Silver [in any form] are eliminated at the rate of around 97% within 48 hours and inhaled DUST at 94% within 30 days. You can imagine how hard it is to find blue people to head up the Smurf parade of horrors? ..they'll keep sifting though the millions and find one now and then...and often doctor up the photo shoots. All production methods that use electricity and water make nothing BUT ionic silver. Particles come later as solubility limits of water are exceeded, often in high concentration zones near the electrodes [Nernst Diffusion layer] and consist of varying ratios of Silver Hydroxide, Silver Oxide and metallic silver with generally between 85 to 97% remaining ionic over all. Particle sizes and numbers determined by a TEM [electron microscope] are completely bogus. Those are photos of silver oxide particles made OUT OF Ions by preparing the sample for testing and were never in the water With 85 to 97% being ionic, that being as small as it can be and still be silver and anything bigger is not an Ionparticle size is virtually irrelevant. That's like 3 specks of pepper in a spoon of salt. If you turn all the salt INTO pepper, then you get a TEM photo of particles If it's small enough to get in, it's small enough to get out. Too big to get in? Doesn't need to get out. [Free pass..through] Membranes in the body make pretty darned good Osmosis filters. Those filters are even ion selective by virtue of what's behind them. Worry is what gives ya the Blues, way beyond the capabilit-EIS of Silver. Ode Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing agyria problems? Many thanks Rachel -- Share your photos with Windows Live Photos Free. Try it Now! -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
Greetings and welcome, Rachel! I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions... Please do... ... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing agyria problems? Good questions, all. Speaking in technical, rather than marketing terms, a colloid is a suspension of particles that are small enough to stay dispersed in a liquid just by the random mixing caused by Brownian motion within the liquid. That's just the normal movement of the molecules of the liquid due to the latent heat energy they posess due to the fact that our planet isn't a dark, frozen rock in space. Thank the sun for that! Colloidal particles could be pretty big, on an atomic scale, consisting of 10's or 100's of atoms of a substance, or more. If they don't settle out after a long time then they're small enough for the suspension to be called a colloid; if they do settle out, they're not. Fine clay in water can form a colloidal suspension, for example. It'll stay cloudy indefinitely and not settle out. An ion is a particle, too, but specifically an atom or small group of atoms that has gained or lost at least one electron and thus has an electrical charge. Common table salt in water breaks apart into equal numbers of: Na(+) sodium ions with a missing electron and a positive charge Cl(-) chlorine ions with an extra electron and a negative charge Even in plain water, random movement will cause there to be a few hydrogen, H(+) ions and hydroxyl, OH(-) ions floating about, as water molecules sponaneously break apart. They will recombine and cancel each other out, and form again, indefinitely. Now, talking about silver, including some translation of marketing- speak: What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle. Grind up silver metal into a powder, toss it in some liquid, and call it colloidal silver... You'd be right, at least until it settles out in the bottom of the bottle. Shake before use, no doubt! shudder Put it in a protein gel to keep it suspended better and you'd have one of the early silver protein products. (There are some recent versions of these that are not so crudely made...) Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound, mix it with another chemical, causing the compound to break up and the silver to precipitate out as tiny particles... and you'll have one of the chemically derived products calling themselves colloidal silver. Some of these are bottled and sold by health-food stores. Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound and dilute it with water and sell it directly... and you'll have yet another product that, while it might be effective and safe if used sparingly, has also been linked more than once to cases of argyria. Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver generator, and you'll put silver into pure distilled water by low voltage direct current electricity. At low concentrations, this will produce mostly ions (single atoms) of silver, each bearing a positive charge, floating around in the water. Up to the solubility limit (about 13ppm, isn't it?) these will mostly stay isolated in the water. (Which has led to some of our members calling this kind of preparation EIS, for Electrically Isolated Silver.) Near the positive silver electrode, though, the local concentration can be pretty high, leading to atoms hitting each other occasionally and clumping together to make particles. These particles might or might not still have a charge on them, but they're certainly small enough to stay in suspension. If you run the CS maker long enough, the ions of silver will become crowded enough in the water to find each other and clump together just by random motion. After running it long enough, the clumps of atoms can grow big enough to start falling out of suspension. Go on even longer and you'll end up with mud. grin Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both the ionic and colloidal forms. Most of us try to make a relatively low concentration CS or EIS that will generally turn out to be 10 to 30% particles and 70 to 90% ions. From a few ppm to about 10ppm is easy to do, safe, stable, and generally effective. Exactly what proportion you produce isn't all that important. It just works. Back to marketing hype: People will claim that either ionic or particulate (colloidal) silver is the part that's effective, and that the other is less or not effective. They'll say it's only because of the few percent of colloid that forms that our simple EIS works at all. Others will say the particulate part doesn't work and that it's the ions that do the job... A little thought will
Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
Hey Arnold, it's not plagiarism if you put it in quotes and credit it to the source in the footnotes! grin Mike D. Hi Mike, As usual, a great explanation. Tell me, how do you feel about plagiarism? I am usually strongly against it and would not indulge in it, probably from fear of being discovered. In this case I have a strong urge to just do a copy and paste. - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver Greetings and welcome, Rachel! I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions... Please do... ... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing agyria problems? Good questions, all. Speaking in technical, rather than marketing terms, a colloid is a suspension of particles that are small enough to stay dispersed in a liquid just by the random mixing caused by Brownian motion within the liquid. That's just the normal movement of the molecules of the liquid due to the latent heat energy they posess due to the fact that our planet isn't a dark, frozen rock in space. Thank the sun for that! Colloidal particles could be pretty big, on an atomic scale, consisting of 10's or 100's of atoms of a substance, or more. If they don't settle out after a long time then they're small enough for the suspension to be called a colloid; if they do settle out, they're not. Fine clay in water can form a colloidal suspension, for example. It'll stay cloudy indefinitely and not settle out. An ion is a particle, too, but specifically an atom or small group of atoms that has gained or lost at least one electron and thus has an electrical charge. Common table salt in water breaks apart into equal numbers of: Na(+) sodium ions with a missing electron and a positive charge Cl(-) chlorine ions with an extra electron and a negative charge Even in plain water, random movement will cause there to be a few hydrogen, H(+) ions and hydroxyl, OH(-) ions floating about, as water molecules sponaneously break apart. They will recombine and cancel each other out, and form again, indefinitely. Now, talking about silver, including some translation of marketing- speak: What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle. Grind up silver metal into a powder, toss it in some liquid, and call it colloidal silver... You'd be right, at least until it settles out in the bottom of the bottle. Shake before use, no doubt! shudder Put it in a protein gel to keep it suspended better and you'd have one of the early silver protein products. (There are some recent versions of these that are not so crudely made...) Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound, mix it with another chemical, causing the compound to break up and the silver to precipitate out as tiny particles... and you'll have one of the chemically derived products calling themselves colloidal silver. Some of these are bottled and sold by health-food stores. Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound and dilute it with water and sell it directly... and you'll have yet another product that, while it might be effective and safe if used sparingly, has also been linked more than once to cases of argyria. Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver generator, and you'll put silver into pure distilled water by low voltage direct current electricity. At low concentrations, this will produce mostly ions (single atoms) of silver, each bearing a positive charge, floating around in the water. Up to the solubility limit (about 13ppm, isn't it?) these will mostly stay isolated in the water. (Which has led to some of our members calling this kind of preparation EIS, for Electrically Isolated Silver.) Near the positive silver electrode, though, the local concentration can be pretty high, leading to atoms hitting each other occasionally and clumping together to make particles. These particles might or might not still have a charge on them, but they're certainly small enough to stay in suspension. If you run the CS maker long enough, the ions of silver will become crowded enough in the water to find each other and clump together just by random motion. After running it long enough, the clumps of atoms can grow big enough to start falling out of suspension. Go on even longer and you'll end up with mud. grin Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both the ionic and colloidal forms. Most of us try to make a relatively low
RE: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
From: mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 18:06:38 -0500 Subject: Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver Greetings and welcome, Rachel! I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions... Please do... ... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing agyria problems? Mike's severely snipped quote: [What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle.] -I recommend you read this part over and over till it is well understood. [Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver generator] -This would be the best way, you'll know exactly what EIS you have then. [Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both the ionic and colloidal forms.] -Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. [Most of us try to make a relatively low concentration CS or EIS that will generally turn out to be 10 to 30% particles and 70 to 90% ions.] -This is generally true, but in my experience if you build your own generator this 'ratio' could differ slightly, depending on how the generator is constructed, and possibly in combination with the methods used to produce EIS. In my experience, using my own equipment and production methods, I have gotten this ratio closer to 50/50. My experimentation and observations have led me to consider which particular type of solution to use for any given situation, best of both worlds if you like, ions for internal use, particles for external use, or vise versa depending on an individuals interpretation of which is 'best', or what 'works', this assists me in deciding what type of solution to use at the time, and this incorporates 'colour' for me also. [Back to marketing hype: People will claim that either ionic or particulate (colloidal) silver is the part that's effective, and that the other is less or not effective. Others will say the particulate part doesn't work and that it's the ions that do the job...] -This sort of ties in with what I explained as a personal observation in the above few lines. Perhaps I could suggest you read The Body Electric by Robert O Becker and Colloids in Health and Disease by Alfred B. Searle, I feel sure you won't regret doing so. [Every case of argyria we know of has involved higher concentrations and chemical salts or other compounds or protein-based preparations, if the cause is known precisely at all.] -I recommend you read this one over and over till it is fully understood also. [In any case, we're all guinea pigs and lab rats, experimenting on ourselves with little or no guidance from proper authorities. In other words, we're all on our own.] -Never truer words were spoken!! I'm using myself as a, 'case study' if you like, ingesting a quantity of EIS every morning before breakfast, and have been doing so for several years. You will need to be careful of who you consider the proper authorities would be Mike speaks of here, I suggest it would be prudent not to stray too far from this site though. g [I'm sure if I've left anything out or made any mistakes others will dive in with their corrections and additions. That's the way this place works! grin] -Snap! Neville. _ Looking to change your car this year? Find car news, reviews and more http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT
Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
Hi Mike, As usual, a great explanation. Tell me, how do you feel about plagiarism? I am usually strongly against it and would not indulge in it, probably from fear of being discovered. In this case I have a strong urge to just do a copy and paste. - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver Greetings and welcome, Rachel! I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions... Please do... ... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing agyria problems? Good questions, all. Speaking in technical, rather than marketing terms, a colloid is a suspension of particles that are small enough to stay dispersed in a liquid just by the random mixing caused by Brownian motion within the liquid. That's just the normal movement of the molecules of the liquid due to the latent heat energy they posess due to the fact that our planet isn't a dark, frozen rock in space. Thank the sun for that! Colloidal particles could be pretty big, on an atomic scale, consisting of 10's or 100's of atoms of a substance, or more. If they don't settle out after a long time then they're small enough for the suspension to be called a colloid; if they do settle out, they're not. Fine clay in water can form a colloidal suspension, for example. It'll stay cloudy indefinitely and not settle out. An ion is a particle, too, but specifically an atom or small group of atoms that has gained or lost at least one electron and thus has an electrical charge. Common table salt in water breaks apart into equal numbers of: Na(+) sodium ions with a missing electron and a positive charge Cl(-) chlorine ions with an extra electron and a negative charge Even in plain water, random movement will cause there to be a few hydrogen, H(+) ions and hydroxyl, OH(-) ions floating about, as water molecules sponaneously break apart. They will recombine and cancel each other out, and form again, indefinitely. Now, talking about silver, including some translation of marketing- speak: What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle. Grind up silver metal into a powder, toss it in some liquid, and call it colloidal silver... You'd be right, at least until it settles out in the bottom of the bottle. Shake before use, no doubt! shudder Put it in a protein gel to keep it suspended better and you'd have one of the early silver protein products. (There are some recent versions of these that are not so crudely made...) Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound, mix it with another chemical, causing the compound to break up and the silver to precipitate out as tiny particles... and you'll have one of the chemically derived products calling themselves colloidal silver. Some of these are bottled and sold by health-food stores. Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound and dilute it with water and sell it directly... and you'll have yet another product that, while it might be effective and safe if used sparingly, has also been linked more than once to cases of argyria. Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver generator, and you'll put silver into pure distilled water by low voltage direct current electricity. At low concentrations, this will produce mostly ions (single atoms) of silver, each bearing a positive charge, floating around in the water. Up to the solubility limit (about 13ppm, isn't it?) these will mostly stay isolated in the water. (Which has led to some of our members calling this kind of preparation EIS, for Electrically Isolated Silver.) Near the positive silver electrode, though, the local concentration can be pretty high, leading to atoms hitting each other occasionally and clumping together to make particles. These particles might or might not still have a charge on them, but they're certainly small enough to stay in suspension. If you run the CS maker long enough, the ions of silver will become crowded enough in the water to find each other and clump together just by random motion. After running it long enough, the clumps of atoms can grow big enough to start falling out of suspension. Go on even longer and you'll end up with mud. grin Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both the ionic and colloidal forms. Most of us try to make a relatively low concentration CS or EIS that will generally turn out to be 10 to 30% particles and 70 to 90% ions. From a few ppm to about 10ppm is easy to do, safe, stable, and generally effective. Exactly what proportion you produce isn't all that important. It just works. Back to marketing
Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
One interesting claim by Ode: that some studies show that even lower concentrations -- 3% I think -- are dramatically more effective than higher. He once sent me a link to the information that resolved to a page describing a very interesting outdoor/ survival mult-tool with an axe, knife, compass, etc. (I would like to have one, actually, but lost the link.)Back on track: any links to data about the lower concentrations would be helpful.Why spend time (many hours for a good constant current unit) to make a ppm that is less effective? On Monday, May 4, 2009, at 03:11 Asia/Tokyo, M. G. Devour wrote: A low concentration (~5-10 ppm), mixed ionic/colloidal silver preparation like we advocate, will drown you from excessive water intake long before you can ingest enough silver to cause argyria, at least as far as experience has shown so far. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver
Well done Malcom; I will keep this in case anyone else needs to know! Dee ---Original Message--- From: Malcolm Date: 18/06/2008 06:12:40 To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver Hi Mary Ellen, Ok, here we go, without all the . . . . ; first off, some things dissolve easily in water - salt, sugar, alcohol (think vodka), even oxygen and nitrogen and carbon dioxide out of the air though some of these not very much. Some things don't dissolve - though you can get an argument about that, but for now; uh . . . no.
RE: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver
Thanksfor your help -Original Message- From: cking...@nycap.rr.com [mailto:cking...@nycap.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:08 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver Lots of questions answered here: http://silver-lightning.com/theory.html By our esteemed gurus Chuck If you are in a car travelling at the speed of light in reverse and turn on the headlights, what happens? On 6/17/2008 10:10:10 PM, Mary Ellen Murphy (maryelle...@bellsouth.net) wrote: I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal silver. Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a newcomer all it is is jibber jabber. I still don't have clue what the difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal. I would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I guess arguing. Could someone help. I have read and read and you guys just have me lost. I appreciate the info but I don't think anyone has said which is ionic and which is colloidal. Thanks Mary Ellen -Original Message- From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FW: CSInfo about the best generatrorfor collodial Frank Key's wonderful contributions to this list have included his statement that he believes home-made EIS contains both ionic and particulate silver, mostly the former, and that it is effective. That's the key point. The gentleman has a product for sale, but is quite direct and honest about the efficacy of low-cost alternatives. That puts him high on -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver
Mary Ellen Murphy wrote: I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal silver. Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a newcomer all it is is jibber jabber. I still don't have clue what the difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal. I would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I guess arguing. Could someone help. I have read and read and you guys just have me lost. I appreciate the info but I don't think anyone has said which is ionic and which is colloidal. Atoms can present themselves in 4 forms. 1. As single atoms, such as neon does. 2. As a compound, in which the atoms are loosely associated via electric field due to losing or gaining an electron. An atom which has gained or lost an electron (or more) is referred to as an ion. Ionic compounds typically disassociate when dissolved in water, which is an ionic solvent. That is the positive ion and negative ions will move about in the solution independent of each other. Salt is a good example of this. 3. Covalent bonding. This is when two or more atoms combine by sharing one or more electrons. These compounds typically do not dissolve in water, but there are exceptions, such as sugar. Hydrocarbons, plastics and even molecules of most gases are in this form. A diamond is one huge covalently bonded group of carbon atoms. 4. Particle, held together not by electrons or charge but by Van der Waals force. An example of this would be a salt crystal, the salt compound is ionically bonded sodium and chlorine, but all those molecules stick together due to the Van der Waals force. Thus when one is speaking of ionic silver, they are speaking of silver atoms which have lost an electron and are positively charged. In the EIS we typically make these silver ions give their electron to a water molecule, and cause either a negatively charged O, or negatively charged OH as the opposite ion. Thus for the ionic portion of the mix, we have a mixture of silver oxide and silver hydroxide. Each of these compounds have a solubility limit of about 13 ppm. If you add a small amount of salt to EIS, then it will cloud up due to this portion reacting with salt, and forming near insoluble silver chloride. Shining a laser into this will not product any Tyndall effect. This is the portion which is capable of causing injured cells to revert back to stem cells. It is also effective in killing pathogens. For the particulate portion, which is the colloidal part, we have clumps of silver atoms, which have no charge They may range from 2 atoms to thousands of atoms each. The more atoms in the particle, the larger it becomes, and the less stable they are. Adding salt to this will cause no change. Using a laser though will give Tyndall effect. This part is believed to be very effective in killing pathogens. I hope this helps. Marshall Thanks Mary Ellen -Original Message- From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FW: CSInfo about the best generatrorfor collodial Frank Key's wonderful contributions to this list have included his statement that he believes home-made EIS contains both ionic and particulate silver, mostly the former, and that it is effective. That's the key point. The gentleman has a product for sale, but is quite direct and honest about the efficacy of low-cost alternatives. That puts him high on my list of honest people, and though I've not purchased his product, more inclined to believe that it is efficacious and arguably worth the higher cost, as some on this list have claimed. As for the ionic/particulate debate, some of the best-informed experts here have never resolved the matter well enough for me to draw solid conclusions. Again, the bottom line: Mr. Key will vouch for the efficacy of the product most of us make using low-cost electrolytic devices. On Monday, Jun 16, 2008, at 23:07 Asia/Tokyo, Jim Meissner yahoo wrote: I have been a member of this group for over 9 years and have learned a lot of very useful information by just lurking. There is a collection of great minds here. I have not been active for a few years now, but I remember the ion, particle wars with Frank Key on one side and seemingly everyone else on the other side. I have visited Frank Key's testing laboratory on several occasions. He has purchased the very best, money no object, test equipment. I would guess that he has more that a million dollars sitting in one room. I remember that the people who criticized Frank the loudest had no test equipment at all, just pet theories. He even offered to test anybody's colloidal silver for free to do a comparison. I am an engineer and I
Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver
Mary Ellen, They all make some of both, usually 75-90% ionic, the balance colloidal...Except Frank Key's product which isn't going to interest you but it is about 80% colloidal, 20% ionic. The generators so far suggested to you are all going to give the former combination...mostly ionic and less colloidal...BUT both work just fine. I can vouch for the silverpuppy, but I know the others are fine too...I just happen to like that one. I hope this helps clear it up for you. Kind regards, Craig -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver
Lots of questions answered here: http://silver-lightning.com/theory.html By our esteemed gurus Chuck If you are in a car travelling at the speed of light in reverse and turn on the headlights, what happens? On 6/17/2008 10:10:10 PM, Mary Ellen Murphy (maryelle...@bellsouth.net) wrote: I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal silver. Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a newcomer all it is is jibber jabber. I still don't have clue what the difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal. I would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I guess arguing. Could someone help. I have read and read and you guys just have me lost. I appreciate the info but I don't think anyone has said which is ionic and which is colloidal. Thanks Mary Ellen -Original Message- From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FW: CSInfo about the best generatrorfor collodial Frank Key's wonderful contributions to this list have included his statement that he believes home-made EIS contains both ionic and particulate silver, mostly the former, and that it is effective. That's the key point. The gentleman has a product for sale, but is quite direct and honest about the efficacy of low-cost alternatives. That puts him high on No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 AM
Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver
Hi Mary Ellen, Ok, here we go, without all the . . . . ; first off, some things dissolve easily in water - salt, sugar, alcohol (think vodka), even oxygen and nitrogen and carbon dioxide out of the air though some of these not very much. Some things don't dissolve - though you can get an argument about that, but for now; uh . . . no. So next, strange as it may seem, there are two ways things dissolve in water; they either stay themselves and their molecules just get totally swirled into and around with the water molecules - like alcohol - or they get split into two parts, a positive part and a negative. The positive and negative descriptions of the parts are there because the whatever - let's say good ol' salt - when it dissolves in water - gets torn in two so a very little extra + (plus) electric charge ends up on one piece and a matching opposite - (minus) electric charge on the other: Those are ions, a positive ion, and a negative ion, from what was salt. Neither one alone is still salt . . . I know salty water tastes like salt, it has salt in it, salt crystals in your hand taste like salt. I'm not making this stuff up; you asked, and I enjoy explaining it, but you can't get a whole chemistry class in a couple of notes so take it a bit at a time. An ion is a tiny bit of something that dissolved in water by splitting off a bit of itself, often a tiny - electric charge, an electron. So, would you believe silver will dissolve in water? Well, with a little help we can do it; basically a colloidal silver generator takes some electric charges and runs them out into a silver wire stuck into some water. There's another silver wire with the opposite kind of electric charges in the water too, but the one with the positive charges attracts one of a silver molecule's negative charges and somehow convinces that Ion of silver to leave the wire. Of course it's not all so simple, sometimes the silver ion turns right around and sticks back on, sometimes a few of them get out there, get together and steal some charges from some water and turn back into plain, but very very small particles of silver. Those particles are what make the colloidal part of the deal. The generators discussed on this list are mostly of the kind that do this with electricity; it seems to be the best way, and the colloidal silver made with them is actually part Ionic - silver ions - and part particulate. And if the particles are small, and most of them are, they are said to be colloidal which means they are SO small they won't even settle out to the bottom in the water. Generally you get about eighty percent ionic silver and twenty percent colloidal silver in a batch. Both are just fine! All for now, remember to take care of yourself! Malcolm On Tue, 2008-06-17 at 21:10 -0500, Mary Ellen Murphy wrote: I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal silver. Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a newcomer all it is is jibber jabber. I still don't have clue what the difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal. I would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I guess arguing. Could someone help. I have read and read and you guys just have me lost. I appreciate the info but I don't think anyone has said which is ionic and which is colloidal. Thanks Mary Ellen -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com