Re:CSMy first post - selenium
glutathione (GSH) as a carrier molecule. And the study determined that selenomethionine provides for synthesis of glutathione without combining with silver. Small silver particulate is excreted by the kidney. There are more studies/articles but I think these cover it well enough. -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:46 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: Re:CSMy first post Hi Steve, Is there a dosage level of CS that requires the change to selenomethionine instead of selenium? I take selenium once a day in the evening and am wondering if I need to change the formulation. I take approximately 2 oz CS am and pm. If the CS is taken hours away from the selenium does that help? Thank you. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
Thanks, Steve. I just checked and it is selenomethionine. I take 200 mcg at dinnertime. So I will keep my level around 4 oz/day unless I get sick and need to increase it short term. I appreciate the assistance. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:12 AM Subject: Re:CSMy first post - selenium At 4 oz a day, you are at the max daily amount I would take for 10 ppm CS. Personally, at that amount I would use the selenomethionine form of selenium. Do you know that the selenium you are taking is not selenomethionine? Taking the selenium at a different time helps in that it prevents the selenium from complexing with the silver in the digestive tract. If they did complex in the digestive tract, the selenium/silver complex would just pass on out in the feces. But the amount of CS you are taking (at 10 ppm) is around the maximum amount the liver can excrete in a day. (I know about the Altman study that indicates that most of the silver in EIS is excreted by the kidney. But the info is misleading if you do not really understand EIS in vivo and how different forms of silver are excreted by the body. But it is somewhat complex and I do not want to get into that here.) So the chances of selenium and silver complexing is significant and I would use selenomethionine to avoid it. Just FYI, I personally only supplement with selenomethionine. Many forms of selenium complexes with silver but selenomethionine is the only form I have study data on that indicates it does not complex with silver. Below I provide some info on selenium and silver. - Steve N Hepatobiliary transport and organ distribution of silver in the rat as influenced by selenite. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7292506 Bile from rats injected with 110mAgNO3 (1 micromol/kg) were fractionated on Sephadex G-15 revealing binding of silver to one high molecular weight substance and one low molecular weight substance eluting corresponding to the void volume and glutathione (GSH) respectively. Fractionation of AgNO3 and GSH mixed in vitro gave rise to a polynuclear complex and a 1 : 1 complex of Ag+-GSH which both eluted corresponding to silver in bile. Depletion of GSH in the liver by diethylmaleate (3.9 mmol/kg) caused a parallel decrease in the biliary excretion of both silver and reduced GSH. These findings support the hypothesis that silver is excreted into bile by a GSH-dependent mechanism most likely using GSH as a carrier molecule. Selenite (1 micromol/kg) inhibited the biliary excretion of silver while AgNO3 (1 mumol/kg) did not influence the excretion of selenium into bile. Pretreatment with selenite (1 micromol/kg) also caused a retention of silver (AgNO3, 1 micromol/kg) in the blood, kidney and brain. The liver content of silver was decreased and the organ to plasma ratio of silver was unchanged for erythrocytes, but decreased for the brain, kidney and liver, respectively. The effects caused by selenite are attributed to the formation of Ag2Se complexes which are nearly water insoluble and probably unavailable for biliary excretion. Selenium metabolites (GSSeSG, GSSeH) which are excreted into bile are probably not available for complexing with Ag+. [I will try and simplify the text above: 1. Silver (in solution) is excreted in the bile by using glutathione (GSH) as a carrier molecule. 2. Selenite, a form of selenium, inhibits the excretion of silver while silver does not influence the excretion of selenium into bile. 3. Selenite causes the retention of silver in the blood, kidney and brain. 4. The effects above are caused by silver-selenium complexes that are nearly water insoluble and probably unavailable for biliary excretion. 5. Ergo, selenium reduces the excretion of silver and causes retention in the blood and tissues.] Toxicological Profile for Silver http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp146-c2.pdf The deposition of silver in the kidney was increased under conditions of high selenium exposure. This may be important in the development of argyria in people exposed to silver who ingest foods that contain large amounts of selenium. It should be noted that selenium plays a dual role in the toxicity of silver. On the one hand, it increases the silver deposition rate in body tissues, which suggests that humans exposed to both high selenium and high silver may be more likely to develop argyria. On the other hand, a Selenium deficient diet combined with high silver intake can cause liver necrosis. As I mentioned, the selenomethionine form of selenium does not cause an accumulation of silver in the tissues and still provides the necessary support of the liver. That is documented in the following study: Agricultural and Biological Chemistry, Vol.47 Bioavailability of Selenite, Selenomethionine and Selenocystine in Rats with Silver Loading To view study select the full text abstract at: http://www.journalarchive.jst.go.jp/english
Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
I eat about 5 Brazil nuts a day to get my selenium...wonder where that leaves me in the scheme of things? Best regards, Sandy --- On Fri, 8/27/10, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, August 27, 2010, 9:34 AM Thanks, Steve. I just checked and it is selenomethionine. I take 200 mcg at dinnertime. So I will keep my level around 4 oz/day unless I get sick and need to increase it short term. I appreciate the assistance. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re:CSMy first post - selenium
Brazil nuts contain mostly selenomethionine. See:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0256541
Characterization of Selenium Species in Brazil Nuts by HPLC−ICP-MS and ES-MS
Extracts are evaluated against available standards for the commercially
obtainable seleno-amino acids, selenomethionine (SeMet), selenoethionine
(SeEt), and selenocystine (SeCys); selenomethionine was demonstrated to be the
most abundant of these seleno-amino acids. Further characterization of
unidentified selenium-containing peaks is attempted by the employment of
several procedures, including electrospray-mass spectrometry (ES-MS). A peptide
structure was identified; however, this was considered a tentative proposal due
to the large background produced by the extremely complicated brazil nut
matrix.
Plus, this would be an issue only if you take large amounts of CS regularly.
- Steve N
-Original Message-
From: Sandy [mailto:hollis302...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:29 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
I eat about 5 Brazil nuts a day to get my selenium...wonder where that leaves
me in the scheme of things?
Best regards,
Sandy
--- On Fri, 8/27/10, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote:
From: needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Friday, August 27, 2010, 9:34 AM
Thanks, Steve. I just checked
and it is selenomethionine. I take 200 mcg at
dinnertime. So I will keep my level around 4 oz/day
unless I get sick and need to increase it short term.
I appreciate the assistance.
PT
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Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
Welcome Sandy! The kefir babies are growing great!!! :-) PT - Original Message - From: Sandy hollis302...@yahoo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium I eat about 5 Brazil nuts a day to get my selenium...wonder where that leaves me in the scheme of things? Best regards, Sandy --- On Fri, 8/27/10, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, August 27, 2010, 9:34 AM Thanks, Steve. I just checked and it is selenomethionine. I take 200 mcg at dinnertime. So I will keep my level around 4 oz/day unless I get sick and need to increase it short term. I appreciate the assistance. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re:CSMy first post - selenium
Thank you, Steve this is great to know and I so appreciate your researching
efforts. Your post is certainly a keeper and is going into my CS saved files.
;)
I only take small amounts of CS when I feel it's needed.
Best regards as always,
Sandy
--- On Fri, 8/27/10, Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com wrote:
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com
Subject: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Friday, August 27, 2010, 10:50 AM
Brazil nuts contain mostly
selenomethionine. See:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0256541
Characterization of Selenium Species in Brazil Nuts by
HPLC−ICP-MS and ES-MS
Extracts are evaluated against available standards for the
commercially obtainable seleno-amino acids, selenomethionine
(SeMet), selenoethionine (SeEt), and selenocystine (SeCys);
selenomethionine was demonstrated to be the most abundant of
these seleno-amino acids. Further characterization of
unidentified selenium-containing peaks is attempted by the
employment of several procedures, including
electrospray-mass spectrometry (ES-MS). A peptide structure
was identified; however, this was considered a tentative
proposal due to the large background produced by the
extremely complicated brazil nut matrix.
Plus, this would be an issue only if you take large amounts
of CS regularly.
- Steve N
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Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
Hi PT, Thanks and I'm so glad 'our' kefir babies are doing so well. Sandy --- On Fri, 8/27/10, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, August 27, 2010, 10:59 AM Welcome Sandy! The kefir babies are growing great!!! :-) PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re:CSMy first post
Welcome Dave, I just read your second post as well, but would like to make a couple of comments to this post. 32 oz of 12 ppm CS daily is an awful lot of silver. Far more than your body can excrete in a day. If you use that much regularly the excess silver has to go somewhere. And that somewhere is your tissues. While I understand the severity of your condition having Lyme, etc., I would strongly recommend a lower dose. I would also strongly recommend against the use of silver nitrate. There are alternatives that are more effective with less risk of argyria. Silver nitrate is notorious for causing argyria. Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, can reduce it to metallic silver in the tissues where it then remains and contributes to argyria. A much better alternative is silver citrate, which is easy to make. However, you will still need to limit it's usage to reasonable quantities. If you are supplementing selenium while using large amounts of CS, and you should be, use the selenomethionine form of selenium. It will not complex with silver and cause the deposition of silver in the tissues. I first started using CS to get me away from a continuous use of antibiotics. The CS got me off antibiotics but I was using more CS than I liked. I found that cycling CS with iodine worked well for me and now I use fairly low amounts of either. I hope you find something that works for you. Regards, Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:02 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSMy first post Hi All, I'm new to this list. I've been following every CS group on yahoo, but they all seem pretty dead! This one looks like the goldmine I've been looking for! I'm here to learn about all sorts of innumerable details of CS. I am not in the biz, but have not ruled out the possibility that some day I might be. Hence I want to learn, learn, learn. I have Lyme, bartonella, babesia, mycoplasma, candida, and I don't know what else. A regular swamp. I believe Lyme is minimal now and candida is essentially a non issue now. Bartonella I think is the main enemy by far right now. I have been sick since age 16, and just kind of lived with it until age 22. I couldn't live with it anymore. It was do or die. In what I now think was truly a race for my life, I finally got diagnosed with Lyme at age 23. Somehow I finished grad school. I am now 25, and too sick to work. I have a B.S. and M.S. in industrial engineering from a top university. I've done all sorts of crazy therapies. The ones that have helped the most for my particular case: 1. Coconut oil absolutely ransacked candida where as nystatin and diflucan had no apparent effect at all. 2. Doug coil rife machine herxed and improved on Lyme frequencies and eventually stopped being effective. Presumably because the other infections are the bad guys left. 3. Homemade ionic silver. Sometimes as much as 32 oz a day. Somewhat regularly for a few months. Then it stopped being effective orally. If I don't take it for 4 or 5 days, I feel some bugs edging up. I take CS, then it knocks that feeling out for 4 or 5 days. I think I might slowly head backwards if I did not keep doing this with the CS. In general, I tend not to respond to treatments. I am the guy who wishes he could get something to make him herx, but just can't. The latest development in my treatment: IV silver nitrate I have had two treatments so far. First one have me a herx that was almost literally identical to flu. Fever, chills, weakness, etc. I have never in my life had a herx that felt like the immune system was actually doing its job! The second treatment was lower dose cuz I was scared after the first treatment. No flu symptoms but more usual herx symptoms (fatigue, depression, brain fog). Round three is this friday! ~David p.s. to reply to messages, do I just click reply to it when I get messages in my gmail inbox? I subscribed to the digest. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Re:CSMy first post
Hi Steve, Is there a dosage level of CS that requires the change to selenomethionine instead of selenium? I take selenium once a day in the evening and am wondering if I need to change the formulation. I take approximately 2 oz CS am and pm. If the CS is taken hours away from the selenium does that help? Thank you. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: Re:CSMy first post Welcome Dave, I just read your second post as well, but would like to make a couple of comments to this post. 32 oz of 12 ppm CS daily is an awful lot of silver. Far more than your body can excrete in a day. If you use that much regularly the excess silver has to go somewhere. And that somewhere is your tissues. While I understand the severity of your condition having Lyme, etc., I would strongly recommend a lower dose. I would also strongly recommend against the use of silver nitrate. There are alternatives that are more effective with less risk of argyria. Silver nitrate is notorious for causing argyria. Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, can reduce it to metallic silver in the tissues where it then remains and contributes to argyria. A much better alternative is silver citrate, which is easy to make. However, you will still need to limit it's usage to reasonable quantities. If you are supplementing selenium while using large amounts of CS, and you should be, use the selenomethionine form of selenium. It will not complex with silver and cause the deposition of silver in the tissues. I first started using CS to get me away from a continuous use of antibiotics. The CS got me off antibiotics but I was using more CS than I liked. I found that cycling CS with iodine worked well for me and now I use fairly low amounts of either. I hope you find something that works for you. Regards, Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:02 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSMy first post Hi All, I'm new to this list. I've been following every CS group on yahoo, but they all seem pretty dead! This one looks like the goldmine I've been looking for! I'm here to learn about all sorts of innumerable details of CS. I am not in the biz, but have not ruled out the possibility that some day I might be. Hence I want to learn, learn, learn. I have Lyme, bartonella, babesia, mycoplasma, candida, and I don't know what else. A regular swamp. I believe Lyme is minimal now and candida is essentially a non issue now. Bartonella I think is the main enemy by far right now. I have been sick since age 16, and just kind of lived with it until age 22. I couldn't live with it anymore. It was do or die. In what I now think was truly a race for my life, I finally got diagnosed with Lyme at age 23. Somehow I finished grad school. I am now 25, and too sick to work. I have a B.S. and M.S. in industrial engineering from a top university. I've done all sorts of crazy therapies. The ones that have helped the most for my particular case: 1. Coconut oil absolutely ransacked candida where as nystatin and diflucan had no apparent effect at all. 2. Doug coil rife machine herxed and improved on Lyme frequencies and eventually stopped being effective. Presumably because the other infections are the bad guys left. 3. Homemade ionic silver. Sometimes as much as 32 oz a day. Somewhat regularly for a few months. Then it stopped being effective orally. If I don't take it for 4 or 5 days, I feel some bugs edging up. I take CS, then it knocks that feeling out for 4 or 5 days. I think I might slowly head backwards if I did not keep doing this with the CS. In general, I tend not to respond to treatments. I am the guy who wishes he could get something to make him herx, but just can't. The latest development in my treatment: IV silver nitrate I have had two treatments so far. First one have me a herx that was almost literally identical to flu. Fever, chills, weakness, etc. I have never in my life had a herx that felt like the immune system was actually doing its job! The second treatment was lower dose cuz I was scared after the first treatment. No flu symptoms but more usual herx symptoms (fatigue, depression, brain fog). Round three is this friday! ~David p.s. to reply to messages, do I just click reply to it when I get messages in my gmail inbox? I subscribed to the digest. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
