Re: [Simh] Fwd: [TUHS] An abandoned piece of K&R C
On the StackExchange page https://retrocomputing.stackex change.com/q/4965/4025 I got a comment: Re: the Ken Thompson addition and, therefore, the idea of asking the people that were actually there; Kernighan remains an employee of Google and can sometimes be spotted at the NYC office. Sadly I recently left but if anybody else here is a Googler then the usual internal means might allow a query to be put if appropriate respect is applied. I attended a presentation he gave while I was there and he seems like a very approachable fellow. Can anyone contact Mr. Kernighan? Thanks, Leo On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Leo Broukhis wrote: > Well, somebody had to have done it! > > > On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Larry Stewart wrote: > >> I took the liberty of cross posting this earlier to TUHS and I got >> an authoritative answer :) >> -Larry >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> *From: *Ken Thompson >> *Subject: **Re: [TUHS] Fwd: [Simh] An abandoned piece of K&R C* >> *Date: *2017, November 3 at 2:30:08 PM EDT >> *To: *Lawrence Stewart >> >> it's news to me. >> >> >> ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] NetBSD 7.0+ halt on development version (and some earlier versions) simh - mac and linux
On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Will Senn wrote: > I am trying to run the latest netbsd in simh on the microvax 3900 sim > according to the instructions found at > https://www.netbsd.org/ports/vax/emulator-howto.html and I'm getting a > halt. I tried it on the latest, but also on the 7.0 iso which apparently > worked at > some point. I also tried it on linux and it halted there as well. This issue > has > been raised previously, but I didn't see the resolution. Here is my mac run > with simh and ini file: > > $ vax > > MicroVAX 3900 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 733ac0d9 > sim> do -v {netbsd-boot} > File open error > sim> do -v netbsd-boot > netbsd-boot-1> load -r ka655x.bin > netbsd-boot-2> set cpu 64m > netbsd-boot-3> set rq0 ra92 > netbsd-boot-4> at rq0 netbsd.dsk > netbsd-boot-5> set rq1 cdrom > netbsd-boot-6> at rq1 vax.iso > netbsd-boot-7> at xq0 en1 > libpcap version 1.8.1 -- Apple version 67.60.2 > Eth: opened OS device en1 > netbsd-boot-8> boot cpu > > KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 > Performing normal system tests. > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed. > >>>boot dual: > (BOOT/R5:0 DUAL > > 2.. > ?41 DEVASSIGN, DUAL > HALT instruction, PC: 0C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) > sim> q > Goodbye > Eth: closed en1 Please try: >>>boot DUA1: Note the Digit 1, rather than the letter "L". - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] NetBSD 7.0+ halt on development version (and some earlier versions) simh - mac and linux
All, I am trying to run the latest netbsd in simh on the microvax 3900 sim according to the instructions found at https://www.netbsd.org/ports/vax/emulator-howto.html and I'm getting a halt. I tried it on the latest, but also on the 7.0 iso which apparently worked at some point. I also tried it on linux and it halted there as well. This issue has been raised previously, but I didn't see the resolution. Here is my mac run with simh and ini file: $ vax MicroVAX 3900 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 733ac0d9 sim> do -v {netbsd-boot} File open error sim> do -v netbsd-boot netbsd-boot-1> load -r ka655x.bin netbsd-boot-2> set cpu 64m netbsd-boot-3> set rq0 ra92 netbsd-boot-4> at rq0 netbsd.dsk netbsd-boot-5> set rq1 cdrom netbsd-boot-6> at rq1 vax.iso netbsd-boot-7> at xq0 en1 libpcap version 1.8.1 -- Apple version 67.60.2 Eth: opened OS device en1 netbsd-boot-8> boot cpu KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>boot dual: (BOOT/R5:0 DUAL 2.. ?41 DEVASSIGN, DUAL HALT instruction, PC: 0C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) sim> q Goodbye Eth: closed en1 == and linux - doesn't seem to like my nic setting: vax netbsd-boot MicroVAX 3900 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 1d2742ed Eth: open error - Unknown or unsupported network device netbsd-boot-7> at xq0 enp0s25 File open error KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>boot dual: (BOOT/R5:0 DUAL 2.. ?41 DEVASSIGN, DUALnetbsd-boot-8> boot cpu HALT instruction, PC: 0C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) sim> Thanks, Will -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh
> On Nov 9, 2017, at 3:10 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2017-11-09 07:51, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: >> Johnny Billquist writes: >>> I bet that would be written in some ANSI C, for which you won't find a >>> C compiler for V7... >> GCC has a PDP-11 backend, so maybe you can cross compile it. > > That would depend on if calling conventions, register conventions, a.out > format and so on are compatible between V7 and whatever format gcc uses. Not > to mention you also need all the V7 libraries where you do the cross compile. > I suspect this might be a bit much to deal with for Will... Some years ago the 2BSD flavor of the pdp11 back end in GCC was deleted, leaving only the "DEC" style (which isn't actually quite right for DEC assemblers). Some day I hope to restore it, but other things will likely come first. It may not be all that hard, a matter of retrieving it from the old releases and doing some modest tweaks to bring it back in. I'd encourage others to give it a try. paul ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] off topic, but many of you might find this interesting
Seeing people on the list wax nostalgic over unixes (unixen? Unixi?) long past got me to thinking about my first home unix: Microport system 5/AT. It was fairly impressive for the day - real, honest to God system 5 release 2 unix that would run on a PC/AT (80286) machine. I ran this at home from sometime in the late 80s until I bought a Slackware linux CD sometime in the early 90s. Uucp email, anyone? I did some research on Microport System5/AT and saw where a few people had attempted to get it running under various emulation platforms with no complete success until one of the developers of VirtualBox got involved and added support for it into VirtualBox. I found another user who had managed to get it running in VirtualBox by manually specifying disk geometry into System V/AT's fdisk, but it wasn't entirely clear what he'd done. Having luckily had the foresight to create image files of my install disks all those years ago, I managed to get it up and running. Unfortunately, one of my floppy images was corrupt, but fortunately it was the text processing options, which isn't all that interesting. So anyway, if any of you unix archeologists are interested in Microport System V/AT, let me know and I'll get you the install floppy images and details of how to configure the disk geometry. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh
Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 9, 2017, at 2:10 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > >> On 2017-11-09 07:51, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: >> Johnny Billquist writes: >>> I bet that would be written in some ANSI C, for which you won't find a >>> C compiler for V7... >> GCC has a PDP-11 backend, so maybe you can cross compile it. > > That would depend on if calling conventions, register conventions, a.out > format and so on are compatible between V7 and whatever format gcc uses. Not > to mention you also need all the V7 libraries where you do the cross compile. > I suspect this might be a bit much to deal with for Will... > > Johnny > You got that right, Johnny. Besides, the binary on the tape for more, a lesser less, works well enough:). I'm slowly but surely getting better at figuring out the environment - as I hit obstacles and overcome them, sometimes through my own efforts and sometimes with a little much appreciated assist. I've still got a ways to go, before I'm ready to cross compile for V7 without just doing the script kiddie method of copying and pasting stuff somebody said oughta work without any real depth of understanding what's going on under the hood. I've cross compiled linuxy stuff for arm and suchlike, but it's scripted, the binary formats standard, the header files in the right places, any chrooting set up by the scripts, etc. The concept isn't that difficult, but there are a lot of moving parts and potential complications. That said Warren's written some tools for this kinda work that are prolly simpler IIRC (aout?). Will ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] OpenBSD on Simh VAX 3.8-1 - Segmentation fault
Long time ago. It was probably Slackware 9. And as Mark says, the makefile needed a lot of tweaking and I'm not real proficient at C stuff so it took me a lot of fumbling around. The simh version was 3.8 or perhaps even earlier. Slackware didn't have much in the way of precompiled packages at the time. When I moved from Slackware to Debian things got a whole lot easier for the most part. When I was still working I had some forced experience with RedHat and (eeeww) UnixWare, but I find Debian much more straightforward and reliable. I use the Mint variant because I like the desktop and user interfaces. --Gary > On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:00 AM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > > On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: > >> Hello! > >> Gary which release of Slackware Linux was this? I've found that SIMH > >> properly builds on all releases from 7.2 (Which was only released as a > Snap > >> Shot Disk from the time of the first shows) all the way the 14.1. > >> I only needed to figure out how to update the LibCap library so that > >> networking would work properly once that arrived not too long ago. As an > >> aside I moved away from trying to build it here on this laptop running > 14.2 > >> 64bit, because networking requires a fixed connection, not WiFi. > > > > His issues might not have much to do with Slackware, but more to do > > with the version of simh. > > > > The github simh code (4.x) has built easily on most systems for a very > long > > time. > > > > Simh 3.9 was reasonable as well but not as robust as the current code. > > > > Simh 3.8-x might have needed local customizations relating to the > > local system environment. The folks putting together the debian and > > other simh packages certainly messed with the makefile. > > > > - Mark > > > ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] OpenBSD on Simh VAX 3.8-1 - Segmentation fault
Hello! I agree. Last time I made my big try it was to first have to track down and build a copy of tcpdump that would build properly on Eleven. As I recall releases later then 0.8 for libpcap would in fact be needed for networking to work properly that way. On Linux of course. On Windows I simply either made use of the Minimal Cygwin project build files, and of course the tools, and installed beforehand the Winpcap library. Or install that library, and then a prebuilt binary who did do networking. And I am certainly agreeing with you regarding the job they did concerning the local customization things for Debian and its ilk. Anyway if this works I'll need to track down the right methods for shoehorning DecNet onto it. I've other items. The bigger problem is of course that of remembering which DEC OS the networking stuff ran well on Incidentally I've corrected the mispelling of the library name. And my name is exactly as spelled on the signature. The name you posted must have been an autocorrect mistake. - Gregg C Levine gregg.drw...@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:00 AM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: >> Hello! >> Gary which release of Slackware Linux was this? I've found that SIMH >> properly builds on all releases from 7.2 (Which was only released as a Snap >> Shot Disk from the time of the first shows) all the way the 14.1. >> I only needed to figure out how to update the LibCap library so that >> networking would work properly once that arrived not too long ago. As an >> aside I moved away from trying to build it here on this laptop running 14.2 >> 64bit, because networking requires a fixed connection, not WiFi. > > His issues might not have much to do with Slackware, but more to do > with the version of simh. > > The github simh code (4.x) has built easily on most systems for a very long > time. > > Simh 3.9 was reasonable as well but not as robust as the current code. > > Simh 3.8-x might have needed local customizations relating to the > local system environment. The folks putting together the debian and > other simh packages certainly messed with the makefile. > > - Mark > >> - >> Gregg C Levine gregg.drw...@gmail.com >> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Gary Lee Phillips >> wrote: >> > Thanks for the very clear answer, Mark. >> > >> > I followed your instructions and the 4.0-0 beta built in minutes. Last >> > time I tried to build Simh myself, it took several frustrating days of >> > patching the makefile and changing references. That was on Slackware >> > Linux and several versions back of both the environment and Simh. So >> > thanks ever so much to the developers who have continued to enhance and >> tune this package. >> > It is brilliantly done. >> > >> > Now the even better news. The vax3900/vax module in 4.0-0 beta does >> > not have the segmentation fault I encountered with 3.8-1. OpenBSD 5.7 >> > is able to ftp and sftp transfer in and out without any complaints. So >> > thank you again to whoever it was that found and fixed that problem. >> > >> > --Gary >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 1:50 AM, Mark Pizzolato >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Gary, >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, November 7, 2017 at 5:29 AM, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: >> >> > I am running VAX 3.8-1 on a 64-bit Linux system. It performs well >> >> > with OpenVMS as the operating system. But when I try to run it with >> >> > OpenBSD 5.7 there are issues. >> >> > >> >> > The base system installs and boots correctly. But in order to bring >> >> > in tools such as language compilers or editors, it is necessary to >> >> > use ftp or sftp. I cannot get these to transfer anything because >> >> > the moment a transfer starts, no matter which mode or direction or >> >> > whether the transfer is initiated from within OpenBSD or from the >> >> > outside, an immediate segmentation fault occurs. This appears to be >> >> > within the SimH code itself, and not on OpenBSD. >> >> >> >> That would certainly seem to be the case. Simulator crashes >> >> definitely should be fixed. 3.8-1 was released some 8 years ago, and >> >> 3.9 was some 6 years ago. Both are way behind the current code base >> >> located at https://github.com/simh/simh/ downloadable as >> >> https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip >> >> >> >> > The same SimH VAX environment running OpenVMS 7.3 can perform >> >> > transfers over ethernet without any apparent issues. >> >> >> >> This is a useful data point. >> >> >> >> > I have tried running SimH in supervisor mode or in user mode, same >> >> > results. Also same results whether the transfer is initiated by >> >> > root or by a normal user account. >> >> >> >> I wouldn't expect you to be able to run the simulator as non-root and >> >> have Ethernet functionality... >> >> >> >> > The ethernet connection itself seems to be worki
Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh
Johnny Billquist wrote: > Lars Brinkhoff wrote: >> Johnny Billquist wrote: >>> I bet that would be written in some ANSI C, for which you won't find >>> a C compiler for V7... >> GCC has a PDP-11 backend, so maybe you can cross compile it. > That would depend on if calling conventions, register conventions, > a.out format and so on are compatible between V7 and whatever format > gcc uses. Right, it depends on a lot of things. GCC says it targets BSD, unknown version. I don't know whether that's compatible with V7. There also seems to be PDP-11 backends for PCC and LCC. The former targets 2.11BSD. I mostly just wanted to point out that there may be, or might not be far from, an ANSI C compiler for V7. > Not to mention you also need all the V7 libraries where you do the > cross compile. In this case I would just copy the assembly language output file to the target system, and build it there. So not pure cross compilation. It could be that the software uses lots of definitions and calls which aren't supported in the V7 libraries. Or that it's too bloated to fit in a PDP-11. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh
On 2017-11-09 07:51, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: Johnny Billquist writes: I bet that would be written in some ANSI C, for which you won't find a C compiler for V7... GCC has a PDP-11 backend, so maybe you can cross compile it. That would depend on if calling conventions, register conventions, a.out format and so on are compatible between V7 and whatever format gcc uses. Not to mention you also need all the V7 libraries where you do the cross compile. I suspect this might be a bit much to deal with for Will... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh