Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Mark Abene]

That's great! Was this the same book by David Ahl?


On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:00 PM, Tony Nicholson  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Bryan Davies 
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> I just need to get it all in a nice neat box, connect up he VT100, and
>> download some games and things for the guests to use.
>>
>>
> Bryan (and all).
>
> I first encountered RSTS/E in 1975 on a PDP-11/45 when I was a student
> when I discovered a book "101 Basic Computer Games" with an accompanying
> DECtape.
>
> Recently I tracked down a copy of the book in PDF format and an image of
> the DECtape (that had to be fixed-up so that it was readable) on bitsavers .
>
> The book is at -
>
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/_Books/101_BASIC_Computer_Games_Mar75.pdf
>
> I now have this running on RSTS/E V10.1 and RSTS V06C-03 under SIMH -
> after some minor edits to fix changes to the Basic-Plus source file syntax
> (spaces between keywords etc).
>
> I've zipped-up the fixed DECtape image (DOS format) and an RL01 RSTS level
> 1.2 format disk image (label=GAMES) that you can copy the games from either
> and run them!
>
> The RL01 disk image is easiest (since DECtape support requires some
> fiddling and correct pdp11 unibus 18-bit model selection).
>
> In your SIMH .ini file (assuming you have sysgen'ed some RL type disks)
> you can -
>set rl enable
>set rl0 rl01
>att rl0 rl01-games.dsk
>
> Then once RSTS/E is up as a privileged user just "MOUNT DL0: GAMES" and
> look in DL0:[100,100]
>
> The zip file is https://drive.google.com/file/d/
> 1IgZkafQABxWUXeuEkeq1GjkBe3sF2Zgx/view?usp=sharing
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
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[Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Tony Nicholson]

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Bryan Davies 
wrote:

[snip]

I just need to get it all in a nice neat box, connect up he VT100, and
> download some games and things for the guests to use.
>
>
Bryan (and all).

I first encountered RSTS/E in 1975 on a PDP-11/45 when I was a student when
I discovered a book "101 Basic Computer Games" with an accompanying DECtape.

Recently I tracked down a copy of the book in PDF format and an image of
the DECtape (that had to be fixed-up so that it was readable) on bitsavers .

The book is at -

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/_Books/101_BASIC_Computer_Games_Mar75.pdf

I now have this running on RSTS/E V10.1 and RSTS V06C-03 under SIMH - after
some minor edits to fix changes to the Basic-Plus source file syntax
(spaces between keywords etc).

I've zipped-up the fixed DECtape image (DOS format) and an RL01 RSTS level
1.2 format disk image (label=GAMES) that you can copy the games from either
and run them!

The RL01 disk image is easiest (since DECtape support requires some
fiddling and correct pdp11 unibus 18-bit model selection).

In your SIMH .ini file (assuming you have sysgen'ed some RL type disks) you
can -
   set rl enable
   set rl0 rl01
   att rl0 rl01-games.dsk

Then once RSTS/E is up as a privileged user just "MOUNT DL0: GAMES" and
look in DL0:[100,100]

The zip file is
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgZkafQABxWUXeuEkeq1GjkBe3sF2Zgx/view?usp=sharing

Tony
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2018-01-23 21:18, Bryan Davies wrote:

But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?


Kermit comes in source form. Text is easier to transfer. Kermit-11 also 
exists as a binary encoded in a very simple format as text, and then you 
have a very simple decoding program which recreates the binary from that.

All available if you check in the Kermit distribution.

  Johnny



On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons 
mailto:j...@jordi.guillaumes.name>> wrote:



Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name 
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES




On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning mailto:paulkon...@comcast.net>> wrote:

SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.

There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via
paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. 
That's not as good an answer for binaries though it could be made

to work.

Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have
a program that can write disk images in a format the target OS
knows.  That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File
Exchange) program to do this.  There's an older version written in
C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For the former, look in
svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the latter, in
svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's documentation for
both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug reports,
especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)


There’s always kermit… 





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Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2018-01-23 19:13, Bryan Davies wrote:
Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much 
indistinguishable from the real thing.


Should be. :-)

I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS 
distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like 
that,  but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the 
[1,2] utilities.


[66,66] is what I remember from back in the day when I was using RSTS/E. 
But if that was "official" in any way I don't know.
You can always download lots of stuff from the internet otherwise. 
Bitsavers for example. I have lots of RSX stuff around, some of that 
should work on RSTS/E as well. And there is plenty of RT-11 stuff 
around, which should also work fine on RSTS/E.


Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting 
software?  I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK 
format in order for Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another 
way to point one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?


Kermit? DECnet?


BTW I don't really want Adventure as we have that running on a MicroVAX.


You should have both Adventure and Dungeon, of course...

And if anyone could take some time to check what is needed to get ZEMU 
running on RSTS/E, then you'd have essentially all Infocom games, as 
well as anything written in Inform.

(ZEMU works fine on RSX and RT-11 today.)

  Johnny



Rgds

Bryan

On 23 January 2018 at 17:22, khandy21yo > wrote:


Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created.
A couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

 Original message 
From: Paul Koning mailto:paulkon...@comcast.net>>
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Johnny Billquist mailto:b...@softjar.se>>
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com , Mark
Pizzolato mailto:m...@infocomm.com>>
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access



 > On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
 >
 > Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail?
Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the
simulation does?
 >
 > And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far
back as V4).

paul


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Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2018-01-23 18:22, khandy21yo wrote:
Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A 
couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?


If we're talking a PDP-11/70, three vacuum cleaners won't come close.

  Johnny



Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

 Original message 
From: Paul Koning 
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Johnny Billquist 
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com, Mark Pizzolato 
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access



 > On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
 >
 > Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also 
- with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the 
simulation does?

 >
 > And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back 
as V4).


paul


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Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bob Eager]

If you know how to handle magtapes on RSTS, you can make a tape image.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 21:43:03 +
Bryan Davies  wrote:

> That's all handy information.  When I've done it I'll make a DSK file
> so others can mount it directly into Simh.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> On 23 Jan 2018 21:39, "Christian Brunschen" 
> wrote:
> 
> > On 23 January 2018 at 21:34, Mark Abene  wrote:
> >
> >> I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you
> >> could either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an
> >> editor.
> >>
> >
> > The correct tense actually seems to be "has":
> >
> > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html
> >
> >> Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini-
> >> or microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device
> >> control to general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit
> >> programs are available for the PDP-11.
> >>
> >> *Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment
> >> Corporation PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS,
> >> P/OS, and (not a DEC OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian
> >> Nelson of the University of Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11
> >> assembly language, Macro-11. Separate programs, listed below, are
> >> available for other PDP-11 operating systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
> >>
> >> The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
> >>  in the kermit/b
> >>  subdirectory as k11*.mac,
> >> and you can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems
> >> and configurations inkermit/bin/
> >> , as k11*.tsk or k11*.sav.
> >> If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
> >> THIS . There are also
> >> various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written
> >> Macro-11, Fortran, and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with
> >> all the Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11".
> >>
> > :)
> >
> >
> >> That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.
> >>
> >
> > So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it
> > was then!
> >
> >
> >> -Mark
> >>
> >
> > // Christian
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target
> >>> machine?
> >>>
> >>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
> >>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>  j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>  HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
> 
> 
> 
>  On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning 
>  wrote:
> 
>  SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
> 
>  There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via
>  paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape
>  reader.  That's not as good an answer for binaries though it
>  could be made to work.
> 
>  Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you
>  have a program that can write disk images in a format the target
>  OS knows.  That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS
>  File Exchange) program to do this.  There's an older version
>  written in C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For the former,
>  look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the
>  latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>  documentation for both in those respective directories.
>  (Commments and bug reports, especially for the new version,
>  would be appreciated.)
> 
> 
>  There?s always kermit?
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Simh mailing list
> >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>
> >
> >

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

That's all handy information.  When I've done it I'll make a DSK file so
others can mount it directly into Simh.

Bryan

On 23 Jan 2018 21:39, "Christian Brunschen"  wrote:

> On 23 January 2018 at 21:34, Mark Abene  wrote:
>
>> I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
>> either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.
>>
>
> The correct tense actually seems to be "has":
>
> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html
>
>> Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini- or
>> microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device control to
>> general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit programs are
>> available for the PDP-11.
>>
>> *Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment Corporation
>> PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS, P/OS, and (not a DEC
>> OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian Nelson of the University of
>> Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11 assembly language, Macro-11.
>> Separate programs, listed below, are available for other PDP-11 operating
>> systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
>>
>> The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
>>  in the kermit/b
>>  subdirectory as k11*.mac, and you
>> can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems and configurations
>> inkermit/bin/ , as k11*.tsk or
>> k11*.sav. If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
>> THIS . There are also
>> various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written Macro-11,
>> Fortran, and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with all the
>> Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11".
>>
> :)
>
>
>> That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.
>>
>
> So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it was then!
>
>
>> -Mark
>>
>
> // Christian
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
>>>
>>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
>>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>>>

 Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
 j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
 HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



 On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:

 SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.

 There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
 tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
 good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.

 Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
 program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
 easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
 this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
 for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
 documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
 reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)


 There’s always kermit…

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Simh mailing list
>>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Christian Brunschen]

On 23 January 2018 at 21:34, Mark Abene  wrote:

> I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
> either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.
>

The correct tense actually seems to be "has":

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html

> Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini- or
> microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device control to
> general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit programs are
> available for the PDP-11.
>
> *Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment Corporation
> PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS, P/OS, and (not a DEC
> OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian Nelson of the University of
> Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11 assembly language, Macro-11.
> Separate programs, listed below, are available for other PDP-11 operating
> systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
>
> The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
>  in the kermit/b
>  subdirectory as k11*.mac, and you
> can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems and configurations
> inkermit/bin/ , as k11*.tsk or
> k11*.sav. If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
> THIS . There are also various
> utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written Macro-11, Fortran,
> and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with all the Kermit-11 text
> files, whose names all start with "k11".
>
:)


> That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.
>

So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it was then!


> -Mark
>

// Christian


>
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies 
> wrote:
>
>> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
>>
>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>>> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>>
>>> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>>>
>>> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
>>> tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
>>> good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>>>
>>> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
>>> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
>>> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
>>> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
>>> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
>>> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>>> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
>>> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>>>
>>>
>>> There’s always kermit…
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Mark Abene]

I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.
That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.

-Mark


On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies 
wrote:

> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
>
> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>
>>
>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>
>> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>>
>> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
>> tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
>> good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>>
>> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
>> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
>> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
>> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
>> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
>> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
>> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>>
>>
>> There’s always kermit…
>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Tim Shoppa]

In the “olden days”, by floppy, tape, or paper tape. In most cases you could 
order the media through Kermit project at Columbia University. In the case of 
PDP-11s, Sometimes rolled in with DECUS SIG tape trees.

Tim N3QE

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 3:18 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
> 
>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>> 
>>> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>>> 
>>> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper tape, 
>>> with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as good an 
>>> answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>>> 
>>> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a 
>>> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's 
>>> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do 
>>> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 
>>> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, 
>>> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's 
>>> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug 
>>> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>> 
>> There’s always kermit… 
> 
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Clem Cole]

You tried to get it from someone else for your system often
PaperTape/Floppy/MagTape as Paul described.
By many times connecting the terminal to another system and 'printing' it.
Often a glass TTY had a second 'printer port' and if you did some work, you
could type it out.  Truth is it was probably a boot strap.   You typed in
something that was a subset, maybe just a file transfer.

Many Kermits were hacks from a different one from a different version.
 This was true until ckermit appeared, which was fairly late in Kermit's
life, but was the fanciest.   Then people started to create versions of
ckermit for specific systems.  They would use the older (like functional
one) to bring over the newer one.

Clem
ᐧ

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Bryan Davies 
wrote:

> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
>
> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>
>>
>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>
>> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>>
>> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
>> tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
>> good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>>
>> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
>> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
>> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
>> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
>> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
>> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
>> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>>
>>
>> There’s always kermit…
>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?

On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons  wrote:

>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>
> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>
> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
> tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
> good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>
> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>
>
> There’s always kermit…
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
> 
> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper tape, 
> with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as good an 
> answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
> 
> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a program 
> that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's easy in 
> this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do this.  
> There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For 
> the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the 
> latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's documentation for 
> both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug reports, especially 
> for the new version, would be appreciated.)

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.

There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper tape, 
with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as good an 
answer for binaries though it could be made to work.

Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a program 
that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's easy in 
this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do this.  
There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For 
the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the 
latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's documentation for both 
in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug reports, especially for 
the new version, would be appreciated.)

paul

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Yes I've found a few, but they are mostly .sav or .bas files.
> 
> How do I get them into Simh without keying them though?
> 
> 
> 
> On 23 January 2018 at 19:18, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Jan 23, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> >
> > Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much 
> > indistinguishable from the real thing.
> >
> > I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS 
> > distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like that,  
> > but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the [1,2] 
> > utilities.
> >
> > Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software?  
> > I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for 
> > Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another way to point one of the 
> > emulated devices to a file on the host?
> 
> You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be online 
> somewhere.  I'm not sure where.  That will have assorted games as well as 
> other stuff.  For example, there's a program package called COSAP which is a 
> collection of statistical analysis tools.  That came from my alma mater, and 
> was used there particularly in sociology courses for the students to do 
> (occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey databases.  It was known 
> for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on our machine.
> 
> paul
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

Yes I've found a few, but they are mostly .sav or .bas files.

How do I get them into Simh without keying them though?



On 23 January 2018 at 19:18, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Bryan Davies 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much
> indistinguishable from the real thing.
> >
> > I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS
> distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like that,
> but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the [1,2]
> utilities.
> >
> > Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting
> software?  I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format
> in order for Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another way to point
> one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?
>
> You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be
> online somewhere.  I'm not sure where.  That will have assorted games as
> well as other stuff.  For example, there's a program package called COSAP
> which is a collection of statistical analysis tools.  That came from my
> alma mater, and was used there particularly in sociology courses for the
> students to do (occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey
> databases.  It was known for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on
> our machine.
>
> paul
>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much indistinguishable 
> from the real thing.
> 
> I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS distributions 
> came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like that,  but the V10 
> distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the [1,2] utilities.
> 
> Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software?  
> I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for 
> Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another way to point one of the 
> emulated devices to a file on the host?

You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be online 
somewhere.  I'm not sure where.  That will have assorted games as well as other 
stuff.  For example, there's a program package called COSAP which is a 
collection of statistical analysis tools.  That came from my alma mater, and 
was used there particularly in sociology courses for the students to do 
(occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey databases.  It was known 
for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on our machine.

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Brett Bump]

More likely a couple of hair dryers (set on low heat) would be better. ;-)

The air conditioning in our college science building worked so well I used
to pull the front of the 11/20 (and also the box of memory below it) out
so that it could blow the heat across my cold legs while I wrote programs
on an LA36 in my summer shorts.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018, khandy21yo wrote:


Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A couple of 
vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

 Original message 
From: Paul Koning 
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Johnny Billquist 
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com, Mark Pizzolato 
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access



> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
>
> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
>
> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much
indistinguishable from the real thing.

I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS
distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like that,
but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the [1,2]
utilities.

Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software?
I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for
Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another way to point one of the
emulated devices to a file on the host?

BTW I don't really want Adventure as we have that running on a MicroVAX.

Rgds

Bryan

On 23 January 2018 at 17:22, khandy21yo  wrote:

> Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A
> couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>
>  Original message 
> From: Paul Koning 
> Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: Johnny Billquist 
> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com, Mark Pizzolato 
> Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access
>
>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> >
> > Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also -
> with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation
> does?
> >
> > And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?
>
> Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as
> V4).
>
> paul
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[khandy21yo]

Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A couple of 
vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Paul Koning  
Date: 1/23/18  7:46 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: Johnny Billquist  Cc: 
simh@trailing-edge.com, Mark Pizzolato  Subject: Re: [Simh] 
PDP11 on Simh for public access 


> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
> regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
> 
> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



> On 23 Jan 2018, at 15:46, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
>> 
>> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
>> regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
>> 
>> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?
> 
> Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as 
> V4).


Can confirm that. BITXOT is running 24x7 and idles nicely.

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Mark Pizzolato]

Johnny asks:

> Do you know what the problem was in detail? 

Bryan answered:

> I think my problem was that I had put my EXPECT commands after 
> the boot (where they occur in the start dialogue) but they need to be 
> set up beforehand.

Absolutely true.  When using simh’s EXPECT & SEND you’ve got to 
declare the prompts you want to match before the simulated system is
running so the simulation framework has a clue what you want to 
achieve.

Additionally, as I said before:

> When using EXPECT commands, you have to PRECISELY specify what is 
> being matched.  There is a difference between “” and “ “.

Previously his EXPECT command had:

EXPECT "Proceed with system startup? "

While the correct match string has:

EXPECT "Proceed with system startup?  "

- Mark
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
> regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
> 
> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

I think my problem was that I had put my EXPECT commands after the boot
(where they occur in the start dialogue) but they need to be set up
beforehand.

Also the revised .ini file now has the EXPECT/SEND/CONTINUE all on a single
line.

I've now added set cpu idle and that seems to cure the processor racing
issue.

I just need to get it all in a nice neat box, connect up he VT100, and
download some games and things for the guests to use.

Thanks again to all.

Bryan.

On 23 January 2018 at 10:55, Johnny Billquist  wrote:

> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also -
> with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation
> does?
>
> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?
>
> Johnny
>
>
> Bryan Davies  skrev: (23 januari 2018 10:32:31
> CET)
>
>> It works!  Many thanks to all who have assisted.
>>
>> I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
>> startup prompts.
>>
>> Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed
>> it.
>>
>> My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU.  The
>> Raspberry Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the
>> simulated OS isn't 'doing' anything.  But it is nevertheless good enough
>> for display purposes.  I will be installing it at http://www.
>> computinghistory.org.uk/  tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation
>> will be able to see how computing was in the 'olden days'.
>>
>>
>> Regards to all,
>>
>> Bryan.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 January 2018 at 20:01, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark Pizzolato  wrote:
>>>
>>> The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Mark.
>>>
>>> Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a
>>> modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original.  I thought that
>>> the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes
>>> "only in part".  The change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing"
>>> prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it into
>>> the official release.
>>>
>>> So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use
>>> a modified init.sys.  I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
>>>
>>> paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Skickat från min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Ursäkta min fåordighet.
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?

And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

  Johnny 


Bryan Davies  skrev: (23 januari 2018 10:32:31 CET)
>It works!  Many thanks to all who have assisted.
>
>I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
>startup prompts.
>
>Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed
>it.
>
>My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU.  The
>Raspberry
>Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the simulated OS
>isn't
>'doing' anything.  But it is nevertheless good enough for display
>purposes.  I will be installing it at
>http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/
>tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation will be able to see how
>computing was in the 'olden days'.
>
>
>Regards to all,
>
>Bryan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 22 January 2018 at 20:01, Paul Koning 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark Pizzolato 
>wrote:
>>
>> The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Mark.
>>
>> Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up
>a
>> modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original.  I thought
>that
>> the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer
>yes
>> "only in part".  The change to add a timeout on the "start
>timesharing"
>> prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it
>into
>> the official release.
>>
>> So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to
>use a
>> modified init.sys.  I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

It works!  Many thanks to all who have assisted.

I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
startup prompts.

Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed it.

My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU.  The Raspberry
Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the simulated OS isn't
'doing' anything.  But it is nevertheless good enough for display
purposes.  I will be installing it at http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/
tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation will be able to see how
computing was in the 'olden days'.


Regards to all,

Bryan.















On 22 January 2018 at 20:01, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
>
> On Jan 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark Pizzolato  wrote:
>
> The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
>
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a
> modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original.  I thought that
> the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes
> "only in part".  The change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing"
> prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it into
> the official release.
>
> So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use a
> modified init.sys.  I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
>
> paul
>
>
>
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