Re: [singularity] Wrong focus?
On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:43 AM, Mike Tintner wrote: Stathis: Are you simply arguing that an embodied AI that can interact with the real world will find it easier to learn and develop, or are you arguing that there is a fundamental reason why an AI can't develop in a purely virtual environment? The latter. I'm arguing that a disembodied AGI has as much chance of getting to know, understand and be intelligent about the world as Tommy - a deaf, dumb and blind and generally sense-less kid, that's totally autistic, can't play any physical game let alone a mean pin ball, and has a seriously impaired sense of self , (what's the name for that condition?) - and all that is even if the AGI *has* sensors. So what is your point leading to? What do you want to do about it or have others do about it? Do you have anything new to say on this subject. Your argument seems to be getting quite repetitive and imho overplayed. - samantha - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=92965253-03da8e
Re: [singularity] Multi-Multi-....-Multiverse
WTF does this have to do with AGI or Singularity? I hope the AGI gets here soon. We Stupid Monkeys get damn tiresome. - samantha On Jan 29, 2008, at 7:06 AM, gifting wrote: On 29 Jan 2008, at 14:13, Vladimir Nesov wrote: On Jan 29, 2008 11:49 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, but why can't they all be dumped in a single 'normal' multiverse? If traveling between them is accommodated by 'decisions', there is a finite number of them for any given time, so it shouldn't pose structural problems. The whacko, speculative SF hypothesis is that lateral movement btw Yverses is conducted according to ordinary laws of physics, whereas vertical movement btw Yverses is conducted via extraphysical psychic actions ;-)' What differentiates psychic actions from non-psychic so that they can't be considered ordinary? If I can do both, why aren't they both equally ordinary to me (and everyone else)?.. Is a psychic action telepathy, for example? If I am a schizophrenic and hear voices, is this a psychic experience? What is a psychic action FOR YOU, or in your set of definitions? Do you propose that you are able of psychic actions within a set frame of definitions or do you experience psychic actions and redefine your environment because of this? Or is it all in the mind? Isn't it only ordinary, if experienced repetitively . Gudrun -- Vladimir Nesov mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?-3ffb4f - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?; - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=92965434-81f3fd
Re: [singularity] Multi-Multi-....-Multiverse
WTF (I can only assume what that stands for) are you such an angry person. Or is linear thinking the only possible solution for your VotW (guess what that stands for)? Never heard of rhizome (theory). Sometimes stupid monkey things for stupid monkeys like all of us and you are not that bad at all. Talking about AGI (or strong AI or whatever it is called), there are many roads to Rome. There is enough space for AGI (and not all people think the same about it) on this thread, or so I would hope. Don't forget that many ideas, possibly singularity too, have their roots in Science Fiction. A bit of fantasizing should be allowed!! Gudrun On 2 Feb 2008, at 08:54, Samantha Atkins wrote: WTF does this have to do with AGI or Singularity? I hope the AGI gets here soon. We Stupid Monkeys get damn tiresome. - samantha On Jan 29, 2008, at 7:06 AM, gifting wrote: On 29 Jan 2008, at 14:13, Vladimir Nesov wrote: On Jan 29, 2008 11:49 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, but why can't they all be dumped in a single 'normal' multiverse? If traveling between them is accommodated by 'decisions', there is a finite number of them for any given time, so it shouldn't pose structural problems. The whacko, speculative SF hypothesis is that lateral movement btw Yverses is conducted according to ordinary laws of physics, whereas vertical movement btw Yverses is conducted via extraphysical psychic actions ;-)' What differentiates psychic actions from non-psychic so that they can't be considered ordinary? If I can do both, why aren't they both equally ordinary to me (and everyone else)?.. Is a psychic action telepathy, for example? If I am a schizophrenic and hear voices, is this a psychic experience? What is a psychic action FOR YOU, or in your set of definitions? Do you propose that you are able of psychic actions within a set frame of definitions or do you experience psychic actions and redefine your environment because of this? Or is it all in the mind? Isn't it only ordinary, if experienced repetitively . Gudrun -- Vladimir Nesov mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?-3ffb4f - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?; - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?; d09758 - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=92987600-02e3ac
Re: [singularity] Multi-Multi-....-Multiverse
Hi, Just a contextualizing note: this is the Singularity list not the AGI list so the scope of appropriate discussion is not so restricted. In my view, whacky models of the universe are at least moderately relevant to Singularity. After the Singularity, we are almost sure to discover that our current model of the universe is in many ways wrong ... it seems interesting to me to speculate about what a broader, richer, deeper model might look like -- Ben Goertzel (list owner, plus the guy who started this thread ;-) On Feb 2, 2008 3:54 AM, Samantha Atkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WTF does this have to do with AGI or Singularity? I hope the AGI gets here soon. We Stupid Monkeys get damn tiresome. - samantha On Jan 29, 2008, at 7:06 AM, gifting wrote: On 29 Jan 2008, at 14:13, Vladimir Nesov wrote: On Jan 29, 2008 11:49 AM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, but why can't they all be dumped in a single 'normal' multiverse? If traveling between them is accommodated by 'decisions', there is a finite number of them for any given time, so it shouldn't pose structural problems. The whacko, speculative SF hypothesis is that lateral movement btw Yverses is conducted according to ordinary laws of physics, whereas vertical movement btw Yverses is conducted via extraphysical psychic actions ;-)' What differentiates psychic actions from non-psychic so that they can't be considered ordinary? If I can do both, why aren't they both equally ordinary to me (and everyone else)?.. Is a psychic action telepathy, for example? If I am a schizophrenic and hear voices, is this a psychic experience? What is a psychic action FOR YOU, or in your set of definitions? Do you propose that you are able of psychic actions within a set frame of definitions or do you experience psychic actions and redefine your environment because of this? Or is it all in the mind? Isn't it only ordinary, if experienced repetitively . Gudrun -- Vladimir Nesov mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?-3ffb4f - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?; - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?; -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=92990369-76f3f1
Re: [singularity] Multi-Multi-....-Multiverse
On Saturday 02 February 2008, Samantha Atkins wrote: I am not angry. I am bored with what seems like endless often off subject prattling going nowhere. Then go build something? - Bryan Bryan Bishop http://heybryan.org/ - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=93013637-fdacf1
Re: [singularity] MindForth achieves True AI functionality
I noticed that the members of the list have completely ignored this pronouncement by A.T. Murray. Is there a reason for this (for example is this person considered fringe or worse)? Eric B. Ramsay A. T. Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MindForth free open AI source code on-line at http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html has become a True AI-Complete thinking mind after years of tweaking and debugging. On 22 January 2008 the AI Forthmind began to think effortlessly and almost flawlessly in loops of meandering chains of thought. Users are invited to download the AI Mind and decide for themselves if what they see is machine intelligence and thinking. The http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/m4thuser.html User Manual explains all the steps involved. MindForth is the Model-T of True AI software, roughly comparable to the state of the art in automobiles one hundred years ago in 1908. As such, the AI in Forth will not blow you away with any advanced features, but will subtly show you the most primitive display of spreading activation among concepts. The world's first publicly available True AI achieves meandering chains of thought by detouring away from incomplete ideas lacking knowledge-base data and by asking questions of the human user when the AI is unable to complete a sentence of thought. The original MindForth program has spawned http://AIMind-I.com as the first offspring in the evolution of artificial intelligence. ATM/Mentifex -- http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26 http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html http://onsingularity.com/user/mentifex - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?; - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=93036941-9e51d0
Re: [singularity] MindForth achieves True AI functionality
On Feb 2, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Eric B. Ramsay wrote: I noticed that the members of the list have completely ignored this pronouncement by A.T. Murray. Is there a reason for this (for example is this person considered fringe or worse)? Bingo. J. Andrew Rogers - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=93037399-c1702e
Re: [singularity] MindForth achieves True AI functionality
Eric B. Ramsay wrote: I noticed that the members of the list have completely ignored this pronouncement by A.T. Murray. Is there a reason for this (for example is this person considered fringe or worse)? Being as generous as I can to Arthur (as I did recently on the AGI list) his pronouncements about Mentifex may be sincere, but his estimates of its capabilities are somewhat ... exaggerated. Richard Loosemore - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604id_secret=93038966-0d8c10
