Re: [SLUG] editing users' home path, is that a 'GI' ?
** Reply to note from Mike MacCana [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:25:35 +1100 no public access, I need to allow 2 or 3 users upload to a particular (web) directory , rather that, their home dir, (and, me needing to unarchive/copy from their home dir) What OS do the clients use? windoze Voytek Eymont -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] MS to charge for FAT file system
quote who=John Clarke Why do you think your vendor will charge you for the format of their media? Because http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp says: That's covered too: These are nice points of view from Microsoft, but they don't really answer the question - why would *vendors* do it at all? :-) Overturning patents is a very common occurance, and even so, what exactly are Microsoft selling here? Hot air? The idea of storing bits in a certain pattern? I don't think this will get very far. :-) But it is a good opportunity for people to wet their pants in public in the mean time. ;-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia http://lca2004.linux.org.au/ Well, it's harder to find the ashtrays. - Tom Waits on the effects of fatherhood on songwriting -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] MS to charge for FAT file system
On Wed Dec 10, 2003 at 16:51:55 +1100, John Clarke wrote: On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 04:42:33PM +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Kevin Waterson Do I get $0.25 refund if I format my flash card as ext2? Why do you think your vendor will charge you for the format of their media? Because http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp says: A license for removable solid state media manufacturers to preformat the media, such as compact flash memory cards, to the Microsoft FAT file system format, and to preload data onto such preformatted media using the Microsoft FAT file system format. Pricing for this license is US$0.25 per unit with a cap on total royalties of $250,000 per manufacturer. Surely these companis spew out a lot more than 1,000,000 cards so the price to the consumer would be less than .25USc per card *anyway*. /me wonders if floppy disc manufacturers are going to be hit by this as well. Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] ip_nat_irc
here's a copy of my iptables rules, the next post will contain my tcpdump output. the machine I'm sending for is the smoothwall machine. it's the one doing nat -- Shaun Oliver I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/ IRC: irc.awesomechat.net: IRCNICK: blindman Chain INPUT (policy DROP) target prot opt source destination ipac~o all -- anywhere anywhere ipblockall -- anywhere anywhere ipblockall -- anywhere anywhere advnet all -- anywhere anywhere advnet all -- anywhere anywhere spoof all -- anywhere anywhere spoof all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere secin all -- anywhere anywhere block all -- anywhere anywhere LOGall -- anywhere anywhere LOG level warning REJECT all -- anywhere anywhere reject-with icmp-port-unreachable Chain FORWARD (policy DROP) target prot opt source destination ipac~fiall -- anywhere anywhere ipac~foall -- anywhere anywhere ipblockall -- anywhere anywhere ipblockall -- anywhere anywhere secout all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state NEW ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state NEW portfwfall -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere LOGall -- anywhere anywhere LOG level warning REJECT all -- anywhere anywhere reject-with icmp-port-unreachable Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination ipac~i all -- anywhere anywhere Chain advnet (2 references) target prot opt source destination Chain block (1 references) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere xtaccess all -- anywhere anywhere ipsec all -- anywhere anywhere ipsec all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT icmp -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT icmp -- anywhere anywhere Chain dmzholes (0 references) target prot opt source destination Chain ipac~fi (1 references) target prot opt source destination all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere Chain ipac~fo (1 references) target prot opt source destination all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere Chain ipac~i (1 references) target prot opt source destination all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere Chain ipac~o (1 references) target prot opt source destination all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere all -- anywhere anywhere Chain ipblock (4 references) target prot opt source destination Chain ipsec (2 references) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:isakmp ACCEPT gre -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT ipv6-crypt-- anywhere anywhere Chain portfwf (1 references) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT udp --
Re: [SLUG] Use this patch immediately !
Ok so who's using windows and got infected? Dear friend , use this Internet Explorer patch now! There are dangerous virus in the Internet now! More than 500.000 already infected! __ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- Regards, Kevin Saenz Spinaweb I.T consultants Ph: 02 4620 5130 Fax: 02 4625 9243 Mobile: 0418455661 Web: http://www.spinaweb.com.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Linux Conf Adelaide - LPI Exam anyone?
So I'm registered and rearing to go! I also thought I'd take the opprtunity to do the LPI 101 exam so I signed up for that too. Is anyone else planning on doing it too? It may be useful to keep in touch or just commiserate! I'm now living in Brisbane so will be heading over from here but I'd like to catch up with some sluggers over there... -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] MS to charge for FAT file system
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 05:38:33AM +1100, Kevin Waterson wrote: MS is set to begin charging a license fee for FAT file system FAT is used by camera manufacturers and more importantly is used on Compact Flash cards used by digital cameras. Don't know why. It's utterly shite for flash memory, since FAT keeps hammering the same sections of the device, and flash has a limited number of write cycles before it dies. JFFS2 is much nicer, I'm told. At any rate, I can see a lot of companies rolling over and paying up. Pity. What if they used some other internal format (such as JFFS2) but merely presented this as a FAT system in a backwards compatability mode would that not get around the licensing issue? http://www.dpreview.com/news/0312/03120403microsoftisfat.asp Yeah, and they smell too. grin It was that part of the URL that made me think I'd time warped to April 1st. -- ---GRiP--- Electronic Hobbyist, Former Arcadia BBS nut, Occasional nudist, Linux Guru, SLUG/AUUG/Linux Australia member, Sydney Flashmobber, BMX rider, Walker, Raver rave music lover, Big kid that refuses to grow up. I'd make a good family pet, take me home today! Do people actually read these things? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] MS to charge for FAT file system
On Wed Dec 10, 2003 at 11:16:22 +1100, Peter Hardy wrote: On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 10:56, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 05:38:33AM +1100, Kevin Waterson wrote: MS is set to begin charging a license fee for FAT file system FAT is used by camera manufacturers and more importantly is used on Compact Flash cards used by digital cameras. Don't know why. It's utterly shite for flash memory, since FAT keeps hammering the same sections of the device, and flash has a limited number of write cycles before it dies. JFFS2 is much nicer, I'm told. Because FAT is ubiqituous. How does a hardware manufacturer like Canon go about making Windows support a new filesystem? A tiny little part of me hopes that the hardware manufacturers do pony up, because otherwise they'll most likely be resorting to dodgy proprietary means of reading and writing to their storage, which will become a huge bugger if you want to use an operating system they don't support. Perhaps more importantly, what does this licencing mean to Free FAT implementations, like the the ones in Linux and *BSD? If they're somehow exempt, why don't all the camera manufacturers start using a BSD licenced one? :-) They probably already are! Of course like I've mentioned before the patents only cover the long file name extensions to FAT, and the cameras I've used all seem to use 8.3 anyway. So more likely if the patent thing *does* become an issue camera manufacturers will just use 8.3 filenames. Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] rpm vs source problem
Quite often I find I have to un-install stuff I'm not using because it's easier than satisfying all the dependencies. What else you're missing is the 'Upgrade' option. EG package x depends on y and you've also got y-devel. rpm -Uvh y-newversion y-devel-newversion - these can be 'binary' packages. With the db stuff, I believe you can install a few different things for compatability. On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Simon Bryan wrote: Hi all, Am still working away at my problems (now I know what recursion means!) How do I solve this: Started to build the openldap rpm from a source rpm, failed due to dependencies. One of those dependencies (but the problem is with them all) is db-devel needs to be 4.2.5, which of cours is available as a RH9 or even a src rpm. The source is available and I installed from that (forgot to check whether it had been installed previously from rpm) - when I did check the rpm manager there is an older version, now if I wnat to uninstall that I will break dependencies on a large number of other files, and at the moment the system can't find my new db files. The only solution I can see is to uninstall everything that is dependent on the old files, install the new ones and then re-install the programs deleted previously (some I probably don't need). This could be very tedious - is there another way? -- ---GRiP--- Electronic Hobbyist, Former Arcadia BBS nut, Occasional nudist, Linux Guru, SLUG/AUUG/Linux Australia member, Sydney Flashmobber, BMX rider, Walker, Raver rave music lover, Big kid that refuses to grow up. I'd make a good family pet, take me home today! Do people actually read these things? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] ispell trick
At Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:29:15 +1100, Ken Foskey wrote: I am working on some doco on programming languages in tex. There is a lot of words specific for that particular language and I don't want it polluting my personal list and I ouwld like the checks consistent for others to keep it easy. when using emacs/AUCTeX+ispell.el, ignoring words for this session adds the words to the end of the tex file in a % Local words comment block. I have no idea if detecting/using this list is an ispell feature, or ispell.el massages it somehow first. -- - Gus -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] find crapping itself
Okay, this has bothered me for ages and I'm finally asking if anyone can
explain why does find sometimes crap itself over certain paths. eg
find /opt/spool/smtpd/spam -name smtpd00*
find: paths must preceed expressions
I usally do some work acound. I think it requires me to move to another
directory (long time no use).
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing
People without trees are like fish without clean water
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] find crapping itself
On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 12:43:25 +1100, Terry Collins wrote: find /opt/spool/smtpd/spam -name smtpd00* find: paths must preceed expressions There are at least two files matching 'smtpd00*' in your current directory and your shell is expanding the wildcard. *Always* escape or quote wildcards when passing them as arguments to a program. The shell will only pass them unchanged if it can't find a match. Try: find /opt/spool/smtpd/spam -name smtpd00\* Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG key id: 0xD59C360F http://kirriwa.net/john/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Reboot-on-Lan?
Sluggers, This is kinda off-topic but I'd like to be able to remotely shutdown / reboot a PC from a Linux server (there see it's back on topic now:) but without necessarily having to know what OS it's running or to log-on to it. I've checked out wake-on-lan and etherwake.c which is ok if the box is powered off and kinda the sort of solution I'm looking for. This gives me an automagic power-up of all PC's in a classroom type senario, but what about an automagic power-down / reboot? Thanks P. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] find crapping itself
On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 01:17:36 +1100, Benno wrote: On Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 12:55:46 +1100, John Clarke wrote: The shell will only pass them unchanged if it can't find a match. And some shells (like my zsh setup) don't even do that. What does it do instead? Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG key id: 0xD59C360F http://kirriwa.net/john/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] find crapping itself
On Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 13:27:33 +1100, John Clarke wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 01:17:36 +1100, Benno wrote: On Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 12:55:46 +1100, John Clarke wrote: The shell will only pass them unchanged if it can't find a match. And some shells (like my zsh setup) don't even do that. What does it do instead? wagner:/home/disy/lib/BibTeX% ls *foo zsh: no matches found: *foo Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] find crapping itself
quote who=John Clarke On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 01:17:36 +1100, Benno wrote: On Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 12:55:46 +1100, John Clarke wrote: The shell will only pass them unchanged if it can't find a match. And some shells (like my zsh setup) don't even do that. What does it do instead? Being zsh, it notices that there are no files which match the wildcard, and (because you are passing the argument to a find command), automatically googles for other _similar_ find commands executed by other people. If it finds one, it tries that. If not, it pops onto IRC and asks the #slug crowd what might be going wrong and waits for an answer. ;-) J. -- Jan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] stibbons Yeah. The whole climax thing would make much more sense if I'd paid attention. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] ACT passes open source bill
Huzzah! http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/11/1071086176162.html The bill says that public bodies should, as far as practicable, consider the use of open source software when procuring computer software. It also specifies that public bodies should not use software that does not comply with open standards or standards recognised by the ISO or software for which support or maintenance is provided only by an entity that has the right to exercise exclusive control over its sale or distribution. As far as defining open standards goes, the bill says, software does not comply with open standards unless the specifications for data representations used by the software (including, for example, file formats for data storage, transmission and network protocols) are completely and accurately documented and available to the public for use, application or review without restriction. NSW next, shall we? J. -- Jan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] stibbons Yeah. The whole climax thing would make much more sense if I'd paid attention. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] ACT passes open source bill
On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 14:26, Jan Schmidt wrote: Huzzah! http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/11/1071086176162.html The bill says that public bodies should, as far as practicable, consider the use of open source software when procuring computer software. What's Open Source? People who know define open source correctly as software that meets the Open Source definition. But a lot of people, including a good portion of Linux users (maybe even most) have no idea what Open Source means other some vague notion that it can be $free to acquire and comes with source code. This can include not Open Source software such as QMail, Windows, or Pine. Mike -- __ Mike MacCana ConsultantRHCX, MCSE, MCP+I Cybersource: Providing Quality IT Professional Services for 11 Years Specialists in Unix/Linux, TCP/IP and Web Application Development Level 4, 10 Queen St, Melbourne. Ph : 03 9621 2377 Fax: 03 9621 2477 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Educational tools and contacts
Hey everyone, I got a mail from the online coordinator for Macquarie University Postragraduate Professional Development Programs who wants to find out two things from SLUG: - the range of educational tools Linux has on offer - people who know about educational tools on Linux I know nothing about this, so if people can offer suggestions (or themselves as a contact), could you mail me offlist and I'll pass your names onto him. Thanks, Mary -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
B. From: Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:36:51 +1100 To: SLUG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives quote who=Mike MacCana But a lot of people, including a good portion of Linux users (maybe even most) have no idea what Open Source means other some vague notion that it can be $free to acquire and comes with source code. This can include not Open Source software such as QMail, Windows, or Pine. Here's a question I've been asking a lot of people recently. Which do you care *more* about: a) An alternative to Windows b) Access to source code c) The ideal of continuing software freedom Discuss. ;-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia http://lca2004.linux.org.au/ Socks for the foot menu! - Liam Quin -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
On Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 16:36:51 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Mike MacCana But a lot of people, including a good portion of Linux users (maybe even most) have no idea what Open Source means other some vague notion that it can be $free to acquire and comes with source code. This can include not Open Source software such as QMail, Windows, or Pine. Here's a question I've been asking a lot of people recently. Which do you care *more* about: a) An alternative to Windows Well there is more to free software than an operating system. There is plenty of free software for Windows. But proprietary software isn't all bad. b) Access to source code This is it for me. Of course proprietary software can also have source code availability. c) The ideal of continuing software freedom Don't really care that much. I much prefer the BSD style license that provides *real* freedom. OK, i guess I do care, it just depends on what you call software freedom. I don't think `all code must be free'. I do believe freedom in as far as you can code whatever you want and release it under whatever license you want. d) Free as in beer Yes. Discuss. ;-) s/discuss/troll/ ? :) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Mike MacCana But a lot of people, including a good portion of Linux users (maybe even most) have no idea what Open Source means other some vague notion that it can be $free to acquire and comes with source code. This can include not Open Source software such as QMail, Windows, or Pine. Here's a question I've been asking a lot of people recently. Which do you care *more* about: a) An alternative to Windows b) Access to source code c) The ideal of continuing software freedom I choose C Access to source code may be of little use if it is subjected to restrictions on *how* it is used. Acess to source alone does not make one 'free' in th sense of being in control of how you can use, enhance or derive from that software. The ideal of continuing software freedom rides on access to source code and so I think that B is a nessessary condition to realise C and implicit in the ideal. Therefore I choose C Mike -- Mike Lake Caver, Linux enthusiast and interested in anything technical. UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F DISCLAIMER This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views the University of Technology Sydney. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
quote who=Jeff Waugh a) An alternative to Windows b) Access to source code b2) Ability to freely read, modify and distribute source (+ binaries) c) The ideal of continuing software freedom (Just adding that one in.) - Jeff -- Come to gnome.conf.au 2004! http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2004/gnome.conf.au/ I don't know whose brain child it was, but it was quite an ugly child. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
On Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 16:57:02 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Jeff Waugh a) An alternative to Windows b) Access to source code Just to clarify my choice is b) not b2) I care *more* about reading code to find bugs, and being able to make my own modifications, but care less about distribution of any changes. (This is a matter of degrees of course, the other is nice too, but not as important imho) b2) Ability to freely read, modify and distribute source (+ binaries) c) The ideal of continuing software freedom (Just adding that one in.) - Jeff -- Come to gnome.conf.au 2004! http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2004/gnome.conf.au/ I don't know whose brain child it was, but it was quite an ugly child. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 16:36, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Mike MacCana But a lot of people, including a good portion of Linux users (maybe even most) have no idea what Open Source means other some vague notion that it can be $free to acquire and comes with source code. This can include not Open Source software such as QMail, Windows, or Pine. Here's a question I've been asking a lot of people recently. Which do you care *more* about: a) An alternative to Windows b) Access to source code c) The ideal of continuing software freedom Discuss. ;-) In the context of the ACT initiative (which is, I think, where this started): d) open standards for the storage of public documents - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia http://lca2004.linux.org.au/ Socks for the foot menu! - Liam Quin -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug -- -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: +61 2 4782 2670 Mobile: +61 405 084 990 Fax: +61 2 4782 7092 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
B2/C... Coz it makes it possible for good quality, free (as in beer) software to be available I guess that's B3... or is it C2?... Anyway, all of what makes it possible for good quality, free (a$ in beer) software! C... When wearing my 'ideal world' hat. Edd. ~~~ Im online, therefore I am! ~~~ Original Message Follows From: Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: SLUG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:57:02 +1100 quote who=Jeff Waugh a) An alternative to Windows b) Access to source code b2) Ability to freely read, modify and distribute source (+ binaries) c) The ideal of continuing software freedom (Just adding that one in.) - Jeff -- Come to gnome.conf.au 2004! http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2004/gnome.conf.au/ I don't know whose brain child it was, but it was quite an ugly child. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug _ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Mike MacCana But a lot of people, including a good portion of Linux users (maybe even most) have no idea what Open Source means other some vague notion that it can be $free to acquire and comes with source code. This can include not Open Source software such as QMail, Windows, or Pine. Here's a question I've been asking a lot of people recently. Which do you care *more* about: a) An alternative to Windows b) Access to source code c) The ideal of continuing software freedom Discuss. ;-) There have always been plenty of alternatives to Windows, and there still are, just not all OSS, so I think it's more important to have an Open Source/Free software OS for whatever the cheap hardware of the day is. If there had been a huge free software movement based on software for OS/2 or BeOS or AmigaOS (well, there was, kind of..), it would be practically dead today, thanks to the companies that owned the copyrights on the OS. Even if we could have read the source code for these OSes, it would still be dead without the right to reuse it. (I wonder if IBM ever thought about open-sourcing OS/2?) So, I don't think you can ever really have c without b or a (where Windows == proprietary OSes). Felix -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Freedom and Alternatives
quote who=Alan L Tyree In the context of the ACT initiative (which is, I think, where this started): d) open standards for the storage of public documents Yeah, this is a valid point (but it applies to formats, protocols and other things), and you can provide this with proprietary or Free software. I was mainly interested in finding out SLUG's current perspectives on software freedom. It seems to have changed somewhat. - Jeff -- GVADEC 2004: Kristiansand, Norwayhttp://2004.guadec.org/ The implementation of any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from pr0n. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
