Re: [SLUG] Linux and other software made in India... and lessons we can't understand...
2008/7/18 Shakthi Kannan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi, > > --- On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 6:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > | Industry and Government work very hand in hand... > | > | in India it is even more so and what I was saying was that it has got > | them somewhere... > \-- > > The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence ... or the ocean. I'll save you reading ALL of the text in that link (http://www.smedg.org.au/DougAdamsOnOz.html) and just quote the relevant part: "Alone of all the races on earth, they seem to be free from the 'Grass is Greener on the other side of the fence' syndrome, and roundly proclaim that Australia is, in fact, the other side of that fence. They call the land "Oz", "Godzone" (a verbal contraction of "God's Own Country") and "Best bloody place on earth, bar none, strewth." The irritating thing about this is they may be right." I like his writing :) > > The reason behind using FOSS is mostly for cost cutting solutions > rather than 'software freedom'. There are still challenges. Let me give you an example from last week - I've been wasting a week trying to install Windows 2003 Server as a Xen guest on our remotely hosted CentOS 5 severs (as a background job). The problem wasn't the uploading of huge images, the configuration of the Xen HVM guest or even getting it to run, but simply that it won't accept any of the licenses we have! We are subscribed both to the "Action Pack" and MSDN which are some sort of "Partner Programs", whatever that means. Calling Microsoft support resulted with a few insights given to me by their support: 1. "I'm not a support guy - I just here for basic stuff". (or something like this) 2. "Your license is valid and is the right one for the image you are trying to install. I don't know why it isn't accepted". 3. "You'll have to pay us $390 in order to talk to someone who might be able to help you". 4. "You can go to TechNet, it's a public forum where people might help you out with the problem". WHAT?? And there are still people who walk around saying that open source's biggest disadvantage is that it isn't supported by anyone??? Give me a break. We ended up ordering a separate box to run this server - now it's the hosts' problem to get Windows running on it (but I also included a $US30/month KVM card so I can try to handle Windows non-booting by myself). Thank god there are plans to get rid of Windows altogether at some stage. Cheers, --Amos -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux and other software made in India... and lessons we can't understand...
Quoting Shakthi Kannan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi, --- On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 6:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | Industry and Government work very hand in hand... | | in India it is even more so and what I was saying was that it has got | them somewhere... \-- The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence ... or the ocean. :-) I wasn't trying to imply that... It's not so bad here - footpaths are smooth to walk on - no funny smells everywhere - no need to be careful about what food you eat and no scoldings... :-) so that wasn't my point - rather that a lot of Australians are pushed off overseas, even by Government IT policy... never to return... We even have people working in our Government to get Australians one-way tickets to overseas to work. To me, I think that is wrong. In India, very different. If you go off to the States or Europe and come back, you get some sort of god status. But here in Australia... it is totally the opposite... going off overseas and coming back get's you the equivilent to leppar status... That is why I admire that part of Indian technology philosphy. The reason behind using FOSS is mostly for cost cutting solutions rather than 'software freedom'. There are still challenges. http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Challenges True. But I think there are some fundimental differences between Indian and Western society in there. I'm not an academic, so I can't pull that sort of stuff apart and give you some nice short answer. However, open-source doesn't always mean totally free. Free software is something (imho) entirely different to open-source. The point behind open source can be honesty, ie we show you our source because we have nothing to hide. But then that might lead to paid services or add in products at additional cost. So it can be just a marketing mechanism... One point I liked from the link was about Indian workers only wanting to be paid. Of course we have that here too. Good open source projects always have either money coming in to pay for programming... or are done as some sort of communal hobby arrangement. That is the difficult part behind open-source.. making it commercial. Here it is a little bit easier because people do value good work and in theory don't mind paying for it. Reality of course is somewhat different but that is another story :-) Regards David -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux and other software made in India... and lessons we can't understand...
Hi, --- On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 6:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | Industry and Government work very hand in hand... | | in India it is even more so and what I was saying was that it has got | them somewhere... \-- The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence ... or the ocean. The reason behind using FOSS is mostly for cost cutting solutions rather than 'software freedom'. There are still challenges. http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Challenges Regards, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux and other software made in India... and lessons we can't understand...
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > but you gotta give it to them, they have done wonders with software > and computers... You really may be surprised if you saw where Australians ended up in technology companies. > such a pity our political leaders aren't actually smart enough to > figure out how they have done it but they don't mind spending our > hard earned money on some wining and dining and partying to try to > figure it out Damn those politicians. Its obviously their fault and not the fault of the people who elected them in the first place! Adrian -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux and other software made in India... and lessons we can't understand...
Quoting Richard Ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: but you gotta give it to them, they have done wonders with software and computers... Okay .. fine :) such a pity our political leaders aren't actually smart enough to figure out how they have done it but they don't mind spending our hard earned money on some wining and dining and partying to try to figure it out Sounds like Mr Brown ... better get back to some Linux now ... Hey.. don't get me wrong... I'm all into the dining and partying anywhere in the world I find myself at the time I'm actually more guilty than most... and I make no apologies for it :-) Actually my point is that more Australians should do it... and work together way more than we have in the past I really admire the way the British Government works hand in hand with British Industry. They'll go drinking together and have pissups anywhere unashamed does our Government work the same way with Australian Industry ? I don't think so.. Same with the Germans... Industry and Government work very hand in hand... in India it is even more so and what I was saying was that it has got them somewhere... so who are the drinking partners of *our* political leaders - it's usually none of us. But put me to the test try to get a meeting about Australian Linux with the NSW GCIO... Government Chief Information Office Chances are you'll be bounced over to another office then back... then around. come on... facts are NSW Government has no interest in local Linux... Ever listened to British Government people talk about how proud they are that Ubuntu is London based ? Fact is - if Australian business offered the same number of glasses of champagne that Australian Government officials received abroad - we'd be locked up by ICAC for the rest of our lives So yes - work on Linux - good idea. But be very careful about how you do it in Australia. Because how it is done in other countries will run you the risk of some serious jail time here in Australia... Compared to Bangalore, NSW is still a penal colony when it comes to business... Guess that is why our poli's are finally waking up to the fact that those places are actually not all that bad places to be... I'll work on Linux... but not with my eyes closed... way too dangerous here in Australia David -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux and other software made in India... and lessons we can't understand...
> but you gotta give it to them, they have done wonders with software > and computers... Okay .. fine :) > such a pity our political leaders aren't actually smart enough to > figure out how they have done it but they don't mind spending > our hard earned money on some wining and dining and partying to try > to figure it out Sounds like Mr Brown ... better get back to some Linux now ... -- Richard -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Linux and other software made in India... and lessons we can't understand...
Quoting Richard Ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Also, my mobile phone runs on the Three network - www.three.co.uk - this is the worst mobile phone network that I have ever come across. Believe me, I've seen some bad networks and mostly in the United States. You call the three call centre and someone comes back with some Bindi Badger (curried badger/wombat) type of language which is completely unintelligible and then they proceed to screw up everything yes... but at least no matter where you are in the world and call you still get the same call centre with the same people ... at the very least it is consistant no matter where you go... :-) Well all I can say to other comments is the British and Americans and Germans are all making a stack of money out of India. They are doing something right that Australia as a country is not. Well, we export a lot of gold there so that is one thing. As for higher level skills, recently, Morris Yemma whoever whatever recently went to India and offered to use NSW as a labour supply to the Tata company. After being wined and dined and probably offered a lot of Kingfisher beer. I would say India is a fascinating country for technology... It has achieved what the Australian politicians promised us - (vibrant exporting IT industry) - and we have largely been left stuck up the billabong. funny accents and funny smells yes but you gotta give it to them, they have done wonders with software and computers... such a pity our political leaders aren't actually smart enough to figure out how they have done it but they don't mind spending our hard earned money on some wining and dining and partying to try to figure it out David -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
