Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
2009/11/2 Daniel Pittman dan...@rimspace.net Heh. Let me assure you, the integration question wasn't FUD: it is firmly grounded in fact. Well, at least, was, in the sense that the first Ubuntu with PulseAudio *really* screwed up. [deleted long description of what I may have been through myself too, without knowing all the details Daniel explains] I'd just like to point out that after a long time with 9.04 and no mic working (essential for Skype calls) - once I upgraded to 9.10 and found some ubuntu wiki page which explains what to look for I got mic working with very little GUI twiddling. Sound output was already on with 9.04 (after initial period of it getting lost after a while). So now I have Skype working properly with both the stand-alone mic and the one on the webcam. Ubuntu 9.10 warned me very clearly about some SMART errors on the office desktop disk (I took the opportunity to replace the disk by two disks and an MD mirror raid :). I don't follow this stuff closely but my general impression is that Ubuntu's weak point for a while now is not enough integration and testing - for many things not just PA. Cheers, --Amos -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
quote who=Heracles Sorry Daniel if I offended your favourite program. It is just that I have had to re-setup my sound several times now with each ubuntu upgrade and it has almost always been a problem that could be lain at the feet of PulseAudio. PulseAudio is awesome. We've desperately needed something like it in the Linux desktop ecosystem for a very long time. Ubuntu's integration (and lack of co-ordination with upstream) is... not so great. Sadly, this means that a huge majority of folks are not seeing PulseAudio operating at its best... and end up blaming it. Hopefully, the Ubuntu desktop developers will spend a bit of time polishing up the PulseAudio integration in their next release (an LTS, so polish is very much the focus). I suspect Daniel was reacting not to your commentary on PulseAudio in particular, but to the relevance and appropriateness of such commentary about the fruits of volunteer Open Source development in general. :-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2010: Wellington, NZhttp://www.lca2010.org.nz/ Maybe you should put some shorts on or something, if you want to keep fighting evil today. - The Bowler, Mystery Men -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 19:31 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: PulseAudio is awesome. We've desperately needed something like it in the Linux desktop ecosystem for a very long time. Ubuntu's integration (and lack of co-ordination with upstream) is... not so great. Sadly, this means that a huge majority of folks are not seeing PulseAudio operating at its best... and end up blaming it. Hopefully, the Ubuntu desktop developers will spend a bit of time polishing up the PulseAudio integration in their next release (an LTS, so polish is very much the focus). There seems to be some FUD around about the integration aspect :). -Rob signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net writes: On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 19:31 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: PulseAudio is awesome. We've desperately needed something like it in the Linux desktop ecosystem for a very long time. Ubuntu's integration (and lack of co-ordination with upstream) is... not so great. Sadly, this means that a huge majority of folks are not seeing PulseAudio operating at its best... and end up blaming it. Hopefully, the Ubuntu desktop developers will spend a bit of time polishing up the PulseAudio integration in their next release (an LTS, so polish is very much the focus). There seems to be some FUD around about the integration aspect :). Heh. Let me assure you, the integration question wasn't FUD: it is firmly grounded in fact. Well, at least, was, in the sense that the first Ubuntu with PulseAudio *really* screwed up. They shipped PA, which at the time blocked the sound card full time and continuously played silence when not playing anything else. They also failed to ship anything to configure asound to send output via PulseAudio, so anything that tried to use ALSA would block against the locked soundcard and never get to output audio.[1] Plus, playing sound 24x7 ran down laptop batteries some, which made some folks unhappy. So, yeah, I don't blame upstream for being unhappy about the whole thing. Anyway, to go to the source: This one has the specific discussion of Ubuntu; search for the distributions bit a bit of the way down the text: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/jeffrey-stedfast.html Other commentary: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/pa-in-ubuntu.html Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] ...and, yes, I was there at the time, and I did see this roll-out in production, and it did fail in exactly this way. -- ✣ Daniel Pittman✉ dan...@rimspace.net☎ +61 401 155 707 ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons Looking for work? Love Perl? In Melbourne, Australia? We are hiring. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Pulse Audio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 After upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 I no longer have sound. lspci recognises my Creative Labs Live card but I get nothing out of it. Last time this happened I fixed it by the complete removal of Pulse Audio. Is there a simple fix or do I just have to remove this malware. Heracles -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkruN5wACgkQybPcBAs9CE+foQCfbAzL0zRrqizSEkBZvtygRzLP QkwAnRJ45AUWRzyVPhX+xtdDgnGEa6Vl =+CZs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 12:36 +1100, Heracles wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 After upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 I no longer have sound. lspci recognises my Creative Labs Live card but I get nothing out of it. Last time this happened I fixed it by the complete removal of Pulse Audio. Is there a simple fix or do I just have to remove this malware. check your kernel - uname -a - if the date is not from October, then run 'sudo update-grub' and reboot. If that still has no sound (and not just muted), do 'sudo update-initramfs' and reboot again. -Rob signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
Heracles herac...@iprimus.com.au writes: After upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 I no longer have sound. lspci recognises my Creative Labs Live card but I get nothing out of it. Last time this happened I fixed it by the complete removal of Pulse Audio. What was PulseAudio doing that caused you to have problems with sound output? Have you checked if that is happening again? If not, what exactly isn't working: is it just that GNOME applications through libcanberra are not outputting audio, or other things? Does audio work if you tell an alsa application to talk direct to the hardware? Have you checked the volume levels and mutes on the sound card? Is it actually supported? IIRC, at least some of the Creative cards required firmware to offer various basic facilities — like sound — and didn't offer other basic facilities — like mute — with anything that could be redistributed. Is there a simple fix or do I just have to remove this malware. While PulseAudio may not work for you, throwing around the malware label is the same as the people who unsubscribe from mailing lists by hitting the report as SPAM button in their mail client: It is unhelpful, technically incorrect, and it makes you look kind of silly. A better approach is to say something like ...remove this awful, broken pile of steaming refuse that I would be ashamed to allow to touch my systems. :) Daniel -- ✣ Daniel Pittman✉ dan...@rimspace.net☎ +61 401 155 707 ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons Looking for work? Love Perl? In Melbourne, Australia? We are hiring. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thanks Robert, It was a little more complicated than that but you gave me the clues. I have several different distros on my system and the grub I needed was in a different filesystem. All fixed now I think. Haven't tried sound in utube as yet but everything else seems to work. Heracles Robert Collins wrote: On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 12:36 +1100, Heracles wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 After upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 I no longer have sound. lspci recognises my Creative Labs Live card but I get nothing out of it. Last time this happened I fixed it by the complete removal of Pulse Audio. Is there a simple fix or do I just have to remove this malware. check your kernel - uname -a - if the date is not from October, then run 'sudo update-grub' and reboot. If that still has no sound (and not just muted), do 'sudo update-initramfs' and reboot again. -Rob -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkruShEACgkQybPcBAs9CE+70wCdEsoA7C16J1j/FOoJiAuos6sg uPMAn2HxM99AgQPT3/J2aNIRGhpebZa0 =fZo3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry Daniel if I offended your favourite program. It is just that I have had to re-setup my sound several times now with each ubuntu upgrade and it has almost always been a problem that could be lain at the feet of PulseAudio. I have been able to solve the problem this time with Robert's advice and editing of some files but in the past it has had to be removed to repair the system and it took ubuntu desktop with it - not a characteristic of a well behaved program. It has given me grief in the past so I have always considered it malware but I take your point and will not do so in future. Heracles Daniel Pittman wrote: Heracles herac...@iprimus.com.au writes: After upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 I no longer have sound. lspci recognises my Creative Labs Live card but I get nothing out of it. Last time this happened I fixed it by the complete removal of Pulse Audio. What was PulseAudio doing that caused you to have problems with sound output? Have you checked if that is happening again? If not, what exactly isn't working: is it just that GNOME applications through libcanberra are not outputting audio, or other things? Does audio work if you tell an alsa application to talk direct to the hardware? Have you checked the volume levels and mutes on the sound card? Is it actually supported? IIRC, at least some of the Creative cards required firmware to offer various basic facilities — like sound — and didn't offer other basic facilities — like mute — with anything that could be redistributed. Is there a simple fix or do I just have to remove this malware. While PulseAudio may not work for you, throwing around the malware label is the same as the people who unsubscribe from mailing lists by hitting the report as SPAM button in their mail client: It is unhelpful, technically incorrect, and it makes you look kind of silly. A better approach is to say something like ...remove this awful, broken pile of steaming refuse that I would be ashamed to allow to touch my systems. :) Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkruaIYACgkQybPcBAs9CE9Z+ACffMESMl9O1BeoYW/oI2Piq9q3 s6kAoJqRvLbV+pKvmB6SbLV8zXzf7Ein =IOor -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
Heracles herac...@iprimus.com.au writes: G'day Heracles. Sorry Daniel if I offended your favourite program. If I was particularly fond of PulseAudio I wouldn't have described it in the terms I chose at the end. Just sayin' It is just that I have had to re-setup my sound several times now with each ubuntu upgrade and it has almost always been a problem that could be lain at the feet of PulseAudio. You would hardly be the first person. I think the PulseAudio developers have a similar view of Ubuntu, who they feel did about as bad a job as possible in integrating PA into the distribution. ;) I have been able to solve the problem this time with Robert's advice and editing of some files but in the past it has had to be removed to repair the system and it took ubuntu desktop with it - not a characteristic of a well behaved program. It has given me grief in the past so I have always considered it malware but I take your point and will not do so in future. Well, it is your choice as to how you describe it; just expect that you might occasionally be asked to explain why it qualifies. :) Daniel -- ✣ Daniel Pittman✉ dan...@rimspace.net☎ +61 401 155 707 ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons Looking for work? Love Perl? In Melbourne, Australia? We are hiring. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Pulse Audio
2009/11/2 Daniel Pittman dan...@rimspace.net Heracles herac...@iprimus.com.au writes: G'day Heracles. Sorry Daniel if I offended your favourite program. If I was particularly fond of PulseAudio I wouldn't have described it in the terms I chose at the end. Just sayin' It is just that I have had to re-setup my sound several times now with each ubuntu upgrade and it has almost always been a problem that could be lain at the feet of PulseAudio. You would hardly be the first person. I think the PulseAudio developers have a similar view of Ubuntu, who they feel did about as bad a job as possible in integrating PA into the distribution. ;) I went back to debian after having a very hard time with an ubu upgrade not that long ago. It was both audio and graphics. Seems like debian doesn't use pulse by default and it's been great. If anything I feel like my system handles simultaneous playing of sounds from different apps more reliably. -- Daniel Bush -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
