[SLUG] Re: Snakes and Rubies?
On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 03:45:26PM +1000, nornagon wrote: Python and Ruby are in many ways very similar. Where does this idea come from? Perl and Ruby are much closer, in my mind -- there's a clear flow of ideas from one to the other. Yes, you can do most of the same things in both languages, but that's not a big thing -- ultimately you can make the same comparison between most pairs of languages. There's lots of things that are tricky in Python that are trivial in Ruby, and I assume there's something that's hard in Ruby that's easy in Python. bloodlust for the Other Kind. However, having a Snakes and Rubies group would bring the two groups together in a (hopefully) peaceful way, and lead to civil discussions and productive conversations. Bwahahahaha. In fact, I can think of few things *worse* than an SR meeting -- it'd either be inflammatory sniping about the percieved or actual deficiencies in each other's languages, or anaemic acknowledgement of the other's virtues. Neither sounds like a fun way to spend an evening to me. Codefests for code. SR for scripting. That's what SIGs are all about. Because Ruby and Python are the only two possible languages for scripting? Personally, I think the general OSDC-style evening would probably be best -- especially if we can get some interesting talks on niche languages (or the term I heard today -- stretch languages[1]) to get people interested in what else is out there. - Matt [1] http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Snakes and Rubies?
Matthew Palmer wrote: Personally, I think the general OSDC-style evening would probably be best -- Yep, that would get my vote. especially if we can get some interesting talks on niche languages (or the term I heard today -- stretch languages[1]) to get people interested in what else is out there. I nomimate the following for stretch languages: Haskell OCaml Lisp Smalltalk Of those, at least two (and possibly Ocaml as a third with its strong ML roots) have a history of over 20 years. If this SIG is Python/Perl/Ruby, you are unlikey to get people with knowledge of these stretch languages along. Erik -- +---+ Erik de Castro Lopo +---+ I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind. -- Alan Kay -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Snakes and Rubies?
On 5/24/06, Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 03:45:26PM +1000, nornagon wrote: Python and Ruby are in many ways very similar. Where does this idea come from? Perl and Ruby are much closer, in my mind Well, yes - perl and ruby are similar. Because ruby draws on perl for many of its concepts. Note that I didn't say python and ruby are closer than perl and ruby, though. :) -- there's a clear flow of ideas from one to the other. Yes, you can do most of the same things in both languages, but that's not a big thing -- ultimately you can make the same comparison between most pairs of languages. There's lots of things that are tricky in Python that are trivial in Ruby, and I assume there's something that's hard in Ruby that's easy in Python. bloodlust for the Other Kind. However, having a Snakes and Rubies group would bring the two groups together in a (hopefully) peaceful way, and lead to civil discussions and productive conversations. Bwahahahaha. In fact, I can think of few things *worse* than an SR meeting -- it'd either be inflammatory sniping about the percieved or actual deficiencies in each other's languages, or anaemic acknowledgement of the other's virtues. Neither sounds like a fun way to spend an evening to me. Aw, come on, flamewars are fun g Codefests for code. SR for scripting. That's what SIGs are all about. Because Ruby and Python are the only two possible languages for scripting? Naturally. ;) Personally, I think the general OSDC-style evening would probably be best -- especially if we can get some interesting talks on niche languages (or the term I heard today -- stretch languages[1]) to get people interested in what else is out there. Once again, why subvert the infrastructure already in place? Codefests ftw. I do like your idea about stretch languages, though... I'd love to get someone talking about smalltalk or ocaml next codefest. :) -- - Jeremy Apthorp -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Snakes and Rubies?
I'm liking the idea of a general OSDC more and more. :) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Snakes and Rubies?
On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 06:41:15PM +1000, nornagon wrote: On 5/24/06, Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 24, 2006 at 03:45:26PM +1000, nornagon wrote: Python and Ruby are in many ways very similar. Where does this idea come from? Perl and Ruby are much closer, in my mind Well, yes - perl and ruby are similar. Because ruby draws on perl for many of its concepts. Note that I didn't say python and ruby are closer than perl and ruby, though. :) Point. But I can't think of too many similarities that Python and Ruby share that aren't also shared by a host of other languages, so I still don't know why everyone keeps on comparing them -- and I've asked this question before, and I've never gotten a good answer. I'm starting to suspect that people are just repeating what they've heard instead of actually sitting down and thinking about it for themselves. In fact, I can think of few things *worse* than an SR meeting -- it'd either be inflammatory sniping about the percieved or actual deficiencies in each other's languages, or anaemic acknowledgement of the other's virtues. Neither sounds like a fun way to spend an evening to me. Aw, come on, flamewars are fun g No, they're not. Productive disagreements are great, but pointless bickering just sours people to each others' viewpoints. Personally, I think the general OSDC-style evening would probably be best -- especially if we can get some interesting talks on niche languages (or the term I heard today -- stretch languages[1]) to get people interested in what else is out there. Once again, why subvert the infrastructure already in place? Codefests ftw. I do like your idea about stretch languages, though... I'd love to get someone talking about smalltalk or ocaml next codefest. :) Codefests are all day events, with a lot of different things going on. An OSDC-style SIG would be more structured, with a particular focus, and would probably be a couple of hours in an evening instead of a whole day (which is often hard for a lot of people to get to -- I know I've only been able to get to one in about the past 18 months). - Matt -- liw hut.fi has or used to have two nfs servers not-responding and still-trying... don't know if their dns server was not-found... 4o4 would be then a good name for the web server... endless hours of fun aj did you get a response from 4o4? nah, it just 404ed -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Snakes and Rubies?
On 24 May 2006, Erik de Castro Lopo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I nomimate the following for stretch languages: Haskell OCaml Lisp Smalltalk Of those, at least two (and possibly Ocaml as a third with its strong ML roots) have a history of over 20 years. If this SIG is Python/Perl/Ruby, you are unlikey to get people with knowledge of these stretch languages along. I started (re) learning a smattering of Smalltalk a few months ago, partly I was reminded by Objective C. I'd love to go to a session on any of those languages. In particular I think it would help to guide people from ok, here's hello world to if you write this toy application you'll start to really grok the language. -- Martin -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
