Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Daniel Pittman]

db  writes:

> Um i am confused. So the oem license says you cannot virtualize the
> windows xp from the downgrade ?

Last time I checked with Microsoft they told me, indeed, that there is
absolutely *NO* OEM license available for virtualization.  They are only
available for running on hardware purchased for the purpose, and that they
were changing the license terms so that you had to purchase a computer, not
just a power cord or something.

If you want virtualization, they said, buy a full price commercial copy, or
buy a site license of some sort — IIRC, the Action Pack was the least
expensive, at only a few thousand dollars, but most of the Enterprise or MSDN
packs work.


On the other hand, since Microsoft do offer different OEM terms to different
OEMs you /may/ find that your license is different, or Microsoft may have
changed the terms.

That seems *highly* unlikely to me, however, because the low cost of an OEM
license is specifically to drive vendors to ship Windows in preference to any
competing operating system.[1]


It is especially unlikely that Microsoft would structure their license terms
to work against their best interests: virtualization allows, among other
things, you to run their OS on some competing OS.

This doesn't make their life happier at all, so why would they encourage it?
Better for them to force the issue, make you buy additional hardware or pay
more to use Windows as well as a competing OS, so you are more likely to just
use Windows.[2]


So, check your license, but I *really* doubt it is the case.

Daniel

Also, XP is dead, and you need Windows 7.  If you buy the right version of
that it includes a "free" virtualized copy of XP.  Do you really thing they
are going to cannibalize sales of that in favour of helping your buy a less
expensive version of Windows 7, or avoid it entirely?  I don't.



Footnotes: 
[1]  Once upon a time this was more relevant than today, since there were
 other commercial operating systems that did compete head-to-head, like
 OS/2.  Now, not so much.

[2]  ...because, typically, the reason you don't just give up Windows entirely
 in the move is that you have something that you can't just replace.

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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[db]

Um i am confused. So the oem license says you cannot virtualize the
windows xp from the downgrade ?
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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Terry Dawson]

Daniel Pittman wrote:


Personally, I think the best thing y'all can do to eliminate these licenses,
and to encourage alternatives, is to demand that people strictly obey them.

That way they will become aware of just how completely crazy they are, and
pressure will actually build up to change them. :)


Spot on, I agree 100%.

I've successfully done this in my work environments and swayed 
purchasing decisions as a consequence.


Terry
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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Daniel Pittman]

Scott Waller  writes:
> db wrote:
>> Why don't you just use the xp license as per the downgrade from windows 
>> vista?
>> .(which you said came with the dell laptop).

Also breaks the licence agreement, IIRC, since that stipulates the same
restrictions as the original OEM install, but check your specific vendor just
in case.

> The bastards at Dell tie the key into the bios, so the downgrade Vista key
> needs to directly access the bios to check it's OK.  So when in a VM there
> is no connection back.
>
> Why hasn't the ACCC nailed the people yet??

Because there is competition in operating systems: you have absolutely no
obligation to accept the Windows license, and can see to purchase a computer
from a competing vendor.

In other countries, last time this was pushed, Apple were the alternate
vendor, although IIRC Sun also qualified.


Also, because this is not substantially different from the mobile phone
market, in which vendors subsidise hardware in return for long term contracts;
in the PC case this is more or less the reverse — the Windows software is
subsidised by the hardware manufacturer and upstream developer.


Finally, it isn't remotely clear that the law supports these technical
measures; the "license" terms on software routinely get tossed out in favor of
things like the doctrine of first sale in various courts.

It just happens that, like the validity of the GPL "release source" bits,
people don't actually run through to the conclusion of the case, they tend to
settle.

Until they do no one, not even Microsoft, know if they are actually legally
able to enforce that contract — but they can make sure the first person to
challenge it has to spend millions to find out.  So, no one does.


Gotta love the law, eh?
Daniel

Personally, I think the best thing y'all can do to eliminate these licenses,
and to encourage alternatives, is to demand that people strictly obey them.

That way they will become aware of just how completely crazy they are, and
pressure will actually build up to change them. :)
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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Scott Waller]

The bastards at Dell tie the key into the bios, so the downgrade Vista 
key needs to directly access the bios to check it's OK.  So when in a VM 
there is no connection back.


Why hasn't the ACCC nailed the people yet??

db wrote:

Why don't you just use the xp license as per the downgrade from windows vista?
.(which you said came with the dell laptop).

  

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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[db]

Why don't you just use the xp license as per the downgrade from windows vista?
.(which you said came with the dell laptop).
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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Amos Shapira]

2009/11/12 Mark Walkom :
> Well if you are a windows house primarily get them to get Technet!

Second to that - it's a bit weird that they are primarily windows shop
but without some form of an agreement for bulk licenses (not that I'm
an MS licensing expert).

Another option I heard is that people sell PC box covers with the
Windows license sticker on them on eBay (not OEM, hence not tied to a
specific PC, but retail licenses), to people in your position.

Never tried this though.

Cheers,

--Amos
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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Mark Walkom]

Well if you are a windows house primarily get them to get Technet!

2009/11/12 Scott Waller 

>  Hi Mark,
>
> I know what your saying, in fact I personally have 3 copies of OEM XP Pro
> that I got when buying PCs on eBay etc.  The problem seems to be in the OEM
> EULA specifically.  I need something concrete to show these very nervous
> Windows only IT guys.
>
> I might check out the Windows 7 OEM EULA, maybe it will let me install it
> on VirtualBox.
>
> Scott
>
> Mark Walkom wrote:
>
> You can usually find a vendor will to part with OEM if you buy something
> small like a mouse.
> Otherwise try seeing if someone has a copy they no longer need, there
> should be a few with Win7 out.
>
> 2009/11/12 Scott Waller 
>
>> Hi SLUG,
>>
>> Had an interesting day today, our IT department found out I was running
>> Ubuntu instead of Windows XP
>>
>> My setup currently is:
>>
>> New Dell lappy, it came with Vista and a XP Pro downgrade License.  I
>> still have a 40 gig partition with that original install on it, on the other
>> partition I have Ubuntu 9.04 32 bit with XP Pro running in Sun's VirtualBox.
>>  It works a treat. Unfortunatly the software I train people on only runs in
>> Windows and the company will not make it for any other platformanyway my
>> setup currently works fantastically.
>>
>> Well the issue that IT have with my setup is that the Windows XP Pro Key I
>> took off an old Toshiba Laptop that they threw in the dumpster, is
>> "violating" the OEM EULA.  After doing a quick search online and filtering
>> out the crap, I found that I actually am!  According to the OEM Windows XP
>> EULA, it can only ever be installed on the original COMPUTER and that's it.
>>  The licence basically dies with the hardwarethanks microsoft (I guess
>> that's why Billy's so rich)
>>
>> So in order to comply, I need a "retail" version of XP Pro which can be
>> installed on multiple PCs (not running at the same time).
>>
>> My Boss who would have to approve the expense of either XP or 7 retail
>> version is very anti anything not microsoft.
>>
>> I will offer to personally pay for the copy of 7 so I can keep my Ubuntu
>> setup, but would like to find a loophole.
>>
>> So my question to you folks is:
>>
>> Is there a way around buying either a XP "open" license or Windows 7 Pro
>> Retail?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Scott
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>> Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
>>
>
>
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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Scott Waller]

Hi Mark,

I know what your saying, in fact I personally have 3 copies of OEM XP 
Pro that I got when buying PCs on eBay etc.  The problem seems to be in 
the OEM EULA specifically.  I need something concrete to show these very 
nervous Windows only IT guys.


I might check out the Windows 7 OEM EULA, maybe it will let me install 
it on VirtualBox.


Scott

Mark Walkom wrote:
You can usually find a vendor will to part with OEM if you buy 
something small like a mouse.
Otherwise try seeing if someone has a copy they no longer need, there 
should be a few with Win7 out.


2009/11/12 Scott Waller >


Hi SLUG,

Had an interesting day today, our IT department found out I was
running Ubuntu instead of Windows XP

My setup currently is:

New Dell lappy, it came with Vista and a XP Pro downgrade License.
 I still have a 40 gig partition with that original install on it,
on the other partition I have Ubuntu 9.04 32 bit with XP Pro
running in Sun's VirtualBox.  It works a treat. Unfortunatly the
software I train people on only runs in Windows and the company
will not make it for any other platformanyway my setup
currently works fantastically.

Well the issue that IT have with my setup is that the Windows XP
Pro Key I took off an old Toshiba Laptop that they threw in the
dumpster, is "violating" the OEM EULA.  After doing a quick search
online and filtering out the crap, I found that I actually am!
 According to the OEM Windows XP EULA, it can only ever be
installed on the original COMPUTER and that's it.  The licence
basically dies with the hardwarethanks microsoft (I guess
that's why Billy's so rich)

So in order to comply, I need a "retail" version of XP Pro which
can be installed on multiple PCs (not running at the same time).

My Boss who would have to approve the expense of either XP or 7
retail version is very anti anything not microsoft.

I will offer to personally pay for the copy of 7 so I can keep my
Ubuntu setup, but would like to find a loophole.

So my question to you folks is:

Is there a way around buying either a XP "open" license or Windows
7 Pro Retail?

Thanks

Scott
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Re: [SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Mark Walkom]

You can usually find a vendor will to part with OEM if you buy something
small like a mouse.
Otherwise try seeing if someone has a copy they no longer need, there should
be a few with Win7 out.

2009/11/12 Scott Waller 

> Hi SLUG,
>
> Had an interesting day today, our IT department found out I was running
> Ubuntu instead of Windows XP
>
> My setup currently is:
>
> New Dell lappy, it came with Vista and a XP Pro downgrade License.  I still
> have a 40 gig partition with that original install on it, on the other
> partition I have Ubuntu 9.04 32 bit with XP Pro running in Sun's VirtualBox.
>  It works a treat. Unfortunatly the software I train people on only runs in
> Windows and the company will not make it for any other platformanyway my
> setup currently works fantastically.
>
> Well the issue that IT have with my setup is that the Windows XP Pro Key I
> took off an old Toshiba Laptop that they threw in the dumpster, is
> "violating" the OEM EULA.  After doing a quick search online and filtering
> out the crap, I found that I actually am!  According to the OEM Windows XP
> EULA, it can only ever be installed on the original COMPUTER and that's it.
>  The licence basically dies with the hardwarethanks microsoft (I guess
> that's why Billy's so rich)
>
> So in order to comply, I need a "retail" version of XP Pro which can be
> installed on multiple PCs (not running at the same time).
>
> My Boss who would have to approve the expense of either XP or 7 retail
> version is very anti anything not microsoft.
>
> I will offer to personally pay for the copy of 7 so I can keep my Ubuntu
> setup, but would like to find a loophole.
>
> So my question to you folks is:
>
> Is there a way around buying either a XP "open" license or Windows 7 Pro
> Retail?
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott
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> SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
>
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[SLUG] Windows XP Pro OEM EULA and VirtualBox

[Scott Waller]

Hi SLUG,

Had an interesting day today, our IT department found out I was running 
Ubuntu instead of Windows XP


My setup currently is:

New Dell lappy, it came with Vista and a XP Pro downgrade License.  I 
still have a 40 gig partition with that original install on it, on the 
other partition I have Ubuntu 9.04 32 bit with XP Pro running in Sun's 
VirtualBox.  It works a treat. 
Unfortunatly the software I train people on only runs in Windows and the 
company will not make it for any other platformanyway my setup 
currently works fantastically.


Well the issue that IT have with my setup is that the Windows XP Pro Key 
I took off an old Toshiba Laptop that they threw in the dumpster, is 
"violating" the OEM EULA.  After doing a quick search online and 
filtering out the crap, I found that I actually am!  According to the 
OEM Windows XP EULA, it can only ever be installed on the original 
COMPUTER and that's it.  The licence basically dies with the 
hardwarethanks microsoft (I guess that's why Billy's so rich)


So in order to comply, I need a "retail" version of XP Pro which can be 
installed on multiple PCs (not running at the same time).


My Boss who would have to approve the expense of either XP or 7 retail 
version is very anti anything not microsoft.


I will offer to personally pay for the copy of 7 so I can keep my Ubuntu 
setup, but would like to find a loophole.


So my question to you folks is:

Is there a way around buying either a XP "open" license or Windows 7 Pro 
Retail?


Thanks

Scott
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