RE: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour
Hi all, ok well for people who like to know how things turned out... I picked up (another) new cpu fan, and some goo that joins the heatsink to cpu, yesterday and put it all together and cleaned all the dust and crap out of the PC and fired it up. The video seemed to work ok but the bios was still reporting junk for the hdd disk. And trying to access hdc was giving all sorts of ext2 fs errors, and the directory sizes and settings all wrong etc etc. Anway, I thought about what I was doing at the time some more and checked everything closely and noticed hdc had a jumper set across two pins that I intended to mean to set it to master but the two pins I picked weren't listed as valid (master/slave/cable etc). (It's a Fujitsu disk and I'm so used to Seagate ones I just whacked it on as you do for Seagate - and of course they're different!) So I fixed that and suddenly hdd was ok in the bios and hdc worked ok again (the two pins I picked must have been the undocumented "f#k up the IDE bus" setting) . So now it's working again. I'm still slightly suspicious of it though (it was on all through that hot weather just recently with a dead or dying cpu fan) so I am keeping an eye out for any more weird behaviour (and I did a backup of the system which I hadn't done since I installed it all a few weeks ago). Dave. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour
Hi Dave, You really need to keep the fan going on a PC; without it you can cook things. This applies to any PC irrespective of what operating system it's running on. On more modern ones, sometimes the BIOS detects the temperature on the mobo / CPU and will not allow boot it the temperature is over a certain amount (whatever that is, varies from machine to machine). On the older ones, the video often karks it first. It puts out maybe 7W of heat and is not necessarily in the path of the fan. Also at high temperature (say over 35 deg C) the disk media change physical size compared to the head positioning hardware so the tracks ain't where they used to be. So if you write to it, you might not be able to read it again at a lower temperature. Other effects for pentiums might include executing the wrong instructions because the chip internal timing is also temperature dependent. Different parts of the instruction might arrive at the (say) ALU at different times or might be clocked into the wrong internal register because the setup times are violated. Cheers, Jill. -- Jill Rowling, Snr Des. Eng. Unix System Administrator Eng. Systems Dept, Aristocrat Technologies Australia 3rd Floor, 77 Dunning Ave Rosebery NSW 2018 Phone: (02) 9697-4484 Fax: (02) 9663-1412 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dave Fitch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 5 February 2001 10:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour Hi all, What happens when a PC CPU overheats? (it's a Cyrix/IBM P200) -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE -- This email is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, distribution, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. Confidentiality attached to this communication is not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery to you. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify us by return e-mail or telephone Aristocrat Technologies Australia Pty Limited on +61 2 9413 6300. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Dave Fitch wrote: Hi all, What happens when a PC CPU overheats? (it's a Cyrix/IBM P200) I'm talking about what effects do you see on the PC? snip The only hint I've got is that when I took the lid off, the CPU fan was hardly spinning at all, and laying the case on it's side stopped the fan altogether. I don't know how long it's been like that. This machine is usually left on all the time. The symptoms of overheating vary, usually wierd random crashes errors and lockups. If the fan is not spinning, that would definitely explain the problem. I've had a cpu fan fail and was getting all sorts of wierd symptoms, I don't remember exactly what. However, if the cpu has been overheating for some time, it may be damaged, and it may have written a fair bit of crap to the HD. The best thing to do is to open the case, let it cool to room temperature, blow a room fan into it, and start the machine. If you have problems that don't appear hard disk related at that point (ie, in the first minute or so) you've almost certainly cooked your cpu, and need to replace it. Otherwise, replace the fan, check the hd and you may be lucky. cheers, Martin -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour
Hi Jill, Jill Rowling [EMAIL PROTECTED] You really need to keep the fan going on a PC; without it you can cook things. ok, so is that permanently cook things? so far, in this machine, I must have have replaced the CPU fan at least 2-3 times (not buying the real el-cheapo ones either). This applies to any PC irrespective of what operating system it's running on. On more modern ones, sometimes the BIOS detects the temperature on the mobo / CPU and will not allow boot it the temperature is over a certain amount (whatever that is, varies from machine to machine). yeah seen that, not much use if it only prevents booting though. Anyway mine is the next case... On the older ones, the video often karks it first. It puts out maybe 7W of heat and is not necessarily in the path of the fan. sounds like mine. The only fans are the CPU fan and the one inside the power supply. [cut interesting disk stuff, can't say I've really thought about that before] Dave. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour
Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The symptoms of overheating vary, usually wierd random crashes errors and lockups. If the fan is not spinning, that would definitely explain the problem. I've had a cpu fan fail and was getting all sorts of wierd symptoms, I don't remember exactly what. However, if the cpu has been overheating for some time, it may be damaged, and it may have written a fair bit of crap to the HD. dunno, the disks had seemed ok... The best thing to do is to open the case, let it cool to room temperature, blow a room fan into it, and start the machine. maybe that's why it started Sun night then, cos it had been off since Sat morning. If you have problems that don't appear hard disk related at that point (ie, in the first minute or so) you've almost certainly cooked your cpu, and need to replace it. Otherwise, replace the fan, check the hd and you may be lucky. ok, I'll give it a go. Thanks, Dave. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour
Dave said: ok, so is that permanently cook things? Yes, if you keep it going. At worst, you can lose smoke... Also you might want to check how much dust fluff there is. Acts like an electrically conductive blanket. You might want to vacuum it out if it's real gross. Cheers, Jill. -- Jill Rowling, Snr Des. Eng. Unix System Administrator Eng. Systems Dept, Aristocrat Technologies Australia 3rd Floor, 77 Dunning Ave Rosebery NSW 2018 Phone: (02) 9697-4484 Fax: (02) 9663-1412 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE -- This email is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, distribution, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. Confidentiality attached to this communication is not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery to you. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify us by return e-mail or telephone Aristocrat Technologies Australia Pty Limited on +61 2 9413 6300. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] weird PC behaviour
Terry Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave Fitch wrote: so far, in this machine, I must have have replaced the CPU fan at least 2-3 times (not buying the real el-cheapo ones either). Unless this is an old machine, I'd suggest a new brand of fan. it is an old machine (old in PC terms, it's younger than my sparc5 which has run untouched for yonks). But the fans I've replaced have all been with new ones. Perhaps you need to look at whole of case cooling, i.e. extra extraction and inlet fans to move air much faster through the case. yes I was coming to that conclusion myself Heatsink goo between the fan and CPU might also help move heat atout of the cpu better. yep sounds like mine. The only fans are the CPU fan and the one inside the power supply. If noise is not an issue, a 240v 5" fan ontop of the case will fix any over heating. Use a 12v if noise is the problem. minimal noise is better but noise is not the prime concern. I can make drill, hole cutters, nibbler, etc available on MacLUg days if you decide to go this way. thanks for the offer. I'd rather not mount it on top as my (external) cd burner and modem go there (at the moment efficent use of space is good). I was thinking of some of those fans that fit into a 5.25" slot on the front. Before all that though, I've got to get the damn thing working again. Dave (mumble mumble bloody PC shit etc). -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
