Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[David Lyon]

Hi Tom,

Have you seen these ? : http://www.adapteva.com/


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Tom Worthington  wrote:

> On 04/02/14 16:42, Glen Turner wrote:
>
>  I'd also be careful when comparing old v new computers that you
>> include the entire system, especially if moving from a CRT to LCD
>> screen. ...
>>
>
> Are there many CRTs still in use? The computer recycling bins in Canberra
> were full of old LCD screens last year: http://blog.tomw.net.au/2013/
> 02/e-waste-collection-working-in-canberra.html
>
> But when I had a look more recently there seemed to be mostly LCDs. New
> LCD displays are more energy efficient than old ones, but the savings are
> much less than moving from a CRT.
>
> One problem with the official recycling scheme in Canberra and some other
> locations, is that there is no one looking to see what could be reused:
> everything goes straight in a bin for recycling.
>
>  The flip side is that old computers can be outstanding value for
>> money when used as computers ...  monochrome laser printer ...
>>
>
> Free old equipment good value. My last two laser printers I picked up
> discarded in the street, complete with toner. But keep in mind that a laser
> printer uses a lot of power and if you only use them occasionally, turn
> them off at the wall.
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Worthington FACS CP, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150
> The Higher Education Whisperer http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/
> PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia  http://www.tomw.net.au
> Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards
> Legislation
>
> Adjunct Senior Lecturer, Research School of Computer Science,
> Australian National University http://cs.anu.edu.au/courses/COMP7310/
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> Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
>
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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Tom Worthington]

On 04/02/14 15:20, Eden Cane wrote (in response to my running a semester
long ICT Sustainability course):


... they must be burning a lot of calories doing that for 6 months,
surely there is a way to work that out using less energy!


I have one student trying to do the semester long course in three weeks. 
But working out how much energy and materials all the computer and 
telecommunications equipment in an organisation use is not that easy. 
Even harder is working out how to reduce this, while not costing the 
organisation too much (or even saving them money).


As an example, you can replace the desktop PCs with some form of "thin 
client", but Microsoft Windows applications don't work so well remotely. 
Convincing a company to use Linux applications, unless you disguise it 
as a proprietary product, such as Google Android.



--
Tom Worthington FACS CP, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150
The Higher Education Whisperer http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/
PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia  http://www.tomw.net.au
Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards
Legislation

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Australian National University http://cs.anu.edu.au/courses/COMP7310/
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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Tom Worthington]

On 04/02/14 16:42, Glen Turner wrote:


I’d also be careful when comparing old v new computers that you
include the entire system, especially if moving from a CRT to LCD
screen. ...


Are there many CRTs still in use? The computer recycling bins in 
Canberra were full of old LCD screens last year: 
http://blog.tomw.net.au/2013/02/e-waste-collection-working-in-canberra.html


But when I had a look more recently there seemed to be mostly LCDs. New 
LCD displays are more energy efficient than old ones, but the savings 
are much less than moving from a CRT.


One problem with the official recycling scheme in Canberra and some 
other locations, is that there is no one looking to see what could be 
reused: everything goes straight in a bin for recycling.



The flip side is that old computers can be outstanding value for
money when used as computers ...  monochrome laser printer ...


Free old equipment good value. My last two laser printers I picked up 
discarded in the street, complete with toner. But keep in mind that a 
laser printer uses a lot of power and if you only use them occasionally, 
turn them off at the wall.



--
Tom Worthington FACS CP, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150
The Higher Education Whisperer http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/
PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia  http://www.tomw.net.au
Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards
Legislation

Adjunct Senior Lecturer, Research School of Computer Science,
Australian National University http://cs.anu.edu.au/courses/COMP7310/
--
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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Glen Turner]

Edwin Humphries wrote:

> Surely it rather depends on what the intended use of the old computer is?
> 
> I've heard of using old computers as routers, NAS boxes and so on, and whilst 
> I applaud the idea of extending useful life, using a 75-100W PC to do the job 
> of a 10-15W router is hardly energy efficient - or cost effective.

Yep. Consider that the CubieTruck with a SSD pulls 10W peak, 5W typ and will 
happily run a web server capable of pushing 1Gbps. The CubieTruck is about 
$114, a 120GB SSD is about $100. If that replaces a 95W headless computer (aka 
“old laptop”) then the CubieTruck uses $160pa less electricity. So the payback 
period is about 1.5 years (less if the house has air conditioning).

I’d also be careful when comparing old v new computers that you include the 
entire system, especially if moving from a CRT to LCD screen.

The flip side is that old computers can be outstanding value for money when 
used as computers. For example Aspitech offer a Core2Duo desktop computer with 
LCD screen for $170 including Windows and Office. If you desperately need a 
computer for uni essays then it’s hard to do better than one of these and a 
monochrome laser printer (and yeah, Aspitech are Linux-friendly if you ask).

-glen

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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Eden Cane]

My students spend a semester working out the trade-offs between

> a new computer using less energy and the waste caused by replacing the
> old computer: http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml


they must be burning a lot of calories doing that for 6 months, surely
there is a way to work that out using less energy!
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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Tom Worthington]

On 03/02/14 13:07, James Linder wrote:


Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)

Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the
beast creates much more CO2 than the new ones ...


But about half the energy used by a PC is in its manufacture and 
delivery (called "embedded energy") and half the electricity to run it. 
So the new computer has to save a lot of energy to make up for its 
manufacture. If the components are reused or recycled, rather than 
thrown away, this will lower the energy use. Also newer computers tend 
to have less materials and so take less energy to make: 
http://www.katescomment.com/embedded-energy-of-servers-pc/


My students spend a semester working out the trade-offs between
a new computer using less energy and the waste caused by replacing the
old computer: http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml


binning it (hopefully decently) ...


Yes, Australian has a "National Television and Computer Recycling 
Scheme", funded by industry. Old equipment is sorted, packed into 
shipping containers and then sent for recycling: 
http://www.environment.gov.au/node/21281



--
Tom Worthington FACS CP, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150
The Higher Education Whisperer http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/
PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia  http://www.tomw.net.au
Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards
Legislation

Adjunct Senior Lecturer, Research School of Computer Science,
Australian National University http://cs.anu.edu.au/courses/COMP7310/
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Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html

Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Hi David,


The City of Sydney has set up much needed Battery, mobile phone and Fluoro 
light bulb Recycling Collection Stations at Neighbourhood Centres and 
Libraries...more

..

NSW government $485m waste initiative
The NSW Environmental Trust and the NSW EPA are calling for applications to the 
Improved Systems for Household Problem Wastes - community Recycling Centres. 
Applications open 7 November 2013 and close on Monday, 3 February 2014... more

http://ramin.com.au/blog/?itemid=296

Marghanita
David wrote:

A slightly different slant on the same topic.

A little while ago I tried to recycle a bunch of broken IT gear without 
much luck... despite a fair bit of effort the "system" was pushing me 
into sending it to landfill.


Eventually I took it all to Sims Metal at Alexandria who not only took 
it off my hands for recycling but also apologised because there wasn't 
enough to make it worth their while to pay *me*. Apparently if I had 
taken a tonne or more I would have got some money (don't quote me on 
that though).


Meantime every other place I tried wanted a large amount of money to 
take it off my hands. One guy wanted to charge me $120 to take one 
commercial photocopier. Sydney City Council do occasional e-waste 
recycling days, but not often enough.


It's a pity recycling  e-waste isn't made easier for punters. It's not a 
good landfill candidate.


David





On 03/02/14 14:29, James Linder wrote:

On 3 Feb 2014, at 10:48 am, Jason Ball  wrote:

Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the 
beast creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the 
environment (sic) causes much more harm than

binning it (hopefully decently)
Prove it.  Please include the carbon cost of the new machine, 
shipping etc, while you are at it.


Cheers.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 1:07 PM, James Linder  wrote:

Computers and mobile devices become obsolete much quicker than other 
consumer products, such as refrigerators and cars. Electronic 
equipment can contain toxic and valuable materials which should not 
be simply put into landfill. Before you buy a new computer, tablet 
or phone, look at the options of what to do with the old one. Tom 
Worthington is author of the free ebook "ICT Sustainability: 
Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon Future": 
http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml

Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)

Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the 
beast creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the 
environment (sic) causes much more harm than binning it (hopefully 
decently)

Jason and Margharita

I�m not standing on my soapbox, just encouraging our younger members 
to think through the implications of their actions, rather than being 
swayed by the warm and fuzzy hype.
I think that slug collects the best and finest and that issues like 
this are oh so important, specially before one gets old and cynical.
The kudos flow from doing something, rather than being seen to do 
something.
So while this drifts OT it is really really important and the opinions 
of Jason, Margharita et al are really really important too.

James





--
Marghanita da Cruz
Ramin Communications Pty Ltd
http://ramin.com.au/
Phone:(+61)0414-869202


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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[David]

A slightly different slant on the same topic.

A little while ago I tried to recycle a bunch of broken IT gear without 
much luck... despite a fair bit of effort the "system" was pushing me 
into sending it to landfill.


Eventually I took it all to Sims Metal at Alexandria who not only took 
it off my hands for recycling but also apologised because there wasn't 
enough to make it worth their while to pay *me*. Apparently if I had 
taken a tonne or more I would have got some money (don't quote me on 
that though).


Meantime every other place I tried wanted a large amount of money to 
take it off my hands. One guy wanted to charge me $120 to take one 
commercial photocopier. Sydney City Council do occasional e-waste 
recycling days, but not often enough.


It's a pity recycling  e-waste isn't made easier for punters. It's not a 
good landfill candidate.


David





On 03/02/14 14:29, James Linder wrote:

On 3 Feb 2014, at 10:48 am, Jason Ball  wrote:


Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast 
creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic) causes 
much more harm than
binning it (hopefully decently)

Prove it.  Please include the carbon cost of the new machine, shipping etc, 
while you are at it.

Cheers.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 1:07 PM, James Linder  wrote:


Computers and mobile devices become obsolete much quicker than other consumer products, 
such as refrigerators and cars. Electronic equipment can contain toxic and valuable 
materials which should not be simply put into landfill. Before you buy a new computer, 
tablet or phone, look at the options of what to do with the old one. Tom Worthington is 
author of the free ebook "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low 
Carbon Future": http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml

Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)

Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast 
creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic) causes 
much more harm than binning it (hopefully decently)

Jason and Margharita

I’m not standing on my soapbox, just encouraging our younger members to think 
through the implications of their actions, rather than being swayed by the warm 
and fuzzy hype.
I think that slug collects the best and finest and that issues like this are oh 
so important, specially before one gets old and cynical.
The kudos flow from doing something, rather than being seen to do something.
So while this drifts OT it is really really important and the opinions of 
Jason, Margharita et al are really really important too.
James


--
David McQuire
0418 310312

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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Edwin Humphries]

Surely it rather depends on what the intended use of the old computer is?

I've heard of using old computers as routers, NAS boxes and so on, and 
whilst I applaud the idea of extending useful life, using a 75-100W PC 
to do the job of a 10-15W router is hardly energy efficient - or cost 
effective.


Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051


On 03/02/14 15:40, Jason Ball wrote:

On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 2:29 PM, James Linder  wrote:


On 3 Feb 2014, at 10:48 am, Jason Ball  wrote:


Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the

beast creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment
(sic) causes much more harm than

binning it (hopefully decently)

Prove it.  Please include the carbon cost of the new machine, shipping

etc, while you are at it.

Cheers.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 1:07 PM, James Linder  wrote:


Computers and mobile devices become obsolete much quicker than other

consumer products, such as refrigerators and cars. Electronic equipment can
contain toxic and valuable materials which should not be simply put into
landfill. Before you buy a new computer, tablet or phone, look at the
options of what to do with the old one. Tom Worthington is author of the
free ebook "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon
Future": http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml

Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)

Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the

beast creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment
(sic) causes much more harm than binning it (hopefully decently)

Jason and Margharita

I'm not standing on my soapbox, just encouraging our younger members to
think through the implications of their actions, rather than being swayed
by the warm and fuzzy hype.
I think that slug collects the best and finest and that issues like this
are oh so important, specially before one gets old and cynical.
The kudos flow from doing something, rather than being seen to do
something.
So while this drifts OT it is really really important and the opinions of
Jason, Margharita et al are really really important too.
James



It was more the falacious argument 'your old computer uses much more energy
than a new one' where I said 'prove it'.   I shouldn't have responded so
briefly.

A UN analysis (reference pending) has put the carbon cost of a 'desktop pc'
at ~250KG.  This is difficult to truly quantify as the cost of components
and shipping etc will vary.  A modest desktop PC can chew through 55KG of
carbon a year, 35KG for smaller systems.   On a worst case, buy a new PC
every year for three (3) years and burn > 800KG of carbon, or keep your pc
for three (3) years and burn ~285KG, keep it for an additional three years
and your carbon burn is an additional 105KG assuming moderate use (35KG)
for all calculations.

There are many reasons to upgrade, the 'your old computer uses much  more
energy than a new one' is not one of them.  If you are buying a new PC then
picking an energy efficient system and leaving all the power saving
features enabled is a good idea.  Just don't kid yourself that buying a new
PC is good for the environment.

As you said, my 'opinion', with a little fact added in ;)

I'm afraid I can't find the UN study for the above, apologies as I've run
out of time.  Unfortunately without the supporting facts it makes this a
fallacious argument as well :/

Cheers
Jason.









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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Jason Ball]

On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 2:29 PM, James Linder  wrote:

>
> On 3 Feb 2014, at 10:48 am, Jason Ball  wrote:
>
> >
> > >Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the
> beast creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment
> (sic) causes much more harm than
> > > binning it (hopefully decently)
> >
> > Prove it.  Please include the carbon cost of the new machine, shipping
> etc, while you are at it.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 1:07 PM, James Linder  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Computers and mobile devices become obsolete much quicker than other
> consumer products, such as refrigerators and cars. Electronic equipment can
> contain toxic and valuable materials which should not be simply put into
> landfill. Before you buy a new computer, tablet or phone, look at the
> options of what to do with the old one. Tom Worthington is author of the
> free ebook "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon
> Future": http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml
> >
> > Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)
> >
> > Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the
> beast creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment
> (sic) causes much more harm than binning it (hopefully decently)
>
> Jason and Margharita
>
> I'm not standing on my soapbox, just encouraging our younger members to
> think through the implications of their actions, rather than being swayed
> by the warm and fuzzy hype.
> I think that slug collects the best and finest and that issues like this
> are oh so important, specially before one gets old and cynical.
> The kudos flow from doing something, rather than being seen to do
> something.
> So while this drifts OT it is really really important and the opinions of
> Jason, Margharita et al are really really important too.
> James
>
>

It was more the falacious argument 'your old computer uses much more energy
than a new one' where I said 'prove it'.   I shouldn't have responded so
briefly.

A UN analysis (reference pending) has put the carbon cost of a 'desktop pc'
at ~250KG.  This is difficult to truly quantify as the cost of components
and shipping etc will vary.  A modest desktop PC can chew through 55KG of
carbon a year, 35KG for smaller systems.   On a worst case, buy a new PC
every year for three (3) years and burn > 800KG of carbon, or keep your pc
for three (3) years and burn ~285KG, keep it for an additional three years
and your carbon burn is an additional 105KG assuming moderate use (35KG)
for all calculations.

There are many reasons to upgrade, the 'your old computer uses much  more
energy than a new one' is not one of them.  If you are buying a new PC then
picking an energy efficient system and leaving all the power saving
features enabled is a good idea.  Just don't kid yourself that buying a new
PC is good for the environment.

As you said, my 'opinion', with a little fact added in ;)

I'm afraid I can't find the UN study for the above, apologies as I've run
out of time.  Unfortunately without the supporting facts it makes this a
fallacious argument as well :/

Cheers
Jason.







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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[James Linder]

On 3 Feb 2014, at 10:48 am, Jason Ball  wrote:

> 
> >Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast 
> >creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic) 
> >causes much more harm than 
> > binning it (hopefully decently)
> 
> Prove it.  Please include the carbon cost of the new machine, shipping etc, 
> while you are at it.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 1:07 PM, James Linder  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Computers and mobile devices become obsolete much quicker than other 
> > consumer products, such as refrigerators and cars. Electronic equipment can 
> > contain toxic and valuable materials which should not be simply put into 
> > landfill. Before you buy a new computer, tablet or phone, look at the 
> > options of what to do with the old one. Tom Worthington is author of the 
> > free ebook "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon 
> > Future": http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml
> 
> Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)
> 
> Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast 
> creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic) causes 
> much more harm than binning it (hopefully decently)

Jason and Margharita

I’m not standing on my soapbox, just encouraging our younger members to think 
through the implications of their actions, rather than being swayed by the warm 
and fuzzy hype.
I think that slug collects the best and finest and that issues like this are oh 
so important, specially before one gets old and cynical.
The kudos flow from doing something, rather than being seen to do something. 
So while this drifts OT it is really really important and the opinions of 
Jason, Margharita et al are really really important too.
James
-- 
SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html

Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Jason Ball wrote:

Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast

creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic)
causes much more harm than

binning it (hopefully decently)


Prove it.  Please include the carbon cost of the new machine, shipping etc,
while you are at it.




You could also consider - recycling value of the components of your old computer vs mining new 
resources!


It also depends what you are going to use the old computer for. I thought of turning an old computer 
into

a Digital Photo frame, but from a sustainability perspective, decided to 
exhibit printed works instead.

More at Reusing an old Laptop for a Digital Picture Frame
http://ramin.com.au/eco-sydney/e-waste.shtml

Marghanita
--
Marghanita da Cruz
Ramin Communications Pty Ltd
http://ramin.com.au/
Phone:(+61)0414-869202


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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[Jason Ball]

>Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast
creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic)
causes much more harm than
> binning it (hopefully decently)

Prove it.  Please include the carbon cost of the new machine, shipping etc,
while you are at it.

Cheers.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 1:07 PM, James Linder  wrote:

>
> >
> > Computers and mobile devices become obsolete much quicker than other
> consumer products, such as refrigerators and cars. Electronic equipment can
> contain toxic and valuable materials which should not be simply put into
> landfill. Before you buy a new computer, tablet or phone, look at the
> options of what to do with the old one. Tom Worthington is author of the
> free ebook "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon
> Future": http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml
>
> Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)
>
> Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast
> creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic)
> causes much more harm than binning it (hopefully decently)
>
> James
>
> PS my own pet hate, and I bet many have heard polies utter the oxymoron,
> "sustainable growth"
> --
> SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
>



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Re: [SLUG] Reuse or Recycle Your Old Computer

[James Linder]

> 
> Computers and mobile devices become obsolete much quicker than other consumer 
> products, such as refrigerators and cars. Electronic equipment can contain 
> toxic and valuable materials which should not be simply put into landfill. 
> Before you buy a new computer, tablet or phone, look at the options of what 
> to do with the old one. Tom Worthington is author of the free ebook "ICT 
> Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon Future": 
> http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/introduction.shtml

Tom just for fun (well not really, but for a consider this)

Your old computer uses much more energy than a new one. Powering the beast 
creates much more CO2 than the new ones and save the environment (sic) causes 
much more harm than binning it (hopefully decently)

James

PS my own pet hate, and I bet many have heard polies utter the oxymoron, 
"sustainable growth"
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