Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:25:23AM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > For more context, see the attached log. I left some of the normal Ouch, sorry. Here it is, attached to this one. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini ioerrorlog.txt.bz2 Description: Binary data signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
2009/3/14 Enrico Zini > Hello, > > everything works fine if I use the FreeRunner as a PDA, without a SIM > card. However, if I put the SIM card in it, sometimes and unpredictably > the whole SD subsystem fails and I get I/O errors on any activity. > Several months ago I used to get filesystem corruption as well, but that > seems to have improved over time. > > [...] > Among the public was another FreeRunner owner who also boots from SD and > reported that he is occasionally experiencing the same problem. > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > I'm experiencing the same here. May you post vendor/model of your SD card and the GSM operator? Ciao :) Nicola ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 11:58:51PM +0100, Nicola Mfb wrote: >I'm experiencing the same here. >May you post vendor/model of your SD card and the GSM operator? Exactly this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards/SD-C02G It turns out that the problem is well known, not solved, but with a few work-arounds. Given the cost of microSD cards nowadays, it's probably cheaper to buy a different one than it is to waste time in testing the work-arounds. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
2009/3/16 Enrico Zini > On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 11:58:51PM +0100, Nicola Mfb wrote: > > >I'm experiencing the same here. > >May you post vendor/model of your SD card and the GSM operator? > > Exactly this one: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards/SD-C02G > > It turns out that the problem is well known, not solved, but with a few > work-arounds. Given the cost of microSD cards nowadays, it's probably > cheaper to buy a different one than it is to waste time in testing the > work-arounds. > I have problems with a Kingstone SDC4/8GB, that on that wiki page is reported as working. Are you using a Vodafone SIM? ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 01:08:11AM +0100, Nicola Mfb wrote: > Exactly this one: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards/SD-C02G > > It turns out that the problem is well known, not solved, but with a few > work-arounds. Given the cost of microSD cards nowadays, it's probably > cheaper to buy a different one than it is to waste time in testing the > work-arounds. > >I have problems with a Kingstone SDC4/8GB, that on that wiki page is >reported as working. >Are you using a Vodafone SIM? An old Omnitel SIM, that is now run by Vodafone after they bought Omnitel. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
Hi there! On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:08:11 +0100, Nicola Mfb wrote: > 2009/3/16 Enrico Zini > >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 11:58:51PM +0100, Nicola Mfb wrote: >> >> >I'm experiencing the same here. >> >May you post vendor/model of your SD card and the GSM operator? >> >> Exactly this one: >> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards/SD-C02G >> >> It turns out that the problem is well known, not solved, but with a few >> work-arounds. Given the cost of microSD cards nowadays, it's probably >> cheaper to buy a different one than it is to waste time in testing the >> work-arounds. >> > > I have problems with a Kingstone SDC4/8GB, that on that wiki page is > reported as working. > Are you using a Vodafone SIM? FWIW, I had problems with the same model, in 4GB size (SDC4/4GB, with 311C3-001.A00LF written on it) and a Swisscom SIM. It seems that as reported at [1] the I/O errors are still present. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards In my case, the Debian install.sh script failed two times: - the first it stopped with the following error = P: Unpacking package bash P: Unpacking package bsdutils P: Unpacking package libattr1 P: Unpacking package libacl1 P: Unpacking package libselinux1 P: Unpacking package coreutils E: Internal error: install = dmesg showed the real problem: = [ 467.285000] pcf50633 0-0073: Masking IRQ 6 [ 467.32] pcf50633 0-0073: Unmasking IRQ 6 [ 552.08] mmcblk0: p1 p2 [ 556.30] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 556.30] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 556.31] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 556.31] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [ 556.31] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [ 556.32] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 556.32] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 556.32] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 556.71] FAT: invalid media value (0xbf) [ 556.715000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 556.725000] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 556.73] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [ 556.73] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [ 556.735000] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 556.74] FAT: invalid media value (0xbf) [ 556.745000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 557.27] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 557.27] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 557.275000] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 557.28] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [ 557.28] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [ 557.285000] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 557.29] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 557.29] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 657.82] kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds [ 657.83] EXT3 FS on mmcblk0p2, internal journal [ 657.835000] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. [ 1351.10] journal_bmap: journal block not found at offset 5138 on mmcblk0p2 [ 1351.10] Aborting journal on device mmcblk0p2. [ 1351.72] journal commit I/O error [ 1351.725000] ext3_abort called. [ 1351.725000] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext3_journal_start_sb: Detected aborted journal [ 1351.725000] Remounting filesystem read-only = - the second time the error was different = Selecting previously deselected package libxau6. Unpacking libxau6 (from .../libxau6_1%3a1.0.4-2_armel.deb) ... Selecting previously deselected package libxdmcp6. Unpacking libxdmcp6 (from .../libxdmcp6_1%3a1.0.2-3_armel.deb) ... dpkg-deb: `/var/cache/apt/archives/libxcb1_1.2-1_armel.deb' is not a debian format archive dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libxcb1_1.2-1_armel.deb (--unpack): subprocess dpkg-deb --control returned error exit status 2 Selecting previously deselected package libx11-data. Unpacking libx11-data (from .../libx11-data_2%3a1.2-1_all.deb) ... Selecting previously deselected package libx11-6. Unpacking libx11-6 (from .../libx11-6_2%3a1.2-1_armel.deb) ... Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/libxcb1_1.2-1_armel.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Command exited with non-zero status 100 = However, this time dmesg was useless: = [ 353.28] jbt6k74 spi2.0: jbt6k74 powerdown [ 460.295000] mmcblk0: p1 p2 [ 463.43] kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds [ 463.43] EXT3-fs warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended [ 463.44] EXT3 FS on m
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:04:39PM +0100, Luca Capello wrote: > Note that I checked the very same microSDHC on my laptop with `badblocks > -w`, without finding any error. Thus, it seems the problem relies on > the Openmoko GTA02 itself. Yes, somehow in connection with having a SIM card in the phone. > FWIW, restarting the installation on the 512MB SanDisk microSD that I > received with my FR did not show any error at all, nor the other 4GB > SanDisk I bought (and which IIRC was double in price WRT the Kingston > one, for the very same size). > I will just stop using the Kingston microSDHC :-( That is what I did: I now bought a 8G microSDHC from SanDisk and it seems to work. I have no idea whether this is a bug in Kingston's SD cards or in the kernel or in the Glamo, but for 15€, and with so many broken things to look into, it was not worth the time to investigate. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
Hi Nicola! Please keep the smartphones-userland@ mailing list cc:ed, since this discussion started there. If you do so, no need to cc: me, I read the list. On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:02:16 +0100, Nicola Mfb wrote: > 2009/3/23 Luca Capello >> FWIW, I had problems with the same model, in 4GB size (SDC4/4GB, with >> 311C3-001.A00LF written on it) and a Swisscom SIM. It seems that as >> reported at [1] the I/O errors are still present. [...] > May you retry debian installation again booting from a distro with gsm/stuff > disabled at boot time repartitioning your sd? > I'm quite sure that the problem is caused by GSM interference. I am sorry to confirm the problem I had the first time even with everything FSO-related switched down and no SIM card in the phone. I firstly booted my FR on FSO-MS5.1 and then killed everything FSO-related through /etc/init.d/* scripts: xserver-nodm, frameworkd, fso-gpsd, fso-monitord, bluetooth. gsm0710muxd is not running, thus AFAIK GSM stuff are disabled. I tested two times, again with different results: - first time = P: Unpacking package debianutils P: Unpacking package bash P: Unpacking package bsdutils P: Unpacking package libattr1 P: Unpacking package libacl1 E: Internal error: install Command exited with non-zero status 1 = dmesg's output: = [ 4586.75] g_ether gadget: full speed config #1: CDC Ethernet (ECM) [ 4589.165000] pcf50633 0-0073: usb curlim to 500 mA [ 4608.44] modem wakeup interrupt [ 4618.015000] fbcon_event_notify action=12, data=c7e25dac [ 4618.015000] jbt6k74 spi2.0: jbt6k74 unblank [ 4618.045000] fbcon_event_notify action=9, data=c7e25de8 [ 4618.045000] jbt6k74 spi2.0: jbt6k74 unblank [ 4716.115000] mmcblk0: p1 p2 [ 4718.635000] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 4718.635000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4718.64] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4718.645000] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [ 4718.645000] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [ 4718.65] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4718.66] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 4718.66] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4718.90] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 4718.90] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 4718.91] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 4718.91] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [ 4718.91] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [ 4718.915000] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 4718.925000] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 4718.925000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [ 4719.175000] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 4719.175000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4719.18] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4719.185000] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [ 4719.185000] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [ 4719.19] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4719.195000] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [ 4719.195000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [ 4795.46] kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds [ 4795.47] EXT3 FS on mmcblk0p2, internal journal [ 4795.47] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. [ 5193.50] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 5193.50] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=2931283240, limit=7828160 [ 5193.50] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 5193.50] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=4157619384, limit=7828160 [ 5193.50] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 5193.50] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=3991240616, limit=7828160 [ 5193.50] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 5193.50] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=2287066480, limit=7828160 [ 5193.50] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 5193.50] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=1424522728, limit=7828160 [ 5193.50] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 5193.50] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=2411640032, limit=7828160 [ 5193.50] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 5193.50] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=1198146992, limit=7828160 [ 5193.53] Aborting journal on device mmcblk0p2. [ 5193.76] journal commit I/O error [ 5193.76] ext3_abort called. [ 5193.76] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext3_journal_start_sb: Detected aborted journal [ 5193.76] Remounting filesystem read-only [ 5218.095000] fbcon_event_notify action=12, data=c7831e04 [ 5218.095000] jbt6k74 spi2.0: jbt6k74 normal = - second time, after dd had filled with zeros the microSDHC = P: Unpacking package base-files P: Unpacking package debianutils P:
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
2009/3/27 Luca Capello > [...] I am sorry to confirm the problem I had the first time even with > everything FSO-related switched down and no SIM card in the phone. > > I firstly booted my FR on FSO-MS5.1 and then killed everything > FSO-related through /etc/init.d/* scripts: xserver-nodm, frameworkd, > fso-gpsd, fso-monitord, bluetooth. gsm0710muxd is not running, thus > AFAIK GSM stuff are disabled. > > I tested two times, again with different results: > I'm not sure if killing the daemon is sufficient, did you try disabling startup scripts and doing a complete poweroff/poweron cycle? I'm saying that becouse for about 3 weeks I used the phone with gentoo testing varius stuff but never emerged fso/zhone, and believe me emerge is write intensive!. During this period my sd card worked perfectly. One night I decided to do a tar gz over ssh of my deploy, so booted from SHR testing from another partition, and after some minutes the sd failed for the first time in 3 weeks. Every try failed before or after, so I booted from the flash where I had an old 2008.12 with X disabled *at startup* (so no qtopia, no fso etc.) and all worked fine again. P.s. on gentoo I used the same kernel from shr, now I'm using a quite experimental kernel from paroli om daily builds, but I'm not using phone related stuff yet. I think we should update the wiki page about SD, as that reports that Kingston SD are working well. Regards Nicola ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
Hi Nicola! On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:56:02 +0100, Nicola Mfb wrote: > I'm not sure if killing the daemon is sufficient, did you try disabling > startup scripts and doing a complete poweroff/poweron cycle? What should be the difference WRT killing the daemon? AFAIK frameworkd shutdowns all resources when quitting, thus GSM should be then disabled. Anyway, I did the test you requested: # cd /etc/rc5.d/ # mv S23bluetooth S29frameworkd S35fso-gpsd S35fso-monitord S35gpsd S99xserver-nodm ~/ The result does not change at all: - install.sh fails = P: Configuring package coreutils P: Configuring package lzma P: Configuring package ncurses-base P: Configuring package ncurses-bin P: Configuring package perl-base P: Configuring package tar P: Configuring package zlib1g P: Configuring package base-files E: Internal error: install Command exited with non-zero status 1 = - dmesg shows the usual error = [21474742.345000] mmcblk0: p1 p2 [21474744.435000] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [21474744.435000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474744.44] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474744.445000] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [21474744.445000] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [21474744.45] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474744.46] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [21474744.46] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474744.645000] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [21474744.645000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [21474744.655000] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [21474744.655000] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [21474744.655000] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [21474744.665000] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [21474744.67] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [21474744.67] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p2. [21474744.985000] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [21474744.985000] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474744.99] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474744.995000] EXT4-fs: Update your userspace programs to mount using ext4 [21474744.995000] EXT4-fs: ext4dev backwards compatibility will go away by 2.6.31 [21474745.00] VFS: Can't find ext4 filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474745.01] FAT: bogus number of reserved sectors [21474745.01] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev mmcblk0p1. [21474831.305000] kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds [21474831.32] EXT3 FS on mmcblk0p2, internal journal [21474831.32] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. [ 18.91] JFFS2 warning: (1800) jffs2_sum_write_data: Summary too big (-32 data, -1750 pad) in eraseblock at 07d2 [ 300.005000] fbcon_event_notify action=12, data=c7831e04 [ 300.005000] jbt6k74 spi2.0: jbt6k74 normal [ 834.30] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 834.30] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=268959848, limit=7828160 [ 834.30] attempt to access beyond end of device [ 834.30] mmcblk0p2: rw=1, want=269516712, limit=7828160 [ 834.98] Aborting journal on device mmcblk0p2. [ 835.20] journal commit I/O error [ 835.205000] ext3_abort called. [ 835.205000] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext3_journal_start_sb: Detected aborted journal [ 835.205000] Remounting filesystem read-only = > I'm saying that becouse for about 3 weeks I used the phone with gentoo > testing varius stuff but never emerged fso/zhone, and believe me emerge is > write intensive!. During this period my sd card worked perfectly. One night > I decided to do a tar gz over ssh of my deploy, so booted from SHR testing > from another partition, and after some minutes the sd failed for the first > time in 3 weeks. Every try failed before or after, so I booted from the > flash where I had an old 2008.12 with X disabled *at startup* (so no qtopia, > no fso etc.) and all worked fine again. Disclaimer: I do not know how qtopia works, nor I have any intention to check it. Just to be clear: X has nothing to do with GSM stuff. If you use an FSO-based distribution, simply stopping frameworkd should stop any access to GSM. This is obviously true if you do not access the GSM layer directly, otherwise ogsmd should be disabled. > I think we should update the wiki page about SD, as that reports that > Kingston SD are working well. Do whatever you like, but I strongly disagree: 3 out of 4 people experienced problems with this specific Kingston microSDHC card. The probability that the three microSDHC cards failing are all fault is really low, so I think that GTA02 has problems with this specific microSDHC card. Maybe the
Re: SD fails spectacularly and unpredictably when a SIM card is used
2009/3/31 Luca Capello > Hi Nicola! > [...] > What should be the difference WRT killing the daemon? AFAIK frameworkd > shutdowns all resources when quitting, thus GSM should be then disabled. Hi Luca! that was only a step to be sure that GSM did not remain On for some obscure reason, to be paranoid I did all my test removing gsm stuff from init startup, powering off the device and removing/replacing battery :) Anyway, I did the test you requested: > > # cd /etc/rc5.d/ > # mv S23bluetooth S29frameworkd S35fso-gpsd S35fso-monitord S35gpsd > S99xserver-nodm ~/ > > The result does not change at all: > [...] > Just to be clear: X has nothing to do with GSM stuff. If you use an > FSO-based distribution, simply stopping frameworkd should stop any > access to GSM. This is obviously true if you do not access the GSM > layer directly, otherwise ogsmd should be disabled. Qtopia access GSM layer directly and is started by X scripts, that's the reason I removed it. I'm speaking about qtopia on x11 of 2008.12. > > I think we should update the wiki page about SD, as that reports that > > Kingston SD are working well. > > Do whatever you like, but I strongly disagree: 3 out of 4 people > experienced problems with this specific Kingston microSDHC card. The > probability that the three microSDHC cards failing are all fault is > really low, so I think that GTA02 has problems with this specific > microSDHC card. Sorry, I agree with you, but my English is not always clear! I mean We should update the wiki page as *that page* reports Kingston SD are working well! > Maybe the problem will disappear with the tricks at > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards/SD-C02G > > > BTW, as it is clear from all my tests, I would go further and say that > the problem is not GSM-dependent, i.e. it does not matter if you have or > not a SIM card in the phone. I'm going to buy a new SD card in the meaning too, hoping it will work fine even at low GSM coverage, it's from setpember 2008 I own a freerunner and for one or other reason I cannot yet use it as my daily phone! Nicola ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list Smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland
