Re[6]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Pete McNeil]

On Friday, February 24, 2006, 10:31:25 AM, Goran wrote:

GJ> Hi,

GJ> I just got my service up and running using Matt's post 

GJ> http://www.mail-archive.com/sniffer@sortmonster.com/msg00169.html

GJ> It was simple especially since I already the resource kit installed.

GJ> Now I know that this I supposed to work to get the persistent instance
GJ> to load the new rulebase after a download.

GJ> REM Load new rulebase file.
GJ> %LicenseID%.exe reload


GJ> But is there any way to query the service and ask it to tell you when
GJ> was the last time the rulebase was loaded? Or what version of the
GJ> rulebase it is using?

By default, the persistent instance will reload the rulebase about
once every 10 minutes.

The reload command creates a semaphore file in the workspace and waits
for it to disappear. When the persistent instance has complied it will
delete the file. Therefore, the command " .exe reload "
will generally not return until the rulebase has been reloaded.

In some cases, due to a timing function bug, the persistent instance
may not respond to the reload or other semaphores... however, it does
still reload itself every 10 minutes or so. A sure way of reloading
the rulebase if you need to force it and you suspect something isn't
quite right is to restart the persistent instance.

GJ> When running in peer mode this question does not
GJ> arise since the instances read the file off disk so there is no problem.
GJ> With the persistent instance this is not the case and I would like to
GJ> know that it really is using the newest rulebase.

Just to clarify a bit... in peer-server mode, a server-peer will load
the rulebase, process some number of messages including it's own, and
then return. So, reloads are frequent, but not guaranteed.
Client-peers do not load the rulebase.

The persistent instance processes many more messages than a
server-peer and then reloads after it drops. Otherwise it is very much
the same as an ordinary peer instance.

As a rule, unless something is broken then you can be sure the new
rulebase is running within about 10 minutes (by default) of when it
appears in the workspace.

Hope this helps,

_M

PS: I'm working on adding some of the version 3 features to version 2
for testing and tuning on our way to a full version 3 engine. Soon I
will be coming out with incremental version 2 releases on our way to
3. I will be making instrumentation features a priority since they
will be helpful while tuning and (hopefully not) debugging the new
prototoypes.


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RE: Re[4]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Colbeck, Andrew]

Goran,

When you issue a reload you can tell that the new rulebase is being used
because the *.svr file's date and time will change to the current time.

Andrew 8)

  

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Goran Jovanovic
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:31 AM
> To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> Subject: RE: Re[4]: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just got my service up and running using Matt's post 
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/sniffer@sortmonster.com/msg00169.html
> 
> It was simple especially since I already the resource kit installed.
> 
> Now I know that this I supposed to work to get the persistent 
> instance to load the new rulebase after a download.
> 
> REM Load new rulebase file.
> %LicenseID%.exe reload
> 
> 
> But is there any way to query the service and ask it to tell 
> you when was the last time the rulebase was loaded? Or what 
> version of the rulebase it is using? When running in peer 
> mode this question does not arise since the instances read 
> the file off disk so there is no problem.
> With the persistent instance this is not the case and I would 
> like to know that it really is using the newest rulebase.
> 
> Goran Jovanovic
> Omega Network Solutions
> 
>  
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Behalf Of Pete McNeil
> > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:11 PM
> > To: Rick Robeson
> > Subject: Re[4]: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> > 
> > On Thursday, February 23, 2006, 1:22:53 PM, Rick wrote:
> > 
> > RR> I thought you had to run this as a service?
> > 
> > RR> Rick Robeson
> > RR> getlocalnews.com
> > RR> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > Strictly speaking you do not have to run it as a service, but it is 
> > more convenient to do so. If you run it from the command 
> line then you 
> > would need to remain logged in.
> > 
> > Running the persistent instance from the command line is convenient 
> > for testing, but it is much better to run it as a service in a 
> > production environment - that way it starts and stops with 
> the other 
> > services as expected, doesn't require any account to be logged in, 
> > etc...
> > 
> > _M
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For
> information
> > and (un)subscription instructions go to 
> > http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html
> 
> 
> This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For 
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> 


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RE: Re[4]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Goran Jovanovic]

Hi,

I just got my service up and running using Matt's post 

http://www.mail-archive.com/sniffer@sortmonster.com/msg00169.html

It was simple especially since I already the resource kit installed.

Now I know that this I supposed to work to get the persistent instance
to load the new rulebase after a download.

REM Load new rulebase file.
%LicenseID%.exe reload


But is there any way to query the service and ask it to tell you when
was the last time the rulebase was loaded? Or what version of the
rulebase it is using? When running in peer mode this question does not
arise since the instances read the file off disk so there is no problem.
With the persistent instance this is not the case and I would like to
know that it really is using the newest rulebase.

Goran Jovanovic
Omega Network Solutions

 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Pete McNeil
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:11 PM
> To: Rick Robeson
> Subject: Re[4]: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> 
> On Thursday, February 23, 2006, 1:22:53 PM, Rick wrote:
> 
> RR> I thought you had to run this as a service?
> 
> RR> Rick Robeson
> RR> getlocalnews.com
> RR> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Strictly speaking you do not have to run it as a service, but it is
> more convenient to do so. If you run it from the command line then you
> would need to remain logged in.
> 
> Running the persistent instance from the command line is convenient
> for testing, but it is much better to run it as a service in a
> production environment - that way it starts and stops with the other
> services as expected, doesn't require any account to be logged in,
> etc...
> 
> _M
> 
> 
> 
> This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For
information
> and (un)subscription instructions go to
> http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html


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Re[4]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Pete McNeil]

On Thursday, February 23, 2006, 1:22:53 PM, Rick wrote:

RR> I thought you had to run this as a service?

RR> Rick Robeson
RR> getlocalnews.com
RR> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Strictly speaking you do not have to run it as a service, but it is
more convenient to do so. If you run it from the command line then you
would need to remain logged in.

Running the persistent instance from the command line is convenient
for testing, but it is much better to run it as a service in a
production environment - that way it starts and stops with the other
services as expected, doesn't require any account to be logged in,
etc...

_M



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RE: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Colbeck, Andrew]

Goran, actually I was one of the few cases where going to the persistent
sniffer was detrimental.

The cause was lack of hardware.  My server was already running at 100%
cpu and with busy disks all too much, and I thought that going to
persistent mode would lighten the load enough to make more room for
Declude.  Instead, I saw timeouts that showed Declude waited it's
maximum time without Message Sniffer returning.

It was actually the other way around, though.  I concluded that 1)
Declude logging in debug mode shows that Declude boosts it's CPU
priority, and that this starved out Sniffer.  2) that my cpu problems
masked my seriously underperforming SCSI2 mirror.

The right honourable R. Scott Perry heeded my request to modify the
Declude log technique (old technique: write to disk every line as soon
as it can, which led to busy disks, interleaved logs per message, and
screwed up overlapping log lines; new technique: batch all log lines
until processing is done, then write all of them at one go) and at the
same time brought in "shortcircuit grammar" like SKIPIFWEIGHT.

I also clued in that I should be rotating my Message Sniffer log at
least daily, and ideally to upload them to SortMonster/ARM to feed back
into the system.

With all of those changes, my disk time quieted down enough and my
extensive Declude filters quieted down enough that Message Sniffer ran
*great* in the persistent mode, and I ran in that configuration long
enough to upgrade the hardware at my convenience.

By all means, try it.

All it takes to test it is launching as Pete mentioned in this thread.

You can always implement the srvany.exe technique or FireDaemon later.
I use FireDaemon.

To save yourself some typing and remembering, you can use the sample
batch files that Message Sniffer includes, e.g. send-start.cmd but
remember to edit the .exe file they reference so that is the same name
as your licenceid.exe file.

The observed behaviour of a well-functioning Message Sniffer is that in
Task Manager, you will see one licenceid.exe that uses small bursts of
CPU time, and then zero or more other licenceid.exe which come and go
(the PID column changes).

Andrew 8)


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Goran Jovanovic
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:47 AM
> To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> Subject: RE: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> So when you went to persistent it lowered the stress on your 
> already stressed hardware?
> 
> And I see that Pete has responded as I write this with: "Use it"
> 
> Well I will set it up and see how my system reacts.
> 
> Goran Jovanovic
> Omega Network Solutions
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Behalf Of Colbeck, Andrew
> > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:39 AM
> > To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> > Subject: RE: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> > 
> > Goran, I'd be interested in Pete's technical answer, too.
> > 
> > The practical answer is that you should always go with the 
> persistent 
> > instance of Message Sniffer.  From reading Pete's previous 
> screeds and 
> > monitoring the list here in the last year and from having my own 
> > troubles, it's pretty clear to me that only marginal cases 
> suffer with 
> > the persistent mode (and I was one of them).
> > 
> > Pete's answer on volumes won't answer what are the marginal 
> cases, it 
> > just doesn't fit your question.  For me, it was simple lack of
> hardware,
> > but I was *right* on the edge.
> > 
> > Andrew 8)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Goran 
> Jovanovic
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:30 AM
> > > To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> > > Subject: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Is there any good rule of thumb, in terms of messages 
> processed per 
> > > minute/hour/day when you should move to a persistent instance of 
> > > Sniffer?
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > >
> > > Goran Jovanovic
> > > Omega Network Solutions
> > >
> > >
> > > This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For 
> > > information and (un)subscription instructions go to 
> > > http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For
> information
> > and (un)subscription instructions go to 
> > http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html
> 
> 
> This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For 
> information and (un)subscription instructions go to 
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> 


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Re[4]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Pete McNeil]

On Thursday, February 23, 2006, 12:59:24 PM, Goran wrote:

GJ> Pete,

>> To run in persistent mode, simply launch an instance of SNF from the
>> command line with the word "persistent" in place of the file to scan.
>> 
>> .exe  persistent
>> 

GJ> I am calling Sniffer from Declude. Could I just later my statement in my
GJ> config file to include persistent? That way the first time it is called
GJ> that instance will go persistent and all the rest will end up talking to
GJ> it?

No. That will not work. You need the persistent instance to run and
stay running while the other instances (called from Declude) come and
go.

GJ> Regardless of how the persistent instance is started should I have the
GJ> persistent keyword on the line that is called from Declude?

You should not have any instance in Declude defined with the
persistent command line option. Don't do this.

_M


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RE: Re[2]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Jeff Robertson]

Running as a service is the way to go.  The steps I followed were taken
directly from Matt's post in the archives and updated slightly for Windows
2003.  I'm mostly just reposting his info here, but I like having
instructions all together.

1) Download & install the Windows 2003 Resource Kit. 
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9d467a69-57ff-4ae7-
96ee-b18c4790cffd&displaylang=en

2) Open a command prompt (Click on the Start Button, select Run, and type
CMD)

3)Enter the following commands (customize for the paths of the
executables)

C:\> cd Program Files\Windows Resource Kits\Tools
C:\> Instsrv Sniffer "C:\Program Files\Windows Resource
Kits\Tools\SRVANY.exe"

4) Open up the Registry Editor (Click on the Start Button, select Run, and
type REGEDIT)

5) Locate the following key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Sniffer

6) From the Edit menu, select New, select Key, and name the new key
"Parameters"

7) Highlight the Parameters key

8) From the Edit menu, select New, select String Value, and name the new
value "Application"

9) From the Edit menu, select Modify, and type in the full path name and
application name, including the drive letter and file extension (don't use
quotes). You must customize the path, executable name and authentication
code.

Example: 
C:\IMail\Declude\Sniffer\[yourlicx].exe [authenticationxx] persistent

   [yourlicx] = your license ID
   [authenticationxx] = your authentication string

10) Open the Services MMC

11) Start the Sniffer service

12) Set the Sniffer service to Automatic


Matt's original post:
http://www.mail-archive.com/sniffer@sortmonster.com/msg00169.html


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Rick Robeson
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:23 PM
> To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> 
> I thought you had to run this as a service?
> 
> Rick Robeson
> getlocalnews.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Goran Jovanovic
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:59 AM
> To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> 
> 
> Pete,
> 
> > To run in persistent mode, simply launch an instance of SNF from the
> > command line with the word "persistent" in place of the file to scan.
> >
> > .exe  persistent
> >
> 
> I am calling Sniffer from Declude. Could I just later my statement in my
> config file to include persistent? That way the first time it is called
> that instance will go persistent and all the rest will end up talking to
> it?
> 
> Regardless of how the persistent instance is started should I have the
> persistent keyword on the line that is called from Declude?
> 
> Goran Jovanovic





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RE: Re[2]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Rick Robeson]

I thought you had to run this as a service?

Rick Robeson
getlocalnews.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Goran Jovanovic
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:59 AM
To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [sniffer] When to go persistent


Pete,

> To run in persistent mode, simply launch an instance of SNF from the
> command line with the word "persistent" in place of the file to scan.
>
> .exe  persistent
>

I am calling Sniffer from Declude. Could I just later my statement in my
config file to include persistent? That way the first time it is called
that instance will go persistent and all the rest will end up talking to
it?

Regardless of how the persistent instance is started should I have the
persistent keyword on the line that is called from Declude?

Goran Jovanovic



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(un)subscription instructions go to
http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html



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RE: Re[2]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Goran Jovanovic]

Pete,

> To run in persistent mode, simply launch an instance of SNF from the
> command line with the word "persistent" in place of the file to scan.
> 
> .exe  persistent
> 

I am calling Sniffer from Declude. Could I just later my statement in my
config file to include persistent? That way the first time it is called
that instance will go persistent and all the rest will end up talking to
it?

Regardless of how the persistent instance is started should I have the
persistent keyword on the line that is called from Declude?

Goran Jovanovic



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(un)subscription instructions go to 
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Re[2]: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Pete McNeil]

On Thursday, February 23, 2006, 11:53:51 AM, LLC wrote:

JISL> I'm investigating the persistant mode and read the info on the web site.
JISL> Can't make heads or tails of it.

JISL> How do enable persistant mode on a Windows 2003 Server?  The web site 
speaks
JISL> hypothetically, but the information is not practical.

>>From the message at 
JISL> http://www.mail-archive.com/sniffer@sortmonster.com/msg00165.html it would
JISL> seem that you need an external utility to run Sniffer in persistant mode,
JISL> but the link to
JISL> http://www.judoscript.com/goodies/RunExeSvc/runexesvc.html 
JISL> is no longer valid.

JISL> What exact steps are needed to run in persistant mode on Windows 2003 
JISL> Server?

Sorry about that... the Judoscript site comes and goes lately. (Maybe
permanently gone this time).

To run in persistent mode, simply launch an instance of SNF from the
command line with the word "persistent" in place of the file to scan.

.exe  persistent

The persistent instance will be recognized by all of the other
instances (those are launched by your email server usually - one per
message).

When a persistent instance is present it will keep the rulebase loaded
in memory and the other instances will coordinate with it to get their
messages scanned. This eliminates the work of reloading the rulebase
and can help to optimize the timing of the message scans to improve
throughput.

If the persistent instance fails or is stopped for any reason then the
SNF software returns to it's native peer-server mode.

There are a number of utilities out there (some free) that allow you
to run an executable as a service. RunExeSvc is the one I used. Many
have recommended FireDaemon:

http://www.firedaemon.com/

There is also a windows toolkit that will let you run programs as
services - it requires some hacking in the registry as I recall.

I can't provide specifics for these approaches at this time, but I
believe the windows toolkit method was described well in the sniffer@
list archives, and Firedaemon will have it's own process that is
likely to be simpler.

Hope this helps,

_M



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Re: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Joe / Internet Specialists, LLC]

I'm investigating the persistant mode and read the info on the web site. 
Can't make heads or tails of it.


How do enable persistant mode on a Windows 2003 Server?  The web site speaks 
hypothetically, but the information is not practical.


From the message at 
http://www.mail-archive.com/sniffer@sortmonster.com/msg00165.html it would 
seem that you need an external utility to run Sniffer in persistant mode, 
but the link to http://www.judoscript.com/goodies/RunExeSvc/runexesvc.html 
is no longer valid.


What exact steps are needed to run in persistant mode on Windows 2003 
Server?


Thanks,
Joe
- Original Message - 
From: "Pete McNeil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Goran Jovanovic" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [sniffer] When to go persistent



On Thursday, February 23, 2006, 11:30:02 AM, Goran wrote:

GJ> Hi,

GJ> Is there any good rule of thumb, in terms of messages processed per
GJ> minute/hour/day when you should move to a persistent instance of
GJ> Sniffer?

I would suggest using the persistent mode unless you have a reason not
to. (In very rare cases it may not perform as well as peer-server
mode.)

_M


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and (un)subscription instructions go to 
http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html






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RE: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Goran Jovanovic]

Andrew,

So when you went to persistent it lowered the stress on your already
stressed hardware?

And I see that Pete has responded as I write this with: "Use it"

Well I will set it up and see how my system reacts.

Goran Jovanovic
Omega Network Solutions

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Colbeck, Andrew
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:39 AM
> To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> Subject: RE: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> 
> Goran, I'd be interested in Pete's technical answer, too.
> 
> The practical answer is that you should always go with the persistent
> instance of Message Sniffer.  From reading Pete's previous screeds and
> monitoring the list here in the last year and from having my own
> troubles, it's pretty clear to me that only marginal cases suffer with
> the persistent mode (and I was one of them).
> 
> Pete's answer on volumes won't answer what are the marginal cases, it
> just doesn't fit your question.  For me, it was simple lack of
hardware,
> but I was *right* on the edge.
> 
> Andrew 8)
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Goran Jovanovic
> > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:30 AM
> > To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> > Subject: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is there any good rule of thumb, in terms of messages
> > processed per minute/hour/day when you should move to a
> > persistent instance of Sniffer?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Goran Jovanovic
> > Omega Network Solutions
> >
> >
> > This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For
> > information and (un)subscription instructions go to
> > http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html
> >
> 
> 
> This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For
information
> and (un)subscription instructions go to
> http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html


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Re: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Pete McNeil]

On Thursday, February 23, 2006, 11:30:02 AM, Goran wrote:

GJ> Hi,

GJ> Is there any good rule of thumb, in terms of messages processed per
GJ> minute/hour/day when you should move to a persistent instance of
GJ> Sniffer?

I would suggest using the persistent mode unless you have a reason not
to. (In very rare cases it may not perform as well as peer-server
mode.)

_M


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RE: [sniffer] When to go persistent

[Colbeck, Andrew]

Goran, I'd be interested in Pete's technical answer, too.

The practical answer is that you should always go with the persistent
instance of Message Sniffer.  From reading Pete's previous screeds and
monitoring the list here in the last year and from having my own
troubles, it's pretty clear to me that only marginal cases suffer with
the persistent mode (and I was one of them).

Pete's answer on volumes won't answer what are the marginal cases, it
just doesn't fit your question.  For me, it was simple lack of hardware,
but I was *right* on the edge.

Andrew 8)



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Goran Jovanovic
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:30 AM
> To: sniffer@SortMonster.com
> Subject: [sniffer] When to go persistent
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any good rule of thumb, in terms of messages 
> processed per minute/hour/day when you should move to a 
> persistent instance of Sniffer?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Goran Jovanovic
> Omega Network Solutions
> 
> 
> This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For 
> information and (un)subscription instructions go to 
> http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html
> 


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[sniffer] When to go persistent

[Goran Jovanovic]

Hi,

Is there any good rule of thumb, in terms of messages processed per
minute/hour/day when you should move to a persistent instance of
Sniffer?

Thank you

Goran Jovanovic
Omega Network Solutions


This E-Mail came from the Message Sniffer mailing list. For information and 
(un)subscription instructions go to 
http://www.sortmonster.com/MessageSniffer/Help/Help.html