RE: General Question RPC vs. Messaging

[Anne Thomas Manes]

Werner,

If you're just starting out with SOAP, I suggest you start with a SOAP
implementation that supports WSDL -- for example Apache Axis. See
http://xml.apache.org/axis. It's the follow-on project to Apache SOAP.

More and more, SOAP-RPC is becoming out of favor. WS-I has decided that SOAP
Encoding is a key source of interoperability issues, and SOAP Encoding is
disallowed by the WS-I Basic Profile. Since most SOAP implementations always
use SOAP Encoding with the RPC style, SOAP-RPC has become a "bad" thing.

>From the SOAP message point of view, there's really very little difference
between SOAP RPC style and SOAP document style. The key difference is SOAP
encoding versus literal encoding. From a message perspective, the only
difference is whether or not you use a methodname container for your
payload. For example, you can pass a purchase order as a document or as a
parameter in a method called placeOrder. It's your choice:

Document style:
  

  ...

  

RPC style:
  

  
...
  

  

Per the specification, both types of messages can be encoded using a XML
Schema or using the SOAP Encoding data model. In practice, many SOAP
implementations only support RPC style with SOAP Encoding and Document style
with literal encoding.

A WSDL description provides the same information about the format of the
message whether you're using RPC or document style. So a WSDL compiler can
just as easily generate a client stub for document style as it can for RPC
style. The Microsoft implementations (.NET and MS SOAP Toolkit) generate
document style by default. Many of the Java-based SOAP implementations are
switching over to document style by default, also.

Anne

> -Original Message-
> From: Werner Jorling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 5:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: General Question RPC vs. Messaging
>
>
> (Sorry, first posted as a reply)
>
> Hello,
>
> studying the SOAP-Messaging samples from the  the book 'Java and
> SOAP' (Robert
> Englander, O'Reilly) and from apache-soap I'm confused about the
> difference
> between SOAP-RPC and SOAP-Messaging.
>
> There are SOAP-Messaging samples, where services are implemented with the
> signiture
>
> public void serviceMethod(
> Envelope env,
> SOAPContext reqCtx,
> SOAPContext resCtx
> )
>
> Services of this kind are usually sent to client messages
> containing Envlopes
> to an URL like http//host:/soap/servlet/messagerouter.
>
> On the other side there are SOAP-Messaging-service samples not
> distinguishable
> from SOAP-RPC-style services . Only the service-tag in the
> deployment-descriptor contains the type="message"-attribute.
>
> Moreover this services are invoked by a Call in a SOAP-RPC like
> manner, with a
> URL like http://host:/soap/servlet/rpcrouter.
>
> Consequently I do not really understand the difference between
> SOAP-RPC and
> SOAP-Messaging.
>
> Regards
>
> Werner
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>


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General Question RPC vs. Messaging

[Werner Jörling]

(Sorry, first posted as a reply)

Hello,

studying the SOAP-Messaging samples from the  the book 'Java and SOAP' (Robert 
Englander, O'Reilly) and from apache-soap I'm confused about the difference 
between SOAP-RPC and SOAP-Messaging.

There are SOAP-Messaging samples, where services are implemented with the 
signiture

public void serviceMethod(
Envelope env, 
SOAPContext reqCtx, 
SOAPContext resCtx
)

Services of this kind are usually sent to client messages containing Envlopes 
to an URL like http//host:/soap/servlet/messagerouter.

On the other side there are SOAP-Messaging-service samples not distinguishable 
from SOAP-RPC-style services . Only the service-tag in the 
deployment-descriptor contains the type="message"-attribute.

Moreover this services are invoked by a Call in a SOAP-RPC like manner, with a 
URL like http://host:/soap/servlet/rpcrouter.

Consequently I do not really understand the difference between SOAP-RPC and 
SOAP-Messaging.

Regards

Werner
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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General Question RPC vs. Messaging

[Werner Jörling]

Hello,

studying the SOAP-Messaging samples from the  the book 'Java and SOAP' (Robert 
Englander, O'Reilly) and from apache-soap I'm confused about the difference 
between SOAP-RPC and SOAP-Messaging.

There are SOAP-Messaging samples, where services are implemented with the 
signiture

public void serviceMethod(
Envelope env, 
SOAPContext reqCtx, 
SOAPContext resCtx
)

Services of this kind are usually sent to client messages containing Envlopes 
to an URL like http//host:/soap/servlet/messagerouter.

On the other side there are SOAP-Messaging-service samples not distinguishable 
from SOAP-RPC-style services . Only the service-tag in the 
deployment-descriptor contains the type="message"-attribute.

Moreover this services are invoked by a Call in a SOAP-RPC like manner, with a 
URL like http://host:/soap/servlet/rpcrouter.

Consequently I do not really understand the difference between SOAP-RPC and 
SOAP-Messaging.

Regards

Werner
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: RPC Vs Messaging

[Anne Thomas Manes]

Nice concise description, Gary, but I should point out that the RPC
programming model and the encoding system are orthogonal. You can use
literal with RPC, and you can use encoded with Document.

Anne

> -Original Message-
> From: Gary Feldman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:50 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RPC Vs Messaging
>
>
> > From: Krishnamurthy, Ramanathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:43 PM
> >
> > Is this distinction necessary ? Isn't messaging a special case of RPC.
>
> The terminology itself is confusing.  I'm not sure where this
> usage started,
> but
> I think it's wrong.  And I think you have it backwards (RPC is the special
> case).
>
> Here's my take:
>
> SOAP defines a message protocol.  Thus everything is a message, and a SOAP
> message is defined by the standard as being an XML document comprised of a
> SOAP envelope containing an optional header and required body.
>
> What some people call the message model (including, in some sense, the
> Apache SOAP
> API) is also called document-style SOAP (e.g., the new O'Reilly
> book on SOAP
> by Snell,
> et al uses this term), though I think "generic" might also be a reasonable
> term.  In
> any event, all SOAP says is that the body must be an XML element named
> "body".
>
> The RPC model adds to this (and thus is a subset) by adding an encoding
> scheme (technically it's just one possible encoding scheme, but it seems
> certain to be the de
> facto standard) and a model that defines parameters, requests, and
> responses.  Thus, it really is a special case of the more general document
> model that happens to use one
> particular set of rules for the content of the body of the SOAP message.
>
> Just to confound things, there's nothing stopping you from building an RPC
> system using the Apache SOAP "Message" model.
>
> Gary
>
> 
>   Ready-to-Run Software, Inc.
>   The Industry's Leading Provider of
>   Cross-Platform and Porting Services
>  *
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gary Feldman
> fax  : 1-978-692-5401  Ready-to-Run Software, Inc.
> voice: 1-978-251-5431  11 School Street
> www  : http://www.rtr.com  North Chelmsford, MA 01863
>  USA
>

RE: RPC Vs Messaging

[Gary Feldman]

> From: Krishnamurthy, Ramanathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:43 PM
>
> Is this distinction necessary ? Isn't messaging a special case of RPC.

The terminology itself is confusing.  I'm not sure where this usage started,
but
I think it's wrong.  And I think you have it backwards (RPC is the special
case).

Here's my take:

SOAP defines a message protocol.  Thus everything is a message, and a SOAP
message is defined by the standard as being an XML document comprised of a
SOAP envelope containing an optional header and required body.

What some people call the message model (including, in some sense, the
Apache SOAP
API) is also called document-style SOAP (e.g., the new O'Reilly book on SOAP
by Snell,
et al uses this term), though I think "generic" might also be a reasonable
term.  In
any event, all SOAP says is that the body must be an XML element named
"body".

The RPC model adds to this (and thus is a subset) by adding an encoding
scheme (technically it's just one possible encoding scheme, but it seems
certain to be the de
facto standard) and a model that defines parameters, requests, and
responses.  Thus, it really is a special case of the more general document
model that happens to use one
particular set of rules for the content of the body of the SOAP message.

Just to confound things, there's nothing stopping you from building an RPC
system using the Apache SOAP "Message" model.

Gary


  Ready-to-Run Software, Inc.
  The Industry's Leading Provider of
  Cross-Platform and Porting Services
 *
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gary Feldman
fax  : 1-978-692-5401  Ready-to-Run Software, Inc.
voice: 1-978-251-5431  11 School Street
www  : http://www.rtr.com  North Chelmsford, MA 01863
 USA

RE: RPC Vs Messaging

[Rebecca Dias]

Eric,

The IONA XMLBus implements JAXM and SOAP with Attachments and has been used
by Microsoft as the reference implementation for .NET interoperability.  The
next drop of the XMLBus Technology Preview (Preview of functionality that is
productized by IONA Orbix E2A platform) will be on XMLBus.com this monday.
It will have a complete implementation of JAXM v1.0.  The current shipping
version is based on a draft spec of JAXM.  We have used this implementation
for ebXML TRP v1.0 as well.

becky


-Original Message-
From: Dahnke, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:15 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: RPC Vs Messaging



We're using the JAXM package to generate SOAP Messages with code out of the
JAXM package. And I've been told one can (will be able to) use JAXM with
Axis.

Something like the following.

MessageFactory mf = MessageFactory.newInstance();
SOAPMessage msg = mf.createMessage();
SOAPPart sp = msg.getSOAPPart();
SOAPEnvelope envelope = sp.getEnvelope(true);
SOAPHeader hdr = envelope.getHeader();
SOAPBody bdy = envelope.getBody();
...
SOAPMessage reply = con.call(msg, urlEndpoint);

For our needs we haven't needed RPC over soap yet, and have just needed to
pass around SOAP messages w/ attachments. I'm sure the RPC side is equally
distinct, and SOAP seems very flexible. I'm always hearing people talking
about passing entire messages as Strings or doing this or that via messaging
and or rpc.

- HTH

-Original Message-
From: Krishnamurthy, Ramanathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:43 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RPC Vs Messaging


Is this distinction necessary ? Isn't messaging a special case of RPC.

I recently moved from SOAP_2_2 to Axis. And axis doesn't seem to
differentiate the two.

Thanks for any insight.

ram



Ramanathan Krishnamurthy
AP Engines, Inc.
Five Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA  01754

RE: RPC Vs Messaging

[Dahnke, Eric]

We're using the JAXM package to generate SOAP Messages with code out of the
JAXM package. And I've been told one can (will be able to) use JAXM with
Axis.

Something like the following.

MessageFactory mf = MessageFactory.newInstance();
SOAPMessage msg = mf.createMessage();
SOAPPart sp = msg.getSOAPPart();
SOAPEnvelope envelope = sp.getEnvelope(true);
SOAPHeader hdr = envelope.getHeader();
SOAPBody bdy = envelope.getBody();
...
SOAPMessage reply = con.call(msg, urlEndpoint);

For our needs we haven't needed RPC over soap yet, and have just needed to
pass around SOAP messages w/ attachments. I'm sure the RPC side is equally
distinct, and SOAP seems very flexible. I'm always hearing people talking
about passing entire messages as Strings or doing this or that via messaging
and or rpc.

- HTH

-Original Message-
From: Krishnamurthy, Ramanathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:43 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RPC Vs Messaging


Is this distinction necessary ? Isn't messaging a special case of RPC.

I recently moved from SOAP_2_2 to Axis. And axis doesn't seem to
differentiate the two.

Thanks for any insight.

ram



Ramanathan Krishnamurthy
AP Engines, Inc.
Five Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA  01754

RPC Vs Messaging

[Krishnamurthy, Ramanathan]

Is this distinction necessary ? Isn't messaging a special case of RPC.

I recently moved from SOAP_2_2 to Axis. And axis doesn't seem to
differentiate the two.

Thanks for any insight.

ram



Ramanathan Krishnamurthy
AP Engines, Inc.
Five Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA  01754